Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Using tracts is an excellent method in certain situations.  And even if
    you don't use them while sharing the gospel, they present the gospel
    clearly, maybe you should get one that is comfortable for you and for
    your audience and memorize it.
    
    jeff

Jim,

� but when it comes to sharing the gospel I get all fouled up and forget
� scriptures that otherwise are in my mind most all of the time.  I had
� 2 perfect opportunities recently and fumbled the ball, and decided that
� I'm not going to let that happen again.

That's what it takes to make one realise how critical it is to know the
Word.  Because of that experience, when you read, different passages light
up as important to your heart, and you will remember when next you're faced
with the situation.  It's a growing process. 

We keep on making mistakes, not remembering all we would like to etc 
(there's just so much Bible to remember for instant recall ;-), but the 
burden for souls is what it takes to make critical passages stick.  And 
give the impetus to learn key 'gospel' verses.

Keep at it, Jim - it's great! - I was out on the doors last night, and met 
some interesting cases...  You never know what's behind the next door.

							Andrew

(I wrote this to another just this morning.)

As for opening eyes, you nor I can do that.  We can only proclaim what
we see is the Truth.  The Holy Spirit does all the work and God gets the
glory.  You know the story about how we sow, plant, and water, but God
makes the plant grow.  God makes wildflowers without any help from farmers.

All we can do is broadcast our seed and God gets the glory.

If these people choose to not accept our truths, then we must give them 
acknowledgement of making an intelligent decision (even though we think it 
is the wrong one).  And on the other side, I would hope that some will 
acknowledge us of making an intelligent decision to hold to the truths
we do. 

Some people do not realize that we can allow them to live with their
[intelligent] decisions [at their peril]; the Truth has been proclaimed.
Yet because we hold a truth that conflicts with theirs, they would claim
that we don't allow them to hold the "truths."  We *can* live with 
conflicting truths without compromising what we believe is the Truth.
We do not need to ramrod the Truth down the throats of people in an effort 
to save them because WE CANNOT SAVE PEOPLE.

Saving is NOT our job.  It is the job of the Holy Spirit.  We only go into
the world and teach all nations, preaching the gospel, and baptize (a voluntary
act) others.  Saving is God's job.
---------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, we don't make converts.  We only "go and teach" (problaim)
and baptize (when someone accepts the teaching from an informed choice).

We simply obey God to do ask He asks.  What does He ask us?

"Love Me first."  then everthing else falls into place.
So THEN we can go and teach, remembering that some will not
accept the teaching, even if it is the Truth.  But it isn't
our job to make them believe, only to present the evidence
as we see it.  The Holy Spirit has a job to do that too many
well-meaning Christians unwittingly usurp.

Be faithful and pure.  You will witness louder than quoting chapter
and verse.

Mark

.We keep on making mistakes, not remembering all we would like to etc 
.(there's just so much Bible to remember for instant recall ;-), but the 
.burden for souls is what it takes to make critical passages stick.  And 
.give the impetus to learn key 'gospel' verses.

 Yep...that's what I am working on, and why I'm getting in the class I'm
 in.  I know the passages, the problem is recalling them when need be.  I
 usually carry around a load of tracts with me also, but usually fumble
 and can't find them either :-/
 

.Keep at it, Jim - it's great! - I was out on the doors last night, and met 
.some interesting cases...  You never know what's behind the next door.


 I've been going on visitation now for several weeks and have shared in
 here some of the experience, and am teamed up with a man who is going to
 be a wonderful trainer.  For the most part I listen during the visits and
 share my testimony where appropriate.


 

 Jim

    I agree that tracts can be a good tool.  When out witnessing, I will
    often use a tract as a means of "introduction", offering one to the
    person, but using it as a "springboard" to try to engage them in a
    conversation in which I can present the gospel as well as listen to
    them (and the Holy Spirit, of course).  If the person does not want to
    talk, the tract may speak to their hearts later (we stamp them with an
    invitation to our Bible study, too).  If they do talk, the tract can
    still be a reinforcement to what was communicated.
    
    I would never replace one (or two) on one speaking to share the gospel
    with pure "tract passing", but tracts do help.
    
