Conference wahoo::fishing

One of the best repellents for black flies is SKIN-SO-SOFT.  I forget... 
it's put out by either Amway of Avon (it begins with "A").  It's real oily 
so you want to mix it 50-50 with water.  It works great for them little 
black buggers but does nothing for skeeters, so you still need to slather on 
some DEET stuff.

-HSJ-

    Yes, SKIN-SO-SOFT is the thing you need. It's distibuted by Avon.
    Not only will it keep the black flies from biting but you'll be
    the best smelling fisherman around.
    
    BTW, Ed, how did you do this last weekend up on the BIG lake. One
    of the guys that I invited up a few weeks ago is now catching alot
    of bass since I took him out on the lake and opened his eyes.
    
    
    Regards, John

    
    In one of our Flyfishing Notes...can't remember which one...a guy
    mentioned Mixing some DEET in with the Skin-So-Soft and had fantastic
    results.  I don't know if he meant the halucinations he developed
    or what......sounds effective though.
    
                                                     Spring Creek Steve
    

    Be carful about mixing insectisides together, you may end up dead
    or worse. A while back Hartz Mountain had a flea and tick spray
    for pets in a black can. It was deet and something else? The results
    were lots of dead dogs and cats. Hartz tried to hush it up but the
    stuff also made some kids sick.
    
    Best mosquito repellent in the world is Garlic. Tasty too! Just
    Eat a couple of cloves a day (Give some to your dog also, mine loves
    it) This will develop an anti bug chemical that is secreated when
    you sweat. It's safe and healthy for you!
    
    Skin so soft works for the no-see-ums real well.
    
    Best medication for bites is whitch hazel (rub on, DON'T DRINK)
    

garlic, hmmmm....  

There are also some things that you shouldn't eat as they will ATTRACT 
skeeters.  One food that comes to mind is bananas.  Apparently there is 
something in bananas that will work its way through your skin pores and end 
up luring them buggers in for a feast.

Anyone know of other things to not eat??

When looking for an insect repellent with DEET in it, be sure to check the
label for the amount that's in it.  Some insect repellents may have only
10% DEET, while others can have up to 100% DEET for maximum protection.
Since we live next to some woods, our kids doctor recommends 100% DEET.
The stuff that has only 10% in it won't do squat!

re note on skin-so-soft mixed with DEET.
Since DEET repels both mosquitoes and black flies, why mix the two?

A few weeks ago when it was just the black flies biting and no mosquitoes,
the Avon skin-so-soft worked great.  However, with the mosquitoes in full
force now (don't they seem to be biting harder this year?), I'm going to
need some DEET.

Another great thing about Avon skin-so-soft is that its scent doesn't
repel fish like other known insect repellents.

Mike_L

    The Cutters stuff I've been useing must have DEET in it because
    it keeps everything away including people. I was reading in a magazine
    that it tends to melt plastic, which is what it did to my pole handle
    after I put it on my hands. Don't get it on your plastic lense glasses
    or you'll have fingerprints on them.

One of my friends has hiked, camped, and fished extensively in Alaska. If you've
never been up there, you've missed one of the most beautiful states - one of 
the most beautiful places in the world, really - and POSSIBLY THE BUGGIEST!
Of course, the travel folks don't mention that. 

Anyway, my friend begins his preparation for his (almost) annual Alaska trip
a few weeks before his departure date by taking large doses of vitamin B. He
continues taking it up to and through his trip. Then, while he's up there he
eats a lot of garlicy food (and continues the vitamin B). Both the vitamin B 
and the garlic are exuded (if that's the word) through your pores; and, both 
of them are extremely effective as bug repellants.

Skin-so-soft and Repel are working for me in Amherst, NH.

Art

    I second the vote for vitamin B.  As a forester, I worked for several
    years in the woods out on the Olympic Peninsula (where the rain forest
    is).  The Peninsula is VERY wet and, in the summertime, VERY buggy.  I
    took vitamin B every day and it really does work.  The bugs (everything
    from deer flies to mosquitos to no-see-ums) will still land on you, but
    they don't often bite.  The big advantages to a systemic bug repellent
    are not having to worry about reapplying smelly, oily guck and not
    having get rid of the guck when you are done being outside.
     
