Conference wahoo::fishing

    What is the best kind of line to use? I was at Spag's the other
    day, and the guy behind the counter told me that a lot of people
    use 28lb test squidding line for ice fishing. They also had balls
    of rather heavy line that looked like gray kite string or twine,
    a little too heavy for fishing (I thought) but the guy said that
    it was ice fishing line. I bought the squidding line (braided nylon,
    I think - kind of beige colored) It *looks* like it should work,
    anyway.
    
    What do you guys use/recommend?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ed

    That sounds like the right stuff Ed.  I use a barrel swivel at the
    end of the heavy stuff and tie on a mono leader.  And remember to
    slide a button on the squid line so you can mark you depths.
    
    Don Mac

    Ed,
        I use the squidding line too.  I tie a large snap swivel to
    the end of it so I can change the leader when I go for different
    fish.   For Pike I use a 5/0 hook on a black steal leader about
    18" long,  For Bass I still use steal but you dont have to but
    the hook is smaller, 2/0. For trout I tie on 6-8lb teat leader
    about 30" long, I do this only because I have heard that trout are
    line shy, then I tie on a size 6 hook.  For any thing I usually
    fish about a foot off the bottom.  I have caught bass, pickeral
    and pike on rigs that are set up for pike, this weekend I caught
    a small bass (1lb) on a 5/0 hook with a pike size shinner, so i
    think they will hit anything when they are hungry.   Good Luck! 

    	I also  use the line, button  and swivel  setup  mentioned  prior
    but I do not  bother with  changing my mono-leader test. At the onset
    of each  season  I 'tune up' all of my tips;  tighten  all the little
    nails,  adjust the spools to be  not-too-tight-not-too-lose  (a spool
    that  is too lose  can cause the  same backlash  as bait  casters are
    prone to,  when a fish  makes an  aggressive  - short - run)  and tie
    a good  ten to twelve feet  of 20# test mono  to the swivel.
    
    	By  starting the  season with  a good long  leader I can  replace
    hooks,  suffer  break-offs  etc.  without  'going short'  for a  good
    part of the  season.  By using  ten or so feet  of mono  I can almost
    always  get  into the  'cod'  or  'squid'  line when  setting up  (so
    I can  mark the depth  fished with  the button).
    
	As for that  little button  - 'sew' the cod line through at least
    two of the  buttons holes  if not three.  The button  is then slid up
    or down  the cod line  so that when  the tipup flag is set the button
    is within the first few  (1 - 3)  winds of line on the  spool thereby
    giving  a means of  re-setting the  tipup to the  same depth  after a
    flag/fish  and, if it (the button)  has moved no appreciable distance
    after  the flag goes up  leading one to suspect  'mister wind'  or an
    over zealous  minnow.
    
    	When I'm  re-winding  the  cod line  back onto  the tip-up  spool
    after  a fish  has run it off,  and when I 'back it in'  for the day,
    I  'crank'  the line  back onto the spool  as apposed  to  'wrapping'
    it  back on;  spin the spool  by hand, with your  finger  on the side
    rim of the spool, with circular motions  similar to those made around
    ones  ear to  indicate  the opinion  that someone  is less  than well
    plumbed,  as I have  found this  eliminates  much of the 'twist' that
    develops  in the line  over the course  of the season.
    
    			Joe Whittemore - from where the Westfield
    					      meets the Westfield
                                                 by the Westfield
                                                    in Huntington (MA)

  Buttons? Do you mean real buttons, like from shirts, etc? If so, are 
  there other alternatives as well?

  Also, when you hook up with a fish, I assume you simply pull in the line 
  hand over hand (unless you're jigging with a rod), correct?

  Thanks,

  Ed
    

  I sent away for an assortment of ice fishing lures from Bass Pro, and
  they're all just little bright-colored things that don't look like they'd
  be too attractive to anything but perch. Some of them look like fish
  eyes. 

  What's the proper way to fish them? Are they only for jigging or are they 
  meant for tilts as well? Are they meant to be used as-is, or with some 
  kind of bait?

  Thanks,

  Ed

    

    
    
    
           Re:.5 Buttons from shirts??
    
               Yes we use the buttons from shirts,but,make sure they
               are not to loose on the line or they will slide to easily
               and not give you an accurate depth,but,not too tight or
               your line will get twisted and be hard to pull up and
               down the line.
    
               What a challenge trying to pull in a fish hand over hand
               people say,actually if you happen along a Pike or Muskie
               ewe will see that they are the ones pulling you in hand
               over hand.I like to wear these guys down before trying
               to bring them through the hole otherwise bass,pickeral,etc...
               come right in unless they are big boys so the key is
               just to wear the biggens down and yank the small ones up
               rebait and "GET BACK TO WORK LIKE I TOLD YA!!"
    
