Conference wahoo::fishing

    
    
     Might aren't you long winded about 4-5 mph!! I think if you were
    racing it would be different, your boating. I have a saying with
    OB motors if they're running fine don't *uck with'em. 
     If your worried about the xtra 5 hp's. let's see... there are some
    advantages in NOT braking the 30mph bracket
    
                Under 30mph advantages
    
      1) Your hat won't blow off
      2) You can still have 1 hand on the wheel and 1 on a beer
      3) I think flipping over is a non-issue
      4) Chine-walking and porposing are out
      
    
      But, no matter what you do you'll still have guy's like me flying
    by you!! 
    
      So, save money and look at te advantages above
    
    
      "BASSMASTER"
    
      You really left yourself open on this one I couldn't resist...
    

    As you noticed Gary the 25 and 30 Hp are the same engine. The extra
    ponys are derived from carbuation changes. A new set of jets will get
    you there.
    T & T will really bring up your top end without sacrificing the bottom
    hole shots. You will of course want to get a Stainless chopper prop to
    use the extra Rpms. A 15 X 18/19 would do well.
    
    Next I would bore the cyls, 80 tho over, add new crome piston & rings.
    Port and polish the cyl and plane a new Wisco hemi head for the engine 
    with double spark plugs. Next you will want a Turbo charger to compress
    the nitro methane mixture and the LN2.
    
    Vaaaaaaaaaaa Roooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
    
    Walt
    

      I'd watch the change in the prop size if I were you. I threw a
    rod ina 55hp Evinrude, and one of the first things thhe mechanic
    checked was whether it was the proper prop. He was concerned that
    an inproper sized prop had caused the engine to over-rev, which
    may have contributed to the early demise of my outboard. :-(
    
      I now very seldom run at full throttle for extended periods of
    time. One expensive lesson is enough for me.
    
    -Ron-

    It doesn't sound like your getting the answers you need or were looking
    for. I enjoyed the comments from the guy in the high performance bass
    boat. There,s always sombody that will blow by you just as no doubt I
    would blow by him.
    
    As for your problem: playing around with different prop sizes(pitch) is
    much like changing sprockets on bikes. Lower the pitch and
    accelleration goes up, rpm's go up and most likely top end will go
    down. I've seen instances where top end goes up but were talking about
    light hulls with a lot of HP.  Going up in pitch would increase your
    top end provided you had the horsepower to turn it.  In your case I
    think the gain would be marginal.  I suspect the boat would become hard
    to get up on plane and would be very sensitive to weight.
    
    Working the reed blocks or going to lighter reeds helps increase
    horsepower.  This helps in the upper rpm ranges where sympathetic
    vibrations can be set up thru resonance. One thing to be cautious about
    as you increase rpm's over factory specs is balance.  Outboard engines
    are capable of running in the 6 - 7k range with little worry to the
    internals. The big problem comes from the flywheel on a stock engine.
    Above 5500 the stock flywheels set up a wobble which, if run for
    extended periods of time cause the top bearing to fail. This can be
    prevented by installing a balanced flywheel which dampens these
    vibrations.  Land and Sea in Salem is a good source for these types of
    items but they are expensive.
    
    One of the biggest gains in top end speed can come from the hull you're
    running. Being as you have an aluminum hull this might not be easily
    accomplished.  There is a process called bluprinting the hull.  This
    means that the last 2 feet of the hull are made straight.  To check
    your hull take a level and check the hull surface from the stern
    forward.  Look for any gaps between the hull and the level.  Most hulls
    have what is called a hook in them.  If you can see light between the
    hull and level in the middle while each end of the level is flush your
    hull has a hook.  If the center area of the level is flush and either
    end has light showing thru the hull has what is called a rocker in it. 
    Each will slow the boat down.
    
    To correct either of these conditions calls for a lot of sanding and in
    some cases having to add a filler such as marine-tex to the bottom to
    fill gaps and give you material to work with. It's a lot of work and
    you gotta be real serious about performance for it to be worth while. 
    I have had boats gain as much as 10 mph by doing this.  If your serious
    about performance this should be the first step.  If the last 2 feet of
    the hull aren't straight then adding horsepower or hopping up your
    outboard will give you limited improvement at best.  The imperfections
    I talked about in hulls are not uncommon.  All production boats from
    Hydra-Sports and Rangers to the less expensive hulls have this
    condition in varying degrees.  It's part of the manufacturing process. 
    For these companies to take this out would mean having perfect molds
    and letting the hulls cure for long periods of time before removing
    them from the molds.  This just adds too much time to the cost and
    manufacturing process.
    
