Conference wahoo::fishing

    I  used to use stren but did not like it, seems like the fish
    can see it and it is not IGFA rated. I now use ANDE Tournement 
    (IGFA rated) and
    it is tough as nails and does not stretch. I have pulled lobster
    traps up on 50lb test. It is also nearly invisable in the waters off
    Mass.  I also like Trilene XT for lighter lines and may try the
    Trilene Big Game line. Overall any "premium" line will outfish
    your basic kmart variety. Good line is definitly worth the extra
    bucks.
                                                          
    Bruce

    TRILINE XL  for all
    
    
    NEVER , NEVER , NEVER SIGMA .........

    I vote for Bagley's Silver Thread.. A good copolymere line smaller
    in dia. than Stren and Trilene in the same weight class.  Cost a
    little more but is well worth it givin its castability and durability.
    
    Ron...

    Trilene XL clear for up to 12lb - Trilene XT green for over 12lb
    
    I tried that Stren flourescent blue... nice and limp, and easy to
    see - for me AND THE BASS... (or at least it appears that way to
    me)... 
    
    I tried a bunch of different ones... I'll stick with Trilene....
                                         
    Don Mac

    I tried "Prime" when it first came out.  There seemed to be a problem
    with the line breaking right at the knot.  I think I used both 14
    lb. and 17 lb. line and they both had the same problem.  Since I
    was using it on my surf reels I wrote the problem off to the stress
    produced when casting long distances with heavy lead. (I was also
    using 40 lb. shock leader). I've since gone back to Ande with none
    of the above problems.  Does anyone have experience with the new
    Prime Plus?
    
    JOE D
    

               Aother vote for Trilene XL, clear. No problems with it
    at all. I use XT if fishing rivers and streams. 
    
    
                 Bob

    
    I used to use stren but did not like the blue and it twisted a lot.
    I switch to trilene and used both the Xl and XT I use the XL when
    fising for trout and the light line bass and XT for most of my
    tournament lines.  I got a chance to sample tri-max before it
    came out on the market and liked it very much,  Now I use the tri-Max
    instead of the XT but still use some xl ( got to use up those bulk
    spools).
    
    I did do a comparison between prime and tri-max, Tri-max wins hands
    down.  If anyone wants the details call me.  The new stren with
    the 3 lines is in the same class as tri-max.  I have not had a chance
    to test it and will not till my bulk spools are all gone!
    
    Hope this helps you out worm.
    Bassin Bop

I vote for Berkley TriMax.  It's small diameter for a given strength, limp,
seems to have less memory than some others.  Seems fairly abraision resistant.
Costs a little more (don't all the top of the line lines).  Second choice
goes to Trilene XL.

						Al

    I just bought some Damel Tectan (sp) from Cabales.  It was 12# and
    seems to have a very small diamater.  I'll have to wait and see
    how it works.

    Keith

    Trilene XL and Stren up to about 8lb test. I find that Stren tends
    to stretch too much for heavy fishing. SIGMA SUCKS. I use prime
    for the heavy stuff. I have found that Stren will last a little
    longer on the reel. I never use Stren in rocky areas it seems to
    nick easy. 
    
                                 
    			       BUCKETMOUTH 
                                    

    I agree about STREN being abit poor for abrasive resistance. I give
    some credo to flourescent line bothering? Bass but not much. I like
    Tri Max however found it almost too limp and snarls easy..(not that
    I ever get snarls) I like the flourescent aspect. It is often difficult
    to see a top water lure in heavy cover after a cast and being able
    to follow the line is a PRIME PLUS. I am interested in the NEW STREN
    and plan to try it. I like the trimax for ultra light gear.
    
                                                NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~~~ 

    Prime, Tri-Max and Trilene XL are my choices. I perfer Tri-Max and
    Prime for baitcasting and XL for my spinning reels. I lost to much
    time digging out birds nests with Stren(may have been the operator,
    equipment or both; but I won't use anymore). I tried Prime on the
    spinning reels and thought I was getting to many little loops on
    the spool ( the kind you see sticking up out of the spool after
    you started reeling). One final comment, I like to use 4lb. Tri-Max
    on my ultra-light. I believe it has more strenth and durability
    than XL. 
    
