Conference yukon::christian_v7

Ecumenical prayer services are held fairly often, for example, there is
a cycle of healing services for victims of AIDS which moves around between
various different churches in the Boston area.

However, your title says "Mass".

Many ecclesial communities would have significant problems with other
communities (sometimes even within their own communion).

For Roman Catholics, the following two canons apply:

Can. 908 -- It is forbidden for Catholic priests to concelebrate the
Eucharist with priests or ministers of churches or ecclesial communities
which are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Can. 844 �1. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to
Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter
may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due
regard for ��2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and can. 861, �2 [which permits
anyone to administer the sacrament of baptism in cases of necessity].

�2. Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests,
and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is
lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible
to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance,
Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in
whose churches these sacraments are valid.

�3. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance,
Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches
which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on
their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed.  This holds also
for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See
are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these
sacraments are concerned.

�4. If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the
judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic
ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians
who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot
approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it,
provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly
disposed.

�5. For the cases in ��2, 3, and 4, neither the diocesan bishop not the
conference of bishops is to enact general norms except after consultation
with at least the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic
church or community.

	John, I meant srevice. 

Well, if you just mean "service" then few Christian communities would have
a problem getting together.  Of course, a non-Eucharistic prayer service
does not satisfy the Sunday obligation for a Roman Catholic, Eastern
Orthodox, or Anglo-Catholic to attend mass.  An Episcopalian has satisfied
the obligation if he attends a mass at an Anglican church, at an Old
Catholic Church (such as the Polish National Catholic Church or the Old
Catholic Church in Europe; in Europe he can receive, but not in the U.S.
because of women priests), or at a Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox
church (where he won't be permitted to receive).

                        What the Episcopal Church
                           Has Said Officially
                                  About

                             WHO MAY RECEIVE
                              HOLY COMMUNION
                                  IN THE
                             EPISCOPAL CHURCH

                                    by
                      The Rt. Rev. William Wantland
                           Bishop of Eau Claire

A number of questions have been raised recently in regard to the reception of
Communion in the Episcopal Church by non-Episcopalians.  Unfortunately, in
some dioceses, people are being told that "any baptized Christians may receive
Holy Communion."

The 1979 General Convention has laid down clear guidelines, and they are to be
strictly adhered to.  The reason is simple:  The Eucharist is generally
necessary for salvation (BCP p.860; Jn 6:53).  However, anyone who receives
the Sacrament without recognizing the Real Presence of Christ endangers his
or her eternal soul (BCP p.316; I Cor. 11:29).  Hence we must both respect
the consciences of those who do not see the essential nature of the Eucharist,
and protect them (and those who fail to recognize the Real Presence) from
endangering their souls.

We are therefore reminded of the Exhoration in the Prayer Book: "But if we
are to share rightly in the celebration of these holy Mysteries, and be
nourished by that spiritual Food, we must remember the dignity of that holy
Sacrament.  I therefore call upon you to consider how Saint Paul exhorts
all persons to prepare themselves carefully before eating of that Bread and
drinking of that cup.

"For, as the benefit is great, if with penitent hearts and living faith we
receive the holy Sacrament, so is the danger great, if we receive it improperly,
not recognizing the Lord's Body" (pp.316,317).

The guidelines, as duly adopted by General Convention at Denver, are:

  "Resolved by the House of Bishops (the House of Deputies concurring),
  that the following standard be adopted for those of other Churches who
  on occasion desire to receive the Holy Communion in the Episcopal Church:
  
    a. They shall have been baptized with water in the name of the Father,
       and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and shall have previously
       been admitted to the Holy Communion within the Church to which they
       belong.
       
    b. They shall examine their lives, repent of their sins, and be in love
       and charity with all people, as this Church in its catechism (BCP,
       p.860) says is required of all those who come to the Eucharist.
       
    c. They shall approach the Holy Communion as an expression of the Real
       Presence of Jesus Christ whose sacrifice upon the cross was sufficient
       for all mankind.
       
    d. They shall find in this Communion the means to strengthen their life
       within the Christian family `through the forgivenes of (their) sins,
       the strengthening of (their) union with Christ and one another, and
       the foretaste of the heavenly banquet...' (BCP, pp.859-60)
       
    e. Their own consciences must always be respected as must the right of
       their own Church membership to determine the sacramental discipline
       of those who, by their own choice, make that their spiritual home."
       (1979 Journal, p.C-50).
  
