Conference yukon::christian_v7

    
    i hope no one takes this the wrong way; i'm not trying to be
    negative, but...
    
    times are tuff today.  many people don't like christians.
    even the government seems to be doing everything it can
    to attack christians.
    
    did anyone listen to focus on the family monday and tuesday
    this week.  the guests were pastors of churches in san francisco
    and colorado springs.  their churches and their families have
    been attacked by activists.  they have received death threats
    over the phone.  one had his house firebombed.  both had their
    services disrupted, one by people who came into the church under
    the guise of worshippers.  they played tapes of the attacks.  
    
    my question is, do we christians want all of our names in
    a single database accessible by who knows whom?  does anyone
    foresee a time when the state troopers will come and seek us
    out for whatever punishment?  would the jews in nazi germany
    in 1935 have willingly placed their names in such a database?
    
    is there really a new world order coming and does it exclude the
    free practice of our faith?
    
    just a question for thought or discussion.
    

    342.1 was moved from 341.2
    
    Please discuss here.
    
    Nancy
    co-mod Christian

    Jim,
    
    I saw the video and heard the taped audio of the incident in San
    Francisco, and as you have so vividly pointed out, much has not been
    reported by the press.  
    
    I did not hear the focus on the family broadcast :-(, but Jim Henderson
    did!!! :-)  Cue for Jim... but he's out shopping. :-)
    
    I mean cue for the other Jim, Jim. :-)
    
    Oh well rack 'em up!
    
    Nancy

Christians are IN FOR IT.

I believe that the persecution has started as is ramping up.

Interesting that Christian pro-life protesters get so much attention and
condemnation when they block abortion clinics, but violent anti-Christian
activitists get no attention when they desecrate churches and harass
worshippers.

Without going into excruciating detail, over the past couple of years I have
seen a flood of ominous signs that Christian oppression is increasing, from
the frightening court cases handled by the Rutherford institute, to oppression
of pro-lifers, to violent attacks against churches, to Clinton officials making
derogatory remarks about the Catholic Church and no one seems to mind, to
the increased calls for intolerance against cults (cults today, mainstream
churches tomorrow), to increased government interference between parents and
children (from forcibly removing children from homes for various offenses to
indoctrinating children into immorality and secular humanism in schools and
preventing the parents from doing anything bout it), to all sorts of stuff.

How about the international laws being passed by the U.N. to "protect" chil-
dren's rights, promote abortion and contraception, and push various liberal
social causes?  How about the World Bank which will refuse to lend any country
money that doesn't pass the laws it feels countries should pass in order to
"save the environment" and "save the earth" (like through, say, population
control -- abortion, contraception, and maybe in the future euthanasia?)

Oh, not to mention the bitter and violent hatred expressed towards Christians
on the Usenet newsgroups.  It is really amazing how much we are hated out there.
Don't dare post anything remotely endorsing religion on most newsgroups, or
you'll get a barrage of hate-filled flames in your mailbox.

Prepare, my friends.  It's coming.

      Hi,
    
        "All these things were given for examples and were given for
         our admonition unto whom the ends of the world are come."
    
        The magnitude of advancing light that hit Israel will be exceeded
        by the light that hits the last day Christian.  Traditional belief
        systems can be expected to be challenged to the core.  Faith will
        be the only sight for truth.  As this group drinks in the advanced
        light, fruit will be unbelievably apparent.  They are finally
        growing up unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of
        Christ.
    
        Those that refuse the light (for the basis of their belief system
        will be anything other than faith) will view God's people as "that
        hated sect."  Just a replay of Israel during the times of Christ
        and Acts.  Persecution will arise like never before; Israel and
        Rome will be the persecutor (professed Christianity that refused
        the advanced light and the world).  Ahab (the world) will be married 
        to Rahab (the false church which refused the light...the beast)
        and will seek to kill all Elijah's (a type of the translated ones).
    
        God's people will drink in more and more of the 'law' (Psalm 119...
        the righteoussness of Christ).  The spiritual cause and effect 
        of the commandment coming (increased revelation of God's 
        character), sin reviving (increased revelation of the sinfulness
        of sin...see for example Isaiah 6), and dying (increased resulting
        weighing of guilt) (Romans 7:9) will be the experience of the remnant.
    
        This experience will continue until they finally see the core sin
        of the principle of self exaltation - the crucifixion of God.  They
        will _feel_ to be that sinner and will undergo the repentence of
        the ages (Zech 12:10).  They will be smitten with the same sword
        that smote their Shephard, they will undergo the cross experience,
        but different than Christ's because they have a Forerunner who
        trod those steps before them.
    
        This group will be sealed - settled into the truth both
        spiritually and intellectually.  Nothing will shake them.  And it
        will be proven that when one knows God to a certain fulness and
        "is filled with all the fulness of God" (Eph 3), they will not 
        choose to sin.  It will be shown that God really can do exceedingly
        abundantly more than we can even fathom - He just needs to find a
        people willing to let them remove their unbelief.
    
        The controversy is over and Christ then comes quickly!!
    
                                                         Tony

    Re: Note 342.4 by KALI::EWANCO
    
>Oh, not to mention the bitter and violent hatred expressed towards Christians
>on the Usenet newsgroups.  It is really amazing how much we are hated out there.
>Don't dare post anything remotely endorsing religion on most newsgroups, or
>you'll get a barrage of hate-filled flames in your mailbox.
    
    I only frequent the australian religion newsgroup, and that hasn't got
    as bad as the american one yet... here's hoping...
    
    James

    Yes. The persecution is ramping up and it is even internal between
    those who have accepted such a liberal view of Christianity as to
    be virtually New Age, certainly new ideas of Christ, and those who
    try to prevent such actions.
    
    One thing that I've noticed is some terrible portrayals of both 
    Catholics [mostly] and other Christians in TV shows. Even when, quite
    recently, some shows have tried to have a pro-faith portrayal they end
    up doing it in a poor way. 
    
    A week ago I turned on the TV and saw about half of Picket Fence for
    the first time. A Priest and a Protestant minister were seriously
    contemplating if this woman who was medically a virgin yet bearing a
    child could be bearing Christ in His Second Coming. The IGNORANCE
    of this just outraged me and was so blasphemous! It was really either
    the ignorance or the artifice of the writers to promote their main
    theme, but it was nontheless outrageous. [The story was used to
    actually say something good about mankinds need for faith and to
    even imply a miracle, but it was poorly done.]
    
    More than a season ago Northern Exposure had several shows that were
    real attacks on Catholics and religious values. These included Chris
    having a lust for a monk; a priest who seemed to have an adopted
    'family' of redheaded girls of all ages, the eldest being sexually
    insatiable. In the primary scene the priest lifted what was obviously
    meant to be a beer bottle to his mouth while Ed the movie-maker was at
    the table with all the females and the priest told Ed that when he
    gets to Hollywood to make movies like "Boys Town" which show priests
    in better light. 
    
    The final episode, before forever giving up the show, had Chris
    figuring out a special way to bring the remains of a friend to their
    final rest. In this Chris appeared in a clever yet blasphemous scene
    of the Last Supper. The apostles were dressed in business clothes and
    smoking cigars. Chris was in the middle dressed like Christ and 
    anguishing over the meaning of life!! Some 50's Do-whop singers came
    on and sang a rock and roll song. Chris tried to give his friend a
    regular funeral and burial but could not cope with that - somehow it
    wasn't good enough for his friend. In the end, he hooked up the 
    casket to the catapult he had used in the previous season to fling
    a piano to its destruction and he flung the casket into the lake.
    To the partial credit of the cast the grimaces on their faces that were
    supposed to be smiles betrayed the fact that this act was really
    grotesque.
    