    A dosage of 2 standard B-complex pills a day did the trick for me.  It
    actually is only one of the B-vitamins which does the repelling, but I
    can never remember which one it is, so I take a complex. (And still
    do, I live in the woods in a very swampy area and like to be outside in the
    evenings.)
    
    Pat
       
    

Interesting comments. I fully agree with the idea that what you eat can 
have an affect on your appeal to the bugs. I read in a book called "Sugar 
Blues" about how people who quit eating anything with processed sugar in 
it were not bothered by mosquitos after their physiology adjusted to the 
change. (this book also blamed the collapse of ancient civilizations on 
the consumption of sugar, too) I later read elsewhere that excessive 
consuption of sugar depletes vitamin B in the body, tying in nicely with 
the other comments on vitamin B usage. I also noticed that, when I was 
into heavy vitamin taking that I was much less bothered by mosquitos even 
though I was not a raging anti-sugar fanatic, so I concur with the vitamin 
B theory. BTW, I ate more donuts and coffee rolls this weekend than I 
usually do in an average month, and believe me, the thought occured to me 
that the bugs somehow liked me better because of it (c'mon boys, breakfast!).

Skin So Soft: I tried it Friday night. Oh, it worked alright. No mosquito 
bites while fishing at the dock, but the smell!!! I thought I fell into a 
vat of industrial strength old-lady-perfume, if you know what I mean. No 
wonder the bugs didn't bite! I'm sure I got some on the lures, too. One 
large bass darted out from under a boat at a Rebel crawfish imitation, 
stopped about six inches away, paused for a second, and went back under 
the boat! I think he said "Pew! This stinks, I don't want to eat THIS!!"
If I use it again I might try diluting it with water or something, because 
the smell was almost intolerable, ack! ack! gag! And find some way to 
keep the smell of the lures...

Garlic: Every time I put on the Deep Woods Off, all I could think of was 
that it smelled like bad breath, specifically garlic breath! Have you 
ever been around a group of Koreans who live primarily on Kim-Shee? I bet 
they don't get bothered by bugs! (Kim-Shee is the Korean version of 
Saurkraut, but *much* stronger)

My wife has very sensitive skin, and cannot tolerate most perfumes, etc.
on her skin, so when we went out fishing early Sat. morning she wore a 
nylon jacket with a hood, and sprayed the Deep Woods Off (100% DEET) on 
the sleeves and hood of the jacket. Now she has a horrible bumpy red rash 
on both arms, sort of like a t-shirt sunburn. We think it might have been 
the repellant seeping through the jacket onto her bare arms. Fortunately 
it seems to be clearing up. She might welcome the garlic idea at this 
point!

Thanks for the input, guys.

Ed

    I have a step father that eats ALOT of garlic daily. I think he
    said it helps him with his blood pressure or something. At any rate,
    the bugs seem to chew on him just as much now as before he was taking
    it. 
    	RAYJ

    
    Avon's SSS has always been great.  After that...I think I'll go
    with vitamin-B, garlicy foods, no banansa or sugar...etc And
    Stay Alive.....that SSS/DEET mix I read does sound chancy.......
    
                                                    Steve
    

     
    That's Bananas......not Banansa : _$_Magical_Fish_Attractin'_Drug
    

    RAYJ-
    
     Eating vast quantities of garlic is most definitely a repellant-
    just maybe not for skeeters and gnats. :-)
    
    The Doctah

    SKIN-SO-SOFT IS MADE AMD SOLD BY YOUR LOCAL AVON PERSON.  REALLY
    WORKS GREAT FOR THOSE BLACKFLIES.  I'D SUGGEST THAT YOU DON'T EVEN
    DILUTE IT... USE IT STRAIGHT!  PROBLEM IS... YOU START SMELLING
    LIKE SOMETHING OTHER THAN A FISHERMAN!
    
