Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Hi Rich!  Going by your numbers, the church I currently attend is a
    mega (>2000).  The MOST positive reason is the excellent expository
    teaching we're receiving from the pulpit.  There's no question in my
    mind that this is why this church has quadrupled in size over the last
    5 years.
    
    This is the largest church I've ever attended on a regular basis.  I
    never regularly attended a church over 400 before this.  So naturally,
    my only negative is not getting to know as many people and feeling like
    one big family that small church atmospheres have.
    
    Another problem, that is usually shared by all churches of all sizes,
    is having enough volunteers to handle all the duties of the church
    (i.e., Sunday school teachers, nursery workers, music ministers, etc.).
    
    hope this helps,
    Mike

    I attend a small church of 450, but came from a mega church of 4000. I 
    visit the mega church now and then and vow that I will never return to
    a mega church if I can help it. The small church I attend is in a small
    town. The community is tighter than the big church. Financial difficulties 
    are handled easier in the smaller church and there is less politics 
    involved in getting things done. 

    Jim

 I presently attend a church that has about 350 members.  I'm there because I
 like the preaching and teaching, the fellowship, the sheparding, the soul
 winning focus and the preaching and teaching (or did I say that?).  I
 have attended smaller churches (immediately before this one I briefly attended
 one that had about 30 members)  I believe this is the largest church I have 
 attended, and I believe we are about to embark on major growth.

 I never thought I could be a part of a church of >500 people, but visiting 
 Nancy's church taught me different.


 I find the church I am in now is the one I've been looking for for a long time
 as it appears all of my spiritual needs can be met, as well as there is plenty
 of opportunity for me to serve in various functions.




Jim

    I attend a small church now, with no more than 100 people.  I used to
    belong to a mega church, and found that I got lost in the crowd very
    easily.  Its just more impersonal, to me.  I like the smaller churches
    (of course it depends on the church I guess) because I feel more like a
    part of it.  Its hard to explain, but I don't think I'll ever go back
    to a mega church again.  Its just rush rush rush.
    
    
    Donna

    My church has about 200 families (around 300 to 600 members).  That's 
    as big ours get because when units get much bigger than that they are 
    typically split up into smaller units.  My main reason for going to 
    this unit is because I'm LDS and it's the closest to where I live.
    Typically, an LDS chapel serves a well-defined area.  Usually (not
    always) if you want to attend at a different LDS chapel you move to the
    area it serves.  This is not as much of a problem as it might seem
    because the units are pretty consistent as far as meetings and quality
    of services.  And, typically it's easy to make friends as a newcomer
    (or as a non-member -- perhaps especially as a non-member :)).
    
    Steve

    Praise Time and may as well do it here..
    
    
    We had 3123 people in church last Sunday, 525 people saved, 143
    Baptized !!!!! :-) :-) :-)
    
    You know no matter what size church you go to, the average amount of
    close relationships you'll develop in a church is about 30.  The larger
    the church, the more opportunity to serve.  The part that is so hard
    about being in a large church... is that everybody things everybody
    else is doing the work and therefore the harvest is plenty the workers
    are few [for the amount of work that needs to be done].
    
    We have the same core 300 doing literally every job in the church that
    needs to be done and to be honest we need at least another 200 workers
    to do the job really well!  On Sunday Morning, in Jr. Church for
    instance, we could use at least 5 more workers.  My Sunday School class
    averages 30 girls... and all our classes are that large, we need
    helpers in our classes and we are solo in this effort.  I currently am
    mentoring a woman to become a teacher, and it has been such a blessing
    to have her in there.
    
    I love my large church, I love its vision of growth [we are in the
    midst of a building project], oh yeah, we have only 1 acre of land, and
    no parking at our church.. we shuttle people to church.
    
    We use a local elementary school lunch room for Jr. Church, a local
    Business has given us for $1000 per month a 23,000 square foot building
    for our use.. which is where the parking lot is, and Jr. High school
    gym has been given for our use at no charge... amazing what God is
    doing on 1 acre of land in Santa Clara.
    
