Conference wahoo::fishing

    Barry, 
    
    There are two types of batteries for fishing boats. One is a "cranking"
    battery and the other is a "deep cycle" battery. The "cranking"
    battery is the one to use for starting your engine and running most
    all of the 'extras' off of. The trolling motor should be hooked
    up to a "deep cycle" battery. Its well worth the $$$ to get one
    just for the trolling motor.
    
    Part of the problem you mentioned (not starting the next day) can
    be related to your using the battery for trolling. Your engine only
    puts out about two or three amps for charging purposes. Thats just
    about what a 'trickle charger' puts out. Cold engines need much
    more power to start then a warm engine (the heat helps fire the
    gas faster).
    
    As for the 6100....it will only draw about 200-300 milliamps. This
    should not affect your "current" (pun) situation very much if at all.
    
    By the by. If you do rig up another battery for your trolling motor,
    make sure that you use #6 wire or larger for the hook up. Small
    wire will create losses (heat/resistance) that will drain the battery
    much faster.
    
    Luck and tight lines, Ranger Ron

    	It will start when you take it out of the water but not the
    next day ??? 
    
    	The fact that you can run (what sounds like) quite a while on
    the trolling motor and still start your boat motor seems to indicate
    the battery is holding a charge OK. Maybe you have something draining
    the battery. Try disconnecting the battery leads when your done
    and reconnect them when you want to use your boat. If this solves
    your problem then something is in fact draining your battery.
    
    	Aside from all this, I would recommend you get one battery for
    your main motor, and have one for everything else. The gas motor battery
    should be a standard auto type and the everything else battery should
    be a deep cycle battery. Otherwise you are destined to get stranded
    one of these days unless you can pull start your main motor.

    RAYJ

    	I carry one battery in my small boat because the engine can
    be hand cranked if necessary. My salt water boat however has a 200hp
    outboard which can only be started electrically. I carry two batteries
    in the big boat with a switch that allows me to select either battery
    or both. When I am heading out I run with both batteries switched
    on to keep them charged. When I stop or troll I select one battery
    so that the other one doesn't get discharged by all the electronics.
    I may be going well into overkill but I just had the boat yard install 
    a battery charger on my auxilliary (8hp) motor. Now if I somehow
    manage to kill both batteries I can still start the 8hp and use it to 
    charge up the batteries enough to start the big one. I went to this
    extreme primarily because I do a lot of off shore fishing and I
    feel a lot better with several redundant components in the system.
    For fresh water I wouldn't be as concerned and like I said if the
    main motor can be hand cranked, why go to the expense of a second
    battery?
    
    Paul

    I basically agree with the other replys, with one small exception.
    I would highly recommend use of a deep cycle marine battery for
    both starting the outboard, and for your trolling motor. There are
    several reasons for this. First a deep cycle battery is constructed
    using heavier plates which will stand up to the vibration encountered
    in a boat much better than a car battery. Also most boats do have
    a rather punny altenator and require serval hours run time to fully
    recharge if you have a hard time starting at the start of the day,
    or if you start your motor several times without much of a run in
    between. A battery that is stored without a fairly full charge on
    it for a long time will lose its ability to be full recharged and
    lower it capacity. Also storage without a full charge will accellerate
    deterioration of the plates. I have yet to find a car battery that
    will hold up to the type of use it would get in my boat for more
    that 2 seasons, while my deep cycle marine batteries tend to last
    more in the 6 or 8 season time frame. I'm sure that there are people
    that get just as good a service life from car battries, as I do
    from marine grade batteries, but I think they are probably the
    exception. I feel the small amount of extra cash it costs for the
    deep cycle battery is pretty well justified by the extra performance
    it will buy you.
    
    Wayne Field
    

    
    Well here is my .02
    
    I use a very high amp cranking battery (like a car) then have two
    deep cylce batteries (24 volt) for my trolling motor.  All the extras run
    off the crankin battery and the trolling motor is off the deep cycles
    ones.
    
    	For some of the people out there with the high horse power like
    a 150 GT or a merXR2 or 4 these motors have big alternators. mine
    has 36 amp.  They have been know to burn out maintaince free battries
    like ac delcos.  So I have a crankin battery I add water to.  Never
    had a problem, I run 2 livewells lights electronics and have no
    problem starting the motor.
    
