Conference yukon::christian_v7

Christianity, to me, is God vindicating his glory.  God remains just and
true to his character by slaying Jesus instead of me (and you ;-) for
sin against him.

It is the hope I stand on and live in.  That God loves me enough to
sacrifice his son instead of requiring my life.  For that he gets my life
to do as he wants with.

-Steve

Christianity is about Christ.
Catholicism and Protestantism are expressions of Christianity.  

Some people get it backwards and think that Christianity and Christ 
are expressions of their church.  Christ transcends the church just 
as loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength transcends 
(encompasses, validates) all the law and the prophets.  Christ
must be the center of any Christian religion and not just a piece of
a central religious doctrine.  

Christianity is about Christ.

    Christianity is a lifestyle that is driven by the indwelling of Christ
    in me. It is more than a religion; more than a faith. It is the
    totality of who I am, including not only what I believe, but how I
    think, and how I behave.
    
    	BD�

     Amen to .3
    
    Christianity is a relationship with Almighty GOD. It is not a religion.
    
    Mike

    
    
    	Christianity is not a religion ????????
        I must be in the wrong conference, I thought you guys were
    	Biblically based ?
    	Why on earth did the Lord bother. I could have a relationship with
    	God without religion ? Of course I could, but what kind of
    	relationship would that be - when one side doesn't know anything
    	about the other, a little one way...which is no relationship at
    	all. 
    
    	Wow, what happened to "true religion" ? 
    
    	I'm glad that I might be called a religious person - BECAUSE of my
    	relationship with the Lord, and my relationship with the Lord is
    	based on sound teaching and His doctrine - true religion, as
    	St.Paul calls it (forget the reference). It is a relationship
    	because I know what pleases the Lord, and He knows what pleases me.
    	I know what pleases me through His Word - His Teaching - His
    	Religion  !
    
    	Peace,
    		Tom
                   

    Hi,
    
    I'm working for Digital in Kaufbeuren, KBO, Germany. Our location will 
    be closed by the middle of next year. In this situation I have
    experienced what Christianity means for my life. We're really saved in
    Jesus. He gives us hope and a perspective for our future. We can trust
    in HIM, because HIS way for us is a good way.
    
    So, I think Christianity gives us more than we can ever understand.
    
    Best regards
    
      Wilfried
                   

Hi Tom,
.5�    	based on sound teaching and His doctrine - true religion, as
.5�    	St.Paul calls it (forget the reference).

James, actually.  James 1:27.  "Religion that God our Father accepts as 
pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their 
distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

'Religion' is generally taken as the 'form' side of the activity, and tends 
to emphasise what we do.

Because religions tend to emphasise 'what man does' to be a whatever-it-is,
the complete distinction between that approach and heart Christianity is
often emphasised by stressing that Christianity is not so much a religion
as a relationship.  A relationship with the 'Christ' of Christianity. 

There are people who would take some carefully selected part of the Bible
(plus or minus), and treat it as a set of rules, obeying which will get
them to heaven.  That can, if yuo like, be 'religion'.

The essence of Christianity is rather, having a relationship with the LORD
Jesus Christ, which is so close that He lives inside the Christian, and is
expressed through them.  This, of course, is only possible because Jesus
has died for us, so that His blood is applied to our sins.  It's that
'relationship' bit that is one of the things which makes Christianity a
unique 'religion'.  And the outwardly visible evidences of the relationship
are what makes the individual recognisible as a Christian.  But they are
not done 'in order to be a Christian' (as 'religion' would read it), but
'because you are a Christian' - which simple 'religion' does not
understand.  

ie, if someone says 'you are religious', they can mean anything, except the 
heart of the gospel.  If they themselves know and love the LORD Jesus, 
their observation is more likely to centre on that than on the externals.

I see Christianity as practically learning the fulfillment of Jesus' prayer 
in John 17:20-21... :
 "I pray also for those who will believe in Me through their messag, that 
  all of them may be one, Father, just as You are in me and I am in You.  
  May they also be in us ..."

