Conference wahoo::fishing

    I'd like to see a limit on them.  Since they don't keep well, why
    promote waste by filling up the fish boxes?  When we go, we keep
    one or two an release the others.
    
    Jeff

    A couple of fish per person seems about right to me. Enough for
    dinner and  a friend or two. Any talk on minimum size??
    
    Capt. Codfish

    Re: .2
    There is _some_ talk of minimum size, but apparently in relation
    to proposed limits. Down here in NJ and NY, our back bays are the
    prime nurseries for blues. From mid-August to mid-October, we see
    fantastic numbers of 'snappers'. In fact, it is widely recognized
    that theses baby blues are what most kids catch as their first
    salt-water fish. The general consensus at the meeting I was at was
    that "WE" have to teach the kids about Catch & Release, rather than
    have them take home buckets-full to show their friends.[It was pointed
    out that the estimated catch of young of the year blues was only
    about 5% of the available fish].
    
    Bagel

    	About the only way I can see anyone wanting to keep more than
    5 blues is if they were catching them to sell. With that being the
    case, a commercial licence seperates the average angler from the
    one catching to sell.
    
    	RAYJ

    I agree with Ray. if you are meat fishing you should buy a licence,
    only $50. in MA and your federal Lic. is free.
    
    I would lean toward a fillett pound limit rather than a fish limit.
    And no minimum. The larger a bluefish gets the more toxins it retains.
    The dark fatty meat is the worst. When you fillet your fish keep
    and use only the lower lighter meat and discard the rest.( Give
    it to a local lobsta man if you can).
    
    I've had days when I've pulled in over 80 blues and others when
    I've been skunked. But due to the fact that the meat does not keep
    well unless smoked I don't think a lb meat limit would hurt the
    recreational angler.
    
                         VOTE NO to a SALT WATER LIC.

    re: .5
    
    a couple of comments:
    
    1. "use only the _lower_ lighter meat".
    	I agree with avoiding the darker meat, re: toxins. BUT, most
    	documentation around preparing blues recommends cutting off
    	the 'belly flaps' (meat surrounding abdominal cavity). The flaps
    	contain a lot of fat/oil which concentrates toxins (esp. PCBs).
    
    2. "if you are meat fishing you should buy a license...$50"
    	One of the stated aims of the plan is to preserve the recreational
    	fishery. I don't mean to deny anyone their livelihood, but I
    	also don't want to see 'sports' become commercials because they
    	had a good day. I don't think a $50 dollar fee is a deterent...
    	back when I was young and more foolish, I would occasionally
    	sell my catch. At the dock, you could often sell blues for $1.00/
    	pound. It didn't take long to cover a $50 expense. Also, this
    	can kill the market for true commercials. Since they work through
    	co-ops and established markets, they get far less than $1/lb...
    	current quote is about $0.23/lb, and this drops during
    	July-October. 
    
    re: -2
    
    RayJ...what did you do with all those snappers???

    Ill throw my vote to a limit of 2 fish per person, which is more
    than adequate for any family. A size limit of 20" might be in order
    too to protect the new generation stock. I think this is a good
    move in light of the way the stripper stocks went, and NOW is the
    time. I personally don't think this will hamper any sportsman from
    having a good time. We have got to keep driving home the fact that
    coming home with hords of bluefish does not prove how great a
    fishing angler one is! I also don't think the $50 license is a
    deterrent...maybe $200 is more realistic....
    
                                Bob N

 I have kept the fillets from about 10 fish on a single day. All of the fish 
were eaten. I have a large family and many friends who love to eat fish and
enjoy it when I return with a good catch. For all of the times that I come home
with no fish, keeping 10 on one day does not seem excessive (the tuna were
safe from us last year, huh Joe, Bruce, Walt ? :-)) Perhaps a one day limit
of ten fish, and a posession limit of twenty fish would be ok? As the people
who have fished with me will tell you, I release far and away more fish than
I keep. But every now and then I keep a few. I don't want to be breaking the
law when I do. I suppose I would support a 5/10 daily/ posession bag limit on
blues. I think that you should have a minimum limit of 18" and an upper limit
of two fish over ten pounds.

 The Doctah

    Bagle The $50 is the fee for MA individual LIC. if you want to sell
    fish to a co-op or buy boat. They have a $100. fee to cover the
    boat and all aboard. This is the commercial lic. If you want to
    sell retail it wil cost you an additional $200 clams. So much for
    making a quick buck at the peir.
    
    The 80 blues I caught were on V.A. beach by the creek I was stationed
    at DAM NECK NTS at the time so I gave all the fish to locals who
    wanted them, I did'nt have a stove or fridge.
    