    BUt you can not get a better deep cycle than a delco.
    Bassin Bob
    

    Now this is starting to get complicated!
    Re. .2 & .4   Each has made some good points and missed at least
    one minor point in the process. If you combine the good ones you
    come up with want may be the ideal combination.
    
    1. Dual batteries have numerous pluses...redundancy...extra capacity...
       one for high current demands...one for longer but lower current
       demands.
    
    2. Both batteries should be "Marine" batteries. The design of the
       battery case, the plate spacing, etc. are quite different from
       a conventional automotive battery. The shock and vibration and
       yet to be mentioned the highly variable attitude (read heave
       seas). There a baffles which help keep the electrolite from
       sloshing around and finally, any "wet" battery will have material
       flaking off the plates. A marine battery has addition space between
       the plates and at the bottom were the flakes can accumulate without
       causing a short circuit of one or more cells.
    
    I have one standard Marine battery for starting. It can produce
    the cranking currents (100-150 amps) to start easily but does not
    deap cycle well.
    
    The second battery is a Marine deep cycle and handles the trolling
    motor ad electronics nicely. In a pinch I can start the engine,
    but this is not good treatment of a deep cycle.
    
    Both batteries are switched for charging from either the main or
    kicker engine. NOTE...if you have a "BOTH" position on your battery
    switch and do not have a battery isolator, DO NOT use the "BOTH"
    position. Disimilar batteries or batteries at differing charge levels
    will produce very high currents between them...possibly destroying
    one or both of them. My switch can be rotated from #1 to OFF to
    #2 without going through the "BOTH" position and I added a heavy
    bolt to act as a stopper, just-in-case......
    
    Jerry
     

It was my understanding that the conventional deep-cycle marine battery is 
designed to provide continuous power under reasonably low load conditions 
such as electric trolling motors.  I have also been told that this same 
battery is not well suited as a starting/cranking battery as it is not 
intended to provide high current capabilities as required by starters and 
that using them this way will quickly destroy the battery.

By the same token, a cranking battery is not designed to provide continuous 
duty under low-level loads.  The deep-cycle battery is designed specifically 
for just what its name implies, DEEP-CYCLE usage, and is able to be 
recharged many times after heavy discharges.  On the other hand, a cranking 
battery cannot tolerate continued heavy discharging and recharging.

So if this is all true, then it makes sense that one should have BOTH types 
of batteries for both types of uses.  NOW...I seem to recall that Sears is 
selling a NEW battery specifically designed to handle BOTH conditions...
i.e. heavy-duty hi-current loads for cranking AND continuous-duty loads for 
electric motors....AND it has the deep-cycle recharging capabilities!  I 
don't know what model battery it was...does anyone know?

-Joe-

Most of the sealed deep-cycle batteries have an indicator eye that tells you 
the charge condition of the battery.  Most that I have seen say that if the 
color displayed is green, then the battery is between 75-100% charged. 
Now THATS'S a 25% difference which can make a difference in how long the 
battery holds up under use.  Without the ability to measure the specific 
gravity of the acid, it seems that the only safe alternative is to invest in 
a battery charger that limits and regulates the charge current so as to 
prevent overcharging.  I haven't invested in a new battery yet, but I'm sure 
that I won't reinvest in a new charger.  I'll continue using my old 8-amp 
charger that has a built-in timer that provides a heavy charge for up to 6 
hours and then kicks down to a trickle (1-2 amps maybe?).

-HSJ-

    re:7
    	I have also seen the dual purpose battery. That may be the way
    to go if you are able to pull start your main motor. 
    
    	Also, according to the use and care documentation provide with
    my Sears deep-cycle, it said NOT to use it as a cranking type battery
    as it was not designed for that and would quickly ruin it.
    
    	If you just want some cheap insurance, get a hydrometer and
    go to your local junk yard and pick up a second hand car battery
    that doesn't have any dead cells. You can probably get one for about 
    $10-$15. I know it's not designed for this but I used one for over
    2 years as BOTH cranking and deep cycle before it died. If you just
    use it for cranking you'll probably get more than 2 years out of
    it and you'll always have your other one in case of a problem.
    
