Conference yukon::christian_v7

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

And straightaway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with
the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried
him away, and delivered him to Pilate.  And they all condemned him to be
guilty of death.  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Golgotha.  Then delivered he him unto them to
be crucified.  And they took Jesus and led him away.

V. God spared not his own Son:
R. But delivered him up for us all.

Let us pray.

Grant, we beseech thee, Almighty God, that we, who for our evil deeds do
worthily deserve to be punished, by the comfort of thy grace may mercifully
be relieved; through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.  Amen.

                      Who on Christ's dear mother gazing,
                        Pierced by anguish so amazing,
                        Born of woman, would not weep?

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a
skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha.  Though he were a Son, yet
learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.  He was led as a
sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened
he not his mouth.  Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and
riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.

V. The Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all:
R. For the transgression of his people was he stricken.

Let us pray.

Almighty God, whose most dear Son went not up to joy but first he suffered
pain, and entered not into glory before he was crucified; Mercifully grant
that we, walking in the way of the cross, may find it none other than the
way of life and peace; through the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

                     Who, on Christ's dear mother thinking
                        Such a cup of sorrow drinking,
                       Would not share her sorrows deep?

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

Christ Jesus, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be
equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the
form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found
in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross.  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,
and given him a name which is above every name.  O come, let us worship
and fall down, and kneel before the Lord our Maker, for he is the Lord
our God.

V. Surely he hath borne our griefs:
R. And carried our sorrows.

Let us pray.

O God, who knowest us to be set in the midst of so many and great dangers,
that by reason of the frailty of our nature we cannot always stand upright;
grant to us such strength and protection, as may support us in all dangers,
and carry us through all temptations; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

                       For his people's sins chastised,
                         She beheld her Son despised,
                  Scourged, and crowned with thorns entwined.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

What shall I testify unto thee?  What shall I liken to thee, O daughter of
Jerusalem?  What shall I compare to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin
daughter of Zion?  For thy ruin is deep as the sea: who can heal thee?
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.  The Lord shall
be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

V. A sword shall pierce through thine own soul also:
R. That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Let us pray.

We beseech thee, O Lord, pour thy grace into our hearts; that, as we have
known the incarnation of thy Son Jesus Christ by the message of an angel,
so by his cross and passion we may be brought unto the glory of his
resurrection, through the same Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                       Saw him then from judgment taken,
                         And in death by all forsaken,
                         Till his spirit he resigned.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name, coming
out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it
after Jesus.  If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and
take up his cross and follow me.  Take my yoke upon you and learn of me;
for my yoke is easy, and my burden light.

V. Whosoever doth not bear his cross and come after me:
R. Cannot be my disciple.

Let us pray.

O God, whose blessed Son did overcome death for our salvation: Mercifully
grant that we who have his glorious passion in remembrance may take up our
cross daily and follow him; through the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.

                         Jesus, may her deep devotion
                         Stir in me the same emotion,
                         Fount of love, Redeemer kind.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

He hath no form or comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that
we should desire him.  He was despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows,
and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him: he was
despised, and we esteemed him not.  His visage was so marred more than any
man, and his form more than the sons of men.  He was wounded for our
transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of
our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

V. Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts:
R. Show us the light of thy countenance, and we shall be whole.

Let us pray.

O God, who before the passion of thine only begotten Son didst reveal his
glory upon the holy mount:  Grant unto us thy servants, that in faith
beholding the light of his countenance, we may be strengthened to bear
the cross, and be changed into his likeness from glory to glory: through
the same Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                      That my heart fresh ardor gaining,
                          And a purer love attaining,
                        May with thee acceptance find.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows.  All we like
sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the
Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.  He was oppressed, and he
was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: for the transgression of his
people was he stricken.

V. But as for me, I am a worm and no man:
R. A very scorn of men, and the outcast of my people.

Let us pray.