    Other things to increase performance is to raise the height the engine
    sits on the transom.  This gets more of the lower unit out of the water
    and cuts down on drag. Your problem now would be to go to a propeller
    designed to run with the blades breaking the surface as they run.  The
    boat I run has the engine set 9 inches above the transom.  You can also
    run various types of lower unit oils that when they get warmed up allow
    the gears to turn easier and increase rpm's. The drawback is that they
    need to be changed about every 10 hours of running.
    
    I hope you kind of get the picture of what you're getting into when you
    look for more performance. Given that your hull is straight it
    basically come down to a horsepower to weight ratio.  It may not be
    worth your time and money to try and get more speed from the boat you
    currently have.  If your looking for more performance you would
    probably be better off going to a new rig altogether.  If your really
    serious about performance, get a boat with good potentioal then start
    doing all the above.

    I forgot to mention about your ideas in trim and expansion chambers.
    Trim helps your top end by allowing you to raise more of the hull out
    of the water thereby cutting down the wetted surface and drag.  Make
    sure your prop has sufficient cup to handle the increased trim angles
    you could be running.
    
    As for expansion chambers, the lower hp outboards dont have any.  The
    larger, and I mean much larger, outboards have tuned exhaust and a
    tuned megaphone to scavange the exhaust from the powerhead.  You can
    get tuned headers for your engine which are alot like megaphones on a
    bike.  They exit straight out the back of the engine cover, work very
    well but are extremely noisy.  Some states dont allow them except in
    competition events.  Hope this doesn't discourage you but these are the
    facts of life when trying to gain more performance

    Guys,
    
    	Good inputs. Mr Bassmaster just because you took my money once at
    Quinsig now your taking shots at my poor little bass boat,boy I don't
    get any respect. Just for the Record,your hat still blows off below 30
    mph,you still spill your beer,and I hate to say it but, came close to
    flipping the boat once(Bass boats aren't made to jump wakes like Jet
    Skis) at Winnie,by hitting the wake the Mt Washington cruise ship
    made.Seeing I wasn't catching any fish this is the only fun I had. But
    lesson learned I haven't tried it again.
    	Ron what you told me with the prop sounds like you went down in
    size and got more acceleration. If I make a change I'd go the other way
    to get more top end and thus would probobly bring down the RPMs. But
    what you say makes very good sense. My motor is designed to run within
    a specific RPM range and I don't plan to go above or below that range
    as it's listed in the owners manual.
    	Walt are you sure the Carburator change is the only thing? It seems
    that the difference in price of a 30 to 25 hp motor is higher than what
    it would take to accomplish this. Or did you mean I could compensate
    for smaller carbs by putting in bigger Main Jets. I would think they'd
    use bigger carbs but the must change something else also. Possibly the
    prop or different lower end?
    	Mr Villarosa you wealth of knowledge you. I really enjoyed reading
    your thoughts. Blue printing the hull is a new one on me. I think that
    with my boat being Aluminum it would be pretty tough to do what you
    where suggesting. Plus my Hull has a 10 year warranty on it also and I
    wouldn't want to do anything to jepordize that. Expansion chambers
    sound great but to mush of an extreme on a fishing boat. I did see some
    set up the way you said at Winne,boy they sound like a Funny Car
    cruising down a Drag strip.
    	The point you did hit my idea light on was on changing the prop and
    installing a Tilt and Trim. I think your right if I put a different
    pitch prop on to get me more top end,I might not plane off very well.
    With a tilt and trim set up I probably could compensate for this. 
	So it looks like the most sane approach with out getting to
    outragous would be different prop,Tilt and Trim,change the reed valves
    and maybe see on bigger main jets on the Carbs. I'll probobly due the
    reeds first and the jets second seeing these are the cheapest items.
    Then put a Trim and tilt set up on and the Prop last.
    	Does anybody know how well the aftermarket Tilt and Trim cuts are
    compared to and OEM set up? Has anyone ever installed one on their boat
    before? Are some better than others? Most of the ones I've seen for my
    small engine set up seem to just be a hydraulic unit controlled by a
    cable,no electrical involved.
    
    				thanks again,
    						Gary

    RE;QUES; 4
    
    I was reading your reply for Gary, and noticed that you said that
    bringing the motor higher up, like the prop almost hitting the surface
    I have a large shaft on my motor, and the motor hangs down a good
    18" bellow the bottom of my boats, i can feel the drag behind it,
    planing isnt really a problem, should i think about bringing up
    the motor a bit, i really never looked for an adjustment, or is
    this a major project so that you dont loose your motor in the mean
    time, for the reason of being raised up to high.
    i was talking to a couple of freind who live on the pond where i
    fish, they were watching this guy cruising around the guy banged
    a left hand turn while his motot kept going going, hit the h2o and
    has never seen it again, i cant afford a mistake like that.
    
