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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

30.0. "Pilgrim's Progress Anecdotes" by TOKNOW::METCALFE (Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers) Mon Mar 01 1993 15:49

I am going to take some time (wherever I can steal it) to read the
Pilgrim's Progress, by John Bunyan (complete and unabridged edition).

I have already come across some wonderful anecdotes that I want to 
share with you without comment in this string.  John Bunyan makes quite
a comment by himself in the language of King James.

For those of you who may not know, Pilgrim's Progress is the story of
a man named Christian, written by John Bunyan as is by a dream.  Christian
has his home in the City of Destruction. But Christian has read in a book 
that his city is doomed.  He is met by a man called Evangelist who points
Christian in the direction of the Celestial City.

"Then said Evangelist, "if this be thy condition, why standest thou still?"
He answered, "Because I know not whither to go."  Then he gave him a 
parchment roll, and there was written within, "Fly from the wrath to come."

The man [Christian] therefore read it, and looking upon Evangelist very 
carefully, said, "Whither must I fly?"  

Then said Evangelist, pointing with his finger over a very wide field, 
"Do you see yonder Wicket-gate?"  The man said, "No,"
Then said the other, "Do you see yonder shining light?"  He said,
"I think I do."  Then said Evangelist, "Keep that light in your eye,
and go up directly thereto: so shalt thou see the gate; at which, when
thou knockest, it shall be told to thee what thou shalt do."

Mark Metcalfe
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30.1Beware the counsel of the world's wisdomTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersMon Mar 01 1993 15:5185
    Worldly Wiseman:  Wilt thou harken to me if I give thee counsel?

    Christian:  If it be good, I will; for I stand in need of good
    counsel.

    Worldly Wiseman:  I would advise thee, then, that thou with all
    speed get thyself rid of thy burden; for thou wilt never be
    settled in thy mind until then; nor canst thou enjoy the
    benefits of the blessing which God hath bestowed upon thee till
    then.

    Christian:  That is that which I seek for, even to be rid of
    this heavy burden; but get it off myself I cannot, not is there
    a man in our country that can take it off my shoulders;
    therefore am I going this way, as I told you, that I may be rid
    of my burden.

    Worldly Wiseman:  Who bid thee go this way to be rid of thy
    burden?

    Christian:  A man that appeared to me to be a very great and
    hounourable person; his name, as I remember, is Evangelist.

    Worldly Wiseman:  I beshrew him for his counsel: there is not a
    more dangerous and troublesome way in the world than is that
    unto which he hath directed thee; and that thou shalt find, if
    thou wilt be ruled by his counsel.  Thou has met with something,
    as I perceive, already; for I see the dirt of the Slough of
    Despond is upon thee; but that slough is the beginning of the
    sorrows that do attend those that go on in that way.  Hear me, I
    am older than thou! thou art like to meet with, in the way which
    thou goest, wearisomeness, painfulness, hunger, perils,
    nakedness, swrod, lions, dragons, darkness, and, in a word,
    death, and what not?  These things are certainly true, having
    been confirmed by many testimonies.  And why should a man so
    carelessly cast away himself, by giving heed to a stranger?

    Christian:  Why, sir, this burden upon my back is more terrible
    to me than are all these things which you have mentioned; nay;
    methinks I care not what I meet with in the way, so be I can
    also meet with deliverance from my burden.

    Worldly Wiseman: How camest thou by the burden at first?

    Christian: By reading this book in my hand.

    Worldly Wiseman:  I thought so; and it has happened unto thee as
    to other weak men, who, meddling with things too high for them,
    do suddenly fall into thy distractions; which distractions do
    not only unman men, as thine I perceive has done thee, but they
    run them upon desparate ventures to obtain what they know not
    what.

    Christian:  I know what I would obtain; it is ease for my heavy
    burden.

    Worldly Wiseman:  But why wilt thou seek for ease this way,
    seeing so many dangers attend it?  Especially, since (hadst thou
    but patience to hear me) I could direct thee to the obtaining of
    what thou desirest, without the dangers that thou in this way
    wilt run thyself into; yea, and the remedy is at hand.  Besides,
    I will add, that instead of those dangers, thou shalt meet with
    much safety, friendship, and content.

    Christian: Pray, sir, open this secret to me.