    As far as using the Scriptures go, I would say:  don't allow your
    excercise in witnessing to be curtailed due to a perceived lack of
    ability with the Scriptures.  Get a handle on a few key texts
    (Jn. 3:3-7,3:16, Rom 3:23,6:23,10:9, I Cor 15:1-4, Eph 2:1-5,8-9 are a
    few that I find myself using a lot) and use them.  If you cannot
    remember a reference but can quote (or relate the meaning) of other
    verses, do so.  Going out in pairs can also be a help, as your
    "partner" can sometimes fill in the blanks in your memory. :-)  Also,
    going out with a more experienced partner can be a great way to learn
    as well as witness.  (This summer, many of our teens want to be
    involved with the adults in this way.)  Of course, as you gain
    experience and ability with more passages, God can use it.  (But
    sometimes the ability to answer a persons question can lead into a
    diversion from really proclaiming the gospel -- you have to be careful
    not to be sidetracked, while at the same time not ignoring the
    individual's thoughts -- the Lord and Holy Spirit can give wisdom.)
    But I have also heard stories where the Lord has used a single verse
    (John 3:16) to bring men and women to salvation.
    
    Mark L.

    
   Hi,

   I just want to relate an experience that happened to me when I joined 
   the `regulars' at "The Greenery", an extended care facility.  It's
   called "The Greenery" because many of the patients are, to one extent 
   or another, vegetables.  It was a sobering but thrilling experience.
   When I first got there, I looked at these people and all I wanted to 
   was cry.  The reality of their condition was horrifying and I was deeply
   saddened.  I finally retreated to the mens room, looked in the mirror
   and said "What are you doing here?"  I pleaded my helplessness before
   God and told Him  "God, If you have me here for a reason, You're going
   to have to do it because I can't!"  After I regained my composure, I 
   returned to the group and a girl in her 20's started talking to me.  She
   had been in a car accident and had permanent brain damage.  She was also
   Jewish and had never made the connection between the Jewish messiah and
   Jesus.  Her speech was slurred and difficult to understand and she had
   a lot of questions but the Lord was right there with an answer for each
   of them.  She didn't get saved that day but I know a seed was planted. 
   I walked away from there totally amazed at the way God used me to reach
   out to that broken human being.  It gave new (to me) meaning to the 
   scripture "Not by might, nor by power, but by My spirit saith the Lord".
   (I can't remember where it is)  God honors our desire to serve Him coupled
   with our admission of helplessness. "His strength is made perfect in 
   weakness."

   In Christ,
   Dave
    

Hi Mark, 

This is much the pattern we follow.  Latterly, we generally visit a regular
patch, in pairs, to work and get to know the people and their needs, etc.
We'll alternate between dropping in our magazine in most of the patch, and
visiting in rotation about a third at a time., That way you're there enough
to be in touch, but not so much that you're pestering (generally).
Attitudes and responses mature over getting to know people, but also
there's a lot of short term people (my patch is mostly rented 
accomodation).

Sometimes I'll fill in in other patches, and I've had a variety of 
partners.  We would keep to same-sex partners except for married couples, 
because of the inferences other ethnic groups would draw.  

I find door-to-door visitation one of the most fulfilling activities.  
Especially on a 'good' night ;-).

								Andrew

    Thanks for sharing that, Dave.  I have often noticed that I go through
    tremendous warfare (sudden physical tiredness, etc.) before going out
    witnessing, but after being involved spreading "the power of God unto
    salvation", I usually come back feeling great.
    
    The quote you referenced is Zechariah 4:6 "Then he answered and spake
    unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
    Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
    
    Mark L

    Andrew,

    Is "patch" an English term for something?

>Sometimes I'll fill in in other patches, and I've had a variety of 
>partners.  We would keep to same-sex partners except for married couples, 
>because of the inferences other ethnic groups would draw.  

    We aren't quite so "adamant" about same-sex partners.  When going door-
    to-door, we feel it is best to have a mixed pair (i.e., a brother and
    sister -- not necessarily husband and wife) -- for instance, if a woman
    is home alone, a mixed pair entering the home is a much more
    "comfortable" situation from her standpoint, as well as a "safer"
    practice in light of our witness.  As well, in outdoor situations
    (parks, etc.), I find that two men approaching a single woman can be
    intimidating, where a mixed couple can be less "threatening" to the one
    being approached.  If I am out with a sister other than my wife, I am
    very mindful to be very clear in the way I introduce us to the one we
    approach.
    
    Mark L.

Dave,

That reminds me of a single lady (may have been widowed) who lives near my 
parents.  She has adoppted a lot of children in need at different times, 
and by now a lot of them are mature adults.  She shares the LORD with them, 
of course.

One girl she adopted was deaf, dumb and blind, and physically limited in 
other ways.  It was humbling to think how could one possibly share the 
gospel, and how the Holy Spirit alone could make communication real with 
such a person.

Hi Mark,

'patch' is just a word for an area.  I have a couple of streets, with 
mostly apartments.  Old and in need of repair.  Not an affluent area of 
town.

