| Hi Greg,
I have been puzzling over this one for some years also, particularly in
connection with Hebrews 4:12 :
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any
twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and
spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the
thoughts and intents of the heart."
The distinction between soul and spirit suggest to me a discerning between
what is of 'me', and what is an outside suggestion. An urgiung to
awareness to accept the good and reject the evil, as in
2 Corinthians 10:5 :
"take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
We are supposed to recognise that every passing thought or idea is not
necessarily 'from us', but needs to be tested before it is accepted; before
it is allowed to become part of 'me' - which it can do if I choose to let
it.
I know 'soul' is often placed at the level of the mind, but there is
something deeper than that, of which the mind is the tip of the iceberg.
There is also a dangerous tendency to characterise the body as 'evil
flesh', with appetites to be quenched by subjection. Generally appetites
are good, and indicate when we have a genuine physical need. They are part
of the body system which God created in us so that we function properly.
There was a problem where people thought of everything physical as 'evil',
and everything spiritual as 'good', to the extent that they claimed jesus
could not have had a proper physical body with appetites (guarded against
in 1 John 4:2). I believe that is the sort of danger that man's fallen
reason is liable to extrapolate into.
Similarly, I would be careful about taking specific historical events, and
flagging them with a typological key, as in the trees...
� God banished the couple from the garden of Eden, and put an angel to block
� the path to the tree of life. As they were, they could not really be
� God-conscious. As such, they could not be God-centered. The ability to
� eat from the tree of life was removed.
The reason Adam and Eve were not permitted to eat from the tree of life
was because having sinned, entry to eternity would permanently doom them.
The fruit of the tree of life would have damned all of mankind, once he had
sinned. So God excluded them from its presence. When the day of salvation
by faith is complete, the fruit of the treelof life is once more available.
In the millennium, in Ezekiel 47:12, and in eternity - Revelation 22:2
At least, that is my understanding of this...
Thanks for opening this one up. It's a fascinating area....
I haven't come across the books you mentioned - in fact I have only even
heard of one of the authors...
Andrew
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Hi Bro,
One of the major problems in the Bible
is that various translations have a tendancy to substitute what-
ever word the translator wants for the word psuche, or soul.
You will see in its place words such as "life", "heart", "soul",
and "mind". Obviously, they are not all the same thing! An
example was evident where we saw Heb. 12:3, and it talks about
fainting in the psukais. Well, the right translation is "soul".
Yet... we see that the characteristics of the soulish man is
not good!!! Esau/Ishmael/Cain were very soulish. Also, the
word of God says that the heart of man is deceptively wicked.
So, there has to be a _conversion_ of the soul. "Receive with
meekness the engrafted word which is able to save your soul."
Also, "in your patience, posess ye your souls". Well... patience
in the Greek is 'hupomone' which really means consistency.
Engrafted is 'emphutos' which means to grow up or to germinate
from a fixed position. Thus, it is really a growth process
much like a seed.
To further complicate the issue, there are places
in the Bible where the word "life", could actually be "psuche" or
"zoe". Zoe, meaning spiritual life. Psuche, meaning soulical life.
For instance, "he that lays down his life shall find it", uses the
word "psuche". Whereas, "I am come that they might have life,
and have it more abundantly", (John 10:10), is talking about zoe.
John 6:63, "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and
they are life", is once again "zoe".
The concept of a saving process for the soul is
indicated in Heb. 10:38, "But we are not of them who draw back
unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the
psuche". ( BTW, the words, "whom the Lord loves, he also
chastises", from Heb. 12 - the word for chastise is also inter-
preted as _teaches_ ). Once again, a growth process.
Remember the guy that Paul turned over to Satan
for the destruction of the flesh? Well... it was so that his
spirit could be saved. Sometimes, when a person is in rebellion
for an elongated period of time, and refuses correction, teaching,
etc. and hardens themself in their sin, that happens. But...
the saving is of the spirit.
When a person becomes born-again, their spirit
takes on the nature of God, "the divine nature", ( 2 Peter 1:4 ).
Does the person immediately have a perfect soul? No. It has to
grow up into the fullness of Christ. Remember what the Word of
God says in Luke 17, "the kingdom of God is within you"? Well,
God takes up residency inside of the spirit of the person and
the communication between man and God takes place there in the
spirit because "God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must
worship Him in spirit, and in truth", ( John 4:24 ). Well...
the person becomes a micro-replication of the Kingdom.
What?!! "a micro-replication? are you off your
rocker, Greg?! No. Unto us are given exceeding great promises.
If you do a study of what we are in Christ Jesus, get an idea of
what the authority of the believer is, you will see some amazing
revelations of _who_ we are in Him. For instance, "the righteous-
ness of God in Christ Jesus", "hid in Christ", "raised up and
seated in heavenly places", "new creations in Christ Jesus",
"elect", "redeemed", "now are ye light in the Lord!" "Crucified
in Christ", "living by faith in Christ Jesus". Its a whole large
study in itself.... Is this huge inheritance in the realm of
the flesh, soul or spirit? Obviously, it is in the spirit.
The first man Adam was made a living soul ( psuche ), the last
Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first
which is spiritual ( pneumatikos ), but that which is natural
( psuchikos ); and afterward that which is spiritual". ( 1 Cor.15).
"He that has begun a good work within you shall
continue it unto the day of the Lord Jesus Christ". What work
is that? "ye are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto
good works which God foreordained that ye should walk therein".
"For it is God that works within you both to will and to do of
His good pleasure". "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou
mightest prosper and be in health, even as your psuche prospers."
2 Cor.3, "changing into the image of the Lord from glory unto
glory even as by the Spirit of the Lord", - all these demon-
strate a process of changing, a metamorphorsis, and a growth
that is occuring. These all support the notion of a conversion
_process_ that goes on within the soul.
/Greg
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| In actuality, the self *was* crucified at the cross, 2000 (approx.)
years ago. Sometimes it just takes us a while to catch up with what
already happened, or rather, for it to catch up with us. :-)
However, God's intent for us is wonderful indeed. Consider the
possibility:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed
remainethin him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9
As I have said before, I do not believe in a "sinless perfection"
doctrine, that teaches that one "arrives" at some state where it is no
longer possible for him/her to sin. However, I *do* believe that if as
we are walking in the life of the Spirit, we cannot sin. It is only
when we turn from God to self that sin will arise.
God calls us to a life of *enjoyment* with Him. It is a life of
liberty, being set free from sin and self.
Mark L.
|
| .20
> Word directly contradicts that in
> Galatians 5:17c, where it says, "you cannot do those things
> which you please".
....
> I am not going to adulterate the word of God.
Greg,
Be careful not to quote Scripture out of context. either, to suit a view.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of
the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the
flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the
things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
This context in verse 16 CLEARLY says what .11 and .12 have said;
namely, "Love God and do what you please" which is a paraphrase of
"Walk in the Spirit and you will not" be under the law of the flesh.
In other words, if you live by the flesh and do what you please,
you will not be doing what God pleases. But if you live by the Spirit,
and do what you please, then you will be doing what God pleases.
Mark
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