    A RECENT ARTICLE I READ SAID THAT AVON REFUSES TO MARKET THE LOTION
    AS USEFUL FOR REPELLING INSECTS.  THEY CLAIM THAT THEY WILL LOSE
    TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO USE IT FOR ITS' INTENDED PURPOSES.
    

    Wit all dat parfoom stuff an garlic an all chew people gonna smell
    lak one ob dem orgasm farmers dat don use dem chemical fertilizer.
    
    Me, I jes smoke a 10 cent seegar, an if dey gets too bad, I go to
    a 5 cent wun...I figger it'll get dem jes before me....
    
    
    Coonass

    re:16
    
    	Without a doubt one of the best ways to keep skeeters away is
    smoke from a cigar/cigarette. Unfortunately I stopped smoking about
    3 years ago. I never tried it but lighting up (what we use to call
    as kids) punks would probably work too. These are dried dung on a
    stick that we used to use to light fireworks with. They are basically
    the same thing as incense sticks without the scent. As I remember
    they're about a penny a piece. 
    
    	One thing I noticed about night bass fishing is that the mosquitos
    are worst from just after sundown till about 1 hour after dark.
    After that it seems like they slack off quite a bit unless you use
    a light to attract them. They're still there but they don't seem
    to be sucking on you anywhere near as bad. Maybe they just can't see
    you in the dark or the cooler night air shuts them down ????
    
	RAYJ

    My wife is both an Avon Rep and Part time Avon District Sales Manager
    tells me that the official reason the Avon does not market SSS as a bug
    repellent is the Food & Drug Administration. To be sold as a bug
    repellent it has to be FDA certified. 
    
    What we do with it is our own business but it does work great for
    keeping the bugs away.
    
    
    David.
        

    
    
             Lets talk natural bug repellent like ferns.When I was in 
             (believe it or not) Boy Scouts I was always told to use
             ferns.Just pick a bunch of them and rub them around in your
             hands then all over exposed areas.I don't know if it will
             work on the mutant ninja gweets that are around nowadaze,but,
             it sure did back then.
    
    
                                               The Keg

    My wife says they have unscented SSS. Anybody know if it drives 
    the bugs away like the scented (gag! choke!) stuff?
    
    Ed

    Re: 1150.19
    
    	If memory serves me correct there are two 'types' of fern -
    one of which is poisonous! Seems I recall 'leaves of three - let
    it be' ?!?
    
    	J_W_W_T_W_M_T_W_B_T_W_I_H_(M)

    Leaflets three
      Let it be
    Berries white
      Poisonous sight
    
     Applies to the poison plants- Oak and ivy (maybe sumac too).
    
    re: vegetable kingdom insect repellents
    
     I'm not sure what the technical term is, but there's a weed that we
    used to call sweet leaf. It looks very similar to a marijuana plant,
    except the ends of the leaves do not taper. (I saw a marijuana leaf in
    a book once. :-)
    
    The Doctah

    Chew cud rub yousef wit kudzu. Dat repels mos everboddy I know!!!
    
    Coonass

  re .19

	Way back when... we used to ride horseback through the woods here in
central Mass. and to keep the bugs away we'd attach small branches of maple,
birch, cherry (most anything we could reach) to our selves (in pockets, down
our backs, stuck in your hat etc) and our horses (visions of some jungle
guerilla using branches for camoflage).  It worked great!!! 


  re -.2 	Another use for the sweet fern (sweet leaf) is as a tea to stop
itching. This stuff is pretty good as a natural replacement for calamine
lotion.  I don't get poison ivy too often, but I'd just as soon use the sweet
fern tea and that ugly pink stuff.... Just boil a few branches in some water
and after it cools splash it on where it itches.

Al

    O.K. guys, I'am a sucker for anything that will replace insect
    repellents or SSS (due to the smell). So after writting Re. 2 and
    reading Re. 4,8,& 9 I decided to try the vitamin B complex AND the
    garlic (gel caps of garlic oil, scented. Because I didn't know if
    the unscented would produce the same effect).
    
