| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 72.1 | also "...not my will, but thine..." | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Mon Mar 22 1993 10:38 | 23 |
| (.28)
Daryl,
In agreement on all but this nit:
> I find that I almost never pray for God's will to be done, simply
> because I've come to realize that His will is *always* done, and
> there is nothing that anyone or anything can do that is not in
> accordance with His will.
"Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done."
Eben though we know God's kingdom will come, and even though we know
God's will is going to happen, Jesus taught us to pray this way.
I wonder why? Also, towards this concept, what was God driving at
in Genesis 18:21, for verse 17 of that chapter shows that God is
going to destroy Sodom?
We need to pray for God's will to be done. Time to start another
topic, eh? ;-)
Mark
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| 72.2 | God moves through man... | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Mon Mar 22 1993 10:49 | 17 |
|
re.28
Daryl,
> I find that I almost never pray for God's will to be done, simply
> because I've come to realize that His will is *always* done, and
> there is nothing that anyone or anything can do that is not in
> accordance with His will.
God moves through man. Our prayer lays down the tracks for God's
move according to His will. We must specifically seek His will on every
matter and pray according to it. How else will His will be done?
regards,
ace
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| 72.3 | re: .29 | EVMS::GLEASON | The Word of God is living and active! | Mon Mar 22 1993 10:52 | 19 |
| Good question, and probably for another topic! :-)
Briefly, though, my current understanding is that Jesus told us to
pray for God's will to be done not because there was any question
that it would be, but rather so that we might be encouraged to
converse with Him and surrender our will to His, as He did in the
garden of Gethsemane. This gets into the issue of His perfect will
as compared to His permissive will, because He gave us free will, and
in our decisions we can either choose to surrender to what He wants
or to ignore (or not ask) for His input and instead do what we want.
His perfect will is that we make our requests of Him, then ask Him
what He wants done and finally do what He wishes, but He will permit
us not to. Regardless, though, His perfect plan cannot be thwarted
by anyone or anything on any level; it was this that I had in mind in
.28. :-)
In Christ,
*** Daryl ***
|
| 72.4 | | JULIET::MORALES_NA | Search Me Oh God | Mon Mar 22 1993 10:58 | 15 |
| >I find that I almost never pray for God's will to be done, simply
>because I've come to realize that His will is *always* done, and
We *most* certainly can change God's will for our lives... I'm living
proof. When I was 16 years old, I got the call to be a missionary to
Mexico... not just a surrender to service, but a call and a place given
to go to... But I backslid and I'm not a missionary in Mexico, I'm
secretary at Digital.. but what a mission field!!! :-) :-)
God can call us to do His work, but we can *choose* to go another
direction. Now, if your statement is truth, then as I see it we are
all just robots with no free will.
Nancy
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| 72.5 | re: .32 | EVMS::GLEASON | The Word of God is living and active! | Mon Mar 22 1993 11:14 | 9 |
| Nancy,
I think there's a misunderstanding, because I didn't at all mean to
imply that we couldn't diverge from God's will for our lives. If we
couldn't, then Adam and Eve would never have sinned. Did what I said
in .31 make any more sense to you?
*** Daryl ***
|
| 72.6 | AMEN, DARYL | JUPITR::DJOHNSON | Great is His Faithfulness | Mon Mar 22 1993 15:41 | 9 |
| > I find that I almost never pray for God's will to be done, simply
> because I've come to realize that His will is *always* done, and
> there is nothing that anyone or anything can do that is not in
> accordance with His will. My prayers have taken on the form of
> asking that He open my eyes more and more to His Spirit so that I
> will be more attuned to His will and His plan, partly so that I may
> share that knowledge as He sees fit.
|
| 72.7 | I *know* what you mean but... | JUPITR::DJOHNSON | Great is His Faithfulness | Mon Mar 22 1993 15:52 | 10 |
| RE: NOTE .34
Daryl,
I know what you mean but I also know the difficulty in explaining what
God has shown me so I usually keep it to myself. In reading the
subsequent replies, I must say that I don't disagree with them. It's
just deeper than that and beyond my current understanding.
Dave
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| 72.8 | | MIMS::PARISE_M | Southern, but no comfort | Tue Mar 23 1993 01:22 | 31 |
|
These last several replies reminded me of something I read recently
- from The Universal Prayer by Alexander Pope
Thou Great First Cause, least understood:
Who all my sense confined
To know but this, that Thou art good,
And that myself am blind;
Yet gave me, in this dark estate,
To see the good from ill;
And binding nature fast in fate,
Left free the human will.
What conscience dictates to be done,
Or warns me not to do,
This, teach me more than hell to shun,
That, more than heaven pursue.
What blessings Thy free bounty gives,
Let me not cast away;
For God is paid when man receives:
T' enjoy is to obey.
