Conference yukon::christian_v7

	Interesting question, Glen.

	I'm nowhere near where I want to be.  I want to be like Jesus,
	but I realize that Jesus was perfect.  I don't believe I can ever be 
	perfect.  Should I then give up the goal ? No!  

	It can be quite useful to take a personal inventory time and again
	of where we stand in our Christian walk, but we must also take
	care not to get ourselves under condemnation for the things
	we have not yet achieved or mastered.  The first step is recognizing
	areas that need changing (which usually requires the help of the
	Holy Spirit), the second is opening our hearts to God to allow
	the change to occur and asking for His help, and third is the change 
	itself.  The process can take moments, days, weeks, years.

	The Marriage Ministries program that Jamie and I just finished
	acutually took us through a sort of personal inventory over the
	weeks of homework, as we examined our sowing and reaping, our
	patterns of forgiveness/unforgiveness, our godly and ungoldy life
	patterns, etc.  Through the 13 weeks, some changes have been made,
	some are just beginning.  There are probably some things that still
	have yet to be revealed to us.  

	pressing onward,
	Karen

>>	How close are you to archieving the Christian Traits you desire?

Your question struck me in a couple of different ways Glen.  

                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, although I can tell that this is an offshoot of the question Nancy 
asked in topic 336 under which I entered some replies, the way you've worded 
it - "Christian Traits" - caused me to suddenly realize something that Nancy's
question did not.  This is a bit of tangent from your actual question, but I 
felt I needed to articulate it.  The something that I realized is:

   that we are, in fact, talking about what should be universal human, 
   not just Christian, traits.  Humanity was created by God in God's 
   image and should reflect the traits that God exhibits.  God is the
   standard and He sets the standards.

What we realize as Christians is that we are all, everyone of us, out of
alignment with what we should be.  Just as when a car is out of alignment,
machine parts are out of tolerance, and buildings are out of plumb, we
are weakened and cannot function to our full capacities.  Perhaps a lot of
people recognize that something is wrong, but they don't realize what that
something is and don't know how to measure and correct the deviations.  Even
those of us who have realized that we are malformed and do not measure up
to the design specs for us, and realize that God has delineated what we 
were meant to be - in His word, His law, and by example in Y'Shua, can still
be imperfect in our understanding of those design specs because our flawed
nature limits us in areas.  We must turn to God for help.

                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The second idea that struck me is that one of the exciting things about having
committed oneself to God is to see the changes in ourselves, to see the bends 
and bumps get straightened and smoothed, to gain wisdom, to mature spiritually, 
to grow deeper as human beings.  But its a journey, we climb higher, see new 
vistas, but also see that there are still higher peaks and  better vistas
still to come.  WE NEVER ACTUALLY ARRIVE IN THIS LIFE.  

And the journey isn't easy or always in a forwardly direction.  Growing in 
knowledge, wisdom, spiritual depth, and in closeness to God has its costs too.
A rather poor analogy is that its like when you remodel an ugly and 
disfunctional kitchen.  The first action is to dismantle and gut the current 
layout.  Instead of getting something cleaner, brighter, prettier, more 
efficient and functional right away - you get dust, bare walls, ripped out 
cabinets, no water, and no stove.

But when you finally begin to see what God has in mind in for humanity -
you see that God's final plans outweigh all the cost by a thousand-million
fold.   And so you continue in the journey.

As I look back on my life, I can see the vast changes in my heart and 
attitude, but I can also see the vast frontiers that lie in front of me yet.
But one thing I know - God has been constant, faithful, and sovereign, and
will continue to be so.  He is a lamp to light my paths, and enables me to
climb the heights.

Leslie

    >But when you finally begin to see what God has in mind in for humanity
    >you see that God's final plans outweigh all the cost by a
    >thousand-million
    >fold.   And so you continue in the journey.
    
    I Cor 2:9  
    
    But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither
    have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared 
    for them that love him.
    
