Conference wahoo::fishing

    Dan, 
    
    That really bites.  It's too bad your son had to be a victim of that.
    
    Your not the only one, check out note 1112.10 and the ones that follow.
     
    I have to put on my moderator hat for a second though...
    
    Please don't imply that you plan on taking notes from this conference
    and sending them off anyplace.  We had some trouble in here awhile back
    when someone tried to do something similar (subject was the exxon oil
    spill).  I had folks from all over the company on my back for allowing 
    such solicitaion to take place in here.
    
    Don Mac

    
    Dan......
     Never has happened personally but the stories are numerous.
    Particularly in the last couple decades.....as the kinship of
    true sportsmen and outdoorsmen get smaller and smaller.....
     One of the major problems has been a definite course of game/
    fisheries management....instead of protecting the larger fish..
    the breeders....and introducing fish such as brown trout into
    waters that support smaller landlocks and brooktrout, the state
    And Their MOUNTED POLICE whip out their rulers and destroy a
    what would be Positive Outdoor experience for most law abiding
    people for the sake of an inch or two from a pint-size fish.
     Small to average-size fish take only a year or two to reach
    that size but as Lee Wulff so aptly states "A Sporting Gamefish
    is Too Valuable to Catch Just Once"--> this may not be exact,
    but I think it's close.
     Don't be afraid to tell your son about other people's wrongs!
    ....And let him think about alternatives...that might serve us
    all better....
    
                                          Maine_Born_/_NY_MASS_Educated
                                          Spring Creek Steve
    

re .0:

>>	How much money did the State of Maine make on that May, 21 weekend?


Initally $45 each from my neighbor and I.  Thursday I received another bill
for $4.50 surcharge and a form to fill out to plead guilty.  I was told at 
the road block that if I signed the back of the ticket they would apply the
bond to the fine and I wouldn't have to show up. I did and now they want more.
Will it ever end?


>> I fear that the vacationing businessmen will take their monies and go to 
another state next year or at the very least not go to Moosehead.  <<


Me for one.  In addition, I threw away my LL Bean catalogs and will never
buy anything in Maine or from Maine.


>>I felt that the road block operation was being run like the "GESTAPO"... <<


My neighbor called them the "SALMON GESTAPO".



I found one particular warden very obnoxous when he said he couldn't identify
that a fish was a Lake Trout because it had no head or tail.  (The skin is what
most readily identifies a laker and it was plainly visable.)  The attitude of
the warden(s) is what really turned me off on Maine.

keith

    
     At some point they (Environmental Law Enforcers) should, no MUST
    be taught that the roles of hospitality and environmental education
    play a much larger part in the well-being of OUR outdoors than the
    gestapo attitude encountered....  The warden service should have
    their Boys take a trip to other states to perhaps more than any-
    thing else....Grow Up...and recognize what Maine provides.
    I think some of them lack a good deal of perspective as to the
    reason us OUT-OF-STATERS drive Hundreds of miles to get up into
    the woods.......some of my grammar in these last two replies may
    be slippin'.....this is startin' to get my blood a boilin'........
    
                                                  Spring Creek Steve
    

    Hi Don, thanks for the inputs in .1
    I'll respect your wishes.
    dan

    I find myself hoping that you just ran into the biggest jerks in
    the Maine warden service and that, perhaps, most of the others are
    a little more human...
    
    ...also, if anyone plans to quit buying from LL Bean because of
    poor treatment at the hands of the Maine warden service, I think
    that Bean's should know about it. I imagine they have more than
    a little leverage when they want to. Find out just how far they
    will go to satisfy the customer!
    
    Ed
    

    Dan, I sympathize with your situation and agree with you 100%, BUT,
    you should have copied a few more interested party's i.e Dept. of
    the Interior, U.S. Wildlife and Fisherys, Pres. George Bush. Just
    kidding Dan, where did you get that list??? Remind me not to piss
    you off, or your son/wife.
    
    And you, KEITH, I would have thought you would have been waiting
    for the bell to ring and round one to begin. There's no law saying
    you can't cut the head off a fish, and I also thought that if given
    the chanch, you would have enjoyed going into court and showing
    up an offical who is suppose to know one fish from another by looking
    at the skin and body/tail shape. If you go to court, they have to
    provide the evidence, and that evidence should have been tagged
    and you should be given a reciept for said evidence.
    