    Worldly Wiseman:  Why, in yonder village (the village is named
    Morality) there dwells a gentleman, whose name is Legality, a
    very judicious man, and a man of a very good name, that has
    skill to help men off with such burdens as thine are, from their
    shoulders: yea, to my knowledge he hath done a great deal of
    good this way; ay, and besides, he hath skill to cure those that
    are somewhat crazed in their wits with their burdens.  To him,
    as I said, thou mayest go, and be helped presently.  His house
    in not quite a mile from this place, and if he should not be at
    home himself, he hath a pretty young man to his son, whose name
    is Civility, that can do it (to speak on) as well as the old
    gentleman himself; there, I say, thou mayest be eased of thy
    burden; and if thou art not minded to go back to thy former
    habitation, as indeed I would not wish thee, thou mayest send
    for thy wife and children to thee to this village, where there
    are houses now stand empty, one of which thou mayest have at
    reasonable rates; provision is there also cheap and good; and
    that which will make life the more happy is, to be sure there
    thou shalt live by honest neighbors, in credit and good fashion.
30.2Patience has its rewardTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersMon Mar 01 1993 15:5336
    I saw moreover in my dream, that the Interpreter took him by the
    hand, and had him into a little room, where sat two little
    children, each one in his chair.  The name of the eldest was
    Passion, and the name of the other Patience.  Passion seemed to
    be in much discontent; but Patience was very quiet.  Then
    Christian asked, "Whatis the reson of the discontent of
    Passion?"  The Interpreter answered, "The governor of them would
    have him stay for his best things till the beginning of the next
    year; but he will have all now, but Patience is willing to
    wait."

    Then I saw that one came to passion, and brought him a bag of
    treasure, and poured it down at his feet, the which he took up
    and rejoiced therein; and withal, laughed Patience to scorn.
    But I beheld but a while, and he had lavished it all away, and
    had nothing left him but rags.

    ...

    "Now I see that patience has the best wisdom, and that upon many
    accounts.  (1) Because he stays for the best things; (2) and
    also because he will have the glory of his, when the other hath
    nothing but rags."

    "Nay, you may add another, to wit, the glory of the next world
    will never wear out; but these are suddenly gone.  Therefore
    Passion had not so much reason to laugh at Patience, because he
    had his goo things first, as Patience will have to laugh at
    Passion, because he had his best things last; for first must
    give place to last, because last must have his time to come: but
    last gives place to nothing, for there is not another to
    succeed.  He therefore that hath his portion first, must needs
    have a time to spend it; but he that has his portion last, must
    have it lastingly.  Therefore it is said of Dives, 'In thy
    lifetime thou receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus
    evil things; but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.'"
30.3When the Spirit is offended, hope is goneTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersMon Mar 01 1993 16:2959
    Christian: "What art thou?"  The man answered, "I am what I was
    not once."

    Christian: What wast thou once?

    Man: I was once a fair and flourishing professor, both in mine
    own eyes, and also in the eyes of others: I once was, as I
    thought, fair for the Celestial City, and had then even joy at
    the thoughts that I should get thither.

    Christian: Well, but what art thou now?

    Man: I am now a man of despiar, and am shut up in it, as in this
    iron cage.  I cannot get out; Oh, _now_ I cannot.

    Christian:  But how caest thou to this condition?

    Man: I left off to watch and be sober; I laid the reins upon the
    neck of my lusts; I sinned against the light of the Word, and
    the goodness of God; I have grieved the Spirit, and he is gone;
    I tempted the devil and he is come to me; I have provoked God to
    anger, and he has left me; I have so hardened my heart, that I
    cannot repent.

    The said Christian to the interpreter, "But is there no hopes
    for such a man as this?  "Ask him," said the Interpreter.

    Christian: Is there no hope but you must be kept in the iron
    cage of despair?

    Man: No, none at all.

    Christian: Why?  The Son of the Blessed is very pitiful.

    Man: I have crucified him to myself afreash, I have despised his
    person, I have despised his righteousness, I have counted his
    blood an unholy thing; I have done despite to the Spirit of
    Grace: therefore I have shut myself out of all the promises, and
    there now remains to me nothing but threatenings, dreadful
    threatenings, fearful threatenings of certain judgment and fiery
    indignation, which shall devour me as an adversary.

    Christian: For what did you bring yourself into this condition?

    Man: For the lusts, pleasures, and profits of this world; in the
    enjoyment of which I did then promise myself much delight; but
    now every one of those things also bite me, and gnaw me like a
    burning worm.

    Christian: But canst thou not now repent and turn?

