Conference wahoo::fishing

    re.-1  note martial's smiley face, one of us moderators inadvertently
    deleted his previous note, so we asked him to replace it...
    
    Another comment on gas.  While up at Moore I had planned on doing some
    trolling.  With the price of gas these days, I had filled up with regular 
    unleaded before the trip.  This was the first time I had tried trolling
    with the new boat and was suprized how rough the new Johnson 40hp ran 
    at trolling speed - in short time it bogged out and stalled.  When I
    got gas again I filled up with Sunoco Ultra and the motor ran better at
    trolling speeds, but was still kind of rough.  Note, it is the VRO
    model (oil injection) so I am not mixing improperly.  Any of you motor
    heads care to comment?  I would think that the 40hp should troll
    easily.  
    
    donmac

You said "new" in connection with your 40 hp, Donmac. Well, if it's brand
new the dealer (or you) should have added oil to the gas tank - in
addition to the oil in the VRO reservoir. During the breakin period the
oil mixture is supposed to be around double, and that's the way they
ensure that you're doing the right thing.

During the breakin period it's normal for some roughness, particularly at
idle. It's getting excess oil during this time.


Art

    Donmac, I have a 70 hp w/ VRO and have the very same problem. My motor
    runs like a diesel after I've trolled for a while and until I change
    the plugs. I am really disappointed with my Evinrude for that reason. I
    guess I've resided myself to the fact that I'll have to buy a kicker
    motor for trolling.
    
    Don

    It was 'new' this spring, that first tank of premix is loooooooong
    gone.  And it also had the 20(?) hour checkup where they changed the
    plugs, made adjustments, etc.. 
    
    I can sorta see a 70hp having a tough time trolling, but in my mind, 
    a 40hp should be able to do it without any trouble at all.  Trolling
    ability and gas consumption was one of the reasons I wanted a 40hp.
    
    donmac - who plans on doing a fair amount of trolling for salmoids this
    	     fall...

    I had an 87 Merc. 25 and it too idled rough, sometimes! It seemed to
    depend on the weather. 2 strokes seem to idle better when the humidity
    is low. Also it could be just a turn of a screw
    
     Right now I own 90 horse Johnson. It will idle real smooth
    for about a half an hour...then start building up! .3 had the best
    answer...pick up a trolling motor. 
    
                                           Jeff (captain)
                                           Team Starcraft

    Oh yea, when you say troll....how slow are you talking.
    My 90 will only go as low as 3 - 3.5 . Another thing would
    be a trolling plate...but engine would still carbon up,
    and steering would be less responsive.

    Do the manufacturers suggest a plug in a higher heat-range for
    extended trolling? Might be worth asking a good dealer/mechanic 
    before dumping major $$ into a kicker...

    I decided to avoid the trolling plate because I didn't want to effect
    overall performance. My 70 only goes down to about 3 - 3.5 also but I
    throw a hole filled bucket overboard [tied to boat of course :>)] and it 
    really does the trick to slow me down but I'm sure it also causes carbon 
    build up and/or fouling. Steering remains ok, probably because there is
    still some power coming from the motor as the bucket does most of the work.
    BTW. I do some trolling and about 3 MPH as well and have reasonably
    good luck at it, sometimes they just want a challenge before they'll
    hit, especially in the shallows.
    
    Don

    Don I second what the person in .6 said.  When I used to race Motocross
    10 years ago, I'd always have the standard plug and then one the next
    number up and one the next number lower (the the next size hotter, the
    next size colder).  I think you'd want a the next size hotter for your
    set up.  This if I remember right, would burn the gas a little better at 
    lower throttle settings and not load up the plugs as easy which is
    problem your seeing.
    
    	Martial, why can't you use high test unleaded gas?  Even if you
    have and old engine high test gas should run fine.  Or is there some
    otherreason I'm missing here.  The only time I've heard of any problems
    is when you run leaded gas in a system designed for unleaded, but not
    the other way around.
    
    					regards,
    						Madd Matt

    Yea, the bucket is my next step. 
    In the late spring-early summer I will go to what I term "Hyper Troll"!
    Using a Rapala and 3.5 mph is a deadly combo. The fish hit real hard!
    At Winni P last spring just before the tourny, I was also getting good
    results using a smallish orange Mooselook, again at 3.5 mph, about 10
    feet down. A guy at a the sporting goods shop at Paugus Bay told me
    that speed is only good for "just after ice out"! He suggested 1.5 mph.
    The catching slowed down with the speed.
    