    I aggree with the Dockta about being able to keep what you need
    lets abolish all these foolish laws and instill consevation in the
    minds of people instead. It will prove to be the best way to really
    help the fishing.
                                   Walt
    

    	I certainly support the effort to regulate before they are on
    the brink of disaster. I'd be inclined to support whatever the marine
    resource management folks come up with (within reason) in terms
    of limits. The target should be the person who wastes the resource
    as opposed to someone who occationally keeps fish for the table
    or other purposes ... like Tuna bait ...:^).
    	I guess we all know of instances where people catch as many as
    they can only to leave them in a barrel at the boat lauch area or
    take them home for fertilizer. This waste is immoral.
    Regards,
    Paul

What about party boats?  I don't have a boat so I have to do my bluefishing
from a party boat with sixty some-odd other people (not my favorite way,
but I'll take it over not going at all) 90% of whom are there for the 1st and
maybe last time.  On a "good" day, I have seen 3000+ pounds of blues come into
the boat, half of which were left for the lobster people (Walt and co. 8^)).
How do you handle catch and release on a boat such as this?  Kind of hard
to see even a blue surviving with a �" gaff hole though its gut.  Same
for the way the crews "remove" the hooks from the mouths of these fish.
I hate to see limits put on fishing and agree with previous replies about
teaching conservation.  Have the captain of the boat say "These fish don't
keep well, so plan on taking home only as many as you can really use".  Then,
after a bunch have been caught, start netting them (tough on the nets, I
know, but these fish are still green after being caught on the rope and
telephone poles they hand out on these boats -- 50LB test line, complete
with 500 knots!) and letting 'em go.

Waiting to enjoy bluefishing (responsibly)
TIm

    I don't see where this is a problem.  There are limits on the number
    of salmon you can keep in the west coast and probably other types
    of limits in other areas.  The party boat fishes until the total
    limit for the boat is caught.  When the boat limits, it returns to
    port.  Everybody divides the fish and fills out their "punchcard".
    
    Having grown up fishing for blues off the Avalon Shoals and the
    O.C pots, I am sort of sorry to see a limit.  The thing is, I always
    threw big blues back except for smaller ones during the summer months.
    When the 1-2 lb snappers run in september......I can't remember
    throwing any of them back.  I never wasted any.  I'd come home with 
    20 fish and eat them all within a week.  Snappers taste great (personal
    opinion).
    
    Salmon, like blues don't keep well.  Here's how I ghet around that:
    
    1) If you have salmon or cold water fish you know you won'teat fresh,
       try smoking them.  Then they last forever in the freezer or by
       vacuum packing or by canning.
    
    2) If you can't eat the fish fresh but want to eat it later, try getting
       some small tray-like tupperware containers.  You can put the fillet
       in the container, submerse in water and then "burp" the lid on. 
       These are great because you can stack them in the freezer and you can
       put in just enough for one meal without wasting space.
    
    I don't know how I would feel about the limits.  While I prefer eating
    many snappers, I would hate not be able to fish at all.  I am now used to
    living with limits.  Unfortunately, salmon have been abused here and it
    is tough to catch your limit nowadays.  The population may slowly come
    back with some responsible management, but it is a shame that it has come
    to this.
    
    I guess it is better to do the right thing and be able to keep on
    fishing for small limits rather than to not be able to fish at all.
    
    /brett
    
    

What if the boat limits out in 1 hour of a 4 hours trip?  Those folks who don't
fish often and haven't gotten used to setting the hook and playing a fish
are left out of the fun.  At least after 4 hours are up, they know they had
a chance and they paid their $$ with the 4 hours limit in mind.  Same goes
for people who feel sick and sit down for a few minutes...the others limit
out the boat and they are up the creek...

EDUCATION and RESPONSIBILITY are the key to all forms of conservation.


Tim

    re: Party-Boat situation
    
    This was discussed at the meeting I attended. The Head of the NJ
    Marine Fisheries Bureau felt that a 10-15 fish limit would more
    than cover the situation. He explained that from surveys conducted
    in the past, those days on which the "boat is filled with blues"
    are really not that frequent.
    There were a couple of Charter Captains there as well. One stated
    that before he left the dock with a party, he always indicated that
    his boat had limits (2 Igloo 151's - when they're full it's strictly
    C&R for the rest of the trip). 
    
    Re: .11 
    That 50# line on 'telephone poles' is actually conducive to Catch
    & Release. Even 'slammers' over 15# can be winched in rather quicky.
    With a steel or heavy mono leader, the fish can be hauled up by
    hand, and using a J-hook type hook remover, released over the rail
    without being handled. This may take more time, but will stretch
    out the action on those blitz trips.
    Also, given the scenario of limiting out after 1/4 of the alloted
    time, it's going to be the better anglers who max out early. (You
    know...10% get 90%) These guys are likely to have some other tackle
    with them, and can switch to bottom fishing, etc. I don't think
    they will institute a boat-limit...just indvivdual limits. Party
    Boat crews will just have to remind the fares of the limits. In
    NJ they do this re: the size limit on fluke and stripers, and our
    CO's _will_ board boats to check for violators.
    