Almighty and everlasting God, who, of thy tender love towards mankind,
hast sent thy Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ, to take upon him our flesh
and to suffer death upon the cross, that all mankind should follow the
example of his great humility; Mercifully grant that we may both follow
the example of his patience, and also be made partakers of his
resurrection; through the same Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                        True repentance, Jesus, win me:
                      Saviour print thy wounds within me.
                       Brand them on my stubborn heart.

                    As thou bought'st, through tribulation,
                         In thy passion my salvation,
                         Let me bear therein my part.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which
also bewailed and lamented him.  But Jesus turning unto them said,
"Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and
for your children."

V. They that sow in tears:
R. Shall reap in joy.

Let us pray.

Almighty and everlasting God, who hatest nothing that thou has made,
and dost forgive the sins of all those who are penitent:  Create and
make in us new and contrite hearts, that we, worthily lamenting our
sins and acknowledging our wretchedness, may obtain of thee, the God
of all mercy, perfect remission and forgiveness; through Jesus Christ
our Lord.  Amen.

                       Let me mourn, O Lord, beside thee
                      For the sins which crucified thee,
                         While my life remains in me.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

O my people, what have I done unto thee, or wherein have I wearied thee?
Testify against me.  Because I brought thee forth from the land of Egypt,
thou hast prepared a Cross for thy Saviour.  Because I led thee through
the desert forty years, and fed thee with manna, and brought thee into
a land exceeding good, thou hast prepared a Cross for thy Saviour.  What
more could I have done unto thee that I have not done?

V. He was led as a sheep to the slaughter:
R. And like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth.

Let us pray.

Keep, we beseech thee, O Lord, thy Church with thy perpetual mercy; and,
because the frailty of man without thee cannot but fall, keep us ever by
thy help from all things hurtful and lead us to all things profitable to
our salvation; through Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                      Take beneath the cross my station.
                           And in all thy desolation
                           So unite myself with thee.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say,
place of a skull, they gave him vinegar to drink and mingled with gall:
and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.  And they parted his
garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by
the prophet, "They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture
did they cast lots."

V. They gave me gall to eat.
R. And when I was thirsty they gave me vinegar to drink.

Let us pray.

O Lord God, whose blessed Son, our Saviour, gave his back to the smiters
and hid not his face from shame: Grant us grace to take joyfully the
sufferings of the present time, in full assurance of the glory that shall
be revealed; through the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                        Jesus, great beyond all other,
                      Turn not from me, heav'nly brother,
                          Let me too bewail thy pain.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, there they
crucified him.  And with him they crucified two thieves; the one on his
right hand, and the other on his left.  And the scripture was fulfilled,
which saith, "And he was numbered with the transgressors."  O my people,
what have I done unto thee?  I did raise thee on high with great power:
and thou hast hanged me upon the gibbet of the Cross.

V. I, if I be lifted up:
R. Will draw all men unto me.

Let us pray.

O God, who by the passion of thy blessed Son hast made the instrument of
shameful death to be unto us the means of life and peace: Grant us so to
glory in the Cross of Christ, that we may gladly suffer shame and loss; for
the sake of the same thy Son our Lord.  Amen.

                       Let my soul, thy death declaring,
                        Thy unsparing passion sharing,
                         Count thy bruises one by one.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

When Jesus therefore saw his mother and the disciple standing by, whom
he loved, he saith unto his mother, "Woman, behold thy Son!"  Then saith
he to the disciple, "Behold thy mother!"  When Jesus therefore had received
the vinegar, he said, "It is finished."  And when he had cried with a loud
voice, he said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit."  And he bowed
his head, and gave up the ghost.

� All kneel.  Then may be said the Lord's Prayer silently, after which all rise.

V. Christ for our sake became obedient unto death:
R. Even the death of the Cross.

Let us pray.