    The results were none the less ASTONISHING. I don't know how those
    little buggers found out that my yard was a great resort area, but
    they did. Early last week it was a wild dash for the car and at
    least a dozen would make it in the car with me. The next ten minutes
    were reserved for "getting them before they got me" syndrome. Anyway,
    I acquired the suggested products from a health food store, and
    when this lady heard the reasons for these products she just looked
    at me a little funny, took my money and locked the door behind me.
    Well I am proud to say that I haven't been bitten by a mosquito
    or black fly while under the influence of these products (seems
    one Bcomplex and two garlic oil's work for about 18 hours). I've
    even worked on my boat with ton's of the buggers flying around,
    but they don't bite me let alone land on me. I also attended the
    ABA tournament yesterday, and early in the morning a lot of folks
    were complaining of the mosquitos and swatting themselves like the
    three stooges while I stood around bugless.
    
    I don't know if anyone's body chem. may not cause this type of thing
    to work, but it works for me.
    
    Thanks guys,
    The "bugless" fisherman, John.

    	re:25
    	
    	John,
    
    	It might be interesting (and more cost effective) to see if
    you need both of them. You may find that it's just the B complex
    that's doing the trick. 
    
  BTW - Did you notice if it had any effect on your fishing (i.e. body
    scent rubs off on lures) ????

    	RAYJ

    I thought about trying the divide and conquer theory, I'll try it I guess.
    You just want me to be the guinea pig.
    
    As far as the tournament went, out of 63 boats only 27 caught fish.
    I popped the first one 5 min. into the tourny. Sandra lost a good
    2 and-a-half lb'er which would have put us into 3rd place,. Hey!
    Shit happens. I think there was less than a one lb window between
    5th place and 27th place. Tough tourny. We ended up 23rd, 1.54 LM.
    
    I took this stuff thur. night and was out on winni. friday. I handled
    my own baits (gitzits and bomber) and had no problems. Caught about
    30 myself, some crusing, some on beds in about 5-6 hr's fishing
    largest, 4lb 2oz. So from this I don't think it bothers the fish.
    
    John.

    I bet it's the Garlic oil that's doing it. I never thought of using
    capsules instead of the real thing. You loose out on enjoing the
    taste of the herb if you don;t eat it. Not to mention all the Italian
    girls hanging around you.
    Try Garlic with Lamb, Pasta, Eggs & Toast, Fish, poultry and just
    about anything else.
    
    Its even good plain just as a snack!  Be sure to give some to pets
    and friends. They will thank you for it!
    
                                          Walt
    

    I have two very small dogs at my house. (Yorkies) The lady that
    grooms them is an 85 year old terrorist. (Like bring them in to
    be groomed with knots or worse, fleas!!)
    For years she has insisted that giving them garlic tablets will
    keep the fleas from biting or getting on them. Or by adding it to
    their food. 
    Like I'm going to argue?
    I get really bothered by mosquitos. Guess who will be looking for
    those garlic tablets. Hey Bandit - you kike garlic? Hope so.

    There are two types of the garlic oil gel caps available, scented
    and unscented. I bought the scented type because I thought that
    it was the smell/taste that they didn't like.
    
    A little note here, take two gel caps with a meal, beer, before
    bedtime, things like that, because I developed a little gas from
    them and when you belch you'll know that you've taken the scented
    type. Good luck and let the rest of us know how it worked out for
    you guys.
    
    P.S. As of this morning I just took the B complex pill and left
         out the garlic oil tabs, I'll let you know what happens.
    
    
    John.

    	Who's gona try the 'unscented' caps and see it they work?
    

This is all very interesting.  Please keep on updating us with your results.

Mike_L  Who_will_wait_to_find_out_if_it's_the_garlic_or_the_vitaman_B_that_
        repels_mosquitoes_before_I_belch_for_the_rest_of_the_summer!!!