    Man: God hath denied me repentance: his Word gives me no
    encouragement to believe; yea, himself hath shut me up in this
    iron cage; nor can all the men in the world let me out.  O
    eternity! eternity! how shall I grapple with the misery that i
    must meet in eternity!

    Interpreter:  Let this man's misery be remembered by thee, and
    be an everlasting caution to thee.
30.4Simple, Sloth, and PresumptionTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersMon Mar 01 1993 16:3024
    I saw then in my dream that he went on thus, even until he came
    at a bottom, where he saw, a little out of the way, three men
    fast asleep, with fetters upon their heels.  The name of the one
    was Simple, another Sloth, and the third Presumption.

    Christian then seeing them lie in this case, went to them, if
    peradventure he might awake them, and cried, "You are like them
    that sleep on the top of the mast, for the Dead Sea is under
    you, a gulf that hath no bottom.  Awake therefore and come away;
    be willing also, and I will help you off with your irons."  He
    also told them, "If he that goeth about like a roaring lion
    comes by, you will certainly become prey to his teeth."

    With that they looked upon him, and began to reply in this sort:

    Simple said, "I see no danger;"

    Sloth said, "Yet a little more sleep;"

    And Presumption said, "Every vat must stand upon his own
    bottom."

    And so they lay down to sleep again, and Christian went on his
    way.
30.5Battle with Apollyon: Part 1 of 2TOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersThu Mar 04 1993 16:0798
    Apollyon: Whence come you and whither are you bound?

    Christian:  I am come from the City of Destruction, which is the
    place of all evil, and am going to the City of Zion.

    Apollyon: By this I perceive thou art one of my subjects, for
    all that country is mine; and I the prince and god of it.  How
    is it then that thou hast run away from thy king?  Were it not
    that I hope thou mayest do me more service, I would strike thee
    now at one blow to the ground.

    Christian: I was born indeed in your dominions, but your service
    was hard, and your wages of sin is death [Romans 6:23]; therefore
    when I was come to years, I did as other considerate persons do,
    look out, if perhaps I might mend myself.

    Apollyon: There is no prince that will thus lightly lose his
    subjects, neither will I as yet lose thee: but since thou
    complainest of thy service and wages, be content to go back; and
    what our country will afford, I do here promise to give thee.

    Christian: But I have let myself to another, even to the King of
    princes, and how can I with fairness go back with thee?

    Apollyon: Thou hast done in this, according to the proverb,
    changed a bad for a worse; but it is ordinary for those that
    have professed themselves his servants, after a while to give
    him the slip, and return again to me. Do thou so too, and all
    shall be well.

    Christian: I have given him my faith, and sworn my allegiance to
    him; how then can I go back from this, and not be hanged as a
    traitor?

    Apollyon: Thou didst the same to me, and yet I am willing to
    pass by all, if now thou wilt yet turn again and go back.

    Christian: What I promised thee was in my nonage [period of
    immaturity]; and besides, I count that the Prince under whose
    banner now I stand, is able to absolve me; yea, and to pardon
    also what I did as to my compliance with thee. And besides, O
    thou destroyer Apollyon, to speak truth, I like His service, His
    wages, His servants, His government, His company, and country
    better than thine; and therefore leave off to persuade me
    further, I an His servant, and I will follow Him.

    Apollyon: Consider again when thou are in cool blood, what thou
    art like to meet with in the way that thou goest.  Thou knowest
    that for the most part, his servants come to an ill end, because
    they are transgressors to me and my ways.  How many of them have
    been put to shameful deaths!  And besides, thou countest his
    service better than mine, whereas he never came yet from the
    place where he is, to deliver any that served him out of our
    hands; but as for me, how many times, as all the world very well
    knows, have I delivered, either by power or fraud, those that
    have faithfully served me, from Him and His, though taken by
    them, and so I will deliver thee.

    Christian: His forbearing at present to deliver them is on
    purpose to try their love, whether they will cleave to him to the
    end: and as for the ill end thou sayest they come to, that is
    most glorious in their account: For, for present deliverance,
    they do not much expect it; for they stay for their glory, and
    then they shall have it, when their Prince comes in His, and the
    glory of the angels.

    Apollyon: Thou hast already been unfaithful in thy service to
    him, and how dost thou think to receive wages of him?

    Christian: Wherein, O Apollyon, have I been unfaithful to him?