We have a lot of Moslems in Reading.  Enough to need to avoid the
appearence of evil which would be assumed were an unmarried man and woman
to go round the streets together.  We have gone out in mixed pairs in the
past, but you have to know your patch.  Though, come to think of it, my
current partner's wife came round instead when he was busy once.  You have
to suit your approach to the area.  When a lone woman has been interested
enough to be prepared to talk further, I've taken my wife on a further
visit.  But she wouldn't be happy to come on spec on my particular round,
because of the reputation of the area. 

								Andrew

    Hi 'rew
    
    We visit door to door as well... 
    
    I've also hopped fence to fence before... :-)
    
    You see I was inside this fenced yard [the gate was open and when I
    walked through I closed it]... as I was knocking on the door, this BIG
    dog came barking 'round the corner... it scared the  living fire out of
    me and I jumped over the fence into the neighbor's yard... only to see
    another BIG dog and jumped over another fence [actually shimmied is a
    better word] finally to safety... checked the heartbeat, it was going
    rapidly... starting to calm down, when much to my chagrin, my fellow
    door knockers were laughing hysterically at me!  I almost lost my
    Christian cool! :-) :-) :-) :-)
    
    Nancy
    
    

    But on a serious note...
    
    Witnessing should be the first love of the Church [after Christ].  Mark
    has written a good piece in here of knowing when to stop witnessing and
    let God do the reaping of what is sown.
    
    But that does not negate the sowing.  There are many styles of
    witnessing out there, most of which sounds good and valid, but there
    are only two Biblical examples that I can think of:
    
    1.  Confrontational
    2.  By Humility
    
    In #1, you find that witnessing is sharing the Gospel door-to-door,
    vis-a-vis using your *mouth* as the instrument of knowledge.
    
    In #2 you find your *behavior* as the instrument of knowledge.
    
    However, in #2 I only see one area in which God commands or deems it
    appropriate and that is when you have an unsaved spouse.
    
    I hear so much about *lifestyle envangelism*, but I don't see it
    validated in God's word [can someone help?].  But I do see
    door-to-door, and preaching [in many cases street preaching, not just
    in the synogogues or churches].
    
    Yes, live your life as a testimony of Christ, but he who confesses him
    before men, will Jesus confess before the Father.
    
    Your witness without words [at work for instance], is incredibly
    valuable, but again but with the *mouth* confession is made unto
    salvation and with the *heart* man believeth... 
    
    What if you're just too shy to witness, what if the hardest thing for
    you to do is confess with your mouth to someone else [strangers] that
    on day at the name of Jesus ever knee shall bow and every tongue 
    confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?
    
    Jim, what you are doing going out with someone who isn't shy, sharing
    when called upon or led by the Spirit is a great example to those who
    have timidity or shyness as a roadblock.
    
    Remember, God called us *all* to witness regardless of our insecurities
    in this particular area.  And as I've seen several times of late, God's
    first commandment is to *love* Him.  If we love Him, we will do as He
    asks.
    
    In His Love,
    Nancy
    

    Oh yeah an addendum...
    
    It's funny once you start witnessing, all of a sudden you become
    accountable for behavior... sorta like you never had before.
    
    Once you name the name of Christ to folks, they start looking at you
    differently.... I know firsthand... I've seen it happen here at work. 
    Folks who use to be friendly, become distant.  When off color jokes are
    spoken, I've had the respect of a manager to call the person inside and
    shut his door so as to not offend me.  I've also been apologized to for
    language.. and I've recently had someone curse up a blue streak [a
    female] and when I asked to not hear it [kindly mind you], I had
    further obscenities spoken [not at me, but at *my* desk] as the person
    mumbled off away, as though I had been the offensive person.
    
    Somehow, we must just stay focused on our *love* for Him first, and
    somehow these things keep you unmovable... emotionally and Spiritually. 
    He is stable... for God is not the author of fear, but of power and of
    love and of a sound mind.
    
    In Him,
    Nancy

    
    Maybe the title of this topic should be "Evangelizing".  Witnessing may
    include sharing the gospel but I think we are a witness at all times by
    our lives, actions, and fruit born.
    
    jeff

    >Maybe the title of this topic should be "Evangelizing".  Witnessing may
    >include sharing the gospel but I think we are a witness at all
    >times by our lives, actions, and fruit born.
    
    Jeff, I agree with you... we are called to live Holy.  [Thanks Mark for
    starting that note].  We are called to live Holy.. but we are commanded
    to share the Gospel [with our mouths].  And I believe that is the
    correct order in which things are to be.  
    
