Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Jeff,

    There are a number of things that will discourage animals from coming
    on your property.  I've heard that sprinkling red cayenne powder in
    areas that they like to sniff around can be a very good deterrent. 
    There are other things sold specifically for the purpose of keeping
    animals away. The conference 12DOT2::HOME_WORK has a number of
    suggestions (notes 2463, 4622, 3595 for starters).  I think that's
    where I saw the red pepper suggestion.  I've heard that the FELINE
    conference may also yield some suggestions.

    Mark L.

    
    Mark,
    
    I've tried a number of things.  Let's not focus on more types of
    remedies and assume that I've done all that I could reasonably do.
    
    Now, what should I do?  What would Jesus do?
    
    jeff

    Jeff,
      Is the dog friendly? Can you catch him and maybe tie him up near your
    neighbor's yard? Or perhaps catch him and take him to an animal
    shelter?
    
    If not, I like the cayenne trick. Maybe sprinkle the animal with water
    when you can. How about putting up a fence (oohh symbolism) between
    you and your neighbor?  Otherwise, I would use a single action high
    powered .22 cal mag rifle. (Just kidding, I love animals too much...)
    
    Try the cayenne first.
      PDM

    <<< Note 217.2 by USAT05::BENSON "God's Love's Still Changing Hearts" >>>

    
    
    ! Now, what should I do?  What would Jesus do?
    	A bruised reed he would not break.
    
    PDM
    
    p.s. I understand heaven may have some animals. They would be all very
         well behaved animals. Maybe in a few yesrs you can move there.
         Very peaceful they tell me 8^)
    

    RE:Jeff,
     

    I had to put up with a neighbor's dog that would attack me in my own yard,
    some years ago in town I use to live in. My only solution that I could
    come up with was to put it into God's own hands. Well, the dog eventually 
    mellowed out and no longer was a problem for me. 

    BTW, the same family had kids that made the dog issue seem mild. I went to
    the same place for help and God worked it out. 

    Let God do it for you. You just got to trust Him.

     Jim

    There are passages in the Old Testament that deal with a responsibility
    toward a neighbor's animals.  I haven't been able to find exactly the
    passage I want.  Ex. 22 has some relevance.  Of course, in these cases,
    the passage assumes that the "neighbor" is under the same
    responsibility as you are, and there are specifices dealing with
    allowing your animal to damage another's property.
    
    Although the "law of the land" would allow you to kill animals on your
    property, I don't believe that it is a good Christian witness to kill
    your neighbor's pets.  We need to respect others' property, even if
    they are not reciprocating toward us.
    
    Mark L.

    
    
    Jeff,
    
      If you believe that you have addressed this issue adequately with
    your neighbors, then I would suggest that you have one more discussion
    with them informing them that you are considering shooting the dog.
    
     Then see if there is a more proactive response.
    
    Yak

    Hi Jeff,
    
    I think the L-rd would find some way to turn your neighbor's
    thoughtlessness and carelessness around into something that produced
    Life in him.
    
    What that is, only He can tell you - and I'm sure He will, because He
    promised if we would seek Him with all our hearts, we'd find Him.
    
    An example that pops to mind might be to share with your neighbor how
    the L-rd is known as the Good Shepherd and that in his discussions with
    the people of His day, He related that He is the kind of Shepherd who
    would leave the flock in the pen and go out to seek and find the one
    that was lost - and use it as an opportunity to explain that the L-rd
    wouldn't want your neighbor to be lost and wandering around in the
    trash cans of this world anymore than he should want his animals doing
    the same - use it to explain that love has limits sometimes, etc. etc.
    
    Just some ideas, but pray about it and let Him tell you.
    
    I think the shooting is too extreme, bro...sorry.  But Romans 8:1 rules
    here my friend.
    
    Pray about it - I'm sure you'll be a blessing to your neighbor.
    
    Take care,
    
    
    Steve

    Hi Jeff!
    
