| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 45.1 | Reference to Note 7.3 | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Mon Mar 08 1993 15:48 | 19 |
| Deuteronomy 18:9-12 KJV
When thou art come into the land which the LORD they God giveth thee,
thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There
shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter
to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times,
or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar
spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are
an abonination unto the LORD: and because of these aboninations the LORD
thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
Note on verse 10: Perhaps one of the most atrocious elements of the religion
of Israel's neighbors in Canaan was the practice of human sacrifice. This
passage and others (Lev. 18:21; Lev 20:2) show how God hates this practice.
Yet, some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their sons to Molech, the
Ammorites national diety (2 Kings 16:3; 21:6; see note on 2 Kings 23:10).
The people of Judah even built a special high place where they could sacrifice
their sons and daughters (Jeremiah 7:31). All of this was done in
the worship of foriegn gods, which only served to intensify God's hatred
of it.
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| 45.2 | Just a few of many of the verses in the Bible... | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Mon Mar 08 1993 15:56 | 73 |
| Some of the following verses show an angry God, a God of Absolute Authority
Who declares an Absolute Morality, some show what is right and proper to
hate (yes, hate, for what does light have to do with darkness?):
Proverbs 6:16 -19
16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are]
an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and the hands that shed
innocent blood,
18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be
swift in running to mischeif,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth
discord among the brethren.
2 Chronicles 19:2
2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet
him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the
ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore [is]
wrath upon thee from before the LORD.
Proverbs 8:13
13 The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and
arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I
hate.
Psalms 97:10
10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the
souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of
the wicked.
Isaiah 61:8
8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt
offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will
make an everlasting covenant with them.
Jeremiah 44:4
4 Howbeit I sent unto you all my servants the prophets,
rising early and sending [them], saying, Oh, do not this
abominable thing that I hate.
Amos 5:21
21. I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell
in your solemn assemblies.
Amos 6:8
8. The Lord GOD hath sworn by himself, saith the LORD the
God of hosts, I abhor the excellency of Jacob, and hate his
palaces: therefore will I deliver up the city with all that
is therein.
Zechariah 8:17
17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against
his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these [are
things] that I hate, saith the LORD.
Revelation 2:6
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the
Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Revelation 2:15
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the
Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
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| 45.3 | A few more... | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Mon Mar 08 1993 16:16 | 114 |
| Hosea 9:15
15 All their wickedness [is] in Gilgal: for there I hated
them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them
out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their
princes [are] revolters.
Malachi 1:3
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his
heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Hebrews 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity;
therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the
oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Deuteronomy 7
25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with
fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold [that is] on
them, nor take [it] unto thee, lest thou be snared therein:
for it [is] an abomination to the LORD thy God.
26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine
house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: [but] thou shalt
utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it
[is] a cursed thing.
Jeremiah 16:18
18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their
sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have
filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their
detestable and abominable things.
Ezekiel 5:11
11 Wherefore, [as] I live, saith the Lord GOD; Surely,
because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy
detestable things, and with all thine abominations,
therefore will I also diminish [thee]; neither shall mine
eye spare, neither will I have any pity.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Romans 12:9
9 [Let] love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is
evil; cleave to that which is good.
Read all of Leviticus 26
Leviticus 26:30
30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your
images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your
idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Deuteronomy 12:31
31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every
abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done
unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters
they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deuteronomy 16:22
22 Neither shalt thou set thee up [any] image; which the
LORD thy God hateth.
Proverbs 13:5
5. A righteous [man] hateth lying: but a wicked [man] is
loathsome, and cometh to shame.
Isaiah 1:14
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul
hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear
[them].
Malachi 2:16
16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth
putting away: for [one] covereth violence with his garment,
saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit,
that ye deal not treacherously.
2 Chronicles 29:6
6 For our fathers have trespassed, and done [that which
was] evil in the eyes of the LORD our God, and have forsaken
him, and have turned away their faces from the habitation of
the LORD, and turned [their] backs.
Proverbs 28:9
9. He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even
his prayer [shall be] abomination.
Jeremiah 6:15
15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush:
therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time
[that] I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 8:12
12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush:
therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time
of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
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| 45.4 | | AUSSIE::CAMERON | and God sent him FORTH (Gen 3:23) | Mon Mar 08 1993 20:58 | 11 |
| Re: 7.3
Thanks, Karen, that was great to hear.
Reminds me of when people ask me what "star sign" I am. I ask them
whether they think astrology actually works? They assume that I
believe it is nonsense. I say that it doesn't matter to me whether it
works or not because God told me to have nothing to do with people who
use it.