    For the day that just the B complex was taken, I was swarmed and
    a number did land and bite but not as many as did a week ago prior
    to taking anything. With just the garlic oil (scented) I had only
    less than a dozen land and only two bite, and those two were very
    hesitant about doing so. I'am now back to the combination of the
    B complex and garlic oil and they would not come within a foot of
    me this morning. My son would wake up in the mornings with two or
    three mosquito bites and I've got him on one B complex and one garlic
    oil for the past couple of days and he no longer gets bitten overnight.
    
    I feel that there's something about the combination of the two,
    but I'am no chemist. I'll just keep taking the combination.
    
    Anybody else out there tried this yet????
    
    Anybody tried the unscented garlic oil???
    
    John

    John,
    
    When I was going through my health-food phase, I was taking plenty
    of vitamins, including B's of course. I also did the garlic oil
    thing for a while, too. My memory of mosquito encounters during
    that period is not necessarily that clear, but I do remember going
    through the season with very few bites. As I see it, the B vitamins
    counteract the mosquito-attracting affects of the modern day diet,
    and the garlic adds a mosquito-repelling factor as well. The two
    together would really be an effective combination.
    
    As I understand it, foods like garlic and onions, once they get
    into your system, put certain substances in your bloodstream that,
    until they are fully metabolized, cause your body to excrete those
    magic substances through the pores of your skin and your breath.
    I am not a biologist, so I may not have it precisely accurate, but
    I think I am essentially correct.
    
    If there is some attracting factor that is created from the modern
    diet - too much sugar or whatever - I think it might actually work 
    in conflict with the DEET-based repellants, and require you to put
    much more gunk on you than you otherwise would need to. All I know
    is that when I last fished Paugus Bay at Winni, early in the morning,
    those blasted black flies were ALL OVER me, in spite of 100% DEET
    Deep Woods Off all over my face, hands and jacket! Whatever they
    liked about me was hardly altered by that gunk!
    
    Ed

     I don't think "Deep Woods Off" is 100% DEET - more like less than
    40%.
     Jack H. - I'm glad there's no skeeters in steelhead season; garlic
    on top of your snoring would evacuate Whitakers...
    
    --the Skoal Bandit 

    
    If DEET is what you want.........try JUNGLE FORMULA.  100% DEET.
    
    Same stuff we used in the war.  btw, those skeeters were sooo big
    over there that if one landed at a MAG, often times it would have
    several gallons of fuel pumped up it's butt before any one realized
    it wasn't a HUEY.  Yeh, really
    
    TBDW

    
    >my son woke up with skitta bites
    >so i gave'em a vit B and garlic oil tablet.
    
    Not realy into taking or giving my kids internal things I dont know
    about, and we take a daily supplement not all in singles, unles
    it's a shot,a gin and ah beer.
    ANYWAY, does this stuff vit,B and garlic have any affect like turned
    stomach, etc etc, we do a lot of camping fishing, and when my son
    gets bit he swells up like the elephant man, i'm talking, if he
    gets bit in the ear, it turns to rubber and swells up twice the
    size of the other, if he gets bit in the fore arm you'ld think he
    was one of popeye's kids. He doesnt get bothered by it, like nothing
    happend, but have you seen a one eared dumbo, I feel bad but he
    looks funny.
     
    #1 do you take these things on a daily basis.
    
    #2 would you also suggest giving it to a 3 yr old? my son is 6 
    
    #3 should a consult with there Dr before doing so.
    

>    ANYWAY, does this stuff vit,B and garlic have any affect like turned
>    stomach, etc etc

Shouldn't. It makes some people burp a little, which taste like garlic.

>    #2 would you also suggest giving it to a 3 yr old? my son is 6 

Then why are you asking about a 3 yr old? Unless your 6 yr old son is a 
good pill-swallower, you may have a bit of a time getting him to take the 
garlic capsules.
    
>    #3 should a consult with there Dr before doing so.