    Love Me first_follow Me_live holy and share the Gospel.
    
    Now in reverse order... live unholy, then share the Gospel.  Guess
    what!  You won't be doing much to truly witness (or bring others to
    Christ) ... Words without
    holiness are dangerous.
    
    You bring up a good point... is Witnessing different then
    Evangelizing... I don't think so.  This is an Action a verb.
    
    Is being a testimony different then being a witness... No.  This is a
    noun. 
    
    But I believe the two paragraphs above are not the same *things*.
    
    Help me understand differently... if it is different.
    
    Thanks,
    Nancy
    

 I changed the title as that was my original intent of the topic.







Jim

    
.    Jim, what you are doing going out with someone who isn't shy, sharing
.    when called upon or led by the Spirit is a great example to those who
.    have timidity or shyness as a roadblock.
    
     He definitely isn't shy and I suppose one could say that I am at times,
     which is one of the reasons I am getting into this program.  I enjoy
     meeting people and getting acquainted, its taking the steps to get 
     the conversation turned to Christ that I have a rough time with, and
     taking advantage of opportunities that present themselves.

     Attending the church that I do, I've become quite burdened for souls
     and convicted of my need to share the gospel. 






   Jim    

================================================================================
Note 172.12  JULIET::MORALES_NA 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    1.  Confrontational
>    2.  By Humility
>    
>    In #1, you find that witnessing is sharing the Gospel door-to-door,
>    vis-a-vis using your *mouth* as the instrument of knowledge.
>    
>    In #2 you find your *behavior* as the instrument of knowledge.

I hope I wasn't taken to mean that one should be silent and allow only the
lifestyle do thew witnessing.  Not at all.  However, the witness of your mouth
is sharing the gospel door to door, but it is SO MUCH MORE.

The call of the Christian is to go and teach all nations, but in teaching, you
can only present truth, you cannot impart it.  Your word of mouth proclamation
has nothing to do with its application.  We are only instruments of the Holy
Spirit.  In other words, He can do the job with or without us, and we are only
privileged when he chooses to use us.  We are to baptize, too, but this is a
totally voluntary act - we can't hold someone's head under water and say
they've been baptized.

Nothing we do causes anyone to come to Christ, just as nothing we can do can
save us apart from faith alone.  

But why are we then to go and teach if we have no effect?
That's not it at all.  God uses willing servants for His glory,
and to accomplish His purpose.  When we begin to think we have anything
to do with the Master's profit (the increase of the kingdom) we should 
remember Luke 17.

Luke 17
  7  But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say
unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
  8  And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and
gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou
shalt eat and drink?
  9  Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded
him? I trow not.
 10  So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are
commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was
our duty to do.     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We have obedience.  God grows the crop.
    
    Mark M.

    
    interesting, but...
    
    where in scripture are we commanded to go and witness?  i thought
    we were told to be a witness.  there is a difference.  being a 
    witness requires total dedication to a lifestyle of commitment
    to Jesus.  witnessing is something you can turn on and off.
    
    in matt 28:18-20, we are told to go and make disciples of all
    nations...teaching them to obey all that He has commanded.
    
    making disciples is different than making a convert.  a disciple
    would follow your lead, in turn, going and making other disciples.
    a convert often just continues along the path he was already on.
    
    maybe i'm nitpicking, but it seems if we are to make disciples,
    we must change our complete lifestyle, become witnesses to His
    love and salvation and begin a process of creating others who
    will also disciple others who will disciple others who will...
    
    ron rand wrote a little poem in the front of his book, "won by one".
    
    it goes:
    
    if everyone won one,
    and everyone won won one,
    how many would be won
    when everyone won won one?
    
    
    
    just another thought,
    jim.

 And, a good thought at that, Jim..I believe it is crucial that once one is lead
to the Lord that a follow up take place.  Our church, as an example, has a fair-
ly intensive follow-up and disciple ship program, where those who have recently
accpeted Christ are involved in an 8 week Bible study, follow-up visits to their
homes, etc.  

I would (and I'm sure everyone else in here) would hate to see one lead to the 
Lord and then abandoned to fend on their own.





Jim

    When the disciples were sent out, they went to preach (proclaim the
    Truth).  They did not go to show how well they lived.
    
    The KJV says to "Go and teach all nations..." where the NIV says "Go
    and make disciples..."
    
    A person must want to be made a discple; you can't make anyone believe.
    However, while you may impact some people by the life you live, Going
    and Teaching is the proclamation of the truth.  
    