    					Ronni
    who doesnt care, as long as it gets me from point a to point b and
    back.

    
     I'm basically a nice guy. I couldn't resist. You have gone on some
    tangents in the conference and it looked like payback time. The way
    I look at if your working on your boat your not fishing!!!
    
    "Bassmaster"
    

    Well it looks like the Bassmaster hit it on the nose. This note is way
    off the beaten wader track. But I don't mind if Mac don't mind. Boats
    have a lot to do with fishing, How else are you going to justify
    spending big bucks to the wife for a toy that you can really do
    without.
    
    Back off my Tangental. To raise the motor on the transom: You will need
    to hold it up (May need a Chain Fall) while you loosen the Mounting
    Bolts and remove them. Most engines have more than one set of holes in
    the bracket. Simply move the bolts into the next set of holes and this
    will raise your motor. Be sure to add a filler strip of wood or Alum.
    under the motor lip (on top of the transom) to help support the wieght.
    
    If the motor has only one set of mounting holes you S.O.L. or you can
    build up the transom hieght with Alum. or wood and fiberglass. to a
    hieght that you want.
    
    In NORMAL installations the cavitation plate of the motor should be
    within 1 inch up or down of the bottom of the transom. No more No less!
    
    The higher you move the motor, the less conrtol you will have for
    steering. But it won't matter because you'll be going so fast you won't
    see what you hit anyway!
    
    By raising the motor, you run the risk of cavitation of the prop. This
    will cause overrevving as risk of engine damage and will also "Burn"
    the edges of the prop.requireing rebuilding the prop.
    
    Another thing to mention is that by rebuilding your engine to Go Fast
    you will narrow the power band in which it operates correctly. Results:
    Better buy a trolling motor.
    
    re < 2 notes. Where is this underwater motor? I like to look for things
    like that as I SCUBA.
    
                                      Walt
    
                                      Co-Moderator
    

    Hi Ronni 
    
    I have 150 HP and it's not to hard to raise the motor.
    
    - trim the motor down on a hard surface.  (a 2x4 works good.)  The
    motor should be all the way down. Us the wintch on the trailer so
    the motor is touchin the ground.
    
    - My motor has four bolts.  2 in a row of holes and 2 on a slot.
    remove the two bolts on the holes.  Then loosen the two on the slider.
    
    - Next raise the bow of the boat with the front  jack until you
    line up with the next hole.  
    
    - Put back in all bolts and your off.
    
    I am running in the second hole. I tried the 3rd but too much
    cavitation If I made a sharp turn.
    
    Bob
      

    re; thanx for the help,
    the motor is in a pond in millbury, i have yet to get out and check
    it out., i've been waiting to get out with the guy who seen it fly
    off for a pin point location, but from what i heard, with the merky
    water no ones been able to come up with it, i guess its a finders
    keepers, personally, if what i heard they had a diver look for it
    and came up w/nothing, the diver probably relocated it for another
    day, it would be nice to pull it up w/ a drag hook, what an expensive
    catch for the day.
    
    			Ronni
    
    

Gang,
	I Found a deal over the winter and have upgraded my boat to a 30 hp
motor. Doesn't sound like a lot but this is a 20% increase in power over what 
I had. I can't wait to see the results. 
	I think I'll see where this leaves me then go the higher pitched Prop
idea next. I'll keep updating this note so if anyones intrested they can see 
what made a significant change and what didn't. 