  These guidelines, then, tell us that a person may receive the Blessed
  Sacrament only if (1) that person is duly baptized and admitted to
  Communion; (2) has made a proper self-examination and preparation for
  Communion; (3) recognizes the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament;
  (4) sees the Eucharist as a means to strengthening union with Christ,
  forgiveness of sins, and a foretaste of our communion with Christ in
  the life everlasting; and (5) does not violate either the conscience of
  the person receiving Communion or the discipline of his or her Church.
  
  Unless all five of these guidelines are met, a person should not receive
  the Sacrament, and no Episcopalian, lay or clergy, should ever encourage
  any person to receive Communion contrary to the guidelines.  It is
  therefore suggested that at any special service where there might be
  non-Anglicans who might receive Communion, an announcement be made along
  these lines:
       
       "All baptized persons who are admitted to Communion, who recognize
       the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, whose own
       conscience permits, and who are duly prepared to make their
       Communions are invited to receive Holy Communion."

Hi Glen,

To unite in worship would imply a common basis to agree on (like we have 
here...;-).  John has given the Catholic and Hgh Church of England bases 
for celebrating mass together, but I believe you meant a more general idea 
of worshipping together? - would you prefer the title to be 'worshipping 
together' (which is how I've read it), rather than 'attending the same Mass'?

The ultimate *is* the LORD"s supper, or communion - the peak of our 
remembrance of what our unity is based upon, where our new life comes from.

As such, in my church, before the commuinion is celebrated, 1 Corinthians 
11:23-28 is read, to underline that anyone who relies upon the personal 
application of the blood of the LORD Jesus for salvation is welcome to 
participate.  Anyone else is welcomed to observe.  Some people may need to 
refrain because of awareness of sinful attitudes not dealt with before the 
LORD - though I don't think this often happens.  If we come across any 
abstentions amongst members, we'd try to offer assistance ... delicately...

Probably more to the point is, where else could *I* worship and feel at 
home.  Possibly the last clause is optional! 

Generally, wherever the Bible is honoured.  I can - have - joined with
Pentecostals, Brethren, Southern Baptists, and a wide spectrum of similar
very basic Bible believing denominations.  With due respect to John, and
others of his persuasion, I don't feel quite so comfortable in the Church
of England context, partly because they include a lot of things I see as
extras, and partly because I find that salvation is somewhat played down,
so that people can attend and think of themselves as belonging, without 
having a personal relationship with the LORD Jesus.  I don't say that
all are like that, but just my particular experience.  I *have* joined in 
Anglican worship without bending my faith ;-).

I sometimes go to a Church of England, where my mother-in-law has attended 
in recent years, and last year, my wife and I attended a course at an 
Anglical retreat, which we enjoyed very much indeed (apart from one slight 
surprise).

However, while celebrating worship together is great on occasion (I've
*especially* enjoyed getting together with other churches for evangelistic
activities), when it comes to teaching, it would be rather difficult,
because each church needs to teach it's own beliefs in depth, rather than
spend time beating the boundaries with those who see these things
differently.  There's a place for both...  Acceptance of the Bible as a 
basis is the criterion, as it is here!  trouble is, each one understands it 
a different way (even in my church ;-).


						God bless
							Andrew

	Andrew, thanks! That's what I was talking about. :-)



Glen

Good! - I modified the title, in case it might help...

						Andrew

>when it comes to teaching, it would be rather difficult, because each church
>needs to teach it's own beliefs in depth, rather than spend time beating the
>boundaries with those who see these things differently.

Very true.  It's much easier to stay together if we are all Christians,
but what follows is relevant to the topic, although it goes beyond it:

The Gospel reading for yesterday (Easter 5) in the Common Lectionary is
John 14:1-14: ... "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh
unto the Father, but by me." ...

Fr. Liias, preaching yesterday at The Advent on this reading, first pointed
out that it was not politically correct in this day and age, and that we are
seeing people preaching against the gospel from many pulpits, and even
founding "Schools of World Theology", but that these seem to be mostly
staffed by ex-Christians, ex-Moslems, and ex-Buddhists.  When you try to
apply "comparative religion" you end up only "comparatively religious".