						God bless
								Andrew

p.s. Thanks Nancy...  Lovely topic.

| <<< Note 334.5 by VERVAN::FYFE "I have much more to tell you..." >>>




| I know what pleases me through His Word - His Teaching - His Religion  !


	Tom, what religion was Jesus?


Glen

    Glen,
    
>	Tom, what religion was Jesus?

    Jesus was a Jew -- no doubt about it.
    
    Mark

    Christianity to me is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus
    asked Peter who do you say I am and Peter replied you are the Son of 
    the living God. When Jesus died for our redemption He returned to the
    Father. God the Father and God the Son sent the Holy spirit upon the
    church that we who beleive might have a personal relationship with
    Jesus. Those who are born again are temples of the Holy Spirit. We are
    the branch and Jesus is the vine. We bare the fruit, Jesus produces it
    through the Holy Spirit. It is our duty to be submissive to the Holy
    Spirit that we can be made more holy , more like Jesus and bare more
    fruit. 
    
    Stephen D.	
    

            <<< Note 334.9 by CHTP00::CHTP04::LOVIK "Mark Lovik" >>>

    
> Tom, what religion was Jesus?

| Jesus was a Jew -- no doubt about it.
    
	Thanks Mark. I knew that but there was a reason why I asked. If we
don't follow the religion of Jesus, then are we following the wrong religion?
This was the impression I had gotten from Tom's note. Tom, could you clear this
up please?


Glen

 I suspect that when Tom was referring to Jesus' religion, he was referring
 to His teaching or doctrine, not religious affliation.

 


Jim

| <<< Note 334.12 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "Friend will you be ready" >>>



| I suspect that when Tom was referring to Jesus' religion, he was referring
| to His teaching or doctrine, not religious affliation.

	Thanks Jim. I wasn't sure if that was what he was talking about. Is
that it Tom?



Glen

    Andrew,
    
    I agree. We are unique in HIM, but HE respects our personality. HE
    takes us as we are. HE is our center. 
    
       - Wilfried -

Well, sticking my nose in again...

You could look at it like a scale:


    Religion    |    |    |    middle    |    |    |    Relation


Religion, taken to an extreme (I will ignore non-christian religions), can be
the practicing of certain rituals based on biblical (and extra-biblical) tra-
ditions on a regular basis (for some people, "a regular basis" may be once 
per year at Christmas).

Relation, taken to an extreme (again, only in the "christian" context) would
be a relationship with God based on the finished work of Christ on the cross
(else it would not be christian) that is totally devoid of rituals and tradi-
tions.

For some people christianity is religion, and for some it's relation.  For 
most, it's somewhere in between.  You can apply the usual "bell curve" to
the above scale and you won't be too far off.  I'm purposely ignoring, how-
ever, the biblical definition of religion since it is unclear to most people
what God considers to be "true religion".  We are too tainted by our exper-
iences.

The problem with christianity is that it, in reality, covers the whole spec-
trum.  I'm not trying to determine here how God views it, I'm looking at it
from a purely human perspective.  The "whatever-bashing" that takes place
amongst christians is due to our seeing those people at the "other end" of
the scale from ourselves as being "out of God's will" or just plain wrong.
We assume they are wrong because we assume we're smart enough to have figured
out what God *really* meant, and, of course, we are the ones who are prac-
ticing it.  Therefore anything that does not line-up with what *we* are doing
is wrong.  Most of us will tolerate a certain amount of leeway in either direc-
tion from our position, but we get rather emphatic when it goes too far.


Rob

    
    	Andrew, thanks for the reference, it is James.
    
    	I was referring not to Jesus as a Jew, but His Religion - His
    Teaching - His Gospel, that "sound doctrine that leads to godliness".
    
    To enter into a relationship is a two way street. In order to please 
    someone you first must understand what pleases them. Christ, is God's
    Word, "this is my Son, the Beloved, listen to Him". His religion is the
    Truth, which sets us free, which makes us sons of God. Now can you have
    a relationship with Jesus and not understand what He likes ? Yes you
    can, but it is limited, like the relationship with a man and a woman
    when they first meet, it is shallow at first and very tentative. This
    love grows and develops as we share, as we understand what each other
    likes, wants and needs - not that God needs anything.
    