    John.

    re .7

    >> And you, KEITH, I would have thought you would have been waiting
    for the bell to ring and round one to begin. <<

    I was too busy holding my neighbor back.  No kidding, he was heading for
    a disturbing the peace charge or worse.

    >> There's no law saying you can't cut the head off a fish <<

    In Maine there is if you are not going to imediatly consume it.

    >> I also thought that if given the chanch, you would have enjoyed going
    into court and showing up an offical who is suppose to know one fish from
    another by looking at the skin and body/tail shape. <<

    He wasn't stupid, the warden knew he had us by the short hairs and was
    enjoying it.  (Is that OK Don?  I omitted all adjectives and verbs 8-) )

    Newport is too far to go to contest it and I doubt that I could win.  I
    just signed the guilty plea and sent the money.  I hope to never hear
    from Maine again.

    keith

    ps  I have the Getziter (sp) of Maine and the Delorme guide to Maine
    lakes if anyone is interested.  $5 for both.  Use at your own risk.

    I have been thinking about this recently as I will be taking a 1 week
    vacation in Rockwood during the 2nd week of July and would prefer not
    having any problems.
    
    Is there some law that requires me to show them the fish I caught at a
    road block?   What keeps me from just refusing to show them the fish?

    Phil

rep .9
    
<    Is there some law that requires me to show them the fish I caught at a
<    road block?   What keeps me from just refusing to show them the fish?

	I can't speak for the State of Maine, but I believe here in MA the Game
Warden is the only law enforcement agency which can legally search your car
without a search warrant or your permission.  If Maine works the same way, you
might not have much choice whether to show them or not.

	If you get stopped here and the nice Trooper asks you to open the trunk
and you refuse, he may very well call his nice friend the Game Warden to look 
for poached deer in your trunk, and - oh by the way - if while your trunk is
open during the search for poached deer, the nice Trooper happens to see your
personal stash of nose candy (or whatever??) ---- YOUR BUSTED!!!!!! 

Al

    Hey Phil, as a past officer of the law it's like this..... They
    "WILL" have the last word, especially if they know their in the
    right. In the trade we referred to it as "P-O-P".... Pissing-off
    the-police.
    
    John

    If you'd like to read some more about what the warden service is
    up to in Maine, you might read the January 89 edition of the Maine
    Sportsman.  It describes the search and seizure tactics that went
    on on the Saco last summer.  Essentially it was a river roadblock
    with a lot of the same tactics employed as in .0.  Very disturbing.
    
    As a boy, 25years ago, I remember two incidents with Maine wardens
    that, although the wardens were technically right (I guess), sure
    left a bad taste.  One was on Beach Hill Pond.  My dad was showing
    my brother and I how to catch some bait fish using dough balls on
    the end of a small hook.  All my dad did was show us how to put
    the dough on the hook and then showed us how to hold the rod off
    the end of the dock.  Then he handed the rods to each of us.  He
    didn't try to nor did he catch anything.  A few minutes later this
    boat comes across the pond and pinched my dad for fishing without
    a license (he didn't have it yet and we were too young to need one).
     Then he hauled my dad away and made him pay a fine.  He was gone
    a couple hours.  Was he fishing without a license?  Yeah, I guess
    technically he was.  It was five years before my dad went back to
    the state of Maine.
    
    Some years later at Seeboomook Campground at the nnorthern end of
    Moosehead came the second incident.  We had caught 2 salmon, each
    about 15 inches long and were ready to eat them and prepared them
    for the frypan, cut off the heads and tails.  My dad has ulcers
    (probably from the first experience with the warden!) and his stomach
    was acting up, so we postponed the salmon lunch, instead to be a
    salmon dinner and put the fish in the cooler and went for a short
    ride in the car instead.  We came back and a minute or so later
    a warden came down to us, all friendly and chit chatty, then he
    went right to the cooler, openied it up, dug out the fish from the
    bottom and said that since the heads and tails were removed he could
    no longer tell if these had been legal fish or not and then proceeded
    to fine my dad for taking two undersize fish.  No amount of explanation
    disuaded him.  Again, technically the warden was correct, but were
    his actions proper?  Obviously he had been through our equipment
    while we were away.  (He went straight to the cooler immediately
    knew just where the fish were.)
    
