Conference yukon::christian_v7

 

 Hmm..how about quoting the verse?  I don't have an OT with me.





 Jim

    Genesis 3:15  
    
    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and
    between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and 
    thou shalt bruise his heel.
                                                                            
    

	Thanks, Nancy!

	And Jim, you mean to tell me, you haven't memorized the OT yet ???

	;-)

 Re .2 Nancy


 Thanks...that's what I thought

RE:  <<< Note 268.3 by CNTROL::JENNISON "John 3:16 - Your life depends on it!" >>>



.	And Jim, you mean to tell me, you haven't memorized the OT yet ???


  I'm workin' on it..just haven't got that far yet :-)

    Gen. 3:15 -- a few thoughts off the top of my head --
    
    It is the first evangelical promise (Messianic prophecy) of the Bible
    -- there's some impressive theological term for it, but I don't
    remember what it is. :-)  Interesting thought -- the seed of the woman
    (not Adam's seed -- since Jesus was not born from Adam's seed) would
    deal the fatal blow to the serpent/enemy.  The seed of the woman
    (Christ) would deliver this fatal blow, being "wounded" (bruised heel)
    in the process (Christ's suffering on the cross).
    
    Well, that's about all I have time for at this point.
    
    Mark L.

 Thanks, Markel....took the words right out of my mou..uh, keyboard.
 I have a tape at home somewhere by the pastor of a church I went to
 in Colorado that was based on this passage.  Sent chills up my spine
 when I heard it about 10-12 years ago and still does..





 Jim

	So,
	
	The seed of the woman = Jesus
	the woman = Mary
	the serpent = Satan

	I get the "he shall bruise your head", but what is the significance
	of "and you shall bruise his heel"  ?

	Karen

    bruised heel = a non-fatal wound (after all, Christ rose again). 
    However, in Rev. 5 He is still seen as a Lamb that had been slain.
    
    I just remembered -- Gen 3:15 is referred to as (I think)the
    proto-evangelicum.  Now, with that, you can really impress someone! :-)
    
    Mark L.

Genesis 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between
thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his
heel.

Her seed (it, Christ) shall bruise thy (the serpent, Satan) head and utterly 
destroy him, and thou (the serpent, Satan) shalt bruise his (Christ's) heel
inflicting temporary sufferings on the Messiah.

Bruising the head is a fatal blow and bruising the heel is not.

Would you like Scripture cross references?

Now, I'll throw out an interesting thought:  Why is it *her* seed,
when I thought seed more often (but probably not always) referred to
the male's seed implanted inthe woman?

Mark

    Mark,
    
    I've always asked that same question, but no-one has even come close to
    satisfying the answer...
    
    Nancy

    Re "Seed"
    
    I haven't studied it (yet :-), but I always assumed that the "Seed" was
    another term for "Offspring". In other words, the Seed of the woman was
    Eve's (eventual) offspring, viz. Jesus. Since He was conceived by the
    Holy Spirit, Jesus is not man's seed at all - He came as a direct
    miracle between God and woman. After all, not only is the seed the
    thing that produces the fruit, but it is also produced *by* the fruit
    after it matures.
    
    An alternative (again without a study) would be to see "Seed" as a
    metaphor for "source". In that light, the Seed of the woman is the
    source (... of life, etc.)
    
    	BD�

    
    The woman is the seed and the man is the fertilizer... however, Seed is
    oftimes referred to as the man for it is his blood that is carried
    through to the child.
    
    Nancy... just thinking
    

    wow, learn something new everyday!

    Shut up Mike!
    
    :-)

    -1
     
    Oh...... Mikey you're in big trouble!  Wait, just wait til your seed
    gets home! 
    
    Nancy :-)

    My seeds never leave without me!

    Seed = Father [in my note]
    
    Nancy :-)

.12 is correct -- seed is quite commonly used in the Bible to mean offspring.
    It is also used to mean semen, but more commonly, it is offspring.  I
    grew up frequently singing the Magnificat, which, in Luke 2:54-55 has
    "He remembering his mercy hath holpen his servant Israel; as he promised
     to our forefathers, Abraham and his seed, for ever."

re .6: Jesus was Adam's seed and Abraham's seed but not Joseph's seed.
    We are all both Adam's and Eve's seed.  But your point that it is
    the woman's seed in the Messianic prophecy does not go unnoticed by
    people looking for Marian prophecies in the OT as well.