    When I was growing up in the country, the law of the land was if an
    animal came onto your property and threatened your livestock, gardens
    or personal property you shot it.  While we hated losing one of our
    dogs that way, we also understood that Charlie Brown was raiding the
    neighbors hen pens.
    
    Charlie Brown was a great family dog, rode in the back of the pickup,
    ate dogfood out of a can, would sit on your foot just to be close to
    you... but we lost him, he was shot by our neighbor.
    
    But that was *in* the country... it was an unwritten rule, law of the
    land so-to-speak.
    
    I hear what our Brother Steve was saying about making an opportunity to
    witness out of this situation, but it may not be that easy.  After all
    you have already shot the cat and I'm sure they aren't thinking too
    friendly about you right about now, ya think?
    
    I think Jesus would ask them to be good masters, as He has every
    master.  I think he'd ask them to be good neighbors, as he has every
    neighbor [includes ourselves], but I don't think he'd retaliate against
    them with anything more then Words. 
    
    Words that would Glorify his Father and yet not compromise his
    convictions.   
    
    Nancy

    Put up a tombstone that reads:
    
    			R.  I.  P.
    
    	               "Here lies
    	              cold and hard
    	            the last damn dog
     	          that crapped in my yard"
    
    
    
    
    Sorry, the devil made me say that.
    
    8*)
    Richard
    

    Hi Jeff,
    
             I would suggest trying one of the sonic devices that have been
    developed for animal control.  I have heard of it used by joggers, etc. and
    also police.  They are small hand held devices which emmit a high
    frequency sound wave which cannot be heard by humans but are
    uncomfortable for dogs, and cats and such.  It doesn't harm them in any
    way, just makes them want to be some where else!!
             I'm sorry that I don't have a name or somewhere to buy them, I
    will try and find out for you if you would like.  
    
                                        Gil

xi Jeff,

�    Now, what should I do?  What would Jesus do?

Ultimately it's a 'possessions' problem.  What is 'mine' and what is 'his'. 
Jesus 'had nowhere to lay his head' - Matthew 8:20.  Not saying that we / you 
should relinquish your abode, or invite exploitation, but the problem 
didn't arise for Jesus because He didn't reserve territory for Himself.  

That doesn't fit with the way we live.  Neither does it mesh with the 
tribal / family territorial constraints of the O.T., but, if you like, it's 
an extreme application of the New Covenant, for those who can go there.  
But it's Jesus' position.

In the O.T., rules constraining the behaviour of 'owned' animals (as
opposed to wild ones) only touched where they harmed people.  A bull liable 
to kill must be destroyed, and if it isn't, and kills again, the owner 
carries the responsibility for the life lost,so has to die (Exodus 21:28-29).
The rest of the chapter deals with the protection of animals, and liability 
for people hurting them.  It doesn't touch on what they do on your 
territory, but there are implications which could extend.

   ==================================================================

There's a lot of cats in our street.  Each side of us there's houses with
two cats each.  [ We're currently standing in for other neighbours on
vacation, who have 2 cats, 2 guinea-pigs and 2 gerbils ] 

We have rabbits, which are kept enclosed except when supervised.  They 
don't mix with cats, and at times there have been sensitive incidents, 
though there hasn't been any damage.  On one occasion a cat had to be 
discouraged from too intensive attention to a rabbit, and Nicolas went out 
and showed him the red card. [ the ultimate action of the referee, when a 
soccer player infringes the rules, and hss to be sent off the pitch ].  To 
Nic's embarrassment, the next door cat owners (+ their visitors) witnessed 
the whole scene and curled up laughing.  They are soccer enthusiasts.