O God, who for our redemption didst give thine only-begotten Son to the
death of the Cross, and by his glorious resurrection has delivered us from
the power of our enemy; Grant us so to die daily from sin, that we may
evermore live with him in the joy of his resurrection; through the same
thy Son Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                    Let thy stripes and scourging smite me;
                         At thy holy Cross requite me,
                        Let thy blood refresh me there.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

All ye that pass by, behold, and see if there be any sorrow like unto my
sorrow.  Mine eyes do fail with tears, my soul is troubled; my heart is
poured out in grief because of the downfall of my people.  Call me not
Naomi (which is Pleasant), call me Mara (which is Bitter); for the
Almighty hath dealt very bitterly with me.

V. Her tears are on her cheeks:
R. She hath none to comfort her.

Let us pray.

Grant we beseech thee, merciful Lord, to thy faithful people pardon and
peace, that they may be cleansed from all their sins, and serve thee with
a quiet mind; through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.

                        O how said and sore distressed
                       Now was she, that mother blessed
                           Of the sole-begotten One.

V. We adore thee, O Christ, and we bless thee,
R. Because by thy Cross and Precious Blood thou hast
   redeemed the world.

When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimethaea, named Joseph,
who also himself was Jesus' disciple; he went to Pilate, and begged the
body of Jesus.  Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.  And when
Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and laid
it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled
a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

V. Thou shalt not leave my soul in hell:
R. Neither shalt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption.

Let us pray.

Grant, O Lord, that as we are baptized into the death of thy blessed Son,
our Saviour Jesus Christ, so by continual mortifying our corrupt affection
we may be buried with him; and that through the grave, and gate of death,
we may pass to our joyful resurrection; for his merits, who died, and was
buried, and rose again for us, the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.

                        Deep the woe of her affliction
                         When she saw the crucifixion
                           Of her ever glorious Son.

� Here may be said the Apostle's Creed.

V. O Saviour of the world, who by thy Cross and Precious Blood hast
   redeemed us
R. Save us and help us, we humbly beseech thee, O Lord.

Let us pray.

Almighty Father, who hast given thine only Son to die for our sins, and to
rise again for our justification; Grant us so to put away the leaven of
malice and wickedness, that we may always serve thee in pureness of living
and truth; through the merits of the same thy Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.

+ The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship
of the Holy Ghost be with us all evermore.  Amen.

re.13 (John)

> XIII. Jesus is Placed in the Arms of His Mother

	I must have missed it, so will you please point me to the scripture
that shows that "Jesus was placed in the arms of His mother"?

ace

Ace, 
  Perhaps this will clairfy things to your question in -.1.  John is
on a Lenten fast from participating in some notes conferences, including
this one.  The absitnence from fasting is permitted on Sundays (note
the date of his replies).  From .0:

>Eight of the stations are based directly on events recorded in the Gospels.
>The remaining six (stations III, IV, VI, VII, IX, and XIII) are based on
>inferences from the Gospels or upon pious legend, and may be omitted if
>desired.

Mark

    Ace,
    
    Also see Michelangelo's Pieta.
    
    Richard
    

> ... and may be omitted if desired.

    Well, Ace, maybe we'll have to omit that station. :-)

    Mark L.

re.17
	thanks Mark M.. Missed that.

re.18

	Richard, not sure Micky Angel has to do with this. You mean he painted 
a picture showing this?

Re.19

	Mark L, Consider it done!  8*)




ace

    .20  Ace,
    
    	The pieta is a rather famous sculpture of Jesus having been
    removed from the cross and in the arms of Mary.
    
    Richard
    

re:    .21  Michelangelo's pieta ....

	But without any Biblical precedent 

							Andrew

    
    I have a postscript file that is a medical description of Christ's
    death on the cross.  It is too big to post.
    
    To get a copy.....
    
    $ COPY TAPE::USER2:[LOMBARDO.SPECS]CRUCIFY.PS *.*
    
    To print it out.
    
    $ PRINT/PARAM=DATA=POST CRUCIFY.PS /QUEUE=[postscript printer]
    
    

re.21

	Richard,

	I see. Perhaps fewer people would have been confused over these many
centuries if that artist had been more biblically accurate in his painting.