    Nancy

    I do not attend church!  I attend a mission where Elaine and I are
    members 19 and 20, but we're up to 29 members now.  What do I like
    about our mission - its size right now and the opportunity to make a
    major contribution.
    
    I have attended all size churches and can feel at home in any size
    congregation.  I guess I prefer the 300-500 level ideally.
    
    jeff

Whew, Jeff...  Thought mine was going to be an odd-ball, thinking mine was 
big...

My church is thought pretty big by UK standards.  We have about 320 
members, but anticipate it growing.  On Sunday morning there was a 
thanksgiving service for 7 new babies.  Not all of them were exactly *new*, 
but they were all under a year old.  And we have a couple more ready-born 
awaiting their slot for a thanksgiving too.  Recently our pastor tried his 
first multi-thanksgiving with two simultaneously, and stalled on one of the 
parent's names, so we were all agog (you know him?) to see what would 
happen this time, but he'd done his homework...

I believe that there's a place for large and small churches.  And even for 
mega...  But each serve a different purpose.  It's tremendous to worship in 
a large congregation together, to benefit from warm ministry, and the 
overflow of the Spirit together.  But also we need to be in situations where 
we can share more personally, where individuals have the opportunity to 
grow etc...  I think you may use adult Sunday School for that (we don't 
have these, but I wish we did.  I've appreciated my experience of them).

We do have our fellowship split down into area groups, which meet in homes, 
and have a fellowship awareness there which helps us to relate in the 
larger context.

Meanwhile, I know of a lot of fellowships over here which are very small - 
less than 20 people, most (if not all) of whom are elderly (even by *my* 
standards ;-), and it's sad to see these struggling.

Most places here would form a daughter church if they got much bigger than 
our's....


								Andrew

    re: .7
    
    	Whoooops.....  you got me.  Ok, ok  WE are the church and we
    	gather together for worship and fellowship.  OK.
    
    	The comments so far have provided a lot of encourgement for
    	me.  I will respond as to why when I have a few free minutes today.
    
    	Thanks all,
    
    	Rich

How do you really figure out the "size" of a church?

The Church of the Advent is "the second largest" Episcopal Church in Boston.

Average Sunday attendance is around 450.  Easter attendance is over a
thousand (but typically only about half come forward to receive communion).
There are over 1200 people on the mailing list, but many of them are just
occasional visitors; members of other parishes or just music lovers.

Trinity in Copley Square has about three times the average attendance; the
cathedral, though able to seat as many as The Advent, has about 1/5th the
attendance.  Yet by a different reporting mechanism (members of record,
maybe?), The Advent and the Cathedral are both "500-600" and Trinity is
"2400-2500".

There are a lot of Episcopal churches in downtown Boston; there are
five all within a five minute walk.

/john

	Our church is small, with an average weekly attendance of 40.

	The one thing that keeps us there (and brought us back when
	we searched for a new church last year) - Pastor Rose! (Namely,
	her Spirit led teachings!)

	There are a few things I'd like to change, but they're small.
	(In descending order: An earlier start time, lower volume for
	the music, and closer to my home (Hey guys, whaddya think about
	moving this here church 20 miles south ??? ;-)  )

	Like I said, they're minor things.  

	Interesting that a church of over 2000 can't get enough volunteers!
	We could use more, but manage ok with those we have.  
	
	We did not select our church for it's size.  We were led there,
	and that's the size it happens to be.  I like it as it is, but
	wouldn't mind some growth, not just to have X members, but to
	see that many more people blessed each week!

	Karen

    By the definition in .0, I attend a mega church. I've been going there
    for the last 14 years. The earlier 14 years I attended a small church.
    Comparing the mega church with both the church I grew up in as well as
    the other non-mega churches in this area, I'm pleased to be with the
    mega church.
    