    Murphy Brown recently has a supposed "pro-faith" show, but most of the
    cast members just confessed either their confusions or emptiness
    concerning their faith and practices. Corky was the most direct 
    and outrightly positive about her faith, but it was greatly implied
    that she saw it as a social club and a place where you could win a 
    car raffle. Jim, who was a dedicated church-goer was forced to admit
    under questioning that his faith was empty and he was only going to
    church with hope that he might hear something that would give him
    hope....he had not received that yet.
    
    Almost an entire generation is growing up anti-religion, as Eric noted
    and without God there is plenty of space for the influences of Satan
    against Christians. We are in for a terrible time in the short run,
    but a glorious time for all eternity if we hold fast to our faith,
    testimony and witness to Christ!
    
    Mary  

RE:     <<< Note 342.3 by JULIET::MORALES_NA "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" >>>
     -< It's Alarming, I'm glad our Hope lies in Him and not this world! >-

>    I did not hear the focus on the family broadcast :-(, but Jim Henderson
>    did!!! :-)  Cue for Jim... but he's out shopping. :-)
    
>    I mean cue for the other Jim, Jim. :-)
    
    
   I didn't hear it, Markel did..I ordered a tape from FOTF




 Jim

    .9
    
    Oh... says the little-big-mouthed frog! :-)
    
        Markel... chalk up! :-)

    
    
    
    1.) A greater falling away will occur as the price for being a believer
    will become even greater ( job security )
    
    2.) Hollywood will step up its' smear campaign of christians.
    
    3.) The people will begin to look towrd the governemt even more for
    their needs.
    
    4.) This conference will no longer be allowed( many years from now).
    
    
    David

>        Markel... chalk up! :-)
    
    I heard the second night of the two-night broadcast (Mon and Tue of
    this week).  Like other's have said, it was pretty sobering.
    
    Re:  the pastor's home that was firebombed.  One thing that really
    stood out to me was a conversation he told that he had with his wife,
    who was suggesting that he "back off" on some of the matters.  She said
    something to the effect of "How would you like it if your son gets
    killed because of what you are standing for."  His reply was a stern
    (words to the effect of), "I'd rather have him die, knowing I had the
    courage to stand, than to live knowing that I had compromised what I
    believe."
    
    Mark L.

    .12
    
    My oldest son has said something to the same effect about his potential
    army draft.  He'd rather be imprisoned for not serving an antiChrist
    nation, then to fight.
    
    It takes courage... and I oftimes wonder if I'm ready for the battle. 
    Our faiths have not known oppression in this country in my lifetime,
    until now.  You couldn't have convined me that I'd see it in my 
    lifetime a short 10 years ago.
    
>    1.) A greater falling away will occur as the price for being a believer
>    will become even greater ( job security )
    
    This is *very* true.  Not sure I understand the job security comment
    though. :-)
    
>    2.) Hollywood will step up its' smear campaign of christians.
    
    Oh man this is TRUE TODAY!  That movie with Tom Cruz and Demi Moore
    really irked me big time, uh what wuz it called, "A Few Good Men". 
    They had Keifer Sutherland, the Seargent as a KJV Bible Believing
    maniac who ordered the killing of a soldier in the name of God and
    Discipline.  
    
>    3.) The people will begin to look towrd the governemt even more for
>    their needs.
    
    :-)  My Pastor has been preaching from the pulpit for at least the last
    10 years a country dependent upon its government for sustenance is
    not free.
    
>    4.) This conference will no longer be allowed( many years from now).
    
    I agree... however, I think it's around the corner, not many years from
    now.  Hope I'm wrong.
    
    
    Nancy

    ...and all, don't let the thought of persecution and suffering allow
    fear to rule in your heart.
    
    The simple fact of the matter is that suffering and trouble and
    persecution will happen.  Christ said so.  And Jesus Christ also said
    that the servant is not greater than his master; if they do these
    things to me, they will be done to you as well (loose paraphrase -g).
    
    The fact of the matter is that joy and peace CAN reign in your heart. 
    Jesus came to bring us a peace that the world can not hope to give.
    
    Christ is light in a world that embraces darkness.  Persecution is
    happening and will continue....but let joy and peace reign in your
    heart.  That is a promise from the Lord in His word that will not be
    revoked, no matter how bad it gets.
    
    In Him,
    
    -greta

    
    all good thoughts, but the greater question is "will you be ready." 
    
    Before you answer that, remember Peter was "ready" to die for Christ.
    
    Pretty sobering as well.
    
    Dan

Greta,

That is so true.

Maybe it's idealism or zeal; although I know it's not masochism :-), but I 
think I'm anxious for the persecution to arrive and am getting rather impatient.
The persecution will finally weed out the true Christians from the false and
will drive away the apostates.  As they say, "the blood of the martyrs is the
seed of the church."  We will live as they did in the early days of 
Christianity, and there will be no lukewarm believers.

Then again I have to remind myself not to get too romantic, because when it
comes, I know I will suffer greatly, and I'm not yet prepared for suffering.
I mean, it will be a great consolation to suffer for the King, and I certainly
will not fear man and do not fear I will lose faith -- but I would likely lose
my job, go hungry, go homeless, hated by my family and everyone else.  My zeal
to suffer for the Lord will not be able to keep me happy continuously as my
future falls apart and becomes filled with uncertainty.  But I trust that the
Lord will take care of us -- we will form small communities of true believers
and God will grant us supernatural consolations.  And I know I have the courage
to be a confessor or a martyr.

According to some prophecies I have run across, there will be a great schism
in my church, the Catholic Church, between the modernists and the orthodox,
which will pit "cardinal against cardinal and bishop against bishop."  The
orthodox will be the minority afterwards; at some point, the Pope will be forced
to leave Rome, and he will go to France and then to Poland -- from there he
will lead, or try to lead, the remnant orthodox Catholics.  Meanwhile, in Rome,
a false church will be set up and an anti-Pope will be elected: this will be
the seat of the false religion, and will probably subsist in the schismatic
modernist church that will remain after the schism (and hence it will be 
Catholic in appearance, but the true Catholic church will be bitterly 
persecuted by this church).  This anti-church will be an ecumenical one world
church, and will absorb all of the apostate and nominal Christians into one
blasphemous church.

And so I prepare to be a member of a small, remnant, underground Catholic
Church.  But in a way I think this is good because all of the leaven and
corruption which has infiltrated our church will be purified out of it, and 
only true believers will remain.  It will be much smaller and will be united
by a common cause, a common faith, and a common threat.  By now our church is
so filled with heterodox unbelievers that it is hard to find anyone faithful
anymore.  It will be sad to see it break apart but good to see it cleansed.

At least one prophecy says that true Christians will be able to recognize one
another by the sign of the cross on their forehead, visible only to other
believers.  That will be of great benefit to us.

Eric

>    Before you answer that, remember Peter was "ready" to die for Christ.
    
>    Pretty sobering as well.
    
Ah, but the Holy Spirit had not come.  By the time the Holy Spirit came, every
one of the Apostles save one had the courage to be martyred, whereas before He
came, they were all blubbering chickens.  And St. John was a confessor -- he 
died naturally, but died in exile after having suffered immensely.

Pray most of all for strength, courage, and faith.

Eric

    .14
    
    thanks for reminding us, Greta.
    
    It's been my experience that Satan would like us to stay fearful - 
    I think it's one of his greatest weapons.  Fear paralyzes us.  If he 
    can get us to be afraid of <fill in the blank>, that means we are not
    taking action.
    
    I struggle alot with the "fear of the future".  But God has only given
    us today.  He hasn't promised tomorrow.  All I can do is my best at
    what I believe He has asked me to do/live/be etc.  One day at a time.
    
