Conference yukon::christian_v7

    Jack,
    
    I was a member of The Way International until I was delivered by our
    gracious Lord.  I left in 1980, and have been out of touch with them
    since then.  However, I do know that their leader (Victor Paul
    Wierwille) died in 1985, and in the ensuing power struggle, the Way
    split into two (or possibly more) groups.
    
    Some key doctrines of the Way:
    
    o Jesus Christ is not God
    o You must speak in toungues to be saved
    o You can only know the truth through the Way's teaching
    o You must live the more abundant life (that is, gain material wealth)
    o The dead are still asleep and have not risen yet
    o Abortion is biblical (!!)
    o You can lead a perfect, sinless life by believing you will (power
      of the will)
    o You have the power to do anything God can do
    o God is indebted to you (!!) for believing in Him
    o The Holy Spirit is just another name for God
    
    Some of these teachings are explicit, others are implicit.
    
    In general, people in the Way are argumentive.  It is hard to reach
    them with the Truth, except through much prayer.
    
    However, I do believe that there are honest God-seeking people in the
    Way who are trapped by Satan.  They need to know true love, rather than
    the false love offered by the Way.
    
    If you need any help, you can contact me off-line.
    
    Regards,
    Bo 

    Hi Bo:
    
    Thanks for sharing that.  The wife came over Saturday to give us a
    welcome gift.  She is a very nice young lady.  She and my wife talked a
    little about the person of Jesus.  My wife explained to her that God is
    the only one with authority to forgive sin.  If Jesus isn't God, we as
    humans are still unredeemed.  The neighbor was intriqued by this but
    kind of wanted to avoid further discussion.
    
    My feeling is that our neighbors are not fully indoctrinated and can be
    reached.  We will develop a good relationship with them and share as
    God provides opportunity.
    
    God Speed,
    
    Jack

Jack,
  Pull out the scriptures where Jesus forgave sins and healed the
parapalegic.  "Which is easier? To say to this man your sins are forgiven
or to say get up and walk?  So that you may know that the Son of man has
power to forgive sins: 'Rise, take up your bed and walk."

(From memory.  How'd I do?)

MM

    Mark:
    
    You did great!  In fact, it wouldn't have been totally unusual for a 
    pharisee to say, "your sins are forgiven" in the context of saying,
    "God forgives you."  It's interesting to note in this case that when
    Jesus initially said, "Your sins are forgiven", the original Hebrew
    is put in such a way that he did not speak as a priestly mediator,
    but as one who had authority.  This is why the pharisees were murmuring
    amongst themselves and consequentally, Jesus answered their challenge!!
    
    -Jack

Thanks Bo,

I remember you entered some helpful information on this is a version now 
archived.  A man who has been attending my church for some years recently 
professed himself serious with the LORD, and has become more involved.  In
conversation, he mentioned casually that he's also attending a private
Bible study group in someone's house.  From his description, it sounded 
very much like 'The Way International', though they don't include all the 
points you mention.  For instance, he has heard no mention of tongues so 
far.  Thanks for highlighting the fallacies to test for...

							Andrew

    Jack,
    
    If you need any specific materials, let me know.  I have them buried in
    a box in the basement, but could pull them out if you need them.  I
    work in Maynard and live in Sudbury, MA.
    
    Andrew,
    
    If there's any specifics about this man's Bible study you want to know
    about, please ask.  BTW, the Way structure is set up in tree format:
    root being the HQ, trunk the local/regional HQ, branch the town's group
    of Way followers, a a twig as the local Bible study.   If you hear any
    of these terms, this man may be in the Way.
    
    Bo

Thanks, Bo - I'll listen out for the tree structure ;-)

							Andrew

    Hi Bo:
    
    Judging from the conversation between you and Andrew, I now question
    whether our neighbors are sincere when saying they have left the Way.
    They are doing the home bible studies as you have mentioned.  Still,
    I guess I'll find out eventually.
    
    When you were involved, was there an overt element of deceit among the
    members, i.e. not telling the truth at times; or has my experiences
    been an isolated incident.
    
    God Speed,
    
    Jack

>    was there an overt element of deceit among the
>    members, i.e. not telling the truth at times;

I cannot imagine ANY Christian gathering that would deliberately
lie, hide the truth, or practice deceit.

    Mark:
    
    The reason I asked this question was because I had a run in with The
    Way back in 1982.  I found the person from the Way was very deceitful
    in trying to get me to attend their meetings.  I didn't know if The Way
    trained people to be this way to get other members or if it was just an
    isolated incident.
    
    -Jack

I don't know either, Jack.  Here's another experience relating to another
"group."

My friend (a Pastor) was asked three times if this group could
use his church building for a Bible study.  My Pastor friend asked
them directly if they were affiliated with this Boston group.
They sidestepped the question the first two times (may have even said,
no, but I don't recall), but finally admitted that they were affiliated.

I say again, how can any group that calls itself Christian practice anything
excpet openness of purpose, calling, etc.?

(So, I was not jumping on you, Jack.  But I recalled this and I am
incredulous to find that some groups will practice deceit for the
sake of "saving" people.  That's not how I understand God to be.)

MM

> I cannot imagine ANY Christian gathering that would deliberately
> lie, hide the truth, or practice deceit.
    
    But remember, the Way Internaltional is NOT a Christian gathering.  It
    is a pseudo-christian cult that DOES engage in such practices.  In
    addition to what has already been said  (regarding some of their
    heresies, etc.), I would add that they have been identified as
    utilizing some real mind-control methods on "recruits".
    
    Mark L.

    Jack,
    
    Yes, the Way often resorts to deception to lure or entice new members.
    
    New members, BTW, must pay cash to become a Christian!  Really!  In
    order to learn how to believe, you must attend their doctrinal class. 
    I paid $100 in 1979, it went up to $200 shortly thereafter.  I've heard
    third hand that it's now offered at $40 or so.
    
    The Way refers to their class as the PFAL (Power For Abundant Living).
    class.
    
    Bo

    Re: .11
    
    >> I say again, how can any group that calls itself Christian practice
    >> anything except openness of purpose, calling, etc.?
    
        True.  There is a Christian group that is very large and well known
    	that refuses to give out any written statements of faith,
        beliefs, principals, etc. telling people that it doesnt have
        one (even though they publish their own monthly magazine).
    
        The group encourages people who inquire about them to instead study 
        with them in groups so they can then teach/persuade/pressure the
    	inquirers in the group's particular highly-questionable-Biblical 
        beliefs.
    
        I think this is equally deceitful.  Christ was always totally open
        as to his motives and his purpose.
    
    
        Bob
    
    

    Bob:
    
    I think I know who you are alluding to and I believe there has been
    some spirited conversation in this conference regarding them.  
    My personal feeling is that if you are in a church and you believe it
    is the only true church, i.e. The Way, etc., then you should boldly
    speak your convictions without any hesitation!!  Otherwise, you are
    ashamed of the church since their church is the only true vehicle to
    have fellowship with God.
    -Jack