These lines (5-20) are from a poet's interpretation of the Lord's
Prayer put to verse.
|
| 72.9 | on God's will, etc. | DREUL1::rob | depending on His love | Tue Mar 23 1993 05:23 | 27 |
| I know that this is not the best topic for this, but since this is where the
discussion started...
I look at the will of God like a vineyard. God places us in the vineyard to
work to bring forth fruit for His glory. It's true that the vineyard will
grow and bring forth fruit without our help, but the vineyard itself will be
"wild", ie not properly pruned, etc. The kingdom of heaven is like that
vineyard. We pray for the will of God to come to pass, in order to help cul-
tivate the plants, get rid of the weeds, etc. When Jesus returns He will look
for us to have taken the "talents" that he has given us, and to have seen an
increase, ie more than that which would have come "on it's own".
In other words, God has designed His will such that it will get done regardless
of what we do, or don't do. But, there will be more fruit if we use what He
has given us for His glory (this includes, prayer and the gifts and abilities
that He has given us).
I do believe that it is possible for us to "miss" the will of God in some si-
tuations. But, that if the lives of many people are dependant on it, God is
able to prepare a large fish for us, should we try to flee to Tarshish :-) I
am also not so sure that everyone has a "call" of God for their life. I know
that some do not believe that He has a very specific will for anyone, but I
believe that God does call certain people to special ministries. All of us,
whether we have a "call" or not, are to live the will of God out in obedience
to His word.
Rob
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| 72.10 | | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Tue Mar 23 1993 09:17 | 5 |
| Replies .1 through .9 were moved from a ratholed topic to here.
Continue, if you please.
Mark Metcalfe
Christian Co-Mod
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| 72.11 | In any case, Praise The Lord! | ZPOVC::MICHAELLEE | | Tue Mar 23 1993 09:32 | 11 |
|
I was talking to a brother in Christ this morning who has just
lost a US$10 million order last week. His team-mates depended on
this order to 'survive' Q3.
My brother responded with "Praise the Lord". I guess many non-believers
will never be able to understand this attitude. Even in the face of
adversity, let His Name be glorified.
Mike
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| 72.12 | Sounds Pretty Calvinistic To Me | ESKIMO::BARBIERI | God can be so appreciated! | Thu Mar 25 1993 12:26 | 28 |
| Hi,
I've only gotten as far as .1, _but_
I question the assumption that God's will is always done!
Is it God's will that even a single individual be lost? Did
He choose anyone to sin a particular sin or to be lost? Is
this the God we serve?
(It sure isn't the One I serve!!!)
I don't have a problem with the phrase (in prayer) "Thy will
be done" and the way I see it is its a plea on the part of the
person praying to better be an instrument through which God's
will can be done. This would include being a perfect reflection
of the righteoussness of Christ. Having perfect words and deeds
at just the perfect time.
It appears to me that much of the crux (a fork) in this topic
is the fundamental question between free will and predestination.
If you're of the predestination posture, then fine, God's will
is so overwhelming that free choice is gone. If you are of the
free will side than we can be instruments in God's Hands to
constrain others to give their hearts over to God and that we
really can make a difference.
Tony
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| 72.13 | Clarification on Fulfillment of God's Will | ESKIMO::BARBIERI | God can be so appreciated! | Thu Mar 25 1993 12:37 | 24 |
| re: .11
Amen!
re: general discussion...
I seem to be hearing a consensus posture that God's will is sovereign,
that it always comes to pass and yet inferences seem to be made that
it not always does come to pass.
Again, to repeat from .12, I do not believe God's will comes to pass
in every case because God wants all persons to be saved, does He not?
And yet, some will be lost.
So...
What are some things that are God's will that will be accomplished
most definitely?
What are some things that are God's will that may not be accomplished?
This seems to not yet be clarified.
Tony
|
| 72.14 | Work is going on - His Will not always. | ELMAGO::RWRIGHT | Press On! | Thu Mar 25 1993 13:42 | 16 |
| re .12, .13
I agree, I believe God's work is being done, I'm not convinced that
God's will is automatically being done. For me, I want to be in the
center of God's will but this is not always the case. If I am doing
God's will then I am a part of God's work. God does not need me to be
at work in the world. I believe God is working in the world and it is
my choice to be a part of it. That is why I work in His Kingdom, give
finances, give time etc. - Because I want to be a part of His work. I
don't believe His Will is always happening. I don't believe it is His
Will for you or I to sin. But we do and have.
Not sure if this makes sense but....
-Robert<
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| 72.15 | Yes, Seems That Way To Me | ROULET::BARBIERI | God can be so appreciated! | Fri Mar 26 1993 12:09 | 14 |
| Hi Robert,
It sure makes sense to me! The way I understand what is being
stated here, there is contradiction to assert that God's will
is always accomplished and to discuss the general subject on that
basis and yet to infer that God's will is not always accomplished!
(????)
This would seem to suggest a need to back up and address these
confusions regarding God's will.
Thanks for the input Robert!
Tony
|