    Karen
    

    
    >Ah, but the Holy Spirit had not come.  By the time the Holy Spirit
    came, every
    one of the Apostles save one had the courage to be martyred, whereas
    before He
    came, they were all blubbering chickens.
    
    
    Dont want to go down a rat hole here, but they all walked and talked
    with Jesus. They witnessed many miracles and knew that Jesus was the
    Savior. John the Baptist died a horiffic death prior to the Holy Spirit
    descending.  My point is simply that if those whom we know had such a
    close relationship with Christ could not stand (Peter) the test of
    confessing Jesus with their mouth when their lives were at stake, (
    actually it was a servant girl who confronted Peter) let us not be too
    pretentious about how we will react.  Let's focus upon increasing our
    relationship with our Lord now.
    
    Dan

    Karen,
    
    Your note confirmed to me why I felt that strong prompting to enter
    .14.
    
    You are not alone in how fear can play with your mind and emotions!  I
    also can suffer this way.  I think there is something about these kinds
    of topics which can cause the faint of heart among us to dwell more on
    the terrible stuff than keep our focus on Jesus.
    
    The irony of walking with Jesus is that He is with us in the midst of
    the storm.  No matter how crazy things get...and I'm sure that Matthew
    24 does a pretty good job convincing us that things WILL get crazy...
    despite it all, Jesus will be with us.
    
    And our testimony of faith, courage, steadfastness will be like Paul in
    the prison.  Shackled, patiently enduring physical suffering, and yet
    able to have a praise and worship session at midnight.  I want to be
    able to have that kind of testimony, don't you?!  Dear friends, we
    can't do this in our own strength...and Jesus doesn't want us to do it
    in our own strength.  HIS burden is light.  HIS joy is our strength. 
    HIS grace is sufficient.
    
    Eric -- I *hear* you brother!  Let me share in your sufferings, Lord!
    
    Take care, dear ones,
    
    Love in Him,
    
    Greta

>    insatiable. In the primary scene the priest lifted what was obviously
>    meant to be a beer bottle to his mouth while Ed the movie-maker was at
    
    I went to St. Johns Prep in Shrewsbury.  Priests that DID NOT drink
    were in the minority.  In addition, the recent revelations of the
    actions of a select few priests aren't helping the Catholic image as
    far as Hollywood is concerned.

>I guess the pedophilia scandals are the Catholic versions of the Jimmy
>Swaggart and Jim Bakker scandals.
    
    Very true, and I'd get used to it if I were you.  God will continue to
    purge *all* of those that claim to his name.

    re: .21
    
    Eric's reply in .22 said it better than I ever could say it!
    
    It is unfortunate that much of these things do occur, but it is not
    the result of the conservative teachings of the Church that has its
    eternal roots back to scripture and Christ's words. 
    
    The modern world has no admonitions against drinking or scripturally
    unacceptable behavior and it seems doubly hypocritical for an industry 
    as corrupt as Hollywood to first scorn priests and religions for being 
    'old fashioned' in their orthodox beliefs [tempting them to loosen up and
    accept a modern doctrine]; then, once they have given in to the 
    world, to scorn them a second time. 
    
    It is the Christian calling to strengthen each other in faith and the
    practice of Christian living. Where were all the fine Christian voices
    when encouragement was so needed? Where are Christian voices which 
    minister as Jesus did, with compassion rather than judgement, to those
    who have fallen? 
    
    The writers on Northern Exposure and other shows do not want virtuous
    priests, religious and ministers because they readily mock such 
    witness also. It is Satan's ploy of scorning the virtuous to the point
    of temptation and then scorning the same people when they fall.
    
    As for drinking: the Catholic Church does not consider drinking a sin
    if it is temperate. Therefore, it might seem sinful to Protestants that
    admonish against all drinking, but it is not hypocritical within the
    Catholic framework. If drinking is done in excess then it is of 
    concern, but then it is delt with individually.
    
    Once again, I can't see Hollywood as being in any position to reform
    the Church!
    
    Peace,
    
    Mary
    

Well try number 2, politically correct version.

>    I went to St. Johns Prep in Shrewsbury.  Priests that DID NOT drink
>    were in the minority.  In addition, the recent revelations of the
>    actions of a select few priests aren't helping the Catholic image as
>    far as Hollywood is concerned.

I guess the pedophilia scandals are the Catholic versions of the Jimmy
Swaggart and Jim Bakker scandals.

The really sad thing is, if you talk to people who are familar with the
seminaries, not only are most of the seminaries in America doctrinally corrupt
-- in open rebellion against the authoritative teachings of the church's
official teaching office, so much so that seminarians known to be loyal to the
Pope or "conservative" in beliefs aren't even accepted -- but at many
seminaries in this country, there are reports of widespread sexual immorality
and licensiousness, protected by the authorities at the seminaries, especially
kinds of sexual activity forbidden absolutely by Christian (especially
Catholic) teaching (as opposed to activity which is created expressly for
married life).  To some priests, "priestly celibacy" is something they laugh
about and wink knowingly to each other when they talk about it.  Not only is
this an offense against Christian teaching, it is a violation of a personal,
voluntary commitment to total celibacy.

This of course is not a result of the church's conservative stand on priestly
celibacy, but rather a result of apostasy and infiltration of liberal doctrine
and rebellion against the authentic teachings of the church and against the
Pope himself.  There is not nearly the problem with pedophilia in other 
countries with orthodox seminaries.

So IMHO it is not surprising, unfortunately, to see all this pedophilia when
the seminaries are so corrupt and are breeding grounds for this kind of sexual
activity which mirrors so closely the pedophilic encounters we have been
seeing. I'm not sure how we got into this mess, but I'm sure Satan has a great
deal to do with it.  "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered."

Eric

Tough Times at "Our Grieving Savior" High School lie ahead.

I'd like to share a few personal observations as a "want to be"
servant. Even though I am not worthy to stand in his shadow I
feel through prayer that God has given me some insight; at least
I hope it comes from him. Please accept these observations.

o A great falling away

  This has been going on for some time, maybe since the last century,
  in an age of "Enlightenment". I have read many good books on the
  subject and cannot but feel technology plays some important part in
  this. While technology can be an obedient servant to man and a 
  feather in God's cap [after all everything falls within HIS creation]
  it has taken on a life and spirituality all it's own. Technology has
  taken on God-like status in the world. It seems interesting all the
  energy that is being expended on a political level to bring the Third
  World up to Western standards. I saw a very telling political cartoon
  once, a Hindu peasant in India is seated in a barren landscape and is
  taking stock of a Care package in front of him. In it are personal 
  toiletries, a television set, a VCR, Walkman, pocket calculator and
  other things we take for granted. There is no food or medicine and he
  has this puzzled look on his face. What does this have to do with a 
  falling away? All of us rely on technology, and let's face it, in 
  America it does things that God does not. Where God has failed to heal
  sickness, modern medicine has done a so-so job of extending life, not
  ALWAYS quality of life, but vital signs are maintained. Where God has
  not done such a good design, men and technology have made engineering 
  changes through DNA research, cross breeding animal and plant species.
  "why didn't God place the ears on the shoulders for better stereo
   separation :-)". We rely more on cold hard facts. Things that can be
  seen under microscopes, registered on our equipment, quantified and
  validated by our computers. Spiritual issues are much less tangible
  and more vaporous in nature, "nailing jello to a tree". I am not damn-
  ating technology, far from it! But it seems man's handiwork has rep-
  laced God as the comforter, our thirst for knowledge has taken on an
  almost religious significance. Jesus claimed that, "faith can move
  mountains", but so can high explosives and earth moving equipment.
  The well-to-do rely less on church and a faith community and more on
  manmade tangible things; fruits of labor. Anyway, who has time for
  church, when there are not enough hours in the day for all the more
  important pressing issues. The fantastic job the media has done in 
  painting Christians and their church as villainous, has also helped
  in the falling away and people may say, "Where is this God? show your
  face! let me touch your wounds! Perform a real miracle". We have become
  jaded, and need concrete proof. There are other Gods, money, power,
  image and influence. The media tells us, "this is all that matters".

o Hollywood.