    The ultimate relationship, for me personally, that I can have on this earth
    is found within the Eucharist - I am in the Father, and the Father is in
    me (Jesus), and I in you - we are truly one, to paraphrase John. I know 
    that the Lord wants this, it is something He desires of us all. Therefore
    should I not do everything in my power to achieve this if I really love
    Him and desire this intimate relationship ? This is an act of faith
    based on His command at the Last Supper.  
    "Do all that He commands" - is this not what we wish ? That His will be
    our will ?  His religion our religion ?
    I also build on my relationship through talking to Him in prayer,
    through dialogue which builds trust, which helps me get to know Him. 
    I further build my relationship through reading His living word in 
    Scripture where He speaks to us all.
    
    And how do we understand all that He commands ? (This is rhetorical)
    
    Peace,
    
          Tom
                                            

    Re: Note 334.14 by KBOMFG::KALLERT
    
�    I agree. We are unique in HIM, but HE respects our personality. HE
�    takes us as we are. HE is our center. 
    
    He indeed takes us as we are (how could it be otherwise - we have no
    ability to come to Him apart from Him), but He doesn't *leave* us as
    we are! The whole business of sanctification is evidence of our
    relationship with Him (or lack thereof).
    
    	BD�

    I've been meaning to add something in here -- perhaps a slightly
    different way of approaching this.
    
    Christianity, to me, means:
    
    - A new future:  an eternal hope, to spend eternity united with my Lord
    Jesus Christ, with all those who love Him.
    
    - A new present:  no longer living for me, but for Him.  "I am
    crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ
    liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the
    faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."  "And
    that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live
    unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."
    
    - A new past:  This is a real eye-opener.  What makes a person "what
    they are" is the formation as a result of their past.  Many of our
    values and ways of reacting to situations can be seen as a way we have
    been "programmed" by our parents, our "philosophy of life", etc.  Now,
    before coming to Christ, the roots of this "program" go all the way
    back to the fallen Adam.  But, when we came to Christ, we received not
    only forgiveness for sin, but His life.  His life didn't begin at His
    incarnation, or at His resurrection -- His life is eternal (which not
    only in the time to come, but in time past as well).  What "a new past"
    means for us is that we are no longer bound to the "old program", the
    old ways of reacting which exhibit the fruit of the flesh.  We can now
    live in the life of Christ, and our lives can exhibit the fruit of His
    life.  "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of
    the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in
    love:" (Eph 1:4).
    
    Mark L.

    Barry,
    
    thanks for your reply. In that moment where we say 'Yes, Jesus! Come
    into my life.' He will start to change our live. And HE is very
    carefully and lovely. He demonstrated it in a lot of situations written
    down in the gospels. HE wants us to act in the same way. HE gives us
    the power with HIS Holy Spirit, when we start to follow him.
    
        -Wilfried- 

Christianity means God reaching down to man so that man might be restored
to divine life and comm/union with God, so that we might be true children
of God, sharing in his divine nature and his very life.  Note that unlike
every other religion, Christianity is not man reaching out to God, but God
reaching out to man.  Through Christ's incarnation, divinity and humanity
were bridged -- what was previously only divine became fully human as well,
so that that  which is only human might become divine as well.  Through
Christ's sacrificial death, the Enemy's power over sin and death are
destroyed, our sins are washed away, and we are restored into a relationship
Adam and Eve had with God at first.  By Christ's Resurrection, we are brought 
into the fullness of divine life, and we acquire an eternal inheritance and 
eternal life with God.

Christianity means being freedom from the kingdom of darkness, into the
wonderful light of the Son (cf. 1 Peter 2:9).  It means now being part of
God's people, born into God's family and given power to become children of God
and heirs to His promise. It means that by sharing in his death, we also
share in his life and in his glory (cf. Romans 6:5).  It means being made
into the image of God, perfected, purified, made holy, and glorified.  It
means being freed from  the  power  of sin and death, and receiving God's
peace, which passes all understanding; it means being slaves to Christ
instead of slaves to sin (cf. Romans 6:22).  It means having access to God,
having a perfect mediator for us before the Father so that we might have 
forgiveness, having an Advocate and a Counselor.  It means an indwelling of 
God now within us, the power of the Holy Spirit, and hence an immediate share 
in eternal life, joy, peace, and holiness.