    Anybody see the winter issue of In-Fisherman in the kids section.
    Some college in N.J. did research on the strength of certain knots
    using several different name brand lines and variuos lb. tests.
    
    
    					Ed

       I've used Stern for a couple of years and was not to happy, 
    Trilene seemed better.  Last year I tried EXCEL out of the BASS-PRO
    catalog.  I got in the habit of changing my line the night before
    every tourney (once a month minimun) I havent used the EXCEL for
    long durations on the reel, but I think it is as good if not better
    than any line I've used, and the price cant be beat.   This year
    I bought an assortment of sizes to handle  all the variation I 
    fish.  I think the real test will be trolling for trout, that 
    always destroys line.
    
    Les  

    
    I always use K-Mart Sportfisher GT+ 15lb test...
    
    I use it on my Zebco 404 combo, change the line every year
    whether it needs it or not.
    
    Never any problems - them perch don't know the difference, and
    at $1.89 for 250 miles of line it can't be beat!

    Ed
    

    Here's another vote for ANDE... us saltwater types stick together!
    
    Seriously, though, for the money, ANDE can't be beat, especially
    since I can fill a spool 3 times (at least) per season for 5 or
    6 bucks.
    
    And now for an UNPAID POLITICAL ANNOUNCEMENT:
    
    	Re: the users of STREN, PRIME, PRIME-PLUS and other fishing/boating
    products produced by DU PONT- currently several fishing organizations
    in the Mid-Atlantic Area are boycotting DUPONT products in protest
    of their continued DUMPING OF TOXIC WASTES at the 106 Mile site
    off the Jersey Coast. DUPONT refuses to acknowledge the presence
    of marine game- and food- fish at this site, as well as the presence
    of Porpoises, whales, sea turtles and other life forms. The 106
    lies smack in the middle of the apparent off-shore migration routes
    of most of our pelagic gamefish, especially the TUNAs. 
    I, repeat I, urge my fellow anglers not to buy DUPONT fishing/boating
    products until they, at least, stop dumping toxics in the Ocean.
    
    Rich _the_flaming_Bagel_

    re:.15  Geez Rich, 
                        Thank God thats happening in Jersey and not
    in Masachusetts! Ha!.....But seriously, that IS sick!
                       

    RE: .14    Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.
                                   
     
    				B         H
                                 U       T
                                  C     U
                                   K   O
                                    ETM

    Most of the guys I know up Pulaski way like the green Ande, although
    lately the two guys I consider the very best up there have switched
    to Bagley's "Silver Thread". This kind of fishing requires extreme
    sensitivity, low stretch and abrasion resistance.
     I tried the original "Prime" two years ago, and thought it nicked
    too easily, and when it did - bye bye !
    
    --The Spitting Bandit
    

    
    I have to add another vote for Trilene XL. I use #6 on most of my
    rods and generally tie a #10 XT leader when I fish for heavier species.
    I have to agree with previous note on use of Ande for salt and 
    Salmon fishing #20.

    In .13 I mentioned the In-Fisherman article about knots and lines.
    Last night I reviewed it and the research was not based on line
    type as I had thought. It was type knot by lb. test. 
    
    I confused the trilene knot with a type of line. 
    
    Must be the spring fever! 
    
    				Ed

    I SWEAR BY MAXIMA I'M SUPRISED NOBODY ELSE MENTIONED IT.
    IT'S LIMP AND INVISIBLE UNDER WATER AND RESIST KNOTING UP.
    THE ONLY DISADVANTAGE IS THAT IT'S HARD TO SEE WHERE YOUR
    LINE MEETS THE WATER  BUT IS'S JUST THE THING TO USE FOR
    SPOOKY STEELHEAD IN CLEAR WATER. DO THEY SELL IT BACK
    EAST?