/john

What happens when I go home...!  Not left me much to say either, except to 
ask Jim if he's learning the cross-references as well (.5 ;-)

re .9 - I've heard it referred to as the proto-evangelicum, also, but find 
	it easier to translate this to 'the first gospel'...

I'm with John in .21 on this one -
	Seed = offspring, the 'her' hinting at the virgin birth. 

I understand the 'thee' as referring to satan (as being expressed through 
the serpent), rather than implying that women would not like snakes (which 
I have heard assumed).  The problem of the seed of the serpent (as satan 
has no spirit offspring),  I would take to mean those who inherit his 
spirit, or any demonic expression.

I understand that the phrase "I have gotten a man from the LORD", in 
Genesis 4:1 implies that in Eve's excitment at her first child, she assumed 
that this was the promised deliverer.  In fact, Cain turned out to be 
somewhat different, as we know...


							Andrew

       <<< Note 268.21 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>

>re .6: Jesus was Adam's seed and Abraham's seed but not Joseph's seed.
>    We are all both Adam's and Eve's seed.  But your point that it is

john or anyone else,

I have been meaning to look this up.  I know well that Genesis says that
Adam and Eve were created, but is there anywhere that it says that they
were the only humans created, or alternatively, that the above is true?

I know, I need to get the on-line scripture going, but haven't yet.
Soon.

Lew

Hi Lew, re 268.23 :

� I have been meaning to look this up.  I know well that Genesis says that
� Adam and Eve were created, but is there anywhere that it says that they
� were the only humans created....

Genesis 3:20 says :
"Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living"

Then, we have the verses which refer to our inheritance through Adam, as:

Romans 5:14 :
 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death
  through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned -
  for before the law was given, sin was in the world.  But sin is not taken
  into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the
  time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by
  breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the One to come."

ie, All men inherit death from their common ancestor, Adam, who received 
    death through sin.

1 Corinthians 15:22 :
 "As in Adam, all die, so in Christ willall be made alive"
  - refers to the consequence mentioned in Romans 5:14, but continues, to 
    indicate the life availebl for those who are born in Christ.

Also echoed in 1 Corinthians 15:45 :
 "The first man, Adam becamse a living being, the last Adam, a life-giving 
  spirit."

1 Timothy 2:13-14
 "...Adam was formed first, then Eve.  And Adam was not the one deceived, 
  it was the woman who was deceived..."

This verse underlines the relevance to us of the order of creation (in 
terms of specific roles), indicating that our common descent is affected by 
the order of the fall.

�>re .6: Jesus was Adam's seed and Abraham's seed but not Joseph's seed.
�>    We are all both Adam's and Eve's seed.  But your point that it is

� I have been meaning to look this up.  .....
� ... the only humans created, or alternatively, that the above is true?

Were you meaning to check on Jesus' line here? - as recorded in Luke 
3:23-38? (Abraham, verse 34, Adam, verse 38).

If you mean about Jesus not being Joseph's son, we've discussed that before 
 - I can look up where if you like, but apart from the straightforward 
record of the gospels, Joseph was descended from Jehioakin, who is 
proscribed, with all of his descendent blood-line in Jeremiah 22:24-30.

Hope this helps some...

						God bless
							Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Not really checking anything except the clarity of Adam and Eve's
position.  Your first references seem quite definitive.  I just
hadn't ever checked before to know whether it was said outright,
implied, or just not there.  Now I know and it's much easier.
No reason to speculate.

Lew

Hi Lew,

No problem - good to make sure!

							Andrew

    
    			Head is a symbol of authority.  Jesus bruised 
    	the head / crushed the authority of the devil at the cross.  
    
    			Bruised heel refers to Jesus feet being
    	pierced on his feet at the cross. 
    
    			The result: "For this reason was the Son 
    	of God manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil."  
    	And, "For this reason was the Son of God manifested, that He might
    	destroy him who had the power (authority) of death, even the
    	devil."  
    
    		Jesus went to hell, took the keys ( another authority
    	symbol ), ( see Rev. 1:17,18, "I have the keys of hell and death" ),
    	and completely _plundered_ the devil "making an open show of it".
    
    						Praise God!!!!
    
    					  			/Greg