						Gary

    	Well I tried out the boat with the same 13 pitch prop that was on the
    25 hp engine. With two people in the boat,the livewell full and all the 
    gear on board I was able to reach an maintain 30 MPH. But I had to 
    trim the motor much further out than I had to with the 25 hp motor.
    	So next I asked the dealer to let me try a 15 pitch prop. He asked
    me where was the tach when I was full out. I told him up around 5,600
    rpm. The dealer told me that he advised against using a 15 pitch prop
    because it might take the engine out of the right RPM range. But he
    gave it to me to try anyways.
    	I think he was right. With a 15 pitch prop the boat would go faster
    but was real doggy getting there and the engine would break up 
    and sputter real easy. So I think it's to much a load for the Motor. I
    did notice however that a new transducer I installed on the Transom was 
    creating way to much Drag. I pulled it up completely and out of the
    water and noticed a big difference but that's when I was leaving and
    didn't get a chance to run the boat flat out again.
    	So when I went out the other day to try the 15 pitch prop out again
    thinking that with this drag eleminated for now I had much more favorable 
    conditions. I played around with the Trim and with the motor out as far
    as the furthest hole would let me go,I got a top end of 34 mph but the
    tach was only at 4,900 rpm. Needless to say the boat was very hard to
    steer and when you did try to take a corner the prop blew out very
    easily. Not a desirable trait. Plus the engine was still a little to
    doggy.
    	So I'm going back too,and will stay with the 13 pitch prop. I think
    I might get a little more speed out of it than when I first tried it
    because the transducer was also creating drag when I frist tried out
    the 30 hp motor. 3 lessons learned; match the prop to the boat and
    motor specs the manufactorer supplies,not what you see on other motors. 
    Two any drag on a lite boat significantly impacts performance. Three
    it's more important to have a smooth running engine that has some
    torque to it rather than pure top end speed.
    
    							Gary 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Positions and got 34 mph out of it but the tach was only reaching 4,900
    rpm. The manual says the 30 hp motor needs to be between 5,200-5,800.
    	So I called the dealer and asked why all the literature that comes
    with the 30 hp motor has a 15 pitch prop listed on it. They told me
    that's just a starting point and you really have to tune a prop to the 
    boat to acheive maximum results.  The most important factor in prop
    selection is keeping the boat in the top end operating range that's in
    the manual And basicaly all the testing I did was confirm what they
    already knew

    
    Too much drag by the transducer!!!!
    
    What do you have satellite dish for a unit!!
    
    Sounds pretty far fetched to me!!!
    
    But, then again-- I do 49.88 mph with my transducer in and 49.92 with
    it out-- 
    
    "BASSMASTER"

    
>    But, then again-- I do 49.88 mph with my transducer in and 49.92 with
>    it out-- 
    
    Hmmm, must be some speedometer.
    
    Ed
    

    re .14 .15
    
    	Gee you guys make a good comedy act, together you should go out on
    the road.  I mounted my LCR transducer on the trolling motor and got a 
    Humminbird flasher unit and mounted that transducer to the back.  I was 
    using a flip-up bracket and had transducer too far below the bottom of the 
    boat.  So it would pop up and be flat across the water causing a rooster 
    tail and creating drag.
    	Probably on your two boats with the motors you have you'd never
    notice this. In mine, it did make a conciderable difference. It's now
    adjusted to the right height,and I used a different braket and
    everything is fine. Now I do 150.56789 mph with it up and 145.5634 with
    it down. Boy, I'm still losing 5 mph.
    
    						Gary
    	

    
    
     As I said,
    
     Get rid of that satellite dish !!
    
     And anyway, Just because you have all these fish finders... And
    you may be able to spot a few perch with them, you still have to
    get the real fish in the boat. 
     The fish don't seem to care if your boat drags due to having a
    satellite dish for a transducer, nor due they care how fast your
    boat goes, nor do they care how many satellite dishes you have
    pretruding from your hull.
      The fish only care if you through the right bait in the right place
    at the right time.
      Spend more time fishing and less time at the T.V. store 
    
      " BASSMASTER "
    

    > Probably on your two boats with the motors you have you'd never
    > notice this. In mine, it did make a conciderable difference. 
    
    Well, on my lil' Crawdad, with the 28, count 'em, TWENTY EIGHT
    full-blown-foot-pounds of PURE THRUST pulsing persistently out of 
    my Minn Kota electric trolling motor, I'm absolutely sure that 
    there's no way I'd EVER notice the drag from a transducer!
    
    Ed
    	

    
    
    .re .17
    
    Fishing ???  Who cares about fishing, when you can pick up
    reruns of the Flintstones and 152 cable channels on an LCR ??
    
    I hope at least you had the foresight to buy a Color LCR to
    go with that dish..... 
    
    Gus