  Almost 5 decades ago, when I was a boy, movies had strong moral teachings.
  The good guy always won, the criminal always dropped his gun, "Ya got me 
  copper!" Traditional Christian values were woven into many story lines. 
  Television families such as those on, Ozzie and Harriet, Father Knows 
  Best, and others were traditional. Today we have The Bundy's, The Bunker's
  and a host of others. Affairs are common and a family is what you make it.
  I find myself watching less and less TV. Sex and violence seem to have
  taken over much of TV and movies. When I look back on the science fiction
  and horror movies of the 40's and 50's, they seem like a church picnic in
  comparison to what sells at the box office today. People have become so
  much more "sophisticated" and DEMAND more from their entertainment. Like a
  drug, bigger larger and larger doses of sex and violence are needed to get
  the same thrill that a generic bad guy or man in a rubber monster suit
  once supplied. The only thing that seems to matter today is "market share"
  or the weekly box office take. The movie can be totally devoid of substance
  but will be a hit when it takes in X number of million dollars in it's first
  week.

  There is an interesting book by Larry Poland, "Preparing for the Persecution".
  Larry served as a Christian consultant for Hollywood during the filming of
  "Last Temptation of Christ" and talked about working with other consultants
  on sexual minority, racial and ethnic issues. This was to police the industry
  in giving accurate portrayals of character types and not foster stereotypes.
  he talked about producers assuring him that the movie would be biblically a-
  curate and was angry over them doing just the opposite. As he said, "they 
  would never dream of pulling this on a sexual minority or racial group, but
  it is always open season on Christianity. It does seem funny that some movies
  attempt portraying God in a good light, but never seem to mention his Son. I
  know that this would offend many and I suppose that's all that counts. The
  more people you alienate at the box office, the lower the profit margin, and
  Christians are a small minority. 

  I confess to being a real science fiction fan and Trekkie. Almost on a sub-
  conscious level I am able to strip out all the new age and other religious
  messages and just enjoy character, plot and effects. Star Wars, the force
  is an impersonal force, but some Christian messages can be gleaned, the
  battle between good and evil, with good ultimately winning. Star Trek seems
  to contain many deities and beliefs. In one of the movies, cannot remember
  which one, Spock, I think made reference to Christian mythology. Star Trek
  The Next Generation is an exercise in valuing diversity. On last night's
  re-run episode Capt Picard lets Worf go on leave to find his faith. Their
  God would return {Christ} and Worf learns he is a clone from genetic material
  of the original. After some crises, it was decided the Klingons needed a God
  and the clone would serve. Still I really enjoy a good sci-fi TV show or
  movie.

  In the horror arena, I'm not sure how to feel, since so much relies on gore
  and blood for their own sake. In the creature "double dare" features I grew
  up with, monsters were either the product of man's lust for power or money 
  and were always destroyed, along with their inventors. Either that or nasty
  aliens, who we finally sent packing. Today it seems, the evil just goes on 
  and on and doesn't know when to say, "ya got me copper, I quit!" I was glad
  when Freddy was finally DEAD, in Nightmare on Elm Street. How many times 
  did Jason have to keep coming back in Friday the 13th; it all depended on
  the continued box office receipts. The message is evil is here and triump-
  hant, "you cannot kill the bogeyman". Does Satan play into this shift in
  outcomes, I will not speculate! Look in any well stocked video store and
  see what dominates the stock; that is where our state of soul lies. I
  rented a very interesting movie, John Carpenter's, "They Live". This act-
  ually contains some fantastic Christian parallels on how Satan is active in
  the world today. Evil aliens have enslaved us and are broadcasting some signal
  that masks reality. A drifter comes into town and stumbles on something going
  on in a church. They are making sunglasses that allow people to see what is
  actually going on. The drifter finally convinces another drifter, through a
  fist fight segment lasting about 15 minutes that no mortal could survive,
  that he must put on the glasses and see. What turned me off the most was the
  lengthy gratuitous violence in the film. But so much of film is so filled with
  violence for it's own sake, I find myself renting fewer and fewer movies.

  I rented a Born Again Christian Science Fiction movie once. The store owner
  assured me it was a real "epoch", right up there with the Star Wars trilogy.
  I excitedly brought it home and after viewing have to admit it ranked right
  up there with "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" and "Plan 9 From Outer Space"
  in sheer boredom and hokeyness. The characters were totally unreal and could
  not act, the good guys and villains spent most of their time exchanging
  Scriptural passages. The anti-Christ's fortress looked like an upside-down
  pie plate in a sandbox with toy trucks and Christmas tree lights with a tooth
  pick radio tower. I confess, but do not repent of enjoying more secular sci-
  fi epochs. If the Christian media wants to entice viewers, they have to go for
  bigger name casts, bigger budgets, better scripts. But Hollywood does have a
  way of screening out what they feel is not appropriate, reality mimics art
  and Hollywood calls out the marching orders.

o Government.

  Since God has been knocked off his throne, then man must compensate and
  regulate behavior. What the Bible says is simple. Trouble is, most people
  are offended by it's constrictions; outmoded, killjoy, bigoted, not valuing
  diversity. Today anything that is considered as a "victimless" crime, should
  be made valid. After all it's not wrong, provided it does not infringe on
  the rights of others. We are becoming a globalist society, multiculturalism
  has run rampant. Every individual demands equal treatment and recognition,
  the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. If an individual or group
  truly lacks an ability, even after failure in training, then we must lower the
  standards required so as not to offend that person or group. Christ's greatest
  command would be, "if all else fails lower your standards", and the worst un-
  forgivable sin is, "thou shall not offend or embarrass at any cost, for thou
  shalt be called before the judge". A few years back in a Time magazine article
  the Japanese called us a nation of "cry babies". Have there ever been more
  litiganous times? Questions posed to Christ, "Can I pull my oxen from a ditch
  on the Sabbath?" seem trite. Today Jesus would have the ACLU, Act-Up, and 
  every defamation league under the sun tugging at this robe, each one out-
  yelling the other, each seeking a validation stamp. I wonder how satisfied
  they would be with his response. Would they be plotting in private that this
  man must be silenced, most likely, since human nature is predictable. This is
  one important lesson I've learned from the Bible, we have not changed much
  in millennia, just complicated and confused things more. Jesus walked the 
  Earth in much simpler times. 

  Since man is at the center of things, it takes bigger government and more
  laws to protect each special interest. Who benefits? mostly the lawyers and
  politicians. You can threaten and coerce, but you have not converted any man
  because you have silenced him. This is one thing that the politically correct
  and multiculturalists have not learned. It is like the 2-year old screaming
  until the parent gives in, which in our world, the parent always does. On the
  surface, all is well and good, but under the surface the old hatreds still
  fester. If man lived by God's law, there would be no need for lawyers, or
  big government. There would also be hard pills to swallow, such as some be-
  haviors are ALWAYS wrong, no matter what. This would not give license to
  harass or eliminate the offender, but to call he or she out of their action
  and into righteousness. In a man centered world this just does not work.
  In a society of moral relativism and opportunism, absolutes cannot co-
  exist with ABSOLUTE moral law; it would offend and embarrass many, "you mean
  I cannot do that any more with a clear conscious?"