    And of course *loving* Him is part of our desire to do right and become
    clay in the Potter's hands.
    
    Nancy

Hi Glen,

Wow!!!!  Some question!!!....  I agree with the preceding, that Jesus is our 
goal, and the closer we get the closer we realise there is still to go.

As fer as looking at my traits goes, I have to look away from them, and 
look at Jesus instead.  If I look at 'me', I'd get discouraged.  If I look 
at Him, I'm encouraged.  Because I know that in my strength I cannot get to 
where He is, but that "He is faithful, Who promised...", and that "when I 
see Him I shall be like Him because I shall see Hi8m as He is..." (sorta 
paraphrasing 1 John 3:2).  He is my goal, guide and guarantee.

						God bless
							Andrew

 Amen, Andrew....


 

One more thing I might add using the journey analogy - if I look at my
path there are sheer rock cliffs, narrow ledges above great precipices,
there are rocky, rutty, muddy trails filled with huge fallen trees with
tangles of branches, sometimes there are large expanses of desert with
the sun beating down mercilessly and no water anywhere ..... lots and
lots of difficulties, obstacles, that can cause great pain and hurt.
If I look just as these, I can grow frightened - certain that the trail
is far beyond my limits - I grow afraid that I will fall, get lost,
starve, or die of thirst.  I become paralyzed by fear and cannot move.

But if I keep my eyes on the one Who bids me to come, who holds out powerful 
hands to keep my from falling, who spreads over me His wings or shield to 
protect and shelter me, then I can continue on - maybe a little afraid 
sometimes, but not paralyzed with fear.  God does answer prayers like the 
one below.  He is there, He hears, He is able, and He responds in love.


A Prayer Plea 
                                    
Dear Lord Jesus, I am afraid -      
Frightened, frightened of everthing.
Scared and running from the world,  
Panic stricken, Lord I cry:         
Save me, Help me, Take my hand !    
Lord, alone I cannot face           
All the tumult of this place -      
Round and round and round about,    
Striking me from every side         
Are the pressures, fears, and doubts
Questions seeming without answer.   
Weak and trembling, Lord I cower;   
Give to me Thy great power -        
Power to take each halting step,    
Power to live on threatening earth, 
Power to take a firm, strong stand,
And trust in God for all my worth.  

Leslie Johnson
1977

	Interesting replies! Leslie, you're an engineer, aren't you!? :-)


Glen

Well, er um, actually I'm a painter, poet, wife, step-mother, reader,
world-traveler, a sometimes worrier, adopted daughter of the King, gardner,
animal lover, dog owner, would-be interior designer, cook ... oh you mean 
at work !!!  I'm an internal business applications programmer in US Logistics
IM&T.

 :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)


Leslie

IMHO the answer to this question is one of ironic consequenses in that
as Christians we strive to be something we know we will never be. 
If we do reach our goals/standards then surely our goals/standards
are well short of what God would wish us to aim for.

As Christians we will never reach our target if our goal is to be pure
and holy. I suppose to the phsyciatrist this will be viewed as excentric
and could lead to phsychological/mental breakdown in that we become so 
frustrated because our targets are never met. I know Christians who
have totally burn't out and given up their faith because of this.

It's a bit like the tower of Babel where man strives for the eternal,
but the end result is always that he falls completely short of his goal.
    
I guess this is in essence the "Gospel message" that no matter who we
are we all fall short and can only reach Godliness through the power
of Jesus. But we will never realise this in full unless we have the
initial will to search for him or the want to be like him.

As Andrew said in .4 that we need to keep looking to Jesus.

Erich
    

	You're encourageable Leslie! Without a doubt! :-)


Glen

    It seems to me that I may have met a very few Christian people who
    "arrived", at least in some sense, just before they left this earth
    by dying a short time later.  Of course, if I'd known them better, I
    suppose I might have noticed an imperfection or two.  Then again,
    maybe they were angels in disguise?