    A couple years ago my brother and I were in the Andover area doing
    some Sunday scouting prior to opening day of the deer season.  We
    noticed a plane circling us for several minutes.  (Even though it
    was Sunday and you can't Sunday hunt in Maine, we were wearing our
    orange.)  A little while later a warden showed up, radioed to the
    plane, and started to question us.  He asked to search our packs.
     We asked why and he said he was looking for firearms.  We didn't
    have any with us.  I asked him what would have happened if we had
    had one, even though we weren't hunting.  He said that he would
    have ticketed us because just having a weapon with you is sufficient
    evidence that you ARE hunting.
    
    Moral is, make sure you are absolutely in 100% compliance and don't
    even think about breaking the law.
    
    In fairness, I've had some good experiences with wardens providing
    information and assistance and they do have a tough and sometimes
    dangerous job, but some discretion is needed in how they sometimes
    apply the law.
    
    By the way, in my area (Andover), it's the locals that regularly
    break the law.  Every year there are at least a couple illegal moose
    killings and not infrequently I hear rifle shots in the mountains
    late at night.  Often the guilty are caught and they do get stiff
    penalties.  Does my heart good when these people get what's comin'.
    

     Seems to me that the ONLY thing Maine has going for it in the way
    of generating revenue is tourist related activities. Period. Yet
    I keep on hearing horror stories about the increasing (and already
    excessive) costs of deer licenses, fishing licenses, etc. etc.,
    along with tales of gestapo game wardens and locals flouting the
    law.
     My solution is simple - screw 'em! Just don't go there; let the
    locals eat their new found poverty for breakfast and live in their
    trailers. There are plenty of other good places in New England and
    New York to hunt and fish. 
     I'm sure there are a couple of nice people in Maine, but if the
    only people you have contact with are the ones whose income is derived
    from tourism, and they aren't makin' it - why bother?
    
    --The Skoal Bandit

    To .0 and the others who have had problems in Maine: another
    possibility is to include Mass. newspapers in your mailing list.
    If they get enough letters like this to indicate that there may
    be a story, and they follow up on it, there would be substantial
    pain felt in the state of Maine.  The ultimate, of course, would
    be to get 60 Minutes to cover the story......
    
    Please continue the calm, factual, well reasoned way these stories
    have been presented.  Also, consider emphasizing that you fully
    support the law (and the goals of the law), but are very concerned
    about the method of enforcement.

    RE: 0
    	It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to send a copy of your letter to
    Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, and other Monthly Sporting magazines. 
    I bet one of those articles they have which had a picture of your son
    trying trying to sick the dog on a Game warden because he was being
    such an a-hole would.  Living in Maine from the experience I have had
    with wardens they definately think that they are above the law.  Maybe
    a nice Field and Stream article could bring them down to a more human
    level.  Then again it could make them worse.  would like to know if you
    have had any phone calls exct.
    
    Steve

    I had one experience with wardens while living in ME.  We were hunting
    up in the Holden area, staying at the house of a friend.  This place
    is in the middle of _nowhere_.  I had just come out of the woods
    into my buddies spud field which stretched quite a distance in each
    direction.  I started walking towards the house and noticed a pick-up
    parked on the road.  The road was a dead end at my buddies house.
    Instead of walking 25yds up one side of this road, I cut across.
    As soon as I did I realized my mistake.  The guy (warden) in the
    pickup came screaming up and wrote me up for failing to unload my
    gun while crossing the road.  Never mind that we were the only house
    on the dead end road.  What I should have done was either unloaded
    the gun or walked around the end of the road.  I still thought the
    guy was a jerk.
    
    Jeff

    My first experiences with Maine Wardens occured on my first trip
    down the Allagash.  As we turned into gentler water after Chase
    carry, we saw two fellas in funny grey pants with stripes on the
    outseams. They also had revolvers at the hip so we were a bit uneasy
    to be surprised in the middle of nowhere. To make a long story short
    the y checked all our gear and licences which were, thank the almighty,
    in order, this was also during a snow shower and we spent a bit
    next to the roaring fire they had going.  While drying/thawing out
    we saw them pinch two boats of Canadians who didn't speak English
    well, but certainly knew how to fish for large brookies.  They went
    threw the same drill and found 25 -30 brookies over the limit and
    I believe they paid $20 apiece for each over the limit. We saw the
    wardens check everything including a tackle box dedicated to hiding
    brookies. As I recollect they were all business when searching,
    but afterwards offered us neophytes some tips and cautions.
    
    We were also checked twice afterwards on this same trip for fishing
    licenses. 
    
                                                  

    
    
             Rich made me put this in here after telling him.....
    