  Christ taught that if you give a man a fish, you have fed him for a day, but
  if you teach him to fish, he can feed himself. Our current legal structure
  has enslaved a whole class in welfare. Who benefits most, the administrators
  probably. At one time, if someone made a poor fisherman, then he might try
  something else. Today, everyone wants everything their way and if someone 
  lacks the skills to be a good fisherman, then lower the requirements, rather
  then help him learn something more suited to his abilities. In big govern-
  ment we establish "quotas" so that each minority can fish. This makes for
  lower standards in the fishing industry but quiets the masses. I have also
  narrowed the focus on which charitable organizations I give money to, with
  The Salvation Army being at the top of my list. Too many big fund raising
  organizations spend more money on salaries, grand balls, public relations 
  and politicking than they do on the ultimate end user of their services.

  The more government steps in, the more freedoms we relinquish, not in one
  big sweep, but in time more and more must be sacrificed so that everyone
  gets their piece of the pie; deserved or not. The undeserving ones seem
  to become wards of the state, welfare junkies! I knew a young Black man
  for years. Through some unfortunate occurrences, he needed aid. He was art-
  iculate and intelligent. He told me many times that he just wanted to get
  to work and felt "bummed out" to be a ward of the state. Each time he pet-
  itioned his counselors was told they knew better than him what he needed.
  I wonder if BIG government had it's way, we'd all be slaves to the sys-
  tem. While I agree whole heartedly this country desperately needs radical
  health care reforms, I'm concerned over how it will be administered. Will
  sloth and apathy be rewarded, while hard work is penalized? There is too much
  greed and power brokering going on, too many BIG ego's playing God at the
  helm for my comfort. Maybe that's why, looking at it from a Christian per-
  spective, man in his fallible, corrupt state will only play out the same
  time worn scenarios of lies, double talk, greed and corruption. I have no
  simple solutions. It seems to be quickly becoming a "God Sized" job!
  If {I hope} and when Christ returns, I would love to be alive to see the
  petitions of the politicians, lawyers and social engineers, "Hey didn't
  we make it a better world? Didn't we stomp out hatred and bigotry? Didn't
  we {insert other petition}?" And won't it be a laugh when he chases them
  away, "begone you slimy devils!"

o Christian notes.

  I see Christianity in general becoming the whipping boy for society's
  ills. The world holds on to the Crusades, The Inquisition, The Salem Witch
  trials and a host of other Christian sins. But Christians I speak with are
  ashamed and embarrassed by mistakes of the past. They admit, even as Christ-
  ians are prone to failure. Chuck Colson spoke about this in some of his
  books saying they are an embarrassment, thousands died during the Crusades,
  but many tens of millions died under humanist "utopian" ideals of Marx,
  Lenin, Hitler and other dictators. He also stated that some African nations
  flourished while under Christian rule {Ethiopia} and after it was voted out
  have suffered under "want to be" dictators. I see the same happening in the 
  Western world, particularly in America, as God is pushed aside, other man
  centered systems take his place. I am convinced that the more morals decline
  and crime and violence progress, the louder social engineers will claim that
  all that's needed are more and more programs, bigger government, education,
  etc. At some point, if things get bad enough and people are desperate enough
  for social order, a police state might be needed; for the greater good of 
  course! And whenever Christians speak up, unless something major happens, they
  will more than ever be vilified. I may not be alive to see any of this take
  place, but as I've seen empires can topple overnight and maps become obsolete
  in the same time frame. I cannot say when or if the great persecution will
  take place, but certain indicators tell me in more "civilized" and techno-
  cratic societies this time is drawing closer.
   
o While Christians fiddled, Christianity burned.

  I will add my own section here. I have also read some Christian authors; 
  Billy Graham, Chuck Colson and other Catholic, Protestant writers who have
  noticed the same trends as I have. I repeat again that the world at large,
  especially the mass media have had a feeding frenzy, painting the faith and
  faithful as corrupt and evil, or at best as spiritually incontinent, yes
  incontinent! and incompetent clowns.

  While the 70's and 80's saw many slogans, yuppies with yellow diamonds
  in rear windows of BMW's and Volvo's reading, "Baby on Board" Christian
  vehicles sported bumper stickers with, "I'm Saved, Can I Throw You a 
  Rope?" and such. This says nothing of faith or acts thereof. To me it 
  served as a pretty arrogant statement. This is like saying, "well I did
  my taxes", or, "I got the car inspected for this year, so I'm home free
  until next time". Chuck Colson also commented on this sort of Christian
  display. What about the Mother Theresa's of the world, the priests, nuns
  and Protestant ministers who are in the trenches living their faith? The
  media chooses to ignore those comforting people with AIDS and other dis-
  eases, clothing and feeding the needy, getting drug addicts into recovery,
  and all those other selfless acts of charity. Why? I suppose it does not
  make good news copy. People in society would rather be vicariously enter-
  tained by scenes of misery and suffering, so long as it's someone else
  who suffers. Too many Christians raise their hands, "praise the Lord, 
  praise Jesus!", then go about their business; I've set the alarm and will
  get my wake up call, how about you. 

  I watched a program last year, one of those 20/20 type shows and a seg-
  ment was filmed in the former Soviet Union. Every faith was in there 
  competing for market share; ISKON, JW's, Mormons and every other group
  that fundamentalists call "cults" were out there running food kitchens,
  housing and job banks, helping the hurting in general. What were the
  American Christians doing? Standing on street corners, grinning their
  Cheshire cat grins and in deep Southern drawls handing out Bible tracts,
  "Jaayysuuuss loves ya, come to our service". Reminded me of fraternity
  houses rushing new pledges. A Russian Orthodox priest was interviewed
  and was appalled at the circus going on, the feeding frenzy of just
  getting the desperate over to "our" side, with no concern for the well
  being of the people.

  During the period of the 60's to 80's I met countless Christians who were
  just relieved to get their tickets collected at the gate and given the
  go ahead to board that jumbo jet destined for the pearly gates. A number
  I spoke with felt the rest of the world could continue to hell, they were
  saved. And during this time Christians had their secure enclaves of Christ-
  ian only, clubs, music, dinners, trips. It was like a Christian ghetto
  where "they" were in the world, but not of it, totally oblivious to what
  was going on all around them. While the world sank to unheard of depths,
  they sang their songs of glory and praise. In his radio show, Talk Back
  Bob Larson has asked many times where all the "comfy" Christians are.
  Don't they see or care what's going on all around them. While I do not 
  agree with some of Bob's comments, he had made many good points on how
  Christianity has slept while the world burns.

  Christians also, like it or not, share much of human nature. An insidious
  human trait is waiting until things get so out of hand, then going into
  a "Chicken Little" mode. The boat's been leaking for decades, but now that
  the deck is sinking below the water line, "we'd better do something quick".
  Problem is that the secular world has been working overtime at putting 
  in place systems and world views that would take an overt act of God to
  reverse. Now that Christians are voicing concern, they are labeled as "far
  right wingers", "hate mongers" as well as a host of other unflattering
  labels. The 60's provided such an overwhelming ground swell of change that
  the voice of Christianity got drowned out in many places; constricting,
  outmoded ideas. A stuffy old God that didn't fit the changing times. Like
  the myth of "Pandora's Box", all the evils are out and the world has em-
  braced them. What mere mortal has the energy to turn the tide? What also
  aids the current wave is the pervasive "bad Press" that Christianity is
  getting; televangelists falling from grace, priests caught in sex scandals,
  etc, etc. The world does not understand that Christians are also human,
  therefore prone to failure as much as anyone else. The world thinks that
  Christians should be perfect, and perhaps they have been guilty of leading
  a world to believe they are above sin, which they are not. There are many
  times I wish the Christian world had stood better watch against evil in the
  world, that and did a better job of teaching the forgiveness and love of
  Christ. The world does not seem to have heard or cared.