    
    
                                           The Keg
               

    
    Ed, if I understand what you have...they are called teardrops. 
    I use them with "waxies" a type of grub worm.  Jig them about a
    foot off the bottom.  From my experience they are attractive to
    panfish, ie. crappies, bluegill, sunfish...
    
    The way that I jigged them was about 5 or 6, four inch lifts of the
    jigging rod, drop it back down, (use a bobber to mark) watch your
    bobber for movement (ie fish) if nothing in 15 or so seconds..repeat.
    
    I usually use one of my five ice holes for jigging when I am out.
    A little action while I wait for MR. PIKE to attack.
    
    Gitzit'

Ed,

	I assume from your questions and your base note that you are
    are looking for really *BASIC* fundamentals. If I have misinterpreted
    this please accept my apology for the following very detailed reply.
	Lures will have to be jigged, either with a rod or a special
    tilt which uses wind power to move the lure up and down. I personally 
    don't like the wind powered contraptions and I seldom use the jigging 
    pole. Most ice fishing I do is done with live bait; either shiners, 
    tomycod or smelt (I've also seen worms used successfully  on trout). 
    Pick the bait depending on what you are fishing for and/or what exists 
    naturally in the lake. Shiners or tomycod can work on everything but 
    often Trout, Salmon & Lake Trout show a strong preference for smelt.
	The bait can be secured to the hook in a number of ways...through 
    the lips, the tail or the back (and probably a few others as well). I 
    prefer to hook the bait in the back just behind the dorsal fin. When
    you do this be careful not to go too deep because you may hit the
    backbone and kill the fish.
	When setting up the tilts for bass, pickerel etc., find the bottom 
    with a sounder (fairly heavy weight which clips on the line) and set
    up so that the baits are presented at different distances from the
    bottom. Set one for a foot or two off bottom, the next 2 to 4 feet off 
    etc. depending on how much depth you are working with.  When you get 
    action you can readjust everything to the "hot" depth. I usually end
    up fishing within 3 ft of the bottom. This is where the button comes
    in; it marks the line so that the same depth can be fished without 
    sounding again. I found some very small bobbers which probably work as 
    well as buttons.
	For salmon I fish just below the ice, no matter what the depth.
    I fish for Trout just below the ice also but only in shallow water.
    Although I haven't done any lake trout fishing, I would probably fish
    them right on the bottom or within a foot or two of it in fairly deep 
    water.
	There is a lot more that can be said about ice fishing but I don't
    want to monopolize the note. I'm sure others will fill the gap in
    further replies.
            
    Paul

    Paul,
    
    You're exactly right. I am looking for basic fundamentals. I don't
    want to be out in the middle of a frozen lake for the first time
    just to find out that I'm either missing a key piece of equipment
    or have used it improperly. I plan to try Paugus Bay at Winni this
    weekend, and it can get *cold* out there.
    
    Some further clarifications, please. Lures to jig: What kinds are
    normally used? I've seen the little Rapalla ice-fishing lures (little
    minnow types with the eye (ring) on the back instead of the nose),
    and I've seen Swedish Pimples, which look a lot like other plain
    silver-colored spoons, like the Kastmaster. Would anything bright
    and shiny do the job? How about jig-and-grub combos? Too "summery"?
    I planned to try jigging with an old Zebco fiberglass rod and spincast
    reel, will that do the trick?
    
    Buttons: I have a few of those tiny red and white bobbers. Will they
    serve as well as buttons? (I did have a cuff button fall off an old
    army field jacket yesterday - do you think that "means" anything???)
    Also, is the spool of line on the tilt set in the water to keep
    it from freezing? If so, where do you set the button/bobber, right
    at the spool?
    
    Bait: Does it have to be live? How about Salmon eggs? How about
    the CLAN's idea of using shrimp?
    
    Line leader: I have 14# mono at home, will that suffice, or do I
    need #20 as was suggested in an earlier reply?

    Sounds like enough questions for now!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ed

    I've seen the little Rapala ice fishing lure land some nice bass.
    This weekend I had a big one, 4-5 lbs., almost out of the hole and
    the line broke.  Ouch!!!!  This lure has tremendous action and it
    seems that most hits occur when it's sitting still after a couple
    of jigs, so be prepared.
    
    Bob
    

Re .10>

>    Some further clarifications, please. Lures to jig: What kinds are
>    normally used? I've seen the little Rapalla ice-fishing lures (little
>    minnow types with the eye (ring) on the back instead of the nose),
>    and I've seen Swedish Pimples, which look a lot like other plain
>    silver-colored spoons, like the Kastmaster. Would anything bright
>    and shiny do the job? How about jig-and-grub combos? Too "summery"?
>    I planned to try jigging with an old Zebco fiberglass rod and spincast
>    reel, will that do the trick?