    Apollyon:  Thou didst faint at the first setting out, when thou
    was almost choked in the Gulf of Despond; thou didst attempt
    wrong ways to be rid of thy burden, whereas thou shouldest have
    stayed till thy Prince had taken it off; thou didst sinfully
    sleep and lose thy choice thing; thou wast almost persuaded to
    go back at the sight of the lions; and when thou talkest of thy
    journey, and of what thou hast heard and seen, thou art inwardly
    desirous of vainglory in all thou sayest and doest.

    Christian: All this is true, and much more, which thou hast left
    out; but the Prince whom I serve and honour is merciful, and
    ready to forgive; but besides, these infirmities possessed me in
    thy country, for there I sucked them in, and I have groaned
    under them, been sorry for them, and have obtained pardon of my
    Prince.

    Then Apollyon broke out in a grievous rage, saying, "I am the
    enemy of this Prince; I hate His person, His laws, and people; I
    am come out on purpose to withstand thee."

    Christian: Apollyon, beware what you do, for I am in the King's
    highway, the way of holiness, therefore take heed to yourself.

    Then Apollyon straddled quite over the whole breadth of the way,
    and said, "I am void of fear in this matter, prepare thyself to
    die; for I swear by my infernal den that thou shalt go no
    further; here I will spill thy soul."
30.6The Battle with Apollyon: Part 2 of 2TOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersThu Mar 04 1993 19:0045
    And with that He threw a flaming dart at his breast, but
    Christian had a shield in his hand, with which he caught it, and
    so prevented the danger of that.

    Then did Christian draw, for he saw 'twas time to bestir him;
    and Apollyon as fast made at him, throwing darts as thick as
    hail; by the which, notwithstanding all that Christian could do
    to avoid it, Apollyon wounded him in his head, his hand, and
    foot.  This made Christian give a little back; Apollyon,
    therefore, followed his work amain, and Christian again took
    courage, and resisted as manfully as he could.  This sore combat
    lasted for above half a day, even till Christian was almost
    quite spent.  For you must know that Christian, by reason of his
    wounds, must needs grow weaker and weaker.

    Then Apollyon, espying his opportunity, began to gather up close
    to Christian, and wrestling with him gave him a dreadful fall;
    and with that Christian's sword fell out of his hand.  Then said
    Apollyon, "I am sure of thee now!"  And with that, he had almost
    pressed him to death, so that Christian began to despair of
    life.  But as God would have it, while Apollyon was fetching of
    his last blow, thereby to make a full end of a good man,
    Christian nimbly reached out his hand for his sword, and caught
    it saying, "Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy!  When I fall,
    I shall arise [Micah 7:8];" and with that gave him a deadly
    thrust, which made him give back, as one that had received his
    mortal wound.  Christian perceiving that, made at him again,
    saying, "Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors,
    through him that loved us. [Romans 8:37]"  And with that
    Apollyon spread forth his dragon's wings and sped him away, that
    Christian saw him no more [James 4:7].

    In this combat no man can imagine, unless he had seen and heard
    as I did, what yelling, and hideous roaring Apollyon made all
    the time of the fight, he spake like a dragon; and on the other
    side, what sighs and groans burst from Christian's heart.  I
    never saw him all the while give so much as one pleasant look,
    till he perceived he had wounded Apollyon with his two-edged
    sword; then indeed he did smile, and look upward; but 'twas the
    dreadfullest sight that I ever saw.

    So that when the battle was over, Christian said, "I will here
    give thanks to him that hath delivered me out of the mouth of
    the lion; to him that did help me against Apollyon."
    
30.7TOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersThu Mar 11 1993 12:2317
Evangelist:  ...

I have sowed, and you have reaped; and the day is coming, when both he
that sowed and they that reaped shall rejoice together [John 4:36];
that is, if you hold out; for in due time ye shall reap if you faint not.
The crown is before you, and it is an incorruptible one; so run, that
you may obtain it [Galatians 6:9; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27].  Some there
be that set out for this crown, and after they have gone far for it, 
another comes in, and takes it from them; 'hold fast therefore that you 
have, let no man take your crown [Revelation 3:11].'  You are not yet out
of gun-shot of the devil; you have not resisted unto blood, striving
against sin; let the kingdom be always before you, and believe
steadfastly concerning things that are invisible.  Let nothing that is
on this side the other world get within you; and above all, look well
to your own hearts, and to the lusts thereof, for they are deceitful
above all things, and desperately wicked; set your faces like a flint;
you have all power in heaven and earth on your side.
30.8Christian and the AthiestTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersWed Mar 31 1993 15:3154
    Christian: We are going to Mount Zion.

