| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1303.1 | Ultra Lights | WILLEE::MANLEY | | Fri Jan 12 1990 15:27 | 34 |
| Matty,
Its not just that the rods are shorter but also they are lighter/
more sensitive in the shorter sizes. For example an ultra light
rig. These rigs make fighting a smaller fish more enjoyable instead
of just horsing the fish in with a larger rig. This very similar
to flyfishing rigs: 4-5 weight rod/reel=light 10-12 weight rod/reel=
heavy. Looking at your list of available equipment you could get
set up with an ultra light spinning outfit via a Shakespear ultra
light rod and a Shimano ultra light reel and use Maxima 4-6 pound
line. Some of the ultra light rigs will cast a lure as small as
1/32 of an ounce. One of these rigs should make those perch feel
like a 10 pound trout on one of those 9-10 foot rods.
This is only one reason for shorter spinning rods. There is also
portability on land and water etc. etc. We do use longer rods here
for surf casting and I believe the folks in the western US use them
for steelhead fishing in the rivers, neither of which I have tried
(yet :-) ) maybe somebody who has can fill you in on those forms
of spin fishing.
As for the best equipment manufacter.....the list would be too long
to put in this file. I'm sure that Bass Pro Shop would sent you
a catalog, which means they will send you anything in it which means
that your available equipment list would grow enormously, for a
price. Just be careful, it is not to hard to drop the better part
of a paycheck when ordering through BPS. Not because they are expensive
but because their prices are low compared to the local tackle shops
and one tends to order too much ;^}.
You asked "How do you fish worm for Bass?" Live worms or plastic
worms?
Tom,
|
| 1303.2 | Action it is | HSKAPL::AALTO | Erkki Aalto @FNO A&L Portfolio | Mon Jan 15 1990 01:39 | 12 |
| Why shorter rods for UL fishing? Action I would say, personally
I like little longer rods with smoother action than "normally"
used. I was looking for a new UL rod in 7' lenght but couldn't
find one. Fine I thought, I'll build one! Got me #4-#5 Lamiglass
blank and on with tying... Result was otherwise nice rod but
not enough backbone for spinning. Shorter rods can have faster
taper and thus faster action...
For hooks I would recommend Eagle Claw's "Lazer sharps". But
watch Your fingers they really are sharp!
Eki
|
| 1303.3 | I'm gonna buy some spinners. | SHAPES::BROWNM | | Mon Jan 15 1990 05:42 | 27 |
| RE.1
I meant live worms. (like in the film `On Golden Pond')
Also I don't consider 4lb line light. I would use 4lb line for casting
3oz weights 80 yards, or catching fish that average 5lb.
If fishing for Perch I would use 2lb line or something. This I would
consider UL gear.
Here in the UK it is not easy to get hold of baitcasting rods. The UK
daiwa and Shakespeare catalogues don't have baitcasting rods on them.
Many manufacturers have spinning rods, but these are 7ft-11ft in
length.
Also I still would have thought that a small rod would be less accurate
than long one. Here in the UK we have a method of fishing (Feeder)
where we have to cast up to 90 yards, and place the bait just 2-3 yards
off the far bank. The fact is, with this sort of fishing, that the
longer the rod the better. The rods have delveloped from 9�ft to
12-13ft. And because of all the materials they use nowadays, the
blanks are so thin that we don't have problems with wind. We have UL
rods that can handle 8oz lines, size 24 hooks without problems. It is
the action of the rod that counts, not the length, when it comes to
sensitivity.
MattyB_who_lands_4lb_Chub_on_10oz_lines_(easily)
|
| 1303.4 | Pouring ignorance onto troubled waters | CHEFS::BUXTON | | Mon Jan 15 1990 09:03 | 41 |
| I thought that a fishing-rod served three main purposes:
To aid casting - distance and direction.
To act as a shock absorber when 'playing' a fish capable of placing
more strain on the line than it could normally withstand.
To give control to the landing of a hooked fish by allowing the
application of side acting force and thus the direction the fish
takes.
And that the greater of these is the shock-absorber advantage.