	As I stated I don't do much jigging but I know the Swedish pimple
	has a good reputation and I'm not saying that just because I'm a
	Swede...:^) There are some small spinners that can also be used in 
	conjunction with the Swede or bait. They are white with a small red 
	dot on the spinner. The material looks something like mother of pearl. 
	I picked some up last year but never used them. They look good and 
	were highly recommended. The Zebco will work but the short, sensitive
	jigging poles will be less clumsy and they are cheap ($3-4 and up).
    
>    Buttons: I have a few of those tiny red and white bobbers. Will they
>    serve as well as buttons? (I did have a cuff button fall off an old
>    army field jacket yesterday - do you think that "means" anything???)
>    Also, is the spool of line on the tilt set in the water to keep
>    it from freezing? If so, where do you set the button/bobber, right
>    at the spool?

	As I stated, I use the little bobbers. Yes the spool is in the water 
	to keep it from freezing. Set the bobber near the spool with as 
	little slack as possible. If you use the bobbers, keep the hole free
	of ice if possible. I've been told that the bobber has the advantage 
	of lessening the feel of the gear to the fish. It act like kind of
	a shock absorber. If you are just marking the depth however, the 
	button may be better because it doesn't float and will not get fouled
	if the hole skims over. 
    
>    Bait: Does it have to be live? How about Salmon eggs? How about
>   the CLAN's idea of using shrimp?

	Don't know. They might work with the spinners I mentioned.
    
>    Line leader: I have 14# mono at home, will that suffice, or do I
>    need #20 as was suggested in an earlier reply?

	I think the 14# is ok. Just be careful when the fish is coming to
	the hole.

They above are my opinions but I know there are many other's out there with
more of this type of experience than I. I'm sure you'll hear from them.

    
    	Ed, 
    
    Just a few basic basic's to make your experience enjoyable.
    
    Dress warm in layers. it is easier to cool off than warm up.
   
    Bring a scooper for slush is drilled holes. IE don't put your hands
    in the water. 
    
    Bring a net for shinners. IE don't keep putting your hands in the
    water.
    
    I use wool gloves without fingertips and keep them on always.
    
    Depending on how long you plan to be on the ice and how comfortable
    you want to be there are others... just drop a line if you want
    some more suggestions.

    re .13
    
    Thanks for the tips. I have some experience dressing for long stretches
    in the cold, and am pretty well equipped, with the possible exception
    of a good hat (I have a hat - just not sure how good it is - we'll
    see). I even plan to try camping out on the lake some night, if
    I can get the coleman gas lantern going again (I think it just needs
    fresh fuel) they can do a lot to warm up a tent.
    
    Anyhow, the other tips, like netting the shiners, make good sense.
    I wouldn't have thought of it, but I bet it would have become ovbious
    after the first few times reaching in the water for them!
    
    My big advantage is that I'll be w/in walking distance of my in-law's
    condo on Paugus Bay, so I can always chicken out and walk back to
    a warm place if I really wimp out!
    
    Ed

    

    re .14
    
    Be careful when using anything with a flame inside a tent or other
    small structure. Other than the obvious fire hazard, they also consume
    oxygen. Best bet is to keep such items out of the tent.
    
    Just my two cents worth.
    John
    

	In addition to Oxygen consumption you had better be careful of Carbon
Monoxide. Perhaps a propane lantern would be better in this regard. Can anyone 
out there comment on this?
	I've done some Winter camping and was pretty comfortable without any
heat source. Just use a small tent and a good sleeping bag. A hooded sweatshirt
or jacket also helps if you don't have a mummy type bag. 
	I would not recommend camping out on the lake; the wind chill could
be fierce. Also snowmobilers like to zip around after dark and could run you 
down; maybe some reflective material could help with this. You would probably
be better off on shore or in a cove.
Good Luck
Paul

Youse guys,
    
I'm aware of how lamps and stoves to consume oxygen, and I would only 
use the lamp sparingly, and not while sleeping. The tent is a dome type, 
ventilated in the roof like an igloo. I do have a propane lantern which 
I might use instead. It certainly would be more convenient.

The snowmobilers are another thing. No matter where you are on the lake 
it is possible that one could come right by where you are, although 
the middle of the lake *is* probably a more likely spot. I guess if they 
miss the bob houses, they will miss me, but perhaps I can improve the 
situation with some reflective tape. Does anybody know if they use 
snowmobiles even if there's no snow on the lake, because right now there 
isn't any.

As far as the wind goes, I'm considering camping on the leeward side of 
an island in the bay. There are some good sized rocks in some spots that 
would discourage snowmobilers from going too close to the island, too, 
even if there is snow.

I might just be a lazy bum and forget the whole thing! It's beginning 
to sound like a lot of work!