    Besides the fact that it's a conservative inerrant-Bible-based church
    (which has nothing to do with its size) I'm most pleased with the
    opportunities a mega church offers - both to the membership as well as
    to the community. There is so much opportunity for service that I could
    literally be doing Bible teaching and involved in aspects of the music
    ministry 7 days a week.
    
    As for the community, the bigger you are (provided that it's managed
    properly) the more impact you can have on your community. For example,
    last year our special speaker for the July 4 service was Oliver North.
    This year it will be Dan Quayle. A small church may have more
    difficulty attracting notaries. We can also offer many help groups
    (e.g. recovery from divorce, substance abuse help, etc.) and community-
    visible events that a small church wouldn't have the resources to
    offer.
    
    The negative about it is in relation to how visitors may not be made
    to feel welcome. Since no one knows everyone, no one can be sure if
    someone is a visitor or not. Since it might be embarrassing to "welcome"
    someone who has been a member longer than you, the tendency is to
    assume that someone you don't know is a member, and you leave them
    alone.
    
    Let me close by stating that I think the church one should attend is
    the one where God would have them attend. From where I sit, bigger is
    better, but I doubt that God wants nothing but mega churches. The
    important thing is that believers gather together for doing His work in
    whatever capacity He provides.
    
    	BD�

    I just thought of another negative to a mega church. The pastor cannot
    do pastoring for so many people. If you need to be "connected" (as in,
    when you're in the hospital you want your pastor there, etc.) with the
    (senior) pastor, you probably won't make it in a mega church.
    
    	BD�

    >Interesting that a church of over 2000 can't get enough volunteers!
    >We could use more, but manage ok with those we have.
    
    That's because when folks see a church that size, they come, join and
    sit in a pew thinking they're not needed.  When Pastor pleads from the
    pulpit for workers, we'll see a small increase.  Also, here in
    California, it just seems folks prefer to be to themselves and don't
    bond to very well or closely with others, even in the Christian circle. 
    Now you take a church like First Baptist Church of Hammond, and well,
    it's down home, let me make you apple pie for the next week, cuz youse
    my new neighbor!!! :-)  
    
    
    >We did not select our church for it's size.  We were led there,
    >and that's the size it happens to be.  
    
    Amen!!! That's exactly as it should be. 
    
    >I like it as it is, but
    >wouldn't mind some growth, not just to have X members, but to
    >see that many more people blessed each week!
                                                                        
    The Bible says in ACTS that the church was added to daily.  We are
    commanded to win the lost and baptize them into the churches, if your
    church is growing, then something's wrong.  I just happen to be in an
    intense study of ACTS right now, and the more I read and learn, the
    more I realize that evangelism isn't a ministry that is part of a
    church, but it is the directive of the church and IS the MINISTRY.
    
    Small churches are great if they're new, but if they're small and just
    kept that way because that's how we like it... this isn't a New
    Testament church.  It is an ecclesia or called out assembly, but it's
    not alive.
    
    Sorry if this offends some, but this is Bible through and through, I
    challenge you to read and study the book of Acts.
    
    Nancy
    
    
    
    

I attend a church of about 200 members.  Again, it's where we were led.  It was
only about 100 members when we joined 9 years ago.  I really love the sense of
family that is present there.

But much more than that, I love the ever-growing sense of the presence of the
Holy Spirit.  The Spiritual growth we have been experiencing for the past 6
years or so is phenomenal, and the pace just keeps picking up.  I really love
the pastor of the church.  He's not a flashy leader type.  His sermons are
wonderful, deep, and challenging, but he's not the sort of preacher that holds
people spellbound on every word.  What he is, is a true shepherd.  He's said:
"The message of every sermon of mine is the same, at the root: 'Move deeper in
your relationship with Christ,'" and everything he's done here has been in 
support of that.