Other lesser advantages are the properties of a rod that allow
sufficient sensitivity for bite-detection and hook-setting, neither
of which are mutually compatible.
As a poor, uneducated catch-nothing; surely the advantages of a long
rod are to be gained from increased casting distance and the degree
of side-strain it allows depending on its action which I assume
to be the part of the rod where most of its bending occurs.
I assume that a spinning-rod (I don't spin) needs to be short and
stiff to cope with heavy line, lure, and fish. You could go after
small perch with a short-stiff rod if you chose but might not get
many fish onto the bank if you were after pike with a through-action
14 ft match rod. Long rods also tend to have more 'bend' and when
fishing at a distance, spinning, the difficulty of setting the hook
by tensioning a great length of line is made more difficult if the
rod has to be tensioned also.
My cynical view says the takle manufacturers conspire to make as
many different rods as possible so that the army of fishers spend
as much as possible covering all the bases.
Is it the case that US type two pound line is guaranteed to break
before two pounds is applied to it where a British or European two
pound line is guaranteed to withstand a two-pound strain without
breaking? I vaguely remember reading this somewhere.
Bucko...
|
| 1303.5 | Beachcasters ahoy | SHAPES::BROWNM | | Mon Jan 15 1990 12:48 | 20 |
| With English fishing the most important thing depends on the method.
Feeder/leger/whatever - the most important things here are bite
detection, casting (Distance & accuracy) and hooking capabilities.
Float Rods - come in two actions. The stick float rod has a quick
action in order to be able to hit lightning bites. The waggler rod has
to be able to pick up slack line at distance without ripping the fishes
head off. So the action is most important. Also the float rod must be
light (13ft - 6ozs) so that the angler can hold it all day. With the
stick rod the angler has to be able to control the float and therefore
the length comes in to play.
As for landing the fish, it isn't just the rod that gets 'em in. The
tackle has to balanced. Most float rods are made to cover 1lb to 4lb
lines and just wouldn't hold a 20lb Carp too easiliy.
Mattyb
|
| 1303.6 | DIFFERENT TYPE OF FISHING | GENRAL::HUNTER | from SUNNY Colorado, Wayne | Mon Jan 15 1990 13:57 | 81 |
| The fishing method here in the U.S. is considerably different than
International Rules fishing. Fishing here is to cover a LOT (usually)
of water to catch ACTIVELY FEEDING fish. Not to finesse many fish from
one area. A tournament angler might make upward of 2000 casts in an 8
hour day of tournament if the fishing is tough. Under these
conditions, the longer rods hamper wrist casting die to the physical
momentum of the tip. Since we make so many casts to locate the fish,
we like to use just the wrist for casting. If the rod is too long, you
HAVE to use your arm to get the rod moving and load the tip of the rod
with the lure to snap it and get distance for the casts. It takes a
LOT more energy to move your whole arm to cast than to just snap your
wrist. That is one reason for a shorter rod.
A second reason is that it is easier to change the rod
characteristics if it is shorter. In other words, it is easier to
change the action of the blank if it is 5 feet than if it is 11 feet.
So, for different types of lures, you want your rod to react
differently while casting to get the most distance with the least
amount of energy expended. It is also easier to get a rod set up for
say fishing rubber worms where you want a VERY flexible tip and a VERY
STIFF handle section to a distance about 7/8 of the way up the rod.
For crankbaits, you want a rod that has more of an even taper of
flexibility to power along the entire length of the rod.
So, fishing here in the U.S. is more of a cross between flyfishing
(where long rods are needed to get the power curve of the rod to load
up for casting with the line instead of the lure) with its MANY casts to
an area to catch a fish and finesse fishing in giving a dead piece of
something the action of something live. Therefore, the long rod does
not lend itself well to making a LOT of casts per day just due to the
physical stress to the fisherman. Then, where you have a lot of trees,
bushes, etc. along the bank, a long rod can be a hindrance to casting
just in getting the lure through the underbrush to be able to cast to
the water.