It's up to you, but we've been talking about adults so far. The stuff 
shouldn't bother your kids at all, but don't feed it to them just because 
some of us say it works, then come after us if your kid doesn't like it 
or it turns him little tummy sour... You almost *know* the doctor is going
to play it safe and say "no"

Ed

    Notes>  set moderator


    Cool it gentlemen.

 �   DOES ANYONE have any spray to keep a preston OFF MY BACK.
    
    Sorry. I had no intention of irritating you, I just don't think
    any of us should make suggestions concerning giving things like
    garlic oil and B-complex to young kids. Too risky. I would, however,
    ask the doctor how much B-complex is good to give to kids, because
    (maybe) an adult vitamin tablet might be too much. Garlic oil is
    basically a food item, so that would probably not be a problem,
    but the flavor - yuck! I hope you do try the vitamins on your boy,
    though, I'd like to hear later that he doesn't swell up so much
    from a bug bite. Some vitamins to help that sort of thing. I never
    got heat rash after taking vitamins, so it can only help.
    
    Ed
        
    

	I have been avoiding chemical repelants when fishing ever since
the OldWoodsman Fly Dope melted the crank handle on my Mitchell 300.

	I've usualy been able to ignore the little biters except for
the masses we have after us this year. I read this Topic and replys
and ran right out to CVS to buy their B-Complex and Garlic caps.

	I've been taking two garlic and two B-Complex (containing
C and E also) daily for two weeks. Yesturday I fished some Army
Corp. Of Eng. watershead aroung Gardener MA and was almost carried
away! What are these Italian mosquetos? I'd taken the usual dose in
the A.M. and one tab of B-Complex and a garlic just prior to the 45
minute drive out.

	Any comments??? To a lesser degree this has been the norm
since I started the 'program'.

	Notes:	The B-Complex I use is 165% USDA on B-12 and around
			300% - 400% on the other Bs
		The garlic caps. eack equal 500 mg of garlic bulb
		I was wearing cologne (residual from the standard
			a.m. application).

			Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
					      meets the Westfield
						 by the Westfield
						    in Huntington (MA)

    Hey, Joe, who knows why it didn't work... maybe you ate a  donut
    before you went out, and cancelled all the benefit from the other
    stuff..!
    
    Ed

    
    Sorry Ed
    
    	
    	Ronni

    The only time I use the stuff or give it to my kid is when we need
    it, going fishing, working in the yard ect.ect. I do suggest that
    if you do take these that you do so with some sort of food or drink
    so that you don't get the backfire from the garlic. The ref. to
    the donut was made due that somewhere in the beginning of this note
    it was thought that sugar may get into your system and attract the
    buggers. I usually take them 3-4 hours prior to let it get into
    my system and I've noticed that it works for about 18 hours.
    
    
    John.

	Just read the latest issue of 'SANCTUARY' (a conservation mag.) as
there were quite a few pages devoted to the biting bugs. No space was given
to discussing vitamins or diet. The did say citronella(sp) was an 'A#1'
repelant and also discussed some new product for treating clothing that kills
the little blood suckers out-right and stays put for several washings however
.............  I've 4-gotten the name!

	Hey John;

	Do me a flavor and reply with the percentage USRDA (USDA) of the
components for the B-Complex you're taking.

				Thanks;

				Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
						      Meets the Westfield
							 By the Westfield
							    In Huntington (MA)

    The one I'am taking is produced by Schiff and called Hi-B Complex
    (natural B-Complex from High Potency Yeasts with B-12).
    
    Nutrient		Potency		%MDR
    
    B-1			3 mg		300%
    B-2			6 mg		500%
    B-12		5 mcg		**
    Niacin		1 mg		10%
    Folic Acid		2 mcg		**
    B-6			19 mcg		**
    Pantothenic Acid	40 mcg		**
    P-Aminobenzoic Acid 10 mcg, Choline 1.7 mg, Inositol 2 mg, Biotin
    0.5 mcg.
    
    ** = Need established, no MDR set.
    
    Cost $2.80 per 90 tablets.
    
    John