This focus on true shepherding has caused an interesting growth pattern.  For a
couple of years after he came, we didn't experience a very large growth in 
numbers.  We gained some, but our community is very mobile, and we lost some to
job transfers.  There actually was concern for a while that we weren't growing
as we should be.  But what we didn't notice at first was that while we weren't
growing in numbers very much, we were growing in depth tremendously.  There is 
now somewhere between 60-70% of our active members in at least one weekly bible 
study group in addition to Sunday worship, and an ever-growing committment among
more and more members to truly make Christ the center of our lives, not just
a piece of our lives.

And in the last two years, the numbers growth has begun to take off.  I can't
count the number of times in the past two years I've heard new people say things
like "I've never been to a church like this before."  There's just an infectious
joy in the body that grabs people when they just come to visit.  We probably
have a dozen families in the past year alone who just came to bring their kids
to Sunday school, or just came because they ought to "do church," and are now
putting Christ in a central place in their lives for the first time.

It is one exciting place to be right now.  There's been a growing sense too that
we've only begun the journey that God has set before us.  There's a constant 
wonder of "What is the Holy Spirit going to do here next?"

Paul

	Nancy,

	I know you weren't directing your reply to me, but since it came up...

	My church is relatively new.  We've been in this location for two years,
	and I'm not quite sure how long before that the church was started.

	We've had lots of new members, but have also lost some members.  Our
	Church is near Fort Devens, and as that base was slated for closing,
	people were relocated.  We've also had some people leave (myself
	included, for a time!) on their own, but new members have come in,
	so the number of members held somewhat constant.

	FWIW.

	Karen

    Aw geez Karen,
    
    I really didn't mean to indicate anything negative about *your* church. 
    I hope you weally beweeve me.
    
    My church has grown relatively slow the last 3 years, the first 12
    years was enormous growth, but the last 3 has been very small, the
    numbers of added members have been incredible, but the numbers of
    attrition have been incredible too.
    
    With the economy of California [Silicon Valley] hitting some pretty low
    numbers, people have sold the real estate, taken their equity and moved
    to more economic areas to purchase homes.  In one year we lost 123
    members, we added however, 134 members [or thereabouts], the growth was
    more then the loss, but for a year that makes growth look relatively
    small.
    
    To sum, when looking for a church, like Karen said, go where the Holy
    Spirit leads you and go to a church that is true testimony of a New
    Testament Church, which is evangelical.
    
    Nancy

	Thank you to all thge brothers and sisters who replied to my basenote.

I have been struggling with some things regarding the fellowship I had been 
associated with and have recently left.  I was having feelings that my move had
been based on just my own feelings.  I am blessed to see that no matter whether
the assembly is small, medium, big, giant or whatever, there is a common
mind as to what 'makes a good church'.  I have always believed that a growing
church was a healthy church.  The New Testament bears witness to that!  
I thank God that His Word is so clear as to what makes up a GOOD fellowship.  
I don't want to get into any details in an open forum.  Suffice it to say that
even though the church I was attending had more than 8000 members and could seat
6500 people at one time, there were some things being taught which clearly didn't
square with the Word of God.  Growth indicates health but it can also provide a
comfortable breeding ground for questionable teachings.  It's easier to get lost
in a crowd when the crowd is REALLY huge!  

The Lord has already lead me to another fellowship.  It will be a while before
I meet some people and begin to fit in, but the teaching is ROCK SOLID and that
is what will make the difference in the long run.

Once again, thanks for providing the 'sanity check'.  

		In Jesus' Name,

		Rich 

	Nancy,

	I beweeve you!

	

    Rich,
    
    I wasn't intending to be a contrary by my statements in .7.  I really
    do not attend a church (it is not consituted with by-laws and such).  I
    attend a mission of the Southern Baptists.  If we grow and constitute
    we will formally become a church someday.
    
    jeff

    Hi Jeff,
    
    	I didn't take your comment as contrary.  You reminded me that
    _we_..._us_... the people of God, are the church.  I have been let down
    by man and his attempt at religion.  I have told other people that
    Religion is what man tries to do for God while Christianity is what God
    has already done for man.  I am starting to take my own advice. Take
    care.
    