/john

The Eucharist is not the only problem for different Christian communities
worshipping together.

There are things in the usage of some communities which others would regard
as idolatry.  The following is a combined Anglican/Roman Catholic/Orthodox
teaching on the subject of the use of images in religious practice:

First, some partial excerpts from the new RC Catechism:

 The first commandment condemns polytheism.  It tells man to not believe in
 other gods but God, to not venerate other divinities than the Unique One.

 Idolatry is not only the false religions of paganism.  It is a constant
 temptation of the faith.  It consists of making divine that which is not
 God, such as power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the State, money, etc.

 Human life is unified in adoration of the Unique One.  The commandment to
 adore the only Saviour simplifies man and saves him from an infinite
 dispersion.  Idolatry is a perversion of the innate religious feeling of
 man.

 The use of images in Christian devotion is not contrary to the commandment
 which proscribes idols.  In effect, "the honor rendered to an image is
 transferred to the original" and "whosoever venerates an image, venerates
 the person depicted".  The honor rendered to holy images is a "respectful
 veneration", not an adoration which is not permitted except to God alone.

The following teaching is from "Anglican-Orthodox Dialogue, The Dublin Agreed
Statement 1984", the chapter on Worship and Tradition; it contains pre-schism
of 1054 teaching common to all of us:

 `In times past, God, without body and form, could in no way be represented.
 But now since God has appeared in flesh and lived among men, I can depict
 that which is visible of God.  I do not venerate matter, but I venerate
 the creator of matter, who became matter for me, who condescended to live
 in matter, and who through matter accomplished my salvation; and I do not
 cease to respect the matter through which my salvation is accomplished.'
 --St. John of Damascus [c.760]

 By the incarnation of the Word who is the image of the Father (2 Cor. 4:4;
 Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3) the image of God in every man is restored and the
 material world itself sanctified and again made capable of mediating the
 divine beauty.  Icons are used as a means of expressing, as far as it
 can be expressed, the glory of God seen in the face of Jesus Christ (2
 Cor. 4:6), and in the faces of his friends.  Icons are words in painting,
 referring to the history of salvation and its manifestation in specific
 persons.  Icons have always been understood as a visible gospel, as a
 testimony to the great things given to us by God the Word incarnate.  In
 the Council of 860 it was stated that `all that is uttered in words written
 in syllables is also proclaimed in the language of colours'.  From this
 perspective icons and Scripture are linked through an inner relationship;
 both coexist in the Church and proclaim the same truths. `Just as in the
 Bible we listen to the word of Christ and are sanctified...in the same way
 through the painted icons we behold the representation of his human form
 ... and are likewise sanctified.' --St. John of Damascus

 An icon is a means of entering into contact with the person or event it
 represents.  It is not an end in itself.  In the words of St. Basil: `The
 honour shown to the icon passes to the prototype'.  It guides us to a
 vision of the divine Kingdom where past, present, and future are one.  It
 makes vivid our faith in the communion of the saints.  In the definition
 of the Seventh Ecumenical Council we read: `The more frequently [icons]
 are seen, the more those who behold them are aroused to remember and desire
 the prototypes and to give them greeting and the veneration and honour; not
 indeed true worship which, according to our faith, is due to God alone.'

 Just as Scripture is understood within the community of faith, so too the
 icon is understood within the same community of faith and worship.  It is
 an essentially liturgical form or art.  In response to the faith and
 prayer of the believers, God, through the icon, bestows his sanctifying
 and healing grace.  Thus the icon serves to promote the communication of
 the gospel and hence its making and use must always be controlled by
 theological criteria.  It is not a random decoration, but an integral
 part of the Church's life and worship.  In this respect its place in the
 Church's worship can be compared with the place of music and chant and
 with the faithful preaching of the word of God.

 In our time, when visual imagery plays a more and more important part in
 people's lives, the tradition of icons has acquired a startling relevance.
 It presents the Church with a new possibility of proclaiming the gospel
 in a society in which language is often devalued.