          Went to Little Ossipie in Waterboro,Me a couple of weeks ago.We
          got there Thursday night around 10.Now if any of ewe have been
          there before ewe know they role the sidewalks up at 8 pm,so,we
          couldn't get liscenses until the next morning.Well being eager
          to get into fish we picked up some minnows and preceeded to fish
          for Lakers off the dock in front of the cabin.Well after a while
          a guy comes up in a boat and asks how the fishin is,so,we say we
          are not getting anything except loaded (which was a LIE!).He then
          asks us for our liscenses (HUH???).My friend says Liscense?? Ewe
          need a liscense?He says yes and I would like to see them.Oh boy
          its Ranger Rick.(Everything has switched from PARTY! to quiet).
          Anyway we say the stores were closed when we got here and we
          couldn't get them.He says "Then ewe shouldn't be fishin".He
          proceeds to write us up,so,he comes to me (The Keg) and says
    "What are ewe using for bait?" I say "Lets see" and I pull my line in
     and there is a Leaf over my minnow so I point to it and say "A LEAF!"
     I don't think he was happy with me cause he could see somethin flopin 
     around underneath the leaf.Anywho he writes us all up and the fine
    will be $93 apiece for no liscense,but he told us he can take our
    equipment but he wouldn't (WHEW!)
    
    
    
                          The keg (who will get a season liscense instead
    of those 1 and three day liscenses)

    Now I know Why I dont and Now will never go to that god for saken
    part of the country.
    
                    Maine   BLACK FLY CAPITAL OF THE WORLD!!!!
    
                    MY Kind of place
               

    Just a thought but has ANYONE ever had a good experience with a
    Maine game warden ????????

    
       Way back when I was a kid {13} my buddies disabled veteran uncle
    took us to Maine to catch some trout and salmon. 
    We stopped at a dam on a river near moosehead lake, I think it was
    called Canada falls deadwater, There were signs posted all around
    saying one hook lure fishing only. We decided that meant people
    who were useing lures, we were using worms, so it must be ok.
       I realize that the ignorance of the law is no excuse and all
    and we did pay a fine for the fish we had caught. The thing that
    was bad about it was, here you have a partialy disabled man with
    crutchs for support and two kids, yet the warden found it necessary
    to sneak up behind  uncle Dave and grab his fishing pole while drawing
    his gun on him. As the guy did this he was yelling to us not to
    move or he was going to shoot. Talk about scared. I still haven't
    been back to Maine to fish. I'm sure that that experience left a
    lasting impression on me that keeps a fishing trip to Maine on the
    last place to go list.
    
Kevin
    

    All my experiences have been good!









    Because I haven't had one. :-)

    Rich

    Well folks, so far to date i've received a letter from the President of
    the Senate Charles Pray.  He expressed his apologies and that the
    warden was overzealous.  I wonder if he caught the part that there was
    50 to 70 of them there....anyways he says he hopes that my wife and son
    get the proper apologies for the rude behaviors.
    
    OH by the way, I was a good boy once...2 years ago I caught a bunch of
    poachers who had just shot 6 to 9 deer on a game preserve on
    Thanksgiving day.  I was at the preserve fence (legal side...) and
    counted 75-100 shots being fired.  They spotted me and I had a chance
    to talk to all of them, they felt that I was harmless (6 guns against 1
    is not fair in my book!) and started to brag about the deer they all 
    had shot.  I made mental pictures of faces and names then I VERY
    QUICKLY went home and called the incident in to the wardes service.   
    I left a number where I could be reached if they needed me.  
    Remember it was thanksgiving day and I was due at the in-laws for
    dinner.  I told my wife that I was going to volunteer to stay and help 
    the wardens catch them red handed.  As my wife was heading out to see
    her mother I spotted a Maine State Trooper go by the driveway.  I
    flagged him down and told him what was going on.  I asked him to
    position himself at the end of the road where the poachers were to come
    out as it is the only way out, and look for a blue chevy pick-up truck
    that entered the preserve and that I would call the wardens back to let 
    them know of his position.  The trooper knew exactly where to be to get 
    these guys.
    I then relayed the message to the warden service that a trooper was
    blocking the way and the wardens were to releive the trooper.  I also
    notified the warden service that I was going to be at my in-laws for
    dinner.  I felt that the situation was well in hand and that I would
    read about it in the newspaper....
    Come to find out the troopers only stayed for an hour and then left!!!!
    (Reason was later discovered that the trooper had to go to HIS
    thanksgiving dinner!).
    This allowed enough time for the poachers to load up on the dead deer
    and LEAVE!
    The wardens finally called me after they had spent most of
    the day sitting in my yard waiting for me to come back.  I was at my
    in-laws 18 miles away when I got a call asking where I had been and
    where was the trooper?
    I never had the chance to get to eat my turkey dinner, I immediately
    took off to help and I spent most of the day with the wardens.
    Later that week they wanted me to visually identify some of the thieves
    that I had seen so I waited at the headquarters for another 1/2 day 
    whilst the wardens rounded up the criminals, which they could not do
    so they sent me home.
    As far as I know these poachers never went to trial and I received no
    thank you for my time and efforts.
    