    Then Athiest fell into a very great laughter.

    Christian: What is the meaning of your laughter?

    Athiest: I laugh to see what ignorant persons you are, to take
    upon you so tedious a journey; and yet are like to have nothing
    for your travel but pains.

    Christian: Why, man?  Do you think we shall not be received?

    Athiest:  Received!  There is no such place as you dream of, in
    all this world.

    Christian:  But there is in the world to come.

    Athiest: When I was at home in mine own country, I heard as you
    now affrim, and, from that hearing went out to see, and have
    been seeking this city twenty years: But find no more of it,
    than I did the first day I set out.  [Jeremiah 22:12;
    Ecclesiastes 1:15]

    Christian: We have both heard and believe that there is such a
    place to be found.

    Athiest: Had not I, when at home, believed, I had not come thus
    far to seek: But finding none (and yet I should, had there been
    such a place to be found, for I have gone to seek it further
    than you), I am going back again, and will seek to refresh
    myself with the things that I then cast away, for the hopes of
    that which I now see is not.

    Then said Christian to Hopeful his fellow, "Is it true which
    this man hath said?"

    Hopeful:  Take heed, he is one of the Flatterers; remember what
    it hath cost us once already for our hearkening to such kind of
    fellows.  What! no Mount Zion?  Did we not see from the
    Delectable Mountains the gate of this city?  Also, are we not
    now to walk by faith?  Ley us go on, said Hopeful, lest the man
    with the whip overtake us again.  You should have taught me that
    lesson, which I will round you in the ears withal: 'Cease, my
    son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words
    of knowledge,'  I say, my brother, cease to hear him, and let us
    believe to the saving of the soul.  [2 Corinthians 5:7; Proverbs
    19:27; Hebrews 10:39]

    Christian: My brother, I did not put the question to theee for
    that I doubted of the truth of our belief myself, but to prove
    thee, and to fetch from thee a fruit of the honesty of thy
    heart.  As for this man, I know that he is blinded by the god of
    this world.  Let thee and I go on, knowing that we have belief
    of the truth, and 'no lie is of the truth.' [1 John 2:21]
30.9Hopeful's conversion testimonyTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersWed Mar 31 1993 15:3247
    Hopeful: ...as I thought, I saw the Lord Jesus look down from
    heaven upon me, and saying, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
    and thou shalt be saved.' [Acts 16:30, 31]

    But I replied, 'Lord, I am a ghreat, a very great sinner': and
    He answered, 'My grace is sufficient for thee.' [2 Corinthians
    12:9]  Then I said, 'But, Lord, whatis believing?'  And then I
    saw from that saying, 'He that cometh to me shall never hunger,
    and he that believeth on me shall never thirst,' [John 6:35]
    that believing and coming was all one; and that he that came,
    that is, ran out in his heart and affections after salvation by
    Christ, he indeed believed in Christ.  Then the water stood in
    my eyes, and I asked further, 'But, Lord, may such a great
    sinner as I am be indeed accepted of thee, and be saved by
    thee?'  And I heard him say, 'And him that cometh to me I will
    in no wise cast out.' [John 6:37]  Then I said, 'But how, Lord,
    must I consider of thee in my coming to thee, that my faith may
    be placed aright upon thee?' Then he said, 'Christ Jesus came
    into the world to save sinners.' 'He is the end of the law for
    rightousness to everyone that believes.' [1 Timothy 1:15, Romans
    10:4] 'He died for our sins, and rose again for our
    justification: He loved us and washed us from our sins in his
    own blood.' 'He is Mediator' between God and us.  'He ever
    liveth to make intercession for us.' [Romans 4:25; Hebrews 7:24,
    25]  From all which I gathered, that I must look for
    righteousness in His person, and for satisfaction for my sins by
    His blood; that what He did in obedience to His Father's law,
    and in submitting to the penalty thereof, was not for himself,
    but for him that will accept it for his salvation, and be
    thankful.  And now was my heart full of joy, mine eyes full of
    tears, and mine affections running over with love to the name,
    people, and ways of Jesus Christ.

    Christian:  This was a revelation of Christ to your soul indeed;
    but tell me particularly what effect this had on your spirit.