The other MAJOR stipulation to rod size here in the U.S., is that
most of the storage compartments in the boats are LESS THAN 7 FEET
LONG!!! People want to be able to store their rods IN their boats so
that they are ready to fish when they get to the water. They don't
want to spend the time putting rod sections together, rigging lines,
etc. It takes enough time just launching the boat. (I KNOW, WE'RE
IMPATIENT!!!!) So, once the boat is floating on the water, we want to
be able to open a compartment, grab a rod, unhook the lure from the
guide, and start tossing!!!!! Longer rods don't work well for this.
Flyfishermen (since it is more physically demanding with the longer
rods and type of fishing) tend to want to take the time to put the rods
together, etc. while they survey the water and the situation to make
the determination of WHERE and HOW to fish. Us metal pounders tend to
just want to start tossing things until we LUCK upon the combination
that the fish want for that day. (I tend to use both types of
equipment, SO, I will jab fun at both. :-) ) However, a flyfisherman
tends to fish a lot less water more thoroughly than the spinner man.
So, he wants the short range control afforded by a longer rod. The
spinner fisherman tends to want the shorter rod with the less exertion
for many casts. Now, I know that a LOT of the flyfishermen out there
will say, "We make a lot more casts per day than a spinnerfisherman."
TRUE in most cases. However, are most of the casts in excess of 100
feet? NOPE!!! Try flyfishing where every cast is over 100 feet and
you will be totally BUSHED at the end of the day. So, as you can see,
the fishing method and storage method tend to dictate the rod size.
Hope this helps of why we tend to use shorter rods. Try moving the
same diameter of anything when it is 6 feet long and when it is 11 feet
long. Then you will see how much more tiring it would be to use a
longer rod for a day. I tend to use a longer rod than most of the
fishermen around me. Might tend to have something to do with the fact
of hooking, on any cast, a 30 pound Northern Pike and the fact that I
am a 6 feet 2" tall and have LONG arms. So, a longer rod fits my body
size better than a short rod. So, I tend to stay with 6 foot to 6'6"
long rods.
As for the line categories, I am not sure how you rate your lines
in England. Here, a line is rated, for record fishing, as having a
breaking strength when dry of LESS than the class rating. So, a 2 pound
test line can break at NO MORE than 2 pounds of DIRECT pull. Now, try
landing a 4 pound trout on 2 pound test in a 15 MPH current and
whitewater rapids and I think you will see why we tend to use slightly
heavier lines. Or, try pulling a 3 pound bass out of the roots of a
submerged tree with 2 pound test line. This is the majority of our
fishing. Therefore, we tend to use heavier line. (A second but less
understood fact is that it does less damage to the fish if they are
landed and released quicker. A fish that is played to total exhaustion
will have a higher probability of dying when released.)
Hope this explanation tends to help you see the differences both in
fishing philosophy, strategy, and equipment.
|
| 1303.7 | Do you use the rods with the bent butts? | SHAPES::BROWNM | | Tue Jan 16 1990 08:00 | 21 |
| Yeah thanks, that helps a lot.
After thinking about it, one of the reasons we have long rods is so we
can strike and pick up slack line as quickly as possible, or to control
a float so that it follows the current of the river. Of course you
don't have to do that.
I don't think that you would get tired casting a 13ft rod 2000 times in
8 hours, not with today's rod materials. You'd have to try it to find
out.
In the film `On Golden Pond' Henry Fonda went fishing on the lake,
using a boat. He dangled worms over the side. I don't know if he used
a float, but he caught some fish. Does anyone fish like that over
there? and if so how?
I wish you all could try English methods, and I can't wait to go
spinning for Perch!