    	May the Lord be with you, my brother,
    
    	Rich

    I was just looking over some old topics and noticed this one started by
    Rich.  I saw him at church the other day and he said to tell everyone
    "Hi!"  
    
    BTW - Our church is now at 3,000 and counting...
    
    Mike

    ha!  You think your parking is a headache, my church runs close to 2000
    every week and we only have 40 parking stalls at the church!  Ask Jimbo
    it's quite an operation.

    Yeah that is pretty bad!  Oh well, it's a good way to have to walk ;-)

We have an average attendance of 400-500 and _no_ parking.  Not even one
single space.  All the on-street parking is "resident permit required".
I park seven miles away and ride the subway.

/john

 yes, I was amazed at how Nancy's church handles the parking..quite a task..


 My church is about 350 and growing.  We are moving as quick as we can with
 a building program, though we are about 9 months away from pouring a founda-
 tion.  However, we are beginning to prepare the various ministries of the 
 church for  the new facility, which will be an exandable 700 seat auditorium.

 We have no real parking problems, but we've had to get pretty creative with
 our first hour activities.



 Jim

    I'd say my Church had about 100 attendees on average. Most of us walk
    to church. We do have parking, but only space enough (including on the
    road) for 15 or so cars, so I don't think it's worth the hassle and I
    don't like driving anyway. The Church is about 2 miles away from where
    I live. 
    They were talking about maybe creating a proper carpark in the church 
    grounds but I hope they don't - I prefer garden to concrete and the
    garden supplies me with an inexhaustable supply of greenery for my 
    flowers.
    

    
    I'm only a bit embarrassed to admit that we left the Southern Baptist
    mission about a year ago.  I simply could not tolerate some Southern
    Baptist doctrine or culture (congregational, belligerantly so in the
    south).  But I left in a very mature way with a very frank discussion
    with the pastor.
    
    We have found our home for awhile.  We are a part of the Orthodox
    Presbyterian Church now.  It's a mission again (I'm growing a bit tired
    by the pace - so much to do).  I am so certain that the Presbyterian
    form of church government is the biblical model and the difference is
    so evident that its awesome sometimes.  I'll never(?) return to a
    congregational form of church governance.  The Reformed faith has its
    own struggles for sure but they aren't with fundamental doctrines.  In
    fact I have seen no more solid biblical traditions than in the OPC.
    
    Hopefully I won't be reporting in a year that we've moved again!  We
    live in a rural suburb (exploding now, actually) and there isn't a
    great volume of diversity by any stretch of the imagination.  Now there
    is a new Anglican congregation starting up (this seems sooooo strange
    in our area).  It is an offshoot of an Atlanta Anglican church, "Church
    of the Apostles".  A marvelous pastor serves there - Michael Youseff
    who some of you may have heard on the radio.  He's of Egyption
    background raised substantially in Scotland.
    
    Anyway,
    
    jeff
    
    

    Our biggest problem is that we've grown so fast in such a short time. 
    When I said we were at 3,000 I was referring to adults only.  When I
    first started going there 3 years ago we were at 700.  There has to be
    at least 1 child per adult, which puts a huge strain on the nursery.  
    
    Earlier this year we were at our wits end in finding Sunday school
    teachers and assistants to keep up with the demand.  It finally got to
    the point where we prayed that the Lord will either provide the help or
    lead the people to another church ;-)  About a month ago we received
    volunteers for 200 new teachers and assistants so it's been an answer to 
    prayer and a tremendous help.  
    
    It is amazing to see how the Lord has moved.  We living proof that
    people love to sit under great Bible *teaching*.
    
    Mike

My current church responsibility is showing an attendance of around 40
or so.  We are involved in planting a church in the Windham, NH area.
We even are bringing the makings of help groups together for some who
have wanted to come out of sinful alternative lifestyles.  We are 
establishing a new outpost for the kingdom of God in Windham, NH
and covet your prayers for this effort.

I hope that by the time we reach 3000, we'll be a growing collection 
of group ministries.

Mark