    This sportsman's battery is wearing out....
    Maybe I'll go to Canada next year.
    Dan Michaud

    Ok Dan,

    I was arrested the same day you were at the same road block by the same
    curtious officers.  Was my court date different?  I was schedualed for
    June 21 at 11:00 AM.   Have you gone yet or did you send them an extra
    $4.00 surcharge with a guilty plea?


    The MAD filletR  -   keith

    I PLEADED INNOCENT! and was given a court date of july 26 @9:30
    for a trial.  So far no word from Commissioner Vail!
    dan

    This complaint was logged with the Maine Civil Liberties Union and
    support was denied for several reasons... I believe that the Wardens
    are getting away with their lewed tacticts.  The MCLU had asked me
    for all details of the roadblock from the time that I was stopped.
    Here goes!
    
                     AMENDMENTS TO COMPLAINT FORM                #327
                     ----------------------------
URGENT!!!!!
COURT DATE:  JULY 26, 1989 @ 9:30 NEWPORT DISTRICT COURT, NEWPORT, MAINE.
                                                          Today's Date:
                                                          July 12, 1989

ITEM #1.
========
These are the details of the May 21, 1989 roadblock.

On the way back from Moosehead Lake I was driving my GMC pickup with a 11'
slide-in camper while towing an 18' fishing boat.  My wife Susan and son 
Jonathan were following me in an S-10 pickup.  We had used the smaller truck
as a shuttle to go back and forth to Moosehead as we had left the camper
at the campsite for our extended three weekend stay.  

I had anticipated the Warden's roadblock ahead and instructed Sue to make 
sure to follow me to the inspection area, as we wanted to trail each other 
on our way back home.  The roadblock was exactly at the same place it had 
been in the previous years.

As I made the approach I saw the roadblock sign in the road along with a
Warden holding a walkie talkie.  He held his hand up to stop me, and told
me to drive slowly in the inspection area and to move way up because there were
other cars behind me.  The Warden then continued to talk into the walkie talkie.
As I proceeded, I was also stopped in the immediate inspection area a couple 
of times by other Wardens who also told to move up the line.  When I finally 
stopped I got out of the truck and checked on Sue and Jonathan who were behind 
me.  At this time my family had gathered behind my camper.  A Warden asked if I 
had any guns and I told him that I would get them and show him as he wanted to 
"check them out".

I went into the camper and the Warden followed me in.  I slowly reached for
2 pistols that I had hidden under the mattress and laid them on the dining
table.  I told the Warden to be careful as they were loaded and that I had a 
concealed weapons permit.  The Warden asked to see the permit.  I took out
my wallet and dug for the permit and presented it to the Warden, who then
placed my permit on the dining table next to the guns.   He placed his both 
hands on the table and said something to the effect that "it was a bad one" 
or "it doesn't look good".

He made a motion to a fellow Warden that was outside of the camper who then 
came into the camper and another Warden followed him in!  At this time I had 3 
Wardens in my camper.  I was really nervous and didn't know what to do.  
I could not see my wife and son, as Wardens had completely blocked the camper 
entrance.  Sue and Jonathan were standing outside and noticed the swift 
congregation of several more Wardens behind my camper (this is besides the 3 
Wardens already in the camper!).  Sue was wondering what had happened? 
I had not feared for my life, but I felt I had NO choice as I beleived that
the Wardens had the right to look anywhere they wanted to.  I had a tremendous
amount of stress imposed upon me by all the Wardens.  I felt very helpless 
and I sensed that something was very wrong.

