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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

132.0. "What if they WANT wickedness?" by ECADSR::SHERMAN (Steve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26a) Fri May 07 1993 14:00

    I didn't see a similar note after doing a couple of different dir/tit's
    so here goes.
    
    I recently read note 174.* in MOVIES with a bit of shock.  The gist of
    it is the folks are discussing movies that make them feel bad. 
    Something about it really bothered me and I think I know what it is.
    It is that there is a sort of celebration of wicked and/or repulsive 
    things.  I don't think these folks are that unusual.  I think they 
    represent a pretty fair sampling of a significant sector of the public.
    
    Years ago as a kid I had the impression that Christians basically sense
    a mission in life that involves convincing others of their wicked ways
    so that they will repent and turn to God.  It's a simplistic view, but
    it is based on the idea that people basically want to do what's right.
    
    But, I think the note string shows that this paradigm may be
    inapplicable at times.  What do you do when folks know that what they
    are doing is "wicked" and want to do it anyway?  The old arguments
    about how bad something is before could be expected to get a response
    like, "it's not so bad."  Now, if you were to tell some folks how wicked
    something is they might well respond with something like, "Oooh! I've
    gotta go to it!  When does it start?"
    
    So, now the fight is even harder.  It's not enough to convince someone
    that something is wrong.  They know that already.  Now we have to
    figure out how to encourage someone the value of seeking what's good.
    
    Comments?
    
    Steve
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132.1MSBCS::JMARTINFri May 07 1993 14:1717
    Steve:
    
    In light of the fact that the hearts of men will grow callous, I think
    of what Stephen said in Acts 7.
    
     "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always
    resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
    Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?  And they have
    slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom
    ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law
    by the disposition of angels and have not kept it."  Acts 7:51-53.
     
    I'm afraid we are approaching the same type of environment Stephen
    faced.  I believe stronger persecution is on the horizon for the true
    believer.
    
    -Jack
132.2...how should we then liveICTHUS::YUILLEThou God seest meFri May 07 1993 14:4050
Agreed, Steve.

The ethos is changing to see good as evil and evil as good.  Just this 
lunch-time I was talking about this with some friends, as we were looking 
at Isaiah 5.  verse 20 says:  
 "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who put darkness for
  light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for
  bitter."

Some time ago, a friend was shocked to realise that in the new phraseology,
children would use terms like 'evil' to indicate a compliment to something
they admired. 

In giving the message of salvation, we aren't trying to put life giving
liquid into an empty vessel; often now, we're trying to put it into a
vessel which is filled with something else....

Long term rejection of God by mankind has hardened into seeking a deeper 
substitute than the mere physical gratification.  The eternal void within 
wants a spiritual satisfaction, and if the holiness of God is not accepted
there are other things with an appetite hungry for the human soul.

I see Romans 1 being fulfilled.

 "...since they did not think it worth while to retain the knowledge of God, 
  He gave them over to do what ought not to be done.  They have become filled 
  with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of 
  envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice.  They are gossips, slanderers, 
  God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing 
  evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, 
  ruthless.  Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such 
  things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but 
  also approve of those who practise them."

It creeps in everywhere...

 "... when these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up yuor 
  heads, because your redemptionis drawing near."

Well ... ok, so Luke 21:28 isn't strictly referring to to that particular 
sign, but the general trend is indicated for the last days (as in 2 Timothy 
3:1-5), so we can take it as an anticipation, just maybe a little further 
off than immediate....

Only the Holy Spirit can convict people's hearts of righteousness (John 
16:8), and a measure of that includes realising the awfulness of what they 
- we - have become....

						looking forward...
								Andrew
132.3CSLALL::HENDERSONRevive us againFri May 07 1993 14:5317


 While not entirely on subject, I find it interesting (and most certainly I'm
 not the first to notice this) that the TV networks tell us about the horrible
 criminal acts taking place (such as the Post Office murders taking place 
 yesterday) and what a horrible world this is becoming, and then the next 3-4
 hours of network TV time bombards us with docudramas on similarly horrible 
 crimes, interspersed with commericials for the type of "entertainment" 
 described in .0!






 Jim
132.4ECADSR::SHERMANSteve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26aFri May 07 1993 15:2132
    As some of you know, I'm working with a partnership that is trying to
    bring good entertainment out.  I'm learning a lot in dealing with
    people in the industry.  One thing I learned is that there is a
    community of Christian actors/actresses who really are trying to
    promote good entertainment.  Even though it is Christian, it actually
    involves non-Christian folks who share Judeo-Christian values.  They
    are almost "secret" because in the business it is sometimes the kiss of 
    death to be labeled as "Christian" or "family-oriented."
    
    Another thing that I'm learning is that the sales for good quality
    entertainment are booming, but we don't usually hear much about it on
    radio, commercial television or in movie theaters.  A lot of it seems to 
    be by word of mouth.  Kind of like a grass roots movement.  It's a very 
    curious situation to me.  I wonder about the folks who are "addicted"
    to the ugliness they see on TV and in theaters.
    
    A friend of mine that I've shared these thoughts with likens the situation 
    to the days of Rome when they threw Christians to lions for entertainment.  
    I envision the cheering crowds as otherwise normal men, women and
    children.  I imagine they probably talked about these events with the same 
    awe and enthusiasm as some folks talk today about the things that happen on
    soaps, movies, TV drama and news.  Perhaps they didn't view these events
    just with laughter but also with some pain and anguish.  Even so, they may 
    still have regarded it as fine entertainment.  I wonder how similar
    they are to people of today.
    
    As others point out here, I also wonder how far it will go.  Will
    people become so hard-hearted that real violence will be done to
    Christians with crowds cheering it on?  Incidents involving abortion as
    discussed here seem to be saying that, yes, this could happen soon.
    
    Steve