                                       Happy Trollin,
                                       Jeff (Captain)
                                       Team Starcraft
    

    On my Merc 25 I added a trolling plate. It was good for when the
    water was calm and using minimal steer. I could slow it down to just
    about a dead stop. On the other hand, as far as overall performance
    goes, it helped the boat to get up on plane considerably faster in the
    up position...acted like a "whale tale/dole fin" and totally eliminated
    porpoising(sp).
    
                                                Jeff (Captain)
                                                Team Starcraft

    
    My boat is a Lowe 160 Bass (16' bassboat), if by getting a trolling
    motor you mean putting a 5-10hp kicker on it, I don't think that would
    be appropriate for it.  I spoke to my mechanic this morning when I
    dropped the boat off (for other reasons) he agreed that the 40hp should 
    troll ok.  I asked about running different plugs while trolling, he said 
    he'd take a look at my plugs and get back to me.  He said if I planned on 
    doing alot of trolling he suggests a trolling plate, which allows the 
    engine to run at higher revs (around $75 thru bps).
    
    donmac 
    

    I was told by my local dealer that using hotter plugs might  help
    but they gave me clear WARNINGS not to run the motor at top end or I
    could burn the pistons out. So I decided I didn't want to chance
    blowing my motor with hotter plugs. Let's face it, when do we hit the
    water without bringing the boat onto plane "just for the hell of it" or
    to get to where we really want to start trolling. So your choice is
    no top end or rotten low end. I've decided there is no GOOD answer, 
    just a pile of them that will "just do" !  Couple that with the fact
    that some place (like the Quabbin) won't let you use your big motor
    leads me to the idea that I need a small kicker motor - its the
    expensive way out but offers me: trolling capabilities; access to new
    waters; and emergency power (besides my electric).
    
    Don

     Man! I ask for help on where to find leaded gas and DONMAC takes over
    the note on trolling -). I guess I should have left it deleted!
    
    Thanks to Madd Matt he was the only one that made mention to my
    request! Matt, I have a 1987 20 hp Merc and my owners manual states to use
    leaded gas only. Now do you guys use unleaded, won't that srew up the 
    valves?
    
    Bass-O-Matic
    

RE:
>>I have a 1987 20 hp Merc and my owners manual states to use
>>leaded gas only. Now do you guys use unleaded, won't that 
>>screw up the valves?
    
Valves on a 20 hp Merc?  That's a 2 stroke, so there ain't no
valves.  Unleaded gas won't hurt a 2 stroke a bit.  Just use
a good grade of gas, and oil from one of the engine manufacturers
(OMC or Merc) and it'll run forever.

For anyone with an older 4 stroke with non-hardened valves, Jay's 
Marina at Lake Winnisquam sells leaded gas that's been treated
with Valvtect or some such lead replacement product.

Hope this helps.
Rick

     Rick, thanks for the info! It goes to show you how much I know about
    motors. I'm one of those guys that just go by what the manufacture
    says because I assume they know what's best. But if all of you guys
    put unleaded then I guess there is no harm in it!
    
    Bass-O-Matic
    

    Bass-O-Matic
    
    It's my understanding that even the leaded gas of the last few years
    has been more unleaded than leaded. They've been reducing the lead
    content for the last 10 years (per order of the EPA). The only difference 
    was the octane rating, typically around 89. I have a 1985, 115hp Mercury 
    and have been running high test with no problems per the recomendation from 
    my marine mechanic. Incidently, I traded a 1979, 75hp Johnson that
    was running perfectly using the same high test gas for the 5 years that
    I owned it...Jim
    
    
    
    

    I have an 87 110hp Johnson VRO and have no trouble at trolling speeds.
    I did break it in with the extra oil in the fuel tank as discussed
    earlier. I use unleaded 89 octane gas. This is on an 18 foot boat in
    the ocean and I can get it down to a crawl. You may want to change the
    prop to a different pitch so that the engine revs a little higher. This
    will lower you top end speed a little but you will also get up on the
    plane faster. In my owner's manual it says either leaded or unleaded
    is ok as long as the octane rating certain limit. If you still don't
    have any luck you may as your dealer about fire ring type of
    sparkplugs.
    