Some in previous notes have identified the meaning of Christianity as a
personal relationship with Jesus.  While this is a most consoling aspect of
spirituality, and a great benefit we receive by our redemption, Scripture
does not identify it as the central meaning of the Christian faith -- in
fact Scripture does not even explicitly mention the concept at all.  Thus I
have chosen to present a Scriptural explanation of the meaning of the
Christian faith.  After all, I can have a personal relationship with my co-
worker, but my co-worker cannot offer me forgiveness of sins, redemption,
the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Resurrection, and eternal life.

"Praised be the God and Father
of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who has bestowed on us in Christ
every spiritual blessing in the heavens.

God chose us in him
before the world began
to be holy
and blameless in his sight.

He predestined us
to be his adopted sons through Jesus Christ,
such was his will and pleasure,
that all might praise the glorious favor
he has bestowed on us in his beloved.

In him and through his blood, we have been redeemd,
and our sin forgiven,
so immeasurably generous
is God's favor to us.

God has given us the wisdom
to understand fully the mystery,
the plan he was pleased to decree in Christ.

A plan to be carried out
in Christ, in the fullness of time,
to bring all things into one in him,
in the heavens and on earth."  (Ephesians 1:3-10)

Eric

>    - A new past:  This is a real eye-opener.  What makes a person "what
>    they are" is the formation as a result of their past.  Many of our
>    values and ways of reacting to situations can be seen as a way we have
>    been "programmed" by our parents, our "philosophy of life", etc.  Now,
    >    before coming to Christ, the roots of this "program" go all the way
>    back to the fallen Adam.  But, when we came to Christ, we received not
>    only forgiveness for sin, but His life.  His life didn't begin at His
>    incarnation, or at His resurrection -- His life is eternal (which not
>    only in the time to come, but in time past as well).  What "a new past"
>    means for us is that we are no longer bound to the "old program", the
>    old ways of reacting which exhibit the fruit of the flesh.  We can now
>    live in the life of Christ, and our lives can exhibit the fruit of His
>    life.  "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of
>    the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in
>    love:" (Eph 1:4).
    
    This really stood out for me and was worth repeating. :-)

Lots of good and worthy things have been said in this topic.  I've enjoyed
reading all the perspectives.  

First and foremost, Christianity is to believe that God Himself, in the
form of Y'Shua - miracuously born in Bethlehem, of the lineage of David,
is the Messiah, the annointed one promised in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible or O.T.)
who will redeem and deliver us into freedom from all that is corrupted
and wrong, deliver us from the power of death, and bring us into a new,
pure, and holy relationship with Himself and with each other.  

There are lots of thing that surround that central core, and that radiate
out from that foundation.  I could go on for pages and pages and pages,
but I'll just say that knowing what God has already done gives me an 
unshakeable faith in what He has promised for the future, and gives me
the courage to make my heart vulnerable today by opening it up to people 
and caring, knowing that no hurt can come to me that is beyond God's power 
to heal.  

Does it seem odd that I can say even in the midst of the storms of my own 
emotions -- even when I feel anger, pain, and fear -- there is an inner 
fortress of peace and joy where God shields, protects, calms, and nurtures me ? 
And yet it is true.  

        "For I AM mindful of the plans I have made concerning you,"
         declares the Lord, "plans for your welfare, not for disaster,
         to give you a hopeful future.  When you call Me, and come and 
         and pray to Me, I will give heed to you.  You will search for
         me and find Me, if only you seek Me wholeheartedly.  I will
         be at hand for you," declares the Lord, "and I will restore
         your fortunes."  Jeremiah 29:11-14
           
           
Leslie

    Truth.
    
    The person of Christ
    
    Hope.
    
    (I'm trying for one-word answers - each could be a book...)
    
    Love - serving others.
    
    Knowledge of God
    
    - Don Randall