    Hopeful:  It made me see thatall the world, notwithstanding all
    the righteousness thereof, is in a state of condemnation.  It
    made me see that God the Father, though he be just, can justly
    justify the coming sinner.  It made me greatly ashamed of the
    vileness of my former life, and confounded me with the sense of
    mine own ignorance; for there never came thought into mine heart
    before now, that showed me so the beauty of Jesus Christ.  It
    made me love a holy life, and long to do something for the honor
    and glory of the name of the Lord Jesus.  Yea, I thought, that
    had I now a thousand gallons of blood in my body, I could spill
    is all for the sake of the Lord Jesus."
30.10Christian speaks to IgnoranceTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersWed Mar 31 1993 15:3351
    Christian:  Come, how do you?  How stands it between God and
    your soul now?

    Ignorance:  I hope well; for I am always full of good motions,
    that come into my mind, to comfort me as I walk.

    Christian:  What good motions?  Pray tell us.

    Ignorance:  Why, I think of God and heaven.

    Christian:  So do the devils and damned souls.

    Ignorance:  But I think of them, and desire them.

    Christian:  So do many that are never like to come there. 'The
    soul of the sluggard desires, and hath nothing.' [Proverbs 13:4]

    Ignorance:  But I think of them, and leave all for them.

    Christian:  That I doubt, for leaving of all is an hard matter;
    yea, a harder matter than many are aware of.  But why, or by
    what, art thou persuaded that thou hast left all for God and
    heaven?

    Ignorance:  My heart tells me so.

    Christian:  The wise man says, 'He that trusts his own heart is
    a fool.' [Proverbs 28:26]

    Ignorance:  This is spoken of an evil heart, but mine is a good
    one.

    Christian:  But how dost thou prove that?

    Ignorance:  It comforts me in hopes of heaven.

    Christian:  That may be, through its deceitfulness; for a man's
    heart may minister comfort to him in the hopes of that thing for
    which yet he has no ground to hope.

    Ignorance:  But my heart and life agree together, and therefore
    my hope is well grounded.

    Christian:  Who told thee that thy heart and life agree
    together?

    Ignorance:  My heart tells me so.

    Christian:  Ask my fellow if I be a thief!  Thy heart tells thee
    so!  Except the Word of God beareth witness in this matter,
    other testimony is of no value.
30.11Christian and Ignorance on JustificationTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersWed Mar 31 1993 16:1670
    Ignorance:  Do you think that I am such a fool, as to think God
    can see no further than I? or, that I would come to God in the
    best of my performances?

    Christian:  Why, how dost thou think in this matter?

    Ignorance:  Why, to be short, I think I must believe in Christ
    for justification.

    Christian:  How! think thou must believe in Christ, when thou
    seest not thy need of him!  Thou neither seest thy original nor
    actual infirmities; but hast such an opinion of thyself, and of
    what thou doest, as plainly renders thee to be one that did
    never see a necessity of Christ's personal righteousness to
    justify thee before God: How thou say, I believe in Christ?

    Ignorance:  I believe well enough for all that.

    Christian:  How dost thou believe?

    Ignorance:  I believe that Christ died for sinners, and that I
    shall be justified before God fromthe curse through his gracious
    acceptance of my obedience to his law: Or thus, Christ makes my
    duties that are religious, acceptable to his Father by virtue of
    his merits; and so I shall be justified.

    Christian:  Let me answer to this confession of thy faith.

    1. Thou believesth with a fantastical belief, for this faith is
    nowhere describes in the Word.

    2. Thou believest with a false faith, because it taketh
    justification from the personal righteousness of Christ, and
    applies it to thy own.

    3. This faith maketh not Christ a justifier of thy person, but
    of thy actions; and of thy person for thy actions' sake, which
    is false.

    4. Therefore this faith is deceitful, even such as will leave
    thee under wrath in the day of God Almighty; for true justifying
    faith puts the soul, as sensible of its lost condition by the
    law, upon the flying for refuge unto Christ's righteousness
    (which righteousness of *His*, is not an act of grace, by which
    he maketh for justification *thy* obedience accepted with God,
    but *His* personal obedience to the law in doing and suffering
    for us, what that required at our hands) -- This righteousness,
    I say, true fiath accepteth; under the skirt of which, the soul
    being shrouded, and by it presented as spotless before God, it
    is accepted, and acquit from condemnation.