BTW, has anyone had experience using non-live bait for ice fishing,
like salmon eggs, cheese, corn, etc? Any CLAN members care to fill me
in on the use of shrimp? (inquiring minds want to know!)
    
Ed

    
    
           Re: Keeping warm and dry.
    
               Anyone that has experienced cold feet while fishing
           knows its because your feet sweat and sooner or later 
           the old dogs start getting cold.Try using antiperspirant,
           Yes underarm deodorant on your feet before putting your
           wool socks on it keeps your feet from sweating so much
           thus keeping them warm and dry.
    
    
         Re: Camping in the winter.
    
           If ewe are setting up a tent clear the snow from the ground
         and set the tent up.Then take the snow and make a barrier about
         6 inches high all around the outside.This will help keep the
         warmth in and the wind away,makes it a little more bearable.
    
    
    
     
                                          The Keg

    re .18	Your feet still stink!
    
    re .9,.12	I have to realy question using a bobber. I would think that
    		the bobber would get stuck in the ice, I know you stated
    the holes must be kept clean but my expiriance is the holes ice over
    quickly unless it is a warm day. My opinion is to only use buttons.
    
    
    Rich

    re .19, Buttons and Bobbers...
    
    I only had one bobber and no buttons, but a guy who came by one
    Saturday said he didn't use either. He just ties a little loop knot
    in the line at the place he wants to mark it. I tried it and it
    works quite well - I just don't know how tough it might be to get
    that knot out after a battle with a strong fish...
    
    Ed
    

    re .20
    
    Thats the problem with bows/loops, they are tuff to get out. Buttons
    are the only way. Nice bright ones so you can see them.
    
    
    Rich

    
    
    
           Re:21 Bright buttons so ewe can see them.
    
    
                 Come on be serious Rich by ten bells ewe can't see
                 them anyway so whats it matter.
    
    
                                            The Keg

    
    	Just thought it worth mentioning that it is not a good idea
    to have a fire on the ice. The heat will melt the ice under the
    fire and cause it to extinguish itself. Also, and of more concern
    to us ice fishers, it's a real beach to cut into that old 1/2 burnt
    wood when  hand or power augering a hole.
    
    	If you've got a real need for a fire on the ice try containing
    it in a five gallon metal pail. They work quite well but tend to
    melt themselves into the ice which isn't a problem unless you let
    them stand cold long enough to freeze in. You can even make/get
    a small pail-top grill screen!
    
    	And now for something compleetly different ...........
    
    	Always set your tip-ups up so that the prevailing wind is blowing
    the flags into their keepers not out of them! Saves time and trouble
    chasing wind tilts!
    
    	and ................
    
    	I've got a friend who ALWAYS sets one tip-up up with a big fat
    night crawler! Says the trout love 'um but you couldn't prove it
    by me.
    
    		Joe Whittemore - from where the Westfield
                                      meets the Westfield
                                         by the Westfield
                                            in Huntington (MA)

    re :. 24 
                        -< temps, and dissolved oxygen >-

    Looks like my buffer never made it through the net...  Here's my 
    original question.

    In the winnipesauke ice fishing note I asked a question on how
    deep to fish for lakers through the ice.  Well I got my question
    answered.  I guess they like an optimal temp around 50-55, so I
    bought myself a thermometer and depth guage at Zyla's.  Its a cylinder
    with a thermometer in it.  It is spring loaded so that the water pressure
    will force water into the cylinder.  Has anyone ever used one of these?
    It was pretty cheap, $2.00 so I thought I couldn't lose...

    Also I have some depth charts that someone gave me that has some
    diamonds on it.  At each of these diamonds there is a graph that
    contains depth, temp, dissolved oxygen and PH.  I would think that
    a higher d.o. content would be better than a lower one.  These readings
    were obviously taken in the summer but I think the relative d.o. content
    will probaly be about the same at the deeper depths.

    So does anyone have any input on the dissolved oxygen content and it's
    relationship to lake trout? 

    George
 

    Also I was looking for a jigging pole for this weekend and everyone 
    was sold out, even Zylas.  The owner of the new tackle shop in Hudson 
    NH gave me a good tip.  Told me to tape a reel to the top half of my 
    bass pole.  I did it last night, used my oldest pole, and it looks 
    like it will work great.

    My brother gave me some HillBilly Hookers for Xmas. No they're not
    what your thinking....., they're some kind of metal, spring loader
    ice fishing tip up. Neither he nor I could figure out how they work.
    The manufacturer include directions but, the model that they referred
    too was very different from the ones we had. Basically these tipups
    are tripod mounted with a hook setting feature. I'm getting a lot
    of laughs from my fellow fishermen but I'd like to give them a try.
    Does anyone out there have these unusual tip ups and if you do,
    do they really work?