    It doesn't necessarily mean anywhere and everywhere, for I believe that
    there is a time to speak and a time to keep silent, but be sure there
    is a time to speak.
    
    Mark M

    What is that Bible verse that talks about Preaching and the foolishness
    of man???
    
    Does anyone know?
    
    Nancy

    1Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that
        perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the
        power of God.
     19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
        and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
     20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the
        disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom
        of this world?
     21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew
        not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to
        save them that believe.
     22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after
        wisdom:
     23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a
        stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
     24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ
        the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
     25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the
        weakness of God is stronger than men.
    
        
    Mark L.

There were 750,000 young people present today when John Paul II said:

		Do not be afraid to go out on the streets and
		into public places like the first apostles,
		who preached Christ and the good news of
		salvation in the squares of cities, towns,
		and villages.

		This is no time to be ashamed of the Gospel.
		No time!

		It is a time to be proud of the Gospel.
		It is a time to preach it from the rooftops!

How many of them will we see preaching on the streets and in public places?

 A member of our church left a gospel tract along with a tip after eating
 at a Portsmouth, NH restaurant.  The manager of the restaurant called our
 Pastor and read him the riot act about it.




Jim

                     And your pastor's response was?

    Reminds me of when two of our evangelical laymen went to the statue of
    Mary at a local Catholic church here in Santa Clara.  They were
    putting prayers into a container and placing them in the hand of the
    statue.  As they began talking to many of the people asking them about
    their "personal" relationship to God, they found that many felt that
    God was above them and only would be heard through the prayers of the
    saints [I know this is NOT catholic doctrine, it's just what happened]. 
    They went into the church and put in many of pamphlet holders salvation
    tracts!!!
    
    Uh, man was the parish priest mad!!  He even swore at our Pastor.  My
    Pastor then quietly chastised the congregation to use WISDOM when
    passing out tracts. :-)
    
    

>                     And your pastor's response was?




    He got a bunch of us together to go and picket the restaurant and throw
 rocks through the windows.



 actually, he apologized for any offense and stated that the members were 
 genuinely interested in the eternal destination of their waitperson.



Jim

    
    Evangelization......
    
    	You can lead a man to water and you can make him drink
    
    	You just can't make him thirsty.

	I just re-read this string. 

	Lots of good stuff here!

	Karen

    Your comment made me re-read it... I shudder at what I've written. :-)
    That's the difference between IRC and notes... your words are almost
    etched in stone... and I kind of like it because you can be made
    accountable to yourself, others, and see the growth in your own life.
    
    Nancy
    

 In light of an experience earlier this week, I can see I haven't really
 grown a lot in this area :-(





 Jim

    
    	Jimbro, you've grown a lot more than I
    
    	Karen, the chicken-hearted
    

    Awww come on don't beat yourself up folks.  God uses everyone who
    surrenders.  The beauty of the Great Commission, is that God says that
    if you go, He'll give you His power... just remember when take that
    step of faith to confess Christ before men, that you are not alone.
    
    I know that's easy for me to say...:-(  
    
    This past Wednesday we had a missionary from Japan [been on the mission
    field for 18 years] visit our church.  He said something that about had
    me out of my pew;  "The Great Commission is just that, it was NOT the
    Great Suggestion!"
    
    :-)  
    
    Love you guys,
    Nancy

 Last night a friend of mine came over.  He is leaving next week to attend
 Bible college in Chicago (I'm getting he and Markel in touch) and we had
 a nice visit..

 He was telling me about a man with whom he worked.  He (my friend Keith)
 had been sharing Christ with him for quite some time, and then had backed
 off, keeping him in prayer.  About 3 weeks ago the man walked up to Keith
 and said "Hey, how come I don't hear anymore of the 'God stuff' from you
 anymore?"  And Keith replied, "I didn't want to be pushing you, but now
 that you mention it, don't you want to go to Heaven when you did?"  The man
 was an atheist and told Keith that he believed in living life to the fullest
 because "this is it".  When you're dead your dead.  And if there is a 
 Hell, I'll adjust to it..heck, I've adjusted to everything else in life..
 I don't believe any of that "God stuff".

 Two days later the man was with a group of friends bike riding, and decided
 to take a route different than the rest of the group.  Within 2 minutes of
 leaving the group, the man was hit by a truck and killed instantly.

 Keith left my church because he disagreed with our stand on standards
 and on the use of the KJV..but he said one thing he has not found in other
 churches he's attended since, is real concern for winning souls for  
 Christ..

 Evangelism is a commandment "Go ye therefore and teach all nations", one
 in which I need to be more obedient.



Jim