I appreciated .10, Richard .... especially if it faces over the fence.  And
especially after THE EVENT.  But do you know the *price* of tombstones? 
Our deceased rabbits had to manage without, and I'm not about to dig them
up & see if it made any difference... ;-} 

But Jeff, in case your neighbour's cats don't play soccer, would it be
feasible to get - or at least hire as a temporary resident - some dramatic
enhancement to the domestic scene which would just *love* cats ...
something like a German Shepherd plus, or a bloodhound, equipped with a
profound and equal disregard for red cards and referees?  I think that
then, your feline visitors would more likely get the message than their
owners.  A Boa Constrictor might not go down in the family so well...

Your preference may be not to keep pets.  I feel that way, hating to see 
our rabbits imprisoned, yet knowing they couldn't survive outside...  But I 
also hate to see cats (or anything) tormenting other creatures.

Sorry about the humor, Jeff.  I appreciate that this is a very frustrating,
annoying and wearying situation for you to bear.  Ultimately, I believe it
is a very valid target for prayer support, potentially including witness to
the neighbours, if only by living peaceably under constraints which are
clearly unacceptable to you.  I'll add it to my prayers. 

						God bless
							Andrew

    re: .10
    
    Smiley aside, Richard, do you think that entry was helpful?  Jeff
    obviously is concerned about this problem, and moreso, about the effect
    his response will have on the name of the L-rd in his neighbor's eyes. 
    
    There's a time and place for everything.
    
    >Sorry, the devil made me say that.
    
    Interesting.
    
    Steve

    Consider me duly chastized, Steverino.
    
    I guess I'm not one of those sensitive '90's kind of guys after all.
    
    Richard
    

    Jeff:
    
    It seems to me that the best place to hit them is in their wallet. 
    After the incident with the cat injury and gun, it appears these
    neighbors don't really care about their pets.  Otherwise they would
    have changed their habits.
    
    If you bring them to the pound, do the owners have to bail them out? 
    If so, I would make every effort to bring those animals to the pound,
    each and every time they stepped on my yard.  There is nothing 
    bad about this at all.  In fact, I knew a guy with a similar problem.
    He took the dog to the animal rescue league...an hour away from his
    house!  That put a halt to it reeeeel quick.
    
    -Jack
         

    A few thoughts I've had on this issue.  I'm sorry for not being able to
    provide references and possible exact quotes, but my usual system (with
    the concordance) is down.  A couple of Scriptures to consider go
    something along the lines of:
    
    "...as much as in you is, live peaceably with all men"
    
    "Pursue peace with all men..." (Heb 12, I think).
    
    What would Jesus do?  "Blessed are the peacemakers...."  I don't
    believe that Jesus would do something that would ignite a fire between
    neighbors.  (Note -- sometimes Jesus did ignite some fires, but that
    was for His standing for and proclaming what His Father wanted.)  The
    principle of the New Testament is to seek to be at peace with all men. 
    Now, I realize that there are some people with whom this is impossible
    because of their ire, etc.  But, the Scriptures say that if there *is*
    a lack of peace, to be certain that it is the "fault" of the other
    party, and not ours.
    
    Jeff, whatever your actions, seek a peaceful solotion.
    
    Mark L.

    Mark:
    
    I agree with the passage regarding peace.
    
    It is quite apparent the neighbor is the antagonist in this little
    saga.  Why does God give a porcupine needles?  Why does he give skunks
    the spray odor?
    
    These neighbors need to learn their limits.  Jesus also inferred that
    sometimes the only way to peace is by the sword.
    Bring them to the pound!!
    
    Peace,
    
    -Jack
    

    
    Thanks all, I appreciate your responses.  Please, if there are others,
    feel free to continue to participate as I will be watching.
    
    I'll update you as the saga unfolds.
    
    thanks!
    jb

    
    
    So JB can you shed some light on what's been happening????
    
    

Dan,
  Did you give Jeff my suggestions?  ;-)

MM

    
    Yes I did , maybe you should enter them in here so we all can see.

I think discretion (not always my best suit) is the better part of 
valor in this case, Dan.  While I would suggest things, I wouldn't 
REALLY suggest implementing them, if you know what I mean.