The Warden (David Georgia) whom was scrutinizing my permit told me that the 
date had expired.  I immediately remembered that I had 2 permits and one was 
due to lapse, which was the one that Warden Georgia was looking at.  
I told Warden Georgia of this and I looked deeper into my wallet and found 
the new permit.  Warden Georgia looked over the new permit alongside the old 
permit for quite a period of time, before he turned his head and said that it 
was "OK" to the other Wardens.  The other Wardens started to disperse to search 
through my boat and the back of my S-10 pickup.  I did not want the Wardens in 
my camper but I didn't think that I had much of a choice.

The Warden Georgia was apparently NOT HAPPY with the discovery of my
current permit.  It was apparent to me that he had set expectations to arrest 
me.  I had noticed that his voice changed and Warden Georgia had acquired a 
very forceful attitude, Warden Georgia would not speak to me directly or
have eye contact with me.  I found this to be true from this time on throughout 
the remainder of the search.  Meanwhile this behavioral change made me very 
very nervous and I was worried what Warden Georgia might do.  I expected at 
this time that Warden Georgia was going to find something wrong with my 
equipment.  He seemed to be very disgusted at the loss.

I did not know what to do or how to deal with Warden Georgia.  My gut feel
said to get him the hell out of the camper but I did not know if I would
be in more trouble.  Warden Georgia was still in my camper when he asked 
"where do you keep the fish?".  I was still fumbling with my wallet and 
wondering if it was ok to put my guns away.  I was happy that all the other 
Wardens had left the camper.  I was trying to hurry with my belongings and 
answered the Warden that the fish were in the fridge.  I told Warden Georgia 
that I would take the fish out for him but he said it was "OK" and proceeded 
to undo the 2 rubber bungie cords that held the door shut.  He proceeded to
do this in a rough manner, and then yanked on the refrigerator door only to 
have a half dozen eggs spill all over the camper floor.

Warden Georgia then took the fish out of the freezer compartment and ran out 
of the camper, like a kid stealing candy from a store.  I felt that I had been 
RAPED!  I looked at the eggs on the floor and then looked outside to my wife 
who had a very disgusted look on her face.  I was waiting for an apology.  
I then knealt in front of the fridge to pick up all that was scattered
on the floor that I could salvage, minus the broken eggs.  I had made a loud 
comment that "the damn plastic egg carton didn't hold very well, did it Sue!",
soliciting for a response from the Warden (no response noted).

Another Warden then came into the camper, I looked up at him and didn't say 
anything.  He asked if I had any fish in the blue ice chest that I had on the
camper floor.  I said NO but he wanted to look into it and I lifted the lid
only to expose some soft drinks, that Warden left quickly.

I then got up from the kneeling position to follow Warden Georgia who had
proceeded to unwrap the fish on the deck of my boat.  Warden Georgia made
a tape measurement and showed another Warden the results.  The Warden who
observed the tape measurement results shrugged his shoulders and made the remark
to Warden Georgia "do what you want to do" then walked off.

Warden Georgia then walked over to the back of a State owned truck where there
was a board with the pencil lines marked on it and proceeded to write me a 
summons.

    
 (Please read my letter to Govenor McKernan for following details.)
                             ALSO!
My wife Susan also experienced very forceful and very rude behaviors.
One Warden had asked Sue to look in the cooler in the back of the S-10 pickup.
Sue did not feel that she could refuse the Warden's request.
Another Warden came by and overextended HIS welcome to other areas in the 
truck, the Warden doing this search saw Sue and stopped what he was doing.  

One Warden had asked Sue to look into the small cooler that was in the boat 
that I was trailering behind the GMC, Sue didn't feel she could not stop 
him as she felt intimidated by the mass hysteria.  At the same time another
Warden that was walking by started opening areas in my boat and was making
himself welcome to a search.  Other Wardens were looking into my camper and
pawing over our belongings as I was being summoned.


ITEM #2
=======
I would like the MCLU to represent me in my fight for my rights on July 26, 
1989.  I now know that I could have avoided this tragic event but was never 
given any opportunity by the Wardens.  I feel that I have been taken advantage 
of, I was obviously not secure within my person and I want to claim that my 
4th Amendment rights have been violated.  I believe that these roadblocks are 
illegal and the summons for the short fish should not be valid.


ITEM #3
=======
I was visited by SGT. Marshall of the Maine Warden Service in my home in 
Readfield (legal residence) on July 5, 1989 and these roadblocks as explained
are a management tool that is used by the Warden Service to catch poachers
and criminals.  

ITEM #4
=======
The Warden Service is operating within the shadows of the law with these
roadblocks that must be stopped!