MattyB
|
| 1303.8 | APPLES AND ORANGES = Fishing styles | GENRAL::HUNTER | from SUNNY Colorado, Wayne | Tue Jan 16 1990 10:52 | 63 |
| About the only time you will see worm drowners (bait fishermen)
dangling lines over the sides of still boats is when the people are
fishing for Crappie or small panfish. The other time is a less
experienced fisherman who doesn't feel comfortable with artificial
lures. In fact, a lot of the waters in Colorado DON'T ALLOW the use of
live bait of ANY TYPE. It is a $500.00 fine if you are caught with
live bait on these waters. Also, most of (~99%) our fishing is
performed TIGHT LINE. Lures, plastic baits, etc. are almost ALL fished
on a TIGHT LINE and you use your sense of feeling in your hand and
fingers to detect strikes. Therefore, you want a rod that is stiff for
bait pick-up transmission to your hand, but flexible enough to load up
with light lures for long casts. Tough to do with a long rod.
Regarding the 11 foot rod and 2000 casts per day in a 40 MPH
headwind, I wouldn't personally want to try that one. If you did make
that many long casts, the equipment would have to be balanced to each
particular fisherman to keep the fatigue factor out of it. That means
BIG $$$s, and, the average fisherman over here in the States is not
willing to spring for that kind of Bucks for something to jerk a fish
around. So, the market has been conditioned to cheap, short rods. The
flyfishermen spend the $$$s and TIME to pick and balance a rig for each
use. However, you will seldom find one of them with 8 to 10
rods/reels. It is not uncommon at all for a spin fisherman to have
this many rigs in a boat, all of them with different lines, lures, etc.
for different situations. When on the water, the amount of time with
lure in the water is SUPREME. So, no time to change equipment and tie
on new stuff. Just throw the rod down and grab another one. Besides,
we have the BIG $$$s tied up in the boat. We can't afford to spend big
$$$s for equipment, TOO. :-) (Although, I was serious, too.) The
other thing about long rods is the fact of not being able to span LARGE
differences of line and lure weight handling characteristics. It is
easier to get a 5 foot rod to load properly for a cast with any lure
between 1/8 ounce and 1 1/2 ounces and handle line with 6 to 15 pound
breaking strength than it is to do the same with a long rod.
Therefore, it is easier for the manufacturers to make a rod that is
acceptable to the general public for average use with ANYTHING. So, it
really comes down to where the fisherman is willing to spend the bucks,
spend the time, and fishing philosophy and style for the use of short
vs. long rods.
Now, flippin' or pitching sticks are LONG, STIFF rods. They are
used for underhand swing casting of HEAVY (usually) lures into THICK
BRUSH PILES and etc. for BIG fish on tough conditions. The line used
for this is typically a minimum of 15 pound break strength and more
usually 20 pound and above. This is to PULL (literally) any fish that
bites the lure OUT OF THE WATER IN THE LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME!!! This
gives the fish less chance to tie the line up in snags and break off.
So, for this fishing, you want a long rod for ACCURATE (within 1/4
inch) lure placement on short (typically less that 10 foot) casts and
POWER to get the fish out QUICK. ERGO, the long rod. Also, due to
less sales, bigger $$$s. So, comparing the 2 fishing styles and
techniques is kind of like comparing the driving styles and techniques
between England and here. YES, we both use cars. BUT, if you drive on
the side of the road to which you are accustomed, YOU'RE IN TROUBLE.
With fishing, we both use rods and reels. After that, it is a totally
new ball game. You finesse fish in a small area of water where we tend
to harass active fish in many areas and spend a LOT of time running
from place to place to find active fish. A long rod under these
circumstances is a hindrance to moving around in the boat, and to
quick position changes on the water.
Hope this long winded explanation helps. If you ever get to CXO
land, let me know. I would be up to getting my arm twisted to go
fishing either during a day, evening, or weekend. So, anyone headed to
CXO, let me know. If I'm not able to take you somewhere, I can steer
you toward fish at least.
|
| 1303.9 | Fishin' with worms.... | BTOVT::MORONG | | Wed Jan 17 1990 07:47 | 16 |
| re: worms/nightcrawlers
When I take my kids fishing, I usually bring a couple dozen worms/
nightcrawlers. Its easy fishing for the kids, and they always catch
something. Usually perch, but occasionally a bass. Its a lot safer
than having a 5 year-old or 8 year-old trying to cast a lure. I had
to go diving for a rod that one of my kids "cast" overboard ("Daddy,
look how far I can cast, oooppps") and thats not something I care to
do very often.