James
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| 45.5 | Question | TROOA::RECEPTIONIST | | Tue Mar 09 1993 09:32 | 2 |
| In Deuteronomy 7:26, is the detestable thing a statue of a god? Could
it be a statue (present day example) of a wizard, or dragon?
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| 45.6 | | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Tue Mar 09 1993 10:44 | 18 |
| > In Deuteronomy 7:26, is the detestable thing a statue of a god? Could
> it be a statue (present day example) of a wizard, or dragon?
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, Deborah. A statue can be a memorial,
like one of George Washington in a park, or it can be a representation of
something that we worship, such as a golden calf, Bhuddah, or a BMW.
If an object is or becomes an object of worship, it is detestable, whatever
its form. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." "Thou shalt
not make unto thee any graven images."
The greatest commandment (not suggestion) is to "Love the LORD your
God with *all* your heart, with *all* your soul, and *all* your strength."
"And love your neighbor as yourself." When anything is out of place in
the strata of priority, it is an afront to the place God should have,
and an abomination to Him.
Mark
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| 45.7 | Dragons | AUSSIE::CAMERON | and God sent him FORTH (Gen 3:23) | Tue Mar 09 1993 21:42 | 33 |
| Re: Note 45.5 by TROOA::RECEPTIONIST
> In Deuteronomy 7:26, is the detestable thing a statue of a god? Could
> it be a statue (present day example) of a wizard, or dragon?
In and of themselves, statues are merely inanimate matter. So are
guns. And hammers. And cars (BMWs). They are neither good nor evil.
I think the aim of the verse is to prevent the people from adopting the
gods of the other people, and prevent them from taking over other
nations merely for the gold and silver that is in their statues. It
also ensures that any captured people get converted or allowed to
leave eventually.
It would be relevant today only if, say, you purchased a statue of
something that was worshipped as an idol by others, or if you really
were thinking of taking over the land of another people.
It is the fact that it is worshipped that makes such an object
detestable.
So, putting it back into the terms of your question, a statue of a
wizard or dragon is only detestable if someone, somewhere, worships
such statues. I, personally, would go so far as to say that only if
they are likely to see the statue would I bother to remove and destroy
it.
Also, if you feel that the presence of such a statue might lead others
astray, then there are other verses in the bible that you can read up
on and "connect" to this situation. It's in Acts where Paul (?) is
convinced that eating pigs is OK. (I think).
James
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| 45.8 | It's the actions | SWAM1::BOHN_ER | Boo-Boo Bohn | Fri Mar 26 1993 14:46 | 12 |
| Hi everyone!
The impression that I have received from God and about God is that he
doesn't hate beings but actions. He even loves Satan, but hates the
things Satan does. What an insane spirit who knows scripture and
prophecy, knows what is going to happen in the future and what is going
to happen to himself, but keeps on doing the deceptive things he/she(I
don't even know if Satan has a gender) does!!
Lovin' in the Lord
E. Bontonovinchi
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| 45.9 | SIN | WR1FOR::POLICRITI_GR | | Tue Mar 30 1993 16:32 | 4 |
| I believe the only thing God may hate is "SIN." Not the sinner now,
but "SIN."
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| 45.11 | | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Tue Sep 06 1994 10:24 | 9 |
| > 'God is angry with the wicked every day'.
>
> Psalm 7:11
Do you think anger and hatred are the same thing, Greg?
Do you think there is a pure hatred that God can possess and remain holy?
How would you like this verse to contribute to this topic?
Mark
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| 45.12 | another good question | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Sep 15 1994 13:51 | 3 |
| Re: -1
...did God create hate?
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| 45.13 | Did God create Hate? | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Thu Sep 15 1994 14:54 | 59 |
| > ...did God create hate?
God said that he loved Jacob and hated Esau. Hold that for a moment.
Lets go back to where nothing exists that we know, except God - even putting
pre-our-world possibilities of others (angels) aside.
Q: Is there such a thing as a pure hatred, and what is it?
Read on.
Q: Does hatred have to include evil? (Does love have to be love for good?)
If Satan hates the things of God, then hatred is separate from the
idea that hatred is the hatred of bad things; hatred can include hating
good things.
Q: Can hatred exist outside of a person?
No. Hatred is an expression of someone towards something.
Hatred is an emotional expression, not altogether different than love,
joy, embarrasment, pride, happiness...
Q: Did God create hatred?