    Good luck
    Jim

    Martial,
    	
    	I'm glad Rick brought up the point about there not being any valves
    on a two stroke boat motor.  I was going to reply back to you that
    unless you got a 4 stroke engine (which untill Rick,s note I never
    thought existed in Boat motors) it would be awlful hard to find any
    valves.  Two strokes use ports, the only so called valve is usally a
    reed valve that sits between the carburator and the input into the
    piston.  It's nothing like the valves in a car.  Go with a good high test 
    gas and you should be in fat city.  
    
    	If I had say something like hey stupid there isn't any valves in a
    two stroke, don't you know anything about fishing or motors.  Everyone
    would have thought I was harrassing you and John again.
    
    					highest regards,
    							Madd Matt

    
    
    	The Harbormaster's barge has an Evinrude 60HP with VRO.
    My plugs will also foul after extended periods of running
    under 1500 rpm.  To help correct this, I trim up the
    motor and run at higher rpm (between 2100 and 2500 rpm) 
    without increasing speed.  When the engine starts to run
    rough, I'll shift to neutral and rev the motor a bit to clean
    the plugs. 
    
    I've also considered draging a "sea anchore" type of device,
    made of something a little more sophisticated than a plastic
    bucket with holes in it... no offense intended to earlier reply  8*)
    
    Any other ideas welcome... plan on doing some trout fishin' this fall.
    
    harbormaster
      

    Either you have wrong engine or too low gas...   ;^)  
     
    I use unleaded 95 oct. in my 75 hp Mariner and it runs perfectly
    at 800 rpm. Speed is the only problem in trolling. For slower
    spoons I have to use that plastic_bucket_trick to slow down a bit.
    
    I'm still considering a small kicker for extensive trolling passes
    and for security reasons as well. A 4-stroke might do well 'cos
    they are quieter and do run smoother. Honda has a good selection
    and Yamaha has at least two models. Now where to get that $$$...
    
    Eki 

Gee Don, my new 50 yamaha will troll all day at 500-600 rpm.  Would you like
the name of my dealer? 8-)  Adjusting the timing and mixture along with a high
octaine gas will help that 40 run it's best.

I am supprised that nobody mentioned the big difference between leeded and
unleaded for outbords.  It's that unleaded uses methanol to boost the octaine
rating. The methanol will over time distroy the rubber hoses and diaphrams of
older outboards.

    When I picked the boat up last night they said they sandblasted the
    plugs and had it running at an idle in the tank for about a half hour 
    and it ran fine.  I'm hoping it was the cheap gas that was the problem.
    
    Maybe next weekend I'll get a chance to try some trolling for rainbows.
    
    re: new prop - I got a new prop yesterday, same type as before though.
    I would not want to sacrifice top end for trolling ability.  Again,
    this is a bassboat and trolling is just something I'll do on occasion
    during spring and fall - 90% of the time it's all or nothing.
    
    donmac

    Went out to a local pond last night for a little trout trolling
    in my new Starcraft. This is the first time that I've tried some
    serious trolling with this boat. My 88 Johnson purred like a kitten
    for about 2 and 1/2 hours @ 2.5mph. I was impressed. A small bucket
    would take care of anything slower. An exact 50:1 mixture and Mobil
    Special gasoline (the middle grade) seemed to work well. So... the
    folks in this notes file who are trying to idle down their motors
    might just need a turn of a screw to smooth out things. Or maybe
    they just need to buy a Johnson!
    
    
                                          Jeff (Captain)
                                          Team Starcraft

    Well, I solved my trolling problem last night. I bought a 1989 9.9
    evinrude last night (looks brand-spanking new) for $900. Brrmm-Brrmm,
    here I go !

    I have an 1988 70HP Evindrude VRO that will troll all day long at 
    750-800 RPM without even a miss when I hit the throttle to get home.  
    I found that running OMC oil made the difference between fouling and
    burning clean - LITERALLY hours on end without a miss.  The other
    contributing factor may be the 15" pitch prop.  Be careful if you 
    go to a smaller pitch prop.  The full throttle operating range for 
    a 70hp OMC outboard is 5000-6000RPM.  
    
    By the way, I use a trolling plate which actually decreases the
    "time-to-Plane" .
    
    Best regards,
    
    Duncan