As far as methods, I usually have them drop it down to the bottom,
then bring it up about 6-12". Very effective for panfish, and it sure
keeps me busy (taking fish of the hook, re-baiting). I don't let them
use bobbers/floats. I want them to get used to "feeling" the fish hit.
-Ron-
|
| 1303.10 | Slithery Slimy Critters of the Night | PACKER::GIBSON | DTN225-5193 | Wed Jan 17 1990 12:04 | 28 |
| Well heres the story from a MEAT fisherman. I love to eat trout amoung
other types of fish and to catch them in proper style the bait to use
is the WORM! I usually rig up a 5ft to 6ft quick taper spinning rod
with a spinning reel like a Mitchall 300 with 2lb or 4lb test line.
Tie a # 14 or #16 down turned aberdeen hook directly to your line using
an improved clinch knot. Approx 1 to 2 feet above the hook you can
pinch on a small split shot of lead, the less the better & only if you
really need it.
Cast out your worm into a pool eddy or undercut embankment in a stream
taking care not to let any slack develop in the line as the bait flows
in the current. Just as the fish inhales the bait is the time to set
the hook. usually the proper time is a second before you feel the
strike.
Variations on the worm are to slide a miniture marshmello on the eye of
the hook to float it a bit or to add a salmon egg in the same fashion
to sink it a bit.
I also use worms and Nightcrawers (Big Worms) for Salt Water species
with good luck.
I find it hard to belive that people in the UK don't use worms?????
Walt
|
| 1303.11 | Try it! | SHAPES::BROWNM | | Wed Jan 17 1990 13:56 | 32 |
| We DO use worms. Dig em up an slap em on thee hook!
Now that's more like my kind of fishing.
Your method is similar to `quivertipping'.
We use a small lead weight (ledger) with a small swivel build in to it
- half in the lead and the other half out. The line is threaded
through the eye of the swivel, and a small split shot is placed between
the weight and the hook, about 18" from the hook. Same size hook
(16ish). Then cast out to the fish, tighten up. The rod is held still
on the knee at the butt end and rested on a rock or whatever. The rod
is put at a right angle to the direction of the line. The hand is kept
on the rod, and when the tip of the rod gives indications that a fish
has moved in on the bait, you strike!
That's the simple version. The trick is to use as light a weight as
will hold bottom, so that a fish will disturb the weight when taking.
This will give a slack line `drop-back' bite, as opposed to the `rip it
out of your hands' type bite. Experience is needed to recognise the
difference between a bite and the changes in current. If the current
is slow then the distance (the tail) between the hook and weight can
be crucial. The longer `tail' obviously covers more water than a
shorter one. But the shorter tail gets the bait straight down to the
bottom, which is best if that's where they are on the day.
The rod size we use depends on the distance between the bait and rod
and strength of flow. We use about 7ft for 20 yards to about 13ft
(pokers) for up to 100 yards.
Mattyb
|
| 1303.12 | Light for pan-fish | GENRAL::HUNTER | from SUNNY Colorado, Wayne | Wed Jan 17 1990 14:14 | 25 |
| I HATE to admit this, BUT, when Crappie and bluegill fishing, I use
LOTS of nightcrawlers. Especially when the fish are in a negative mood
and I want something for supper. Usual rigging consists of:
small leadhead jig (1/32 to 1/16 ounce) with the LONGEST hook shank
I can find (preferably a 6x) OR when fish are hitting shallow, NO
WEIGHT on a #4 long shank light wire hook.
6 foot ultra-lite spinning rod with Mitchell 308 U-L reel
4 or 6 pound test line
Bobber (waggler) or not as the wind and conditions and fish dictate
Nightcrawler (preferably longer than 6 inches) (You NEVER know
when a pike or bass is going to be in the area)
Now, this rig is REAL FUN when you set the hook on a Pike of around
28-30 inches in length, a 16 inch or larger bass, OR a 20+ pound
catfish. However, the fight is usually not long if fishing heavy moss
and weed structure. :-( Usually, I start with marabou or rubber jigs.