/john

	Andrew, thanks a bunch! :-)


Glen

    I confess to being a bit preplexed by all the rules and regulations that
    have been quoted to us.  Our church here in the South of France holds a
    variety of joint worship sessions with other churches of all sorts, and
    we all get along fine without hassles, rules or differences.  If
    there's a common approach it's that we come together to worship God,
    to lift up the Name of the Son and to hear the word of God. Differences
    of teaching or catechism disappear - maybe because we've asked God to
    help do exactly that!  And He does!
    
    By way of clarification, I should explain that we're an Anglican (i.e.
    English Episcopalian) church which is "home" to more than two dozen
    nationalities.  The majority of our members are not Anglicans, not
    English, and don't have English as their mother tongue.  Our motto is to
    be "a house of prayer for all the nations", and that includes crossing
    boudaries, emphasising what we have in common with our brothers and
    sisters from other congregations.  Our congregation includes
    expatriate Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, house-church members,
    Catholics, Orthodox - you name it, we've got some.  The common theme is
    that we all proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord!
    
    As far as communion is concerned, the invitation to receive includes
    words to the ffect "we invite all those who acknowledge the Lord Jesus
    and who believe in the Holy Trinity to join with us around this, the
    Lord's table, for it is His table not ours..."  There are problems here
    only if you want to create some. In the words of the song:
    	"Keep your eyes upon Jesus,
    	 Look full in His wonderful face,
    	 And the things of earth will grow strangely dim..."
    
    May the Lord bless you all richly!
    
    Richard.   

Hi Richard,

�    I confess to being a bit perplexed by all the rules and regulations that
�    have been quoted to us.

There have been rather a lot ... ;-)

� "we invite all those who acknowledge the Lord Jesus and who believe in the 
� Holy Trinity to join with us around this, the Lord's table, for it is His
� table not ours..."

Sounds great ... similar to ours in basis, but I find that a mixture of
backgrounds can give a special richness to the fellowship  ... and I'd love
to be there too...  maybe one day !

I believe that essentially it *should* be that simple.  A welcome to the 
LORD's table, not a barrier of men....

							Andrew

      Hi,
    
        I've worshipped at other churches such as Nancy's when I was
        in California and have been blessed.  However, in my case, there
        are often sermons that touch on topics that are simply too 
        specific to the way my denomination believes.  To preach on such
        matters would be inappropriate in interdenominational fellowship.
    
        So, I think it works both ways.  I can worship at other churches,
        but when I seek to worship 'meatier' matters (as I understand the
        'meat' to be) worship accross churches is impossible.  Worship with
        other churches can only remain with the milk of the word (I think).
    
        Ephesians paints true unity as including not being tossed about by
        winds of doctrine.  Truth is what sanctifies and the united church
        is a mature church is a church coming to a clearer and clearer
        knowledge of who God is.
    
                                                     Tony

	Let's build a great cathedral
	For England's rising youth,
	A free and easy temple
	Of undogmatic truth.
	An ark on troubled waters,
	Bearing a motley crew,
	And all denominations
	May walk in two by two.

	All Protestants should welcome
	Our comprehensive plan;
	And those who love to follow
	The merry pipes of Pan.
	No popish ceremonial
	Shall mar its happy birth;
	A rite shall be invented
	Like nothing else on earth.

	There's room for brave agnostic
	For Hindu or Parsee,
	Or devotee of Islam
	(So very C. of E.!),
	And if uniting parties
	At Bishops take offense
	We'll consecrate the ladies
	And take our orders thence!

			circa 1930

From "The Church in Reconstruction" by S.J. Forrest

    Being a little more true to the notes' title.
    
    	I belong to a Missionary Christian Allience church by the name of
    ROCK HILL ALLIENCE CHURCH. We have recently "joined" with the Mission
    Hill Baptist Church, and the two congregation worship together, go on
    retreats together, have baptisims together, the whole nine yards. There
    are no "rules" as to what we should or should not do. What we do is
    worship the Lord together! We are located in Jamaica Plain, Boston,
    Massachusetts.
    
    Donald

	re.13

>	There's room for brave agnostic
>	For Hindu or Parsee,
>	Or devotee of Islam

	The true church of Jesus is by definition "called out" from the rest
of the world. 

ace