  A Silent "not so good" Christian

    
    Mark, I generally agree with you about the sad state of some professing
    Christians.  Christianity tells the world how wonderful Christ is and
    how wonderful it is to know him, but Christianity fails to obey his
    teachings.   
    
    The Christian message is one of confusion, different doctrines, dif-
    erent messages and one of the most damaging, a better than you
    attitude.  No wonder non-believers have a hard time understanding.
    These are some of the complaints I have gotten from non-believers
    about the Christian messag

    Note .25 is from an author who wishes to remain anonymous.  Thank you
    Mark for posting this note...
    
    Nancy

    Sorry Nancy.  I simply don't believe someone besides Mark writes 300 line
    replies.

That's true.  I write 1400 line replies.

:-)

Paul

 Thank you to the author of .25   A real eye openining and convicting
message.




Jim

I would have liked to have written .25 myself, Mike, if that makes it any 
better.  ;-)

>  Christ taught that if you give a man a fish, you have fed him for a day, but
>  if you teach him to fish, he can feed himself. 

This is an excellent, pure, and true principle, but Jesus didn't say it. I think
it was Confucius (sp).

Eric

    
    To revisit this note, I have been struggling for some time with
    most of the issues raised in this note, especially in regards to the
    Scripture in II Chronicles 7:13-14.

    13. If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or I command the locust to
    devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
    14. If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves
    and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will
    I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their
    land.

    Every time I hear of all the problems of the world I have to come back
    to this and ask myself, is it really this simple?  What about the
    persecution that Paul warned about?  I was brought up that God only did
    good things, and anything bad that happened was of Satan.  The church I
    attended as a child seemed to forget about discipline completely, (as
    well as the Old Testament) so I had always assumed that all this
    terrible stuff was because Satan was running wild, and never occurred to
    me that some of this was because of the sin of the Christian community.

    Sparky

Hi Sparky,

II Chronicles 7:13-14 was written under the old covenant, which was 
principally a physical covenant.  The benefits from it were temporal, 
although it was the key to a greater, spiritual covenant.  The promise of 
blessing on the land was conditional upon the people - collectively - walking 
faithfully before the LORD, and doing their best to apply the laws He gave.

There is a comparison given in 2 Corinthians 3:7-18 which I find helpful, 
as it stresses how much greater is the eternal blessing than a temporal
blessing, even in what the eternal one does for us down here on earth.  It
tells us we have an eternal glory growing within us continually, in
contrast to the temporal which fades away. 

Hebrews 12 underlines the importance of discipline, in that it proves our 
sonship especially verses 5-11.

Romans 8:18 and 2 Corinthians 4:17 also stress the insignificance of
earthly suffering in comparison to the richness of the eternal reward.

Meanwhile, I believe that if a *nation* sincerely repented and turned to 
the LORD, en masse, they, as a nation, could know the blessing promised in 
II Chronicles 7:13-14.  His promises are immutable.  But we can't just 
claim a form of words without a true heart allegiance.

You'll remember in Genesis 18 & 19, how Abraham found God happy to forgive 
the gross sin of Sodom and Gomorrah if He could find but few faithful men 
there, but the weakness of the family of God there, and the wickedness of 
the cities was such that Heis purposes were achieved by bringing the 
faithful to a sanctuary before bringing destruction upon evil.

Although Israel received the promise of II Chronicles 7:13-14, they were 
unable to remain in that place of faithfulness - hence the exiles.  And 
they were warned beforehand that this would happen.  In Moses' farewell at 
the end of his life, in Deuteronomy 31:16-29, their unfaithfulness was 
foretold as a warning to them not to become lax.  Deuteronomy 32 is a song 
of witness to them, to defend them from this as long as possible.  Joshua 
gave the same warning at the end of his life (only more briefly), in Joshua
24, especially verses 19-20.  Even though they had that great promise, they
were unable to make the best use of it, holding on throughout.  (Though
they did reap the fruits of repentance, as in Daniel 9:3-19 and Nehemiah
1:4-11 

In the New Covenant, God has not only given us a greater, eternal covenant;
He has taken the responsibility of fulfilling our part within us as we are
moulded to His likeness, but this only reaches its fulfillment when we see
Him face to face, and are like Him, because we see Him as He is (1 John 3:2). 

Hope this is some help ...

						God bless
								Andrew

    .33
    
    I understand exactly what you mean there Sparky. :-)  The problem
    withour society today is the fact of roulette responsibility. 
    Psychology has taught us we can blame others for our behavior, shifting
    responsibility on to those who harmed us as children.
    
    Christianity teaches that we must take responsibility for our own
    behavior, thus making each of us responsible for how we behave.  
    
    Christianity although demanding our responsibility, also teaches us
    principles to be used in healing a wounded heart.... awareness,
    acknowledgement, vengence is God's and forgiveness of the wrong is the
    key to healing.
    
    But we will continue to blame society, parents, teachers, neighbors, or
    the family dog for the sin that run rampant in our society.
    
    As a Christian, we need to not get trapped into the psychological
    society, but consistently know that God's word and principles can help
    any wounded heart.  
    
    "For more information write Juliet::morales_na" :-) :-)
    
    With love,
    Nancy
    

>    I was brought up that God only did
>    good things, and anything bad that happened was of Satan.

In short, He does only good things.  But for the good of what and Whom?
Examine the reasons why God has acted to bring destruction, or even has 
instructed it to be done.  In every case, it is an act of expunging evil
and filth.  Consider any household disinfectant - designed to destroy
germs and harmful substances.  Or how about amputation of a limb to 
save a life.  One could find many examples where "bad things" are 
really a subjective view and miss the overview.

It was a cruel thing to destory the earth with the flood, or was it?
Was it better to let wickedness continue?  Remember that wickedness 
does harm.  Destroying the harmful is good, and purges evil from the
presence of good.

When judgment comes, it will be terrible for all to see or experience.
But judgment is necessary considering the alternative or progressive
and contnued wickedness, filth and harm.

Wow, this note is pretty much a downer because we don't normally think
of God in terms other than harps, flowers and santa claus (or a genie)
lavishing us with enough good things to keep us from defecting to the
other side that also lavishes us with temptations.  And sad to say, I
know people who think they can play off the Good and Evil sides, as
if they were equal and wanted us badly to join their team for the 
final big game.  Fact is, God wants us, but not to add anything to 
Him, but to enter a love relationship.  Satan doesn't want us, but
he wants to ensure that God doesn't get us - so he want us...destroyed.

When we begin to see God as holy, and Sovereign of everything, including
Satan (!), we can begin to see that Good and Evil are not caught in
a deadlocked war like yin and yang.  Evil will come to its full measure
"as it was in the days of Noah" and God will repay and avenge with justice
and (thank heaven) with mercy for those who are covered by the blood.
Re-read the passover story, and the significance of the blood, and
who it was who sent the death angel, and the mercy provision that was
made.

Yes, God is good, and does only good, but in that doing so, those who
find themselves in the hands of an angry God will not think so.

Mark

    .36
    
    Thanks Mark, I needed that!

	To expand on the theme of not letting fear paralyze us...
Now is the time to "Do Right, and Risk the Consequences", as a local TV
host reminds us each night as he signs off.

	Now that the opposition is being very openly marshalled against the
Foundation (who is Christ) at the US Federal level, in a united effort by
anti-morality forces in the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches
of government, the temptation for us Christians is to avoid all confrontations,
in hopes of surviving the onslaught.