    Maybe Mr. Helsel can comment on this: On the West Coast, there are
    (have been) limits on many fish in place for a long time. Don't
    they still fill the boats every weekend?
    
    Bagel
    

    Oh yeah, Bob was right.  Here we use barbless hooks and NO gaffs.
    There is also a minimum size limit on several varieties of salmon.
    If you catch a short, you want it to go back out unharmed.
    
    The "boat limit" is the total of all the individual limits.  So
    if everybody gets, say, 3 fish, then the boat can take that many
    fish.  In addition to my own fishing endeavors, this organization
    usually charters a party boat once a summer and it is a social
    event.  What I've seen is that even if Joe gets 3 fish, Joe keeps
    fishing.  When the 15 people catch 45 fish, the day is over.
    
    To divide these up, Joe would get choice of his biggest tagged fish
    and then give his extras away keeping a small one etc.  We have a 
    "punchcard" which is a card with a place to write in your catch
    and the date.  If the fishery department searches your boat and 
    you have more than three fish/person, or barbed hooks or have
    caught fish and didn't enter them, you'll be in the market for
    a new boat when they drop you off at shore.
    
    If the boat limits in an hour, people are so excited, they usually
    don't mind going in.  After all, many would rather catch their limit
    and go home early than to fish for 4 hours and come home empty handed.
    If a guy is seasick and someone catches his limit, at least he gets
    fish to take home.
    
    Now, I don't think this is a ripoff.
    
    1) It's not the captain's fault.  He put the boat on fish and everybody
       limited.  Personally, I'd give him a tip for a job well done.
    
    2) It is the same ripoff for the guy that owns his own boat.  He also
       has to pay for the boat and the insurance and the gas to get out
       there and the moorage etc etc etc.  He has the same expense
       (probably more) as the head boat customer.  He also has to come in
       when he limits or if his guests limit for him.
    
    It works okay here.  Everybody would rather have a higher limit, but
    again, a low limit is better than no limit at all.
    
    Since salmon meat costs about 8-10 bucks/lb, it is treated with kid
    gloves.  No gaffs etc.  I never thought of treating blues likethat, but
    I guess you do what you gotta do.
    
    For what it's worth....
    
    /brett
     

    re:6
    
    	Rich, none of the 60+ snappers caught went to waste. My wife
    has a large family that really likes fish (not to mention my appetite
    for them). Doing what Brett had mentioned in .12 worked really well
    for snappers (i.e. freezing them in water). Apparently, the ice
    draws out the fish oils as it thaws which removes most of the fishy
    taste. My mother-in-law showed me that. I was a little sceptical
    at first but the proof was in the eating. 
    
    	Unfortunately it doesn't do much for the larger blues we typically 
    catch up here in N.H./Mass.. I tried this on 4 larger blues (10+
    lbs.) before I got my smoker. The consistancy was O.K. but the taste
    was VERY fishy in comparison to the same sized fresh bluefish. The
    rest of the frozen stuff wound up as dog food :-(
    
    	RAYJ
    

    And I learned how to smoke fish from RAYJ's recipe.
    
    Before that, I made a lot of dog food too.
    
    :-)

    Regarding Bretts reply a couple ago, can you keep fishing for
    catch and release from you private boat after you limit??
    
    Capt. Codfish

    re: .17,.18
    
    "ended up as dog food"
    
    Maybe we can get Alpo and Purina to lobby for limits :-)
    
   re: .17 re:.6
    
    Hey RAYJ...that was the first chance I had to pick on you since
    you moved north. :-)
    
    re: .16
    
    Thanks for the input Brett. Seems like management via limits, etc
    can work. [It works here too...but no-one wants to admit that the
    size/catch limit on stripers has anything to do with the strong
    population of schoolies last couple of years]
    
    Bagel 

    re : .19,
    
    This is a good question.
    
    I think they might want you to go home, but there are other types
    of fish you could fish for.  I don't know if the law is written in
    such a way to continue fishing.  From our experience, when we limit the
    boat, we get pretty psyched and head in.
    
    Bagel, the Striper is a good example of fish coming back.  Fortunately
    for you, you don't have native americans with tribal rights to stripers
    that can use gill nets to net the sh*t out of them.
    
    /brett
    

    re: 21
    
    Brett...
    With all due respect to Native Americans, I feel the west coast
    tribes may be pushing it a bit when it comes to stripers. I can
    understand the Iroquois' and Delawares claiming historical rights
    to stripers, but not those tribes native to the northwest. 
    