If nothing happens, I switch to the nightcrawlers. The real test of
angling skill is when you retrieve a straightened out 4X thin wire hook
and wonder WHAT hit it. :-) Catfishing, I step up the rig a little.
15 pound test line, 6'6" medium/heavy graphite spinning rod, Mitchell
300 reel, and 4X heavy duty blue-steel hook. NOW, when you get the
hook back straightened out, you wipe your brow and let out a sigh of
relief. :-) A 20 pound catfish on 6# line in moss is RIDICULOUS!!
Fight consists of about 3 seconds till he figures out he's hooked.
Then, BYE-BYE!!!!!
|
| 1303.13 | I've been called a moocher... | ROBOAT::HEBERT | Captain Bligh | Fri Mar 02 1990 13:19 | 19 |
| My cousin was the northeast US factory rep for Silstar until very
recently. He called me over to take my pick of samples -- I might have
set a new land speed record getting there.
Anyway, among all the familiar rod types was a complete line of "salmon
mooching" rods. They go from 7-1/2' to 10' in (I think) 6" increments.
They are extremely light for their length. For example, the 9' rod is as
light as my 6-1/2' spinning rods.
They all have cork handles which are a bit longer than normal spinning
rod handles, and have spinning guides.
They're beautiful, kevlar & boron, look like jello.
I took the 7-1/2'. I'll give it a try as a long spinning rod.
But what the heck is "mooching?"
Art
|
| 1303.14 | I'll take one :-) | DECWET::HELSEL | Legitimate sporting purpose | Fri Mar 02 1990 14:34 | 43 |
| A perfect length for a mooching rod is 8'6".
If you have any 8'6" moching rods for a baitcasting reel that you
want to get rid of, I'd be glad to take it off of your hands.
Mooching is a type of fishing typically asociated with salmon fishing.
It is a prevalent term in the Pacific Northwest. Typically, a moocher
will cut power of his boat over a ledge on the bottom where he expects
salmon are "sitting". The thought is that Salmon will hold steady in
the current and at times will bite when herring go by. It's one of
these deals where you sit there for 3 hours without a hit and then all
of a sudden every boat around you starts getting hits. The term for
this is "The bite is on!". The fish were there the whole time. In
fact, you can often "see" them on sonar.
Anyway, the rod that moochers usually use is an 8'6" with springy
action. Usually, baitcasters like Penn 209s, Ambassadeurs, or Shimanos
are used. Line is about 15-20 lbs test for kings. You would put on a
trolling weight and then a leader that is at least 6'. At the end of
the leader, which is referred to as a "hook up", are two hooks about 4"
apart. A use a size 3/90 and then a 2/0 at the very end. You bait the
hook with a "cut plug herring" This is a herring which you've removed
the head from at such an angle that it will spin like a propellor (the
axis would be the spine of the herring). Remove the guts first.
Hook the herring with the top hook at the front of the herring. Then
take the other hook and put it down through the body cavity and feed it
through the side so that it dangles. The herring will spin. (I think
the idea is that salmon don't just hit the bait like they want to
swallow it, they sort of hit it from the sides and play with
it....hence the dangling hook.
Now, lower your bait straight down till the sinker hits the bottom.
Reel up a few feet off the bottom. The current at the bottom should
keep the herring spinning and the drift of the boat will move you across the
ledge. When you've drifted away from the ledge you go back to the
"head of the drift"
You're now mooching.
Hope this helps,
/brett
|
| 1303.15 | THE BEST IN FISHING TACKLE | BSS::LOWE | | Thu Apr 26 1990 17:21 | 5 |
| NO QUESTION FOR ME THE SHIAMONA BEST REEL I HAVE EVER HAD COMBINED WITH
AN UGLY STICK FOR A ROD....FEEL THE FISH ALL THE WAY.....CATCH THE BIG
ONES....RAINBOW, BROWNS, SALMON, AND BASS.....ITS THE ONLY WAY TO GO I
BELEIVE
|