ITEM #5 + #6
============
I have taken my plight to the public and received support from within State
agencies, my colleagues, my co-workers, newspapers, people I don't personally
know but that care and dare to make a stand.  Please see reference on "letters",
"articles" and "others" in the attached binder.

ITEM #7
=======
I have spoken with Thatcher M. Adams, JR., Attorney At Law, 26 Columbia Street,
Bangor Maine, 04401 tel:(207)947-0534.  He has submitted a letter that is 
in the binder under "roadblocks" to the newspapers thus voiding his legal
right to represent me in court as so stated to me by Mr. Adams.
Mr. Adams has contacted William J. Phillips of the MCLU and has discussed 
contents herewith.

    Case will have final decision August 9 1989.
    Dan

    	re:27
    
    	It sounds (by reading in between the lines) that you did not
    have to allow them to search your vehicle. Have you found something
    out since this event about this ? I too thought that wardens could
    search a vehicle without a warrant although this has always struck
    me as unconstitutional (along with roadblocks in general).
    
    	I have been in a similar situation where I was baraged by officers
    that thought I was drug running. To make a long story short, at first
    I thought I was pulled over for running a red light (right turn on
    red). They ASKED if they could search the vehicle but being in the 
    situation I understand your feeling of not feeling like you have a
    choice in the matter. I let them do it because I had nothing to hide 
    and it was a rental car so I didn't have to worry to much about
    damage. It was also a thought that if I treated them courteously that 
    I would be treated the same. In this case it worked and I gathered
    that they made a mistake and realized it. It doesn't sound as if
    you've been as lucky.
    
    	Just as a normally courteous officer can be altered through
    a bad experience, so can anyone else. I suspect your reactions to
    a future experience like this may be different as well.
    
    	Ray

    Dan, 
    	Well it looks like you really stirred up the pot. I just read this
    morning's Kennebec Journal and the outdoor column was dedicated to your
    case. Apparently you have the whole Maine Inland Fisheries and Game
    department in a sweat. They fear that the judge will declare the
    roadblocks illegal. ( I personally think they are also.) 
    
    Good luck.
    Paul

    Dan, why was the trial decision delayed to Aug. 9???? Are they looking
    into the constitutionality of the roadblocks or what???? AND, have
    you recieved any apologies from any Maine F & G officials????
    
    They ought to make a movie about this. I can't wait for the next
    episode. I'am on the edge of my seat, no kidding.
    
    
    John.

    
    
    
    			WELL!!!!
    
    John

We'll Ya'll I have kept tract of all of you who wanted me to let you know
what the outcome would be on my court case well I have some GOOD news for all 
to pass along to your friends...
Concerning the Newport district court case......
    
                           I WON!
    
    Jim Diehl the D.A. representing the State Of Maine filed a motion this 
    morning (wednesday August 9th')to drop the State's procsecution of my case.
    Apparently this goes against the wishes of Commissioner William Vail who 
    wanted the Judge to follow thru with a decision (don't know why??).

I believe that it be might rightful' if I continue with my original demands of:
1.) Get my fish back! I don't know what right they have in illegally taking
    my belongings!
2.) Have the Commissioner produce a comprehensive educational plan so his
    Troops can have the basic's for dealing with the general public and 
    also have the necessary skills to promote tourism, vital to our survival.
    This can include going to the school systems and educate the next 
    generations of the effectiveness of good wildlife management.
    (My son thinks that Game Wardens are not nice people like policemen!)
3.) STOP the needless roadblocks! I will be getting in contact with my
    local Representative for Legislative support.
4.) Personal apology for my wife Susan and son Jonathan. 
   (I jest might invite the media!).

I have stated these demands to Game Warden SGT. Marshall who came to my house 
on July 5, 1989 to give to Commissioner Vail.

As of this time I have not had any contact from the Govenor or the Commissioner
since the start of this whole ordeal.  I am ordering the whole case transcript 
from the courts for my permanent record and your reading enjoyment!  My lawyer
says it will take about 3 to 4 months for the transcript to come through.
Who knows might even make a good MOVIE!  Any Ideas on who would want to play 
the Warden?
    My price tag for this was $2000.00 +/- for exercising my rights!  
    And a week's vacation lost for hunting season...how much is that worth?
    I wonder if the state, now that we know that THEY are guilty ONES of 
    breaking the law, will reimburse me for my legal fees and a dozen eggs?
    