	You know some people will remember that painting and actually think
that the Bible says the same thing. Which it doesn't.

thanks for the clarification,
ace

Hi Lisa, 

I tried to access TAPE::USER2:[LOMBARDO.SPECS]CRUCIFY.PS with
directory/size, and copy, and got: 

%COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening TAPE::USER2:[LOMBARDO.SPECS]CRUCIFY.PS; as input
-RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failed
-SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node

I'm pretty sure I copied the name right, using the mouse; is protection ok?

					 - thanks
 						    Andrew

    "Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother: 'This child is
    destined to be the downfall and the rise of many in Israel, a sign
    that will be opposed and you yourself shall be pierced with a sword
    so the thoughts of many will be laid bare." Luke 2:34-35.

    Although the Bible doesn't state that Jesus was placed in Mary's arms when 
    he was removed from the cross, we know that Mary was at the foot of the
    cross watching  her son die. Michael Angelo's Peita is the artist 
    expression of Mary's heart being pierced as Simeon spoke of. I feel some 
    of what Mary felt when I see the Peita or the 14 station of the cross. 
    
    I don't see the cause for confusion here.

     Jim

I find the artwork moving.

It's not confusion, Jim.  But just like how Brian supplied the Seder
references to show how the bread is used metaphorically and not literally,
the Peita is "supplied" extrabiblically to show the passion of a mother for 
her son after he was killed on a cruel cross.

Now, the Seder reference was supplied extrabiblically (that is, it wasn't
part of the recorded text, but it's a sure fire idea that good Jews who
observed the Law of Moses knew what to say during the seder.  So, I don't
have a problem with thinking that Mary was able to cradle the dead body
of our Lord when he was taken from the cross.

Mark

    I have a postscript file that is a medical description of Christ's
    death on the cross.  It is too big to post.
    
    To get a copy.....
    
    $ COPY ELWOOD::ELWOOD_USER2:[LOMBARDO]CRUCIFY.PS *.*
    
    To print it out.
    
    $ PRINT/PARAM=DATA=POST CRUCIFY.PS /QUEUE=[postscript printer]
    

    Ace,
    
    	1.  I was not all that serious when I referred to Michelangelo's Pieta.
    
    	2.  It is a sculpture, not a painting.  Moses and David are also
    	    well-known sculptures by the same artist.
    
    	3.  Never mind.
    
    Richard

	RE.31 Richard

	I love multiple choice. Okay, I pick # 3!

	8*)

ace

    
    Since Passover/Sabbath were approaching it is clear that little time
    was available for taking and preparing Jesus's body.  Joseph of
    Arimethea requested of Pilate to take the body otherwise the Romans
    would have disposed of it in Gehenna (the burning dump outside
    Jerusalem).   All of this had to be done by sundown.  As a matter of
    fact they could not complete the job of preparation for burial because
    of the little time available before sundown.  Mary was on her way to
    complete the job of burial when she found the empty tomb.
    
    Having said all of this, it is doubtful that there was any significant
    amount of time for handling and grieving over Jesus's body.
    
    jeff

    re: .34
    
    Mary was at the foot of the cross through everything and it is just
    a natural conclusion that if she endured all that, then she would not
    walk away before he was taken down or buried. (Would YOU?)
    
    Nothing says how long she may have been able to hold him. Perhaps it
    was only a minute. It is the grieving that is important in this scene,
    not necessarily the physical contact.
    
    Certainly Mary grieved, both during Jesus' death, and afterwards.
    As Richard pointed to scripture, she, too, was pierced by the sword
    that pierced her Son.
    
    In a world that is rapidly turning so cold to the suffering of others,
    this Station of the Cross speaks about the pain of sin that not only
    afflicts the immediate victim, but also all those who love. It speaks
    of the value of life that is so easily and coldly disposable today.
                                         
    Peace,
    
    Mary
    

re.35 Mary

	The issue is that it is not supported by the Bible. People may do as
much conjecturing as they wish but God's word is the final authority. Whether
she did or not matters little. Saying she did even though there is no biblical
support for it matters a lot (at least to me!). 