    	RAYJ

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Note 681.0                Marine Battery Charging help                 2 replies
STRATA::WOOLDRIDGE                                   12 lines  20-APR-1988 10:54
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    What is the best way to determine the charge on a battery? I bought
    a Schumacher charger (not automatic) and put it on timer. My question
    is, besides a hydrometer, how else can you insure you have a full
    charge? If I put a meter on the terminals I get 12.6V which is
    indicative of a full charge but without a "load" on it (the engine
    actually running) I do not think this is an accurate value. Am I
    right? I do not want to overcharge and damage the battery. It is
    a 10amp charger but I have noticed that it is putting out only 5amps.
    This may be because of the use of a long extension cord? I'd like
    to take the guess work out. Supposedly a timer charger is better
    that an automatic timer? 
                                      NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Note 681.1                Marine Battery Charging help                    1 of 2
COLORS::MACINTYRE "Don MacIntyre"                      1 line  20-APR-1988 11:46
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    see note 419.*
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Note 681.2                Marine Battery Charging help                    2 of 2
STRATA::WOOLDRIDGE                                    2 lines  20-APR-1988 13:32
                              -< NOTHING IS EASY >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks Don. Looks Like I invest in a Battery tester.
                                                         NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~~

    Just a bit of info,
                          Sears has a 10/2 amp auto charger auto shut
                   off on sale for 34 bucks if anyone is in the market
                   for one. 

    NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~...learning the joys of boating and empty wallets!
                                              

    Does anyone have a chart that list the battery noload terminal voltage
    vs. % of charge? I think at around 13 volts the battery is near
    100% charged.
                   
    Steve

    
    
    A 12volt lead acid battery should be brought up to a level of 13.2volts
    to be fully charged. The rule of thumb used by battery manufacturers
    is to charge the battery 10% above it's rated value, if you don't
    you may shorten it's life considerably because it never gets fully charged, 
    in addition, your not using it's full potential because the discharge
    time is less (hence, less hours on the water). Another point is to
    recharge the battery after every use, eventhough it may only have
    been used a short time, this is why your car battery lasts so long,
    it gets fully recharged as soon as it starts the engine (assuming
    the engine is run long enough). A battery left in a discharged state,
    whether fully or partially, will slowly distroy itself over time.
    

    
    re .15
    
    Is it true that the oppasite is true with nicads?
    
    

    	Your going to have to check under load which shouldn't be a
    problem since you have it connected to a trolling motor. I don't
    know how accurate this would be but you can try checking the current
    draw with the motor on high before and after you charge the battery.
    I suspect there will be some difference. Current must be checked
    in series so the meter has to go between one of the motor leads
    and the battery.
    
    	I also agree that by far the simplest and easiest thing would
    be to spend the $2-$3 and get the hydrometer. As Joe had mentioned
    though, there is a 25% difference between readings (i.e. 70% charged 
    may not look any different than 50% charged). The only thing this
    won't work with are the sealed batteries but every "supposedly" sealed 
    battery I've ever seen has either had caps that can be removed, a battery
    charge indicator (built in hydrometer), or both.

    	If you don't want to upgrade to an automatic battery charger,
    you may want to look into a timer (if your charger doesn't already
    have one). At least this way you won't turn it on and accidently
    forget it for a day or more.

    	RAYJ

    re.-2
    
    Nicad batteries develop "Memory Effect" after repeated
    charging/discharging and need to be completly discharged (ie. 0.0
    volts) then fully recharged to rated capacity to erase the effect.
    
    re. most
    
    The best and really only true way to check a battery's condition
    is to use a hydrometer and check the specific gravity of each cell.
    The battery manufacturer can provide the numbers, or you can use
    one of the car hydrometers to check it.  Most of the time if it
    says it charged full, its charged full.
    
    Ed

    
    	"Salt Water Sportsman" has done one of their "everything you
    	need to know" about batteries articles this month. It discusses
    	many of the topics brought up in this note.

    							=Paul=

The Sears Sensor II battery charger is on sale right now. Regularly
$99.99, now $69.99.

This is the microprocessor (68000!) controlled model that knows whether
it's looking at a conventional or deep cycle battery. It tapers the
charge, and finishes off a deep cycle at about 16.5 volts. It turns
itself completely off when the battery is completely charged, and if you
leave it connected (like, over the winter) and the battery starts to come
down, it will wake up, top off again, then shut down.

It has an alarm to let you know it's finished. Has a 10 amp / 2 amp
switch and a voltmeter.

I waited months for it go on sale, scanning the ads. Just happened to see
it in the store last night, and bought one.

Art

       The 10-2-50 is also on sale. The 50 amp setting can be used to
    jump start a car. I bought this one last year, I don't see it in
    the stores (Sears) very often, I think they are a special purchase.
                                                  Denny