    Ignorance: What! Would you have us trust to what Christ is his
    own person has done without us?  This conceit would loosen the
    reins of our lust, and tolerate us to live as we list.  For what
    matter how we live, if we may be justified by Christ's personal
    righteousness from all, when we believe it?
    Christian:  Ignorance is thy name, and as thy name is, so art
    thou; even this thy answer demonstrateth what I say.  Ignorant
    thou art of what justifying righteousness is, and as ignorant
    how to secure thy soul, through the faith of it, from the wrath
    of God.  Yes, thou art also ignorant of the true effects of
    saving faith in the righteousness of Christ, which is, to bow
    and win over the heart of God in Christ, to love his name, his
    Word, ways, and people, and not as thou ignrantly imaginest.

    ....

    Ignorance:  That is your faith, but not mine; yet mine, I doubt
    not, is as good as yours, though I have not in my head so many
    whimsies as you.
30.12The Fate of IgnoranceTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersWed Mar 31 1993 16:2318
    When [Ignorance] was come up to the gate, he looked up to the
    writing that was above, and then began to knock, supposing that
    entrance should have been quickly administered to him; but he
    was asked by the men that looked over the top of the gate,
    "Whence came you? and what would you have?"  He answered, "I
    have eat and drank in the presence of the King, and he has
    taught in our streets."  Then they asked him for his
    certificate, that they might go in and show it tothe King.  So
    he fumbled in his bosom for one, and found none.  Then said
    they, "Have you none?" But the man answered never a word.  So
    they told the King, but he would not come down to see him, but
    commanded the two Shining Ones that conducted Christian and
    Hopeful to the city, to go out and take Ignorance and bind him
    hand and foot, and have him away.  Then they took him up and
    caried him through the air, to the door that I saw in the side
    of the hill, and put him in there.  Then I saw that there was a
    way to hell even from the gates of heaven, as well as from the
    City of Destruction.
30.13Death and Life of Christian and HopefulTOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersWed Mar 31 1993 16:3254
    Then they addressed themselves to the water; and entering,
    Christian  began to sink, and crying out to his good friend
    Hopeful, he said,  "I sink into deep waters; the billows go over
    my head, all his waves go over me!  Selah!"

    Then said the other, "Be of good cheer, my brother; I feel the
    bottom, and it is good."  Then said Christian, "Ah, my friend,
    the sorrows of death have compassed me about; I shall not see
    the land that flows  with milk and honey."  And with that a
    great darkness and horror fell upon Christian, so that he could
    not see before him.  Also here he in  great measure lost his
    senses; so that he could neither remember nor  orderly talk of
    any of those sweet refreshments that he had met with in the way
    of his pilgrimage. But all the words that he spake still tended
    to discover that he had horror of mind, and heart-fears that he
    should die in that river, and never obtained entrance in at the
    gate.  Here also, as they that stood by perceived, he was much
    in troublesome thoughts of the sins that he had committed, both
    since and before he began to be a pilgrim.  It was also observed
    that he was troubled with appiritions of hobgoblins and evil
    spirits; for ever and anon he would intimate so much  by words.
    Hopeful therefore here had much ado to keep his brother's head
    above water; yea, sometimes he would be quite gone down, and
    then, ere a while, he would rise up again half dead.  ....
    "...These troubles and distresses that you go through in these
    waters are no sign that God hath forsaken you, whether you will
    call to mind that which heretofore you have received of his
    goodness, and live upon him in your distress."

    Then I [John Bunyan] saw in my dream, that Christian was as in
    muse a while. To whom als Hopeful added this word, "Be of good
    cheer, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole."  And with that Christian
    brake out in a loud voice, "Oh, I see Him again!  and He tells
    me, 'when thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee;
    and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee.'" [Isaiah
    43:2]  Then they both took courage and the enemy was after that
    still as a stone until they were gone over.  Christian therefore
    presently found ground to  stand upon; and so it followed that
    the rest of the river was but shallow. Thus they got over."

    ....

    Now when they were come up to the gate, there was written over
    it in letters of gold, "BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS
    COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND
    MAYENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY." [Revelation 22:14]

    ...And then the pilgrims gave in unto them each man his
    certificate, which they had received in the beginning; those,
    therefore were carried to the King, who, when he had read them,
    said, "Where are these men?"  To who it was answered, "They are
    standing at the gate."  The King commanded to open the gate,
    "That the righteous nation," said he, "that keepeth truth may
    enter in." [Isaiah 26:2]