	From what I can observe, the very organizations and individuals
within Christianity, who most seek to accommodate and respect the militant
agendas of certain other groups (without naming names here), are the ones
who receive the most vicious scorn and slander from those groups.

	It's testimony time - the world is watching us to see what we truly
believe.  We will continue to do the things we deeply and firmly believe
are right, even when we are persecuted for it.

	We are rightly scorned if we abandon our principles at the first
sign of trouble.

	As one example (not suited to the interests of all readers): The
sheer volume of abortion death is unlikely to decrease under the current
regime.  The need is increasing for someone (anyone) to defend these
innocent lives from the slaughter that awaits them.  At the same time, the
ranks of the pro-life movement don't appear to be swelling with volunteers.

	If you know something is the right thing to do, please let's start
(or continue) doing it now.  If you prefer to quietly support mothers who
bravely choose to give birth rather than abort, excellent; keep up the good
work!

	If you'd like to protest, but you don't want to be arrested, be
assured that a few forms of protest will remain *legal*, even after the FACE
bill becomes law!  I'm sure we all want to avoid arrest so we can continue to
hold our jobs and support our families.

    Here's a few thoughts, totally mine, off the top of my head.  Some of
    it is Biblical, some of it is my own interpretations of events.  Keep
    in mind that I do a bit of extrapolating here, and may be barking up
    the wrong tree.  I'll let you decide.  If nothing else, maybe this will
    promote further discussion on certain tangents.
    
    
    There are too many things happening in the world today are related to
    be coincidence.  For one, we have seen, in just a few short decades, a
    massive public turn away from God in this country.  Unprecedented
    SCOTUS rulings led to prayer being taken out of school (along with
    posters of the 10 Commandments, the Bible, etc.), rulings which go
    against the beliefs and intent of those who founded this country.  We
    see the Constitution being used as a secualar battering ram to redefine
    individual rights, as well as the oppression of religion- or should I
    say Christianity. 
    
    Earlier policies set precedent for the serious social problems we
    suffer from today.  New Deal and the Great Society ideals have
    sabataged (sp?) personal responsibility and accountability, and have
    snowballed into huge government-bloated programs that rob the working
    class and give to those who do not earn it.  More importantly, the
    cycle started is unstoppable and is indeed self-perpetuating the very
    problems these programs were set up to "fix".  A whole class of voting
    slaves has been created and used by the powers that be to promote
    further socialist programs, which will inevitably produce similar
    results.  The cycle continues, the working class gets the bill, and
    those in power get more power over thier constituents.
    
    This whole agenda of redistribution only serves to promote class envy,
    which polarizes the classes.  That, and of course a bigger government.
    
    
    Next, we have personal rights.  Where do society's right to keep the
    peace stop, and personal rights begin?  You are not free to murder,
    rape, steal, etc.  But things like pornography and blasphemy- things
    that early SCOTUS rulings held to be wrong, are now promoted by
    society, all in the name of personal freedom.  What used to be
    universally held as wrong, is now okay, as long as there is no
    "victim".  Trouble is, society itself is a victim of certain
    irresponsible behavior (certainly not limited to my 2 examples above). 
    The FF believed that we could only remain free so long as we had a
    strong belief in God, and took responsibility for ourselves.  Today, we
    seem to have an "anything goes" attitude towards personal rights and
    freedoms.  We do not take into account any responsibility towards
    society.
    
    This allows any special interest group to exist...including NAMBLA. 
    Not only that, it gives them Constitutional protection so they are free
    to infect society with thier sinful ideas.   This also allows Hollywood
    to push the moral envelope in movies and on TV, all in the name of
    freedom of expression.  It gives them full reign to infect secualar
    humanistic ideals into the collective conscience of America.  End
    result is a promotion of societal chaos, and the stifling of
    fundamental morals and ethics.
    
    
    We also have our ongoing affirmative action being pushed by special
    interest groups.  We have militant feminists pushing an anti-male
    agenda, and we have ACT-UP pushing their agenda.  
    
    This polarizes the sexes and races.  It promotes bad feelings and
    really does nothing to solve the problems at hand.  Those who don't
    follow this mind-altering propaganda are labelled as bigots or worse.
    End result?  Bigger government, more racism, tension between the sexes,
    promotion of immoral behavior, and lots of name calling, in which the
    un-PC Christians seem to get the brunt of.
      
    
    Add this to left-wing environmental groups who push an anti-industrial 
    agenda, animal "rights" groups who push their agendas (that animals are 
    our equals and should not be used for food, coats, or whatever, even if 
    they were raised for that purpose), and you get so much additional 
    government intervention in the private sector as to make it impossible 
    for some companies to continue to keep thier doors opened.  
    
    This promotes an anti-business attitude by the sheep that believe
    everything they hear in the papers.  "Why, we have to shut down that
    logging company, we can't have them cutting trees down like that!" 
    Most petition for reforms without getting the whole story (the spotted
    owl caper, which put the EPA on the map, comes to mind).
    
    Anti-business means anti-jobs.  Anti-jobs means less people go to work,
    which means that more people go on gov. handouts, which means that
    fewer poeple are left to shoulder the tax burden which supports the
    regulations that cost so many jobs in this nation...jobs that
    ironically allowed more tax $$ to be spend on good environmental plans.
    
    I see a conscious effort here to destroy our economy.  So far, it seems
    to be doing a pretty good job.
    
    
    Government corruption.  Too much to say here, but it seems that no
    matter what the people want these days...say, a balanced budget,
    Congress comes up with a plan that is doomed to fail.  They've done
    this so many times now, that I can't help to feel that it is done on
    purpose.  They are purposely raising the deficit, the federal debt and
    our taxes ALL AT THE SAME TIME.  Someone wants us to be in so much debt
    that it will take a foreign buy-out to fix.  There is only so much
    money out there to float to us, and we are definitely getting closer to
    reaching that amount.  I give us about 5-10 years at our current rate
    before either hyper-inflation hits (the printing of more money to
    pay off current debt/devaluting of money due to the
    overprinting/printing yet more money to pay for the debt/ect. produces
    hyper-inflation that devalues the $ quickly, and raises everyones loan
    debt just as fast) or total economic collapse occurs.  Either way, you
    can bet that our pesky Constitution will get tossed by the liberals in
    power due to a state of emergency, and we will be happily assimilated
    into the new world order that the Bible speaks of.
    
    Fact is, even the dumbest Congressman knows what can happen once the
    debt reaches a certain point.  I can't help but think that we are being
    purposely sold out here.  Satan is in control of our government, it
    would seem (maybe not every individual, but those who hold all the
    cards).
    
    So, who will buy us up?  Maybe the EEC?  Some prophesy scholars belive
    this is the new Roman empire of the end times...maybe they're right?  I
    don't know.  In 10 years, they may be the strongest economic "nation"
    around, they have all the necessary tools, they just lack proper
    implimentation at this time.  It's food for thought, in any case.
    
    Next we have an obviously controlled media- at least most of it.  Gun
    control is promoted with statistical trichery and outright lies.  I
    find it hard to belive that national TV stations do not have the clout,
    the fact checkers, and the resourses to find out the truth on any given
    subject...much less one as easily researched as gun statistics.  We are
    being intentionally lied to, so the government can take yet more of our
    liberties and allocate them.  The end goal is total confiscation, that
    much is obvious.  I could use other media biased examples, but this one
    is a personal pet peeve of mine.  8^)
    
    Without firearms, the law-abiding will be easy prey to the armed
    criminal- not even safe in his own home.  Statistics prove that there
    is a corolation between guns and crime, unfortunately, the media seems
    to have gotten them confused (backwards, actually).  Armed citizens
    (law abiding) equate to less crime, strict gun control equates to more
    crime (see Washington DC's crime rate, they have the strictest gun
    control laws in the nation).  Any grade-schooler can look at the facts
    and figure out that gun control does not help, but harms this nation,
    so I can't help but wonder why it is being pushed so hard lately?  Not
    to reduce crime, that's for sure.
    