I believe (note change in dialog using this phrase), that God, the
Ultimate Person possesses emotional expressions (except maybe
embarrassment, eh?). Anything thought to be negative, such as hate
MUST MUST MUST be understood from the perspective of a pure, holy,
and righteous God of all things. When we understand this perspective,
and God says he hates certain things, it MUST MUST MUST be a pure,
holy, and righteous hatred, uncontaminated by our human fleshly
pollutants and self-indulgences. We then begin to understand that
the hatred that God possesses is "other" than the hatred we possess
in that His motives and perspective is righteous; ours are not. It is
the same hatred, but it might help to think that He has pure olive oil
while we have dead flies in our olive oil. Yeah, its olive oil, but
ours is not really suitable for proper use.
When God created man in His image, God created man with the capacity
to create; we are creative beings. God created man with the gammit
of emotions, too, and I believe it is here where hatred is "made
available" to man (created in mankind). Unfortunately, we've bungled
how to use it properly, just as we've bungled how to use love properly
and have perverted the use of love into all kinds of sexual immorality.
We have also perverted hatred into murder, stealing, and violence, and
the like. Because of this, it is difficult for us to imagine what
righteous hatred is, just as we still struggle with agape love.
Instead of dismissing the concept that God could possess the quality and
capacity to hate, we should realize that this is just as false as the
person who dismisses God's grace because they cannot believe that God
could love them enough to extend his mercy towards them.
Lastly, I think hatred is part of the "color scheme" of existence that
provides contrast - not an yin and yang, because I believe some emotions
are meant to be greater than others - but when used in proper context,
helps to provide definition and distinction.
Mark
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| 45.14 | perfect hatred | DNEAST::DALELIO_HENR | | Thu Sep 15 1994 15:28 | 10 |
|
Re .13 MM
Well said.
In one of the Psalms David says (Re the wicked) I have hated them with a
perfect hatred. Apparently he learned how to "hate" the way our heavenly
Father "hates".
Hank
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| 45.15 | Don't try this at home - I AM [is] a professional | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Thu Sep 15 1994 15:34 | 8 |
| > Apparently he learned how to "hate" the way our heavenly
> Father "hates".
Yes, maybe. Knowing my human frailties, I wonder if anyone could
rid themselves of the flies and have a pure hatred for what God
hates (as opposed to convincing oneself that God hates something
to justify our own hatred). So one has to be EXTREMELY careful
in wielding hatred - and love, for that matter.
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| 45.17 | about the fear of the Lord in Proverbs | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Thu Sep 15 1994 16:16 | 40 |
| > the fear of the Lord is to hate evil.
> and it says
> the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
> so to begin to gain wisdom one must hate evil.
Well... I suppose that's one way of seeing it. Here are some more Proverbs
about the Fear of the Lord, since you brought it up.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools
despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy,
and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the
knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Proverbs 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the
wicked shall be shortened.
Proverbs 14:26 In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children
shall have a place of refuge.
27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of
death.
Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before
honour is humility.
Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the
LORD men depart from evil.
Proverbs 19:23 The fear of the LORD tendeth to life: and he that hath it
shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.
Proverbs 22:4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour,
and life.
Proverbs 23:17 Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of
the LORD all the day long.
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| 45.18 | good stuff | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Sep 15 1994 17:47 | 6 |
| Nicely done, Mark. The only thing where I would slightly respectfully
disagree is in placing the blame. I think Satan twisted and
counterfeited many emotions: hate/anger->animosity, love->lust, etc.
We do some on our own, but I think Satan owns some responsibility too.
Mike
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| 45.19 | | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Fri Sep 16 1994 16:25 | 10 |
| > The only thing where I would slightly respectfully
> disagree is in placing the blame. I think Satan twisted and
> counterfeited many emotions: hate/anger->animosity, love->lust, etc.
> We do some on our own, but I think Satan owns some responsibility too.
Well, okay. I can buy that. But "the Devil made me do it"
seems to be a pretty weak excuse for so easily accepting the
counterfeit in the garden. Cause and effect, action and consequence.
MM
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| 45.20 | | POWDML::SMCCONNELL | Next year, in Jerusalem! | Fri Sep 16 1994 16:32 | 9 |
| (tangent)
Good point - "the devil made me do it" is a poor exuse. Yes - the
devil *tempts* us, and yes, sometimes, sadly, we yield our members to
his temptation rather than to Messiah - but it seems to me we're on the
hook to "choose this day whom [we] will serve"; i.e., we should choose
to yield our members to the L-rd. See also 1Cor. 10:13.
Steve
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| 45.21 | Replies moved to be a new topic | ICTHUS::YUILLE | He must increase - I must decrease | Mon Apr 10 1995 13:14 | 6 |
|
Replies 45.21-45.l moved on request to be a new note (713), as they
effectively have their own topic.
Andrew Yuille
co-mod
|