Conference yukon::christian_v7

>is it the interpretation of the message received or the intention 
>behind the message sent that God would take when deciding whether
>we lied or not?

Jesus said:
John 17:17  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Interpretation won't cut it.  (See "The Lessons from the Well" topic.)
The Jews had the best "interpretation" of scripture, but Jesus emphasized
that the true worshipper of the Father would worship Him in spirit and
in truth.  

The true intent of the message is the plumb line, and the reason we
struggle so much in making sure we understand it as best we can, with a
plethora of "other truths" vying for our acceptance.

Jesus makes it clear that God's Word is the truth of the matter.
Sometimes we get caught up in "interpreting the message" but in
most cases, we don't disagree as much as our language seems to indicate.

God gave the Ten Commandments to help us understand the transcendant and
overarching singular law:

  Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all 
  your strength and all your heart.   (close paraphrase)

Many people would have had trouble with interpreting what loving God
means.  I don't think Adam had a problem with it before the fall.
The Ten Commandments codified the law of love, and the law was given
to help define what you should be doing in your heart attitudes.
It was never meant to make anyone righteous, because that MUST occur
on the inside and not outside acts.

We've polluted the truth in many ways and many directions.  God makes it
simple; a simple truth that takes everything you have to obey it.

Mark

    I don't think Chele was referring to our interpretation of the
    Scriptures, but rather a matter of something "you" (generic) said being
    misinterpreted by the recipient, and the misinterpreted "version" of
    what "you" said "creates" a lie.

    First, I think we should seek to be clear in our communications.  "So
    likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood,
    how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air"
    (1 Cor. 14:9)  But, there is a real possibility that something we say
    might be misunderstood by a listener (or a third party that might
    "hear" a slightly different version that what was originally said).

    I don't believe that the Lord will hold it against us if someone
    misinterprets what we say, as long as our intention was to communicate
    what was the truth.  (However, if we intentionally speak something that
    is ambiguous with the intention of allowing multiple interpretations, so
    that we can defend ourselves by saying "I didn't mean that...", we are
    guilty of deceit.)  I believe that the more likely point of guilt lies
    in one who slanders the original speaker by making accusation of lies. 
    It is interesting that following Scriptural injunction in such a case
    would remedy the entire situation: "Moreover if thy brother shall
    trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him
    alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother."
    (Matt 18:15)  If you think someone lied, you should approach them about
    it.  If the apparent "lie" was a misinterpretation, the matter will
    probably be cleared.  If there *was* a lie, either the liar will admit
    and repent, or the continuing verses in Matt. 18 should be followed.

    Mark L.

Thanks for clearing up my misinterpretation, Markel.  :-)

Of course, outside of the context of the base note, .1 is still
a good way to go.  


John 17:17  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    After reading the base note the two subsequent entries, I'd say they
    both apply.
    
    Many people read the Bible and do exactly that... interpret instead of
    listening to the interpreter.  They change the truth of God into a lie'
    
    How many times in my marriage, did I say something to my ex-husband and
    he interpreted it completely different that what was supposed to be the
    intended meaning?   How often in here does that happen?
    
    The truth is perception and judgement is based on our own personal
    experiences whatever they may be.  And for some you can throw the Bible
    into correct some perceptions, but cloud others as we war against the
    old and new flesh.
    
    Perception = vision or how one sees the whole
    Deception =  lack of vision or how one sees self
    
    The deceptive individual always look for hidden meanings in everyone
    elses conversation.  Therefore, often mistaking how or what is actually
    being said.  This happens also with the perceptive person, but for
    different reasons... because of their own personal biases and
    experiences.
    
    Communication at best is difficult.  But it doesn't have to stay
    difficult.  I'm learning that *good* communication oftimes means *risk*
    from our comfort zones.  How?
    
    With a spouse, you really want to tell your spouse that you're lonely
    [because he/she works all the time], but instead of saying lonely
    [which is a risk word], we criticize the job of our mates.  And what
    usually happens is an argument ensues over the *valuing* the job.  When
    really the issue was, "I feel neglected and lonely."
    
    Nancy
    
    
    
    

    Re: Note 324.1 by TOKNOW::METCALFE
    
    As long as we're correcting Mark (:-)...
    

�The Jews had the best "interpretation" of scripture,...
    
    I disagree. The best interpretation of Scripture is the correct
    interpretation. The Jews (collectively) did not have the correct
    interpretation, therefore it was not the best.
    
    	BD�

    Barry,
    
    Are you sure you didn't misinterpret what Mark said? :-) :-)
    
    Mark L.

    Mark L,
    
    It's possible - I didn't take the time to read the "Well" notes to get
    the full context. On the other hand, maybe he was being deliberately
    deceptive ;-).
    
    	BD�

I'm sorry, Barry.  Perhaps you can tell me if you still think so after
checking on some of that in note 319.  Specifically, I was referring to 
the following statement by Jesus:

John 4:22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for 
salvation is of the Jews.

And my comments in this string are in the context of these words and the
context of note 319.

But hey, I don't mind being part of the illustration of misinterpreting
someone else, when that someone else is you.  ;-)

Mark

	Today's devotion (My Utmost for His Highest, Oswald Chambers)
	was about not seeking to vindicate oneself.

	This topic reminded me of it, thought the message wasn't just
	about correcting misunderstandings.  It was more on the lines of
	"quit trying so hard to explain yourself".  God knows your intention,
	continue to seek to please him, and don't spend so much energy
	trying to make sure everyone knows why you did something or why
	you said something or what you really meant to say.

	Everyone we talk to has filters that they hear through.  

	Karen

>"quit trying so hard to explain yourself"

What do you mean by that, Karen?  Just joking.  :-)

>God knows your intention, continue to seek to please him,

It's harder for an ENTJ than for some other temperaments, but I am trying;
and I mean attempting, and not troublesome, but filters being what they
are, and the many facets of the English language...  ;-)

Mark

	Markem,

	My explanations are usually more confusing than my first
	attempt... so I'll find Oswald's advice easy to follow ;-)

Smiles from me, kiddo.  

    Re: .0  Gee thanks Steve...
    Re: .2  Markel(?), It was Stevo not Chele...
    
    I think that telling somebody something without *knowing* whether it
    can be misinterpreted (due to different language or experience) is bad.
    
    James

"Decision determines direction.  Direction determines destiny." - Howard
Hendricks.

1. Do you have a heart open to correction?

2. Do you cherish your opinions more than God's Word?

3. Are you of the opinion that you were born a {insert denomination} and will
   die a {insert denomination}?

4. Do you cherish your traditions more than the truth, even if they conflict
   with the truth?

5. Do you rationalize your not obeying the truth?

6. Do you get mad at the delivery person or God's messenger?

7. Do you tolerate falsehood of any kind?  (cf. 2 John, 3 John)

8. Do you compromise the truth? (cf. 2 John, 3 John)

9. Do you think unity and peace are more important than truth?
   (cf. Ephesians 4:21, John 14:6)

10. Would you leave everything (church, job, friends, family, etc.) in pursuit
    of the truth?

Absence of desire for truth is evidence of a lost condition.  Desensitizing
yourself to truth upon exposure to God's truth is rejecting God.