    Hmmm...maybe the liberal-thinkers actually KNOW this and promote gun
    control as a cure-all because it actually has the opposite effect?  If
    crime really gets out of hand, don't those in power have the ability to
    declare martial law?  This seems to be one way around the Constitution,
    in any case, though I don't see this as the entire reason.  The real
    reason is to promote more socialist policies to "fix" the increase in
    crime- which equates to more power and a bigger government.  This is
    what they want.  I can see no other reason.  
    
    Of course, there's always that pesky idea that perhaps 200,000,000
    armed citizens *could* take back thier government from the corrupt
    masses that are in power now.  Hmmm...
    
    
    Maybe I'm reading too much into current events, I don't know.  But I
    keep getting this nagging feeling that all the things are in place for
    the new world order, and that all is left is for the US to fail.  And
    when I look at the near complete polarization of our society, the
    government corruption, the increasing amounts of socialist policies,
    the beginning of religious persecution here (in a once Christian
    nation), and the steps to indoctrinate our youth with secualar
    humanism and relativistic morals I can't help but wonder if it all
    isn't a big conspiracy which will lead to our downfall.
    
    We are seeing first hand the creation of the Sodom and Gamorrah (sp?)
    right in our own back yards.
    
    I could just be a conspiracy nut, but I see Satan's hand everywhere.  I
    guess the key to keeping the spirits up these days is to not overlook
    that which is from God's hand.  Don't let Satan's handiwork blind us to
    what God is doing all around us.
    
    Personally, I think we are getting a wake up call, end-times or not. 
    Society will become increasingly polarized in the future, Christians
    undoubtedly being in the minority (hope I'm wrong).  Once the
    polarazation hits a ceratian point, things will truly get
    "interesting", and persecution will begin in earnest.
    
    Boy, what a downer of a note to leave you with for the New Year.  8^(
    
    I'll try to be more upbeat in 1994.  8^)
    
    Have a happy New Year everyone, may God bless you and yours.
    
    -steve

    Gee, I left out abortion and the devaluing of human life, as well as
    the societal moral domino theory we are experiencing (and will probably
    get worse).
    
    Oh well, I guess 170+ line note is big enough.  8^)
    
    -steve

    Steve,
    
    Good note and much to digest.  Too often I don't want to hear the
    reality of what is happening around me and need a wake up call.  It
    doesn't mean God isn't King, it means do you have your armor on?
    
    Nancy

    Hi Nancy!
    
    I hate to be such a downer, but there is a lot going on in this country
    alone that to me, seems to go beyond coincidence.  I try to look at
    these terrible things in two ways:
    
    1) They are a wake up call for Christians.  The only way certain
    agendas have come about is due to an apethy on a majority of those who
    profess themselves as Christians.  The moral majority has been too
    quiet and has been dubbed as stuffy, old-fashioed, biggoted, etc.. 
    This mindset has been pushed by liberals for years to the result that
    we are actually suffering persecution in a country that was founded by
    Christians, on Christian values and morals (which I firmly believe to
    be the reason why we became such a strong nation to start with...what
    better way to destroy a strong nation than to "uproot" its foundation
    that allowed it to prosper?).
    
    We are seeing the result of inactivity today.  This is our wake-up call
    to become active politically, as well as being a beacon to others (by
    example).
    
    2) It's a wake up call to the world.  As things erode, we will see a
    polarization of the world.  Some will go the way of light, the others,
    darkness.  The worse things get, the greater people's need will be for
    God.  It is our job to point them in the right direction.  
    
    I believe that the Tribulations are for the very purpose of waking
    people (or shaking them) up.  It will take extreme measures to shake
    some people into a new way of thinking (and we all, even
    non-Christians, call out to God when things get desparate?).  
    
    Most of today's generation has grown up in an environment where the 
    mentioning of Jesus' name is only acceptable at Christmas.  God has been 
    taken out of the schools, and the only time you see your local church in 
    the news is when the preacher is found out to be a pedophile.  There is
    a definite media trend with regards to religion in general, and it
    isn't a positive one.  
    
    I think we all know the threat of secular humanism is real.  The
    training starts in schools, is promoted by the media, and is very
    seductive as it allows nearly any type of behavior without guilt.  The
    holes in this religion are obvious to us, but what about those who
    have been unknowlingly indoctrinated into it by society since they were
    old enough to walk (like me...though God broke me out of this
    mindset...much praise to His name)?
    
    This is why things have to be so bad in the tribulation.  For the sake
    of those who have been duped, it will take extreme measures to shake
    them out of a lifelong way of thinking.  But since God loves us all, He
    will send these horrors upon those who are not taken in the rapture (I
    beleive the rapture comes before the tribulation), to give them every
    opportunity to call out to Him.
    
    
    I may not be 100% accurate in the above, but I believe there is some
    truth to this.  I believe that the suffering of the Tribulation (and
    even today's many sufferings) pain God, but He endures these things
    with us for our own good.  He could certainly wipe them all out with a
    thought, but that would not help us at all.  
    
    During the tough times, we can grow stronger as we put more trust in
    Him.  We will also have more opportunities to bring other people to the
    truth.  It may not seem to make sense, but think about this...how many
    people really want to change their life when things are going well (or
    at least seem to be going well)?
    
    
    -steve (who talks too much)  8^) 

    Hi Steve!!!
    
    Naw don't worry about too short a note... what you wrote is right on! 
    My heart is so heavy for the weak in Christianity.  I, myself am weak
    still in so many areas and am constantly battling the old nature.  This
    is a time when those who claim the name of Christ to really begin to
    support one another.  We must hold up those that are weak and be
    careful for ourselves that our strength is not taken as a result.  Be
    ready, alert, sober, vigilant and looking towards the eastern sky. :-)
    
    In His Love,
    Nancy

    I know how that battle with the old nature goes...but put on the armor
    of God and trust in Him.  I try to, and fail at times, but I don't let
    failure stop me from trying to be holy and trusting in God.
    
    I heard an interesting monologue about the Armor of God on a Christian
    radio station the other day.  It had to do with visualizing the putting
    on of peices of armor (breastplate of righteousness, helm of salvation,
    etc.) and praying while doing so.  Trusting God to protect our thoughts
    (helm), emotions (breastplate), and other points of weakness that can
    cause us to react or act in an unbecoming manner.  
    
    This may sound strange, but I try and hold this vision of myself in
    this suit of God's armor (glowing armor, of course  8^) ) in my mind. 
    This actually makes me feel protected.  With a bit of visualization and
    concentration, we can constantly remind ourselves that God's armor will
    protect us, and for me, that we are not subjected to more temptation
    than we can bear (though it may seem like that at times).
    
    Let's see, what are the other pieces...sandals of peace, belt of truth,
    shield of faith, and sword of the spirit (word).  Lots of protection
    there...we just have to remember it's always with us.  If we forget, we
    are subject to immediate attack.
    
    Well, it works for me, but then again, I'm one strange puppy.  8^)   I
    don't think that the armor of God would have been mentioned so
    litterally if not to be visualized as litteral spiritual protection,
    for our benefit.  I wonder why I haven't thought of this before?
    
    -steve (God's black sheep)  8^)

    .44
    
    The only oops you made in your note was the black sheep part... you've
    been washed white as snow through the blood of Jesus Christ.
    
    Nancy