Dan
    

My friend ordered a transcript of his divorce trial. It cost him $1100 (right,
eleven HUNDRED) dollars, because they keep the tape but not a hardcopy.

Beware...

Art

    re:.33
    >>Any ideas on who would like to play the warden?<<
    
    My vote is for Clint Eastwood; I think he would make a fine warden.
    "Mister, you've got an undersized fish there, so I've got to warn ya;
    this is $500 fine, and will empty your wallet clean out!..."
    
    Congrats on beating those guys, although it would be more pleasurable
    to see them "egged"  after what they put you and your family through.
    
    -Dave A.
    

	Dan,
    
       	I hate to say this but if the road blocks continue in the same
    manner then you've only won a battle, not the war.
    
    	I suspect also that beating this in court was the climax and
    if it's true that you lost out on vacation and it really cost you
    $2k, then in a monetary sense, Keith is way ahead of the game. Of
    course I applaud you for your effort as I'm sure many others do. 
    As the saying goes, someone has to do it. Also, the lesson that your 
    teaching your son is most likely priceless.
    
    	Congratulations and regards........RAYJ

    Way to go Dan!!!
    
    They know it was an unwinnable case and have been dupping sportspeople
    out of there money and figure as long as no one fights it they will
    keep draging in the money. While you got them on the run I say try
    to recoop your losses. Whats your attorney say???
    
    These types of things have been fought and won before. My girl friend
    got a pretty good settlement from the state of N.J. for things they
    did and didn't do.
    
    
    Regards, John

      Congrats Dan! I too hope you go after them for your losses. That
    is if the lawyer will take it on contingency.  ;^)
                                      Denny

    Hi Folks' The Great Stare of Maine is immune from being sued!
    I plan to get every pennies worth from their hide....
    I got a couple of phone calls this week, one was from Gary Sherburne
    who has a case pending in the Supreme Court to stop the roadblock
    issue.  Gary reitterated all the details of his case and we found
    his case very similar to mine, ivolving the same WARDEN!
    I also got a call from a perfon who would not identify himself but he
    says that the Wardens entered his home and later summoned him with a
    violation for contraband, of which he did not specify.  Apparently the
    Wardens had been at his house the day before.  This gentleman asked why
    they came back and why the summons?  The Warden replied that the
    gentleman's wife was a %^%$#@ INDIAN and that the Warden knew there was 
    probably something else in the house that was illegal.  This particular
    gentleman expressed that no one was going to call his wife a &*^&*^%
    indian!!!  Guess what SAME WARDEN as my case and the Shurburne's!!!
    This guy better find another JOB!
    

    Dan,
    	Even though the STATE of Maine is immune to being sued, one
    of its agents IS NOT.  So, the usual method of going after the state
    for damages is to SUE THE AGENT.  The state then has 3 options (at
    least in Colorado):
    
    1) Back the agent (warden in this case) and by doing this give you
    the right to legal recourse against the state.
    
    2) Not back the agent in which case you have a case against the
    person as only an individual (not the standard tactic since the
    agent would then have recourse against the state since he was in
    their employ at the time).
    
    3) Divest themselves of the agent involved in the suit.  However,
    this can be construed (in Colorado) as being an admission of guilt
    for damages and allows recourse as in 1).
    
    	All governments are immune to legal suits.  Therefore, if your
    lawyer is good, he will file the suit against an agent of the
    government, thereby forcing the government to make a decision as
    to the merits of the case and opening themselves to recourse.  (learned
    from a couple real estate deals that were VERY SHADY!!)  Also, contact
    the other parties involved and file a class action suit against
    the agent involved.  That way, you all just pay for one legal advisor
    (if all your lawyers agree) and still sue the B**TARD!  Either way,
    the agents tactics get FULL PUBLICITY!!!  DOWs can't stand too much
    bad press.  Might be surprised how fast he gets transferred.  Worth
    investigating at least.

    
    Go after the officer and the manner in which the road block was
    used......
          1.  the officer....what a bogus representation!!!
          2.  the road block's location......it was located so far south...
                 hindering legitimate travel of legitimate vacationers.
                Any heavy duty poachers would not be in the open that
                  far south....I think...?  But there ARE heavy duty
                  poachers.....black bear paws/claws are one of the
                  hottest items on the black market....they're being
                  Decimated throughout National Parks....and EVERYWHERE
                  else....and unless you want to pay a lot more for
                  a lot more people ....road blocks will remain...
                  AND SHOULD!!!!!