>    As Richard pointed to scripture, she, too, was pierced by the sword
>    that pierced her Son.

	Say more.

Ace

	

    Ace:
    
    "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if
    they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself
    could not contain the books that should be written." John 21:25
    
    Ace..my only reason for writing this is to point out that there were
    many acts Jesus performed that are not supported scripturally.  I am
    playing the devils advocate here because I agree with you on the Mary
    issue; however, mankind has conjectured (many time incorrectly) on some
    of the historical facts.  My common sense tells me that Mary couldn't 
    have supported the weight of a corpse (unless she was a strong lady).
    I am making a generalization, granted.  But sometimes, things like the
    paintings of Michael Angel make you go Hmmmm, I'll ask God if that
    happened when I go to be with Him!
    
    Godspeed,
    
    Jack

    Hey, Jack.  When you do, ask Him if Moses had really had horns, too!
    :-)
    
    Mark L.

    There is a reason Michelangelo portrayed Moses with horns, you know.
    
    Richard
    

>    There is a reason Michelangelo portrayed Moses with horns, you know.
    
    I know it was more than a vivid artistic imagination. :-)  I once
    heard, and I was trying to remember; I think it had something to do
    with a poor translation of a particualar verse....
    
    Mark L.

re.39

I can't imagine any legitimate reason.

Why'd he do it?

Ace

    re: horns...
    
    Can I guess?
    
    I think it's because the Hebrew word for glory (which is escaping me at
    the moment - sorry!) can also mean horn (as in power/glory, not trumpet
    or "devil's horns" like Mikey gave Moses ;-).
    
    Is that what you were thinking, Richard?
    
    Steve

    I attended the "Stations of the Cross," Friday afternoon at my church. The
    booklet we used gave the history of the stations of the cross in that
    the practice was brought into the Church because  the Turks stopped
    visitations to the Holy Land during the twelfth century. The stations
    were a way of teaching and remembering the passion of Jesus. St. Alphonse 
    was  the originator of the text we used and the thirteenth station is 
    titled, "Jesus Is Taken Down From The Cross." The picture show's Jesus 
    body being removed, with his mother Mary looking on in sorrow. 

     Jim

Station XIII seems to have various different titles.

The title I used ("Jesus is Placed in the Arms of His Mother") came from
"The Anglican Service Book".  I note that the St. Augustine's prayer book
(a book of devotions for Episcopalians), the St. Joseph's Roman Catholic
Sunday Missal, and "The New Pilgrim's guide to the Holy Land" by Franciscan
priest Fr. Doyle all use "Jesus is Taken Down from the Cross."  The picture
in the St. Joseph's missal shows Mary embracing her Son as he is lowered
from the Cross by three men.  The picture in the St. Augustine's prayer
book shows Mary leaning over her Son.

Yet another title: "Jesus is Taken Down from the Cross and Placed in the
Lap of his Mother" is used in "Gotteslob", the official German Roman
Catholic prayer book.  If you can't picture her supporting him in her
arms; maybe you can picture his Body briefly resting in her lap.

Remember, this is a devotion on Our Lord's crucifixion and the sorrow of
his disciples -- OUR sorrow, the Apostles' sorrow, his Mother's sorrow --
noone claims that your salvation depends on believing exactly how Mary held
her Son as he was removed from the Cross -- or even that she did.

If you don't like this station, adapt it for your own use.  If you have
to be so strictly tied to absolutely what is in scripture rather than just
avoiding things which cannot be proven from scripture, I'd suspect you
would have objected to a play I saw last night because one of the women
who had come to the empty tomb said "WOW!" -- a word not in the Bible.

Scripture tells us that Mary was there; scripture tells us of her sorrow;
and common sense tells us that in her grief she embraced her Son.

/john

re.43 & .44 

	Jim, John,

	Thanks for clarifying the origins and such.

regards,
ace