    I wonder what the reaction would be if NJ called back those west
    coast stripers, since they originated in our Navesink River. ;-)
    
    Bagel
    since they are from the Navesink   

    Last night I recieved a copy of the
    
    
    		"FISHERY MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE
    	
    			 BLUEFISH FISHERY"
    
    
    			    May 1989
    
    
    
    		Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council
    				   and
    	      Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission
                         in cooperation with the
    
    		  National Marine Fisheries Service,
    				the
    	      New England Fishery Management Council,
    			      and the 
    	      South Atlantic Fishery Management Council
    
    
    
    
    						(dated) 4 May 1989
    
    
    This is the DRAFT plan for bluefish on the East Coast.          
    The document is 75 pages long. As soon as I have a chance, I will
    enter a summary.
    
    Right now I can tell you that the public hearings (NJ's are scheduled
    for August) will probably be heated sessions. The heat is being
    generated by the proposed possession limits, and the alternatives
    offered.
    
    As I said in the base note, this is a rare event- a management plan
    being written in a proactive time-frame/manner. I think it is the
    responsibility of all sportsman to let our opinions be known to
    the various Councils. Let's not have this plan thrown away as the
    Secretary of Commerce did to the Bluefish Plan written in the late
    '70's.
    
    Bagel

    Well, Ive waded through the plan a couple of times, and have heard
    several dicussions on same. Here goes a very brief synopsis of the
    draft plan:
    
    1. Maintain a 80%/20% catch allocation between recreational catch
    		(80%) and commercial catch (20%).
    		This prevents a sudden explosive growth in the commercial
    		segment, yet provides room for some growth as historically
    		the commercial catch has averaged out at 10-12% of the
    		total. Indirectly this will also  eliminate the use
    		of high production gear (pair trawls, pair seines, high-
    		rollers, etc)
    
    2. Limit individual recreational anglers to 10 fish daily.
    
    (yep...75 pages reduced to the above)
    
    3. Alternative proposals (an addendum to the plan):
    		1. Take no action at this time.(Throw the plan as written
    		   in the trash.
    
    		2 - 6. Various limit schedules for recreational anglers,
    		   from 5 fish any size, to 10 fish >12" and 20 fish
    		   <12".
    
    		3. Various alternatives around the commercial sector
    			all of which (ultimately) limit them to no 
    			more than 20% of total catch.
    
    		********************************************
    
    Comment:
    	IMHO- (and the HO of many others around here) There is was
    alternative which is notably missing: Maintain the 80-20 split,
    but have NO limit on individual anglers.
    	Most likely, the above (grass roots) alternative will be presented
    to the Fisheries Councils at the upcoming public hearings. In NJ,
    the JCAA is planning to present this, and we are actively trying
    to get as many people out to the hearings as possible.
    
    Bagel 

    	Bagel,
    
    	What do the percentages mean ? If your talking about a percentage
    of the total amount of bluefish caught in a season, where and how do 
    they come up with this number ?
    
    

    re: .25
    The percentasges (80/20) do refer to the total combined catch for
    a season, from Key West to the Canadian border.
    The tally for the commercial catch is easily obtained from the
    commercial docks, who, out of necessity have to maintain accurate
    records (by weight).
    The recreational catch is basically an estimate, derived from dockside
    interviews, 'creel surveys', and other sampling methods. BTW- these
    extrapolated numbers are also used, in part, to derive the economic worth
    of recreational fisheries.
    
    Note: the bulk of the document is composed of tables, charts and
    graphs for the above 'numbers'
    
    Bagel

    
    Here's my 2 cents.
    
    I think a plan should be put in place to preserve what we have now.
    I would like to see a limit of 10 fish per person (regardless of
    weight and size) if this is implemented right now! "we will never run
    out of blue's".  Some people i've talk to would rather eat little
    snappers VS Big ones, supposed to be less oily/better tasting.
    
    I would like to add that Barbless hooks should be a rule for fishing
    blues (this would return the bluefish to the water faster with less
    damage and better their chances for survival) We all know that when
    the Blue's are running is very easy to catch more than 10 fish...
    
    Going blue fishing saturday... 
    MIke
     
    
    
    
    
    

    The Plan has been accepted/adopted by the Fisheries Council 'as
    written': i.e., commercial catches can 'grow' to 20% of the total catch 
    and recreational anglers are limited to 10 fish/day.
    
    [LOOP_HOLE ALERT]
    This is a FEDERAL PLAN, unlike the Striper Plan, there is NO SUPPORTING 
    LEGISLATION. What this means is that the Plan is mandatory in Federal
    waters, from a point 3 miles off-shore out to the 200 mile EEZ line 
    (the Magnuson Act waters). STATES may establish different INLAND (0 - 3
    miles) rules and regulations.
    
    Also, it seems that the purchase of a state commercial/sale permit
    eliminates one from the 10 fish limit.
    
    Looks like the 'sea lawyers' are going to have a field day on this one.
    
    Bagel