    I have seen MAXIMA but never tried it.
                                          
                                             NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~~~~
                                        (out east waiting for ICE-OUT!)
                                         

    I do have one spool of Maxima line I use at quabin.   It is the
    secrect line.   I have tried it for bass, but, it does not take
    the abouse. It cost a lot to rechange it!
    Bassin Bob
    

    I use Maxima - but for leaders of 2 to 8 feet or so.
    Ive tried of regular Maxima
    on a spinning reel - and returned to Ande. Like Ande better for
    the spinner. I assume the quabin spool was a trolling reel? (.23)
    The leaders are used on Lake Ontario trolling, in the Pulaski
    River with steelhead spinning gear and here in NH at Winni trolling
    with both spinning and trolling reels. (fish are MUCH smaller.)
    I entered the Winni Derby for the first
    time last year with Mr Sky (Rick) King - his 1st time too - and
    we brought 11 fish into the boat. We talked to some that didnt catch
    any. We attribute alot of that good luck to long leaders of low
    test maxima. I think the trolling lines for the most part had Ande.
                         
    I realize I have slightly changed the subject - since the Maxima
    Im talking about using is leader material. By the way - Ive paid
    over $2 for a spool in someplaces. Zyla's - Merrimack $1.25 ! !
    I dont run out in NY anymore...
    

    	I use braided dacron trolling line for most of my offshore
    activity including deep water bottom fishing. *NO* stretch and it
    lasts forever. I have been using Gudebrod "Green Dot" but last year
    I experimented with a black dacron line on one of my shark rods and 
    found it to be much better. When sharks come in on the surface and 
    play around with the floats, they frequently bite off the highly 
    visible Green Dot. I haven't had as much of that occur with the 
    black stuff.
    	I prefer Ande for my lighter rigs. Trolling for blues, mackerel
    etc.                                              
    
    Paul	Cod_fishin_starts_any_time_now

     
    Heres a vote from a Michigan Steelheader for Maxima for leaders
    in the 2 to 4 ft lengths. Strongest leader material I have ever
    used. Lets you go down to light leaders without sacrificing strength.
    You need all the strength you can get with aa steely on the other
    end.
    
    Steely Dan
     

    re .25
    
    
    Paul,
      When you jig with the green dot (I thought it was spot?) do you
    use a mono leader? I like the idea of non stetch dacron but two
    things concern me. 1. The visability of the line and 2. the  dacron
    is harder to untangle compared to the much stiffer mono.
                                                                
    Bruce

    re .27
    	
    Bruce,                   
    
    	Maybe your right - green dot - green spot - whatever. Its bad when
    the memory starts to go.
    
        Yes I do use a mono leader when jigging because of the visibility 
    problem. I don't have any cookbook formula. I kind of use what feels 
    right at the time -  usually about 10' or so of whatever I have on hand.
    If I end up using the rods rigged up with Dacron for trolling etc,
    I tie on a lot of mono, essentially using the mono as the primary
    line with the Dacron as a backing.
         
    	I like the sensitivity that the no stretch line gives me when
    fishing deep. One disadvantage, other than visibility however is
    current catching water resistance. The Dacron seems to be affected
    by currents more than mono, even of the same diameter. All in all
    though I prefer the Dacron.
    
    	Paul

    	Tried the Sigma line down in the Phoenix area last weekend.
     That was the most expensive, frustrating fishing I have done in
    3 years.  That stuff was one continuous MESS.  Even when I spooled
    new line, I had problems within 1 hour of fishing it.
    	Spooled the Trilene XL.  Fished 2 days with only 1 OOPS.  So,
    I will stick with Trilene XL or XT.

    So what else happened in phx?  
    
    Did you catch any fish and were did you end up going?
    
    

    Trip details are in 617.5.
    
    Wayne

    I just bought some 50lb test sigma to use as leaders, my main lines
    are 50 lb gudebrod green dacron. I thought 30 to 50 ft leaders would
    be fine for tuna trolling, but I hope the sigma will work? What
    are some of the problems??
    
    Formally I have used Ande, and trilene and stren. with good luck
    with all from 2lb test for trout to 680 lb test for the big boys.
    
    Also J.T. works fine for macks,pollack,Blues. its anything but supple
    but its cheap so you can change it often.
    
                                                 Walt
    

   Maxima is an abortion to use other than for leaders. I agree with
    Steely Dan and Jack (the bald eagle) Hagerty on it for leaders
    though - especially for "metalheads". As a casting line its too
    kinky and seems to have a larger diameter. Just a note; the "Dai-Riki"
    leader material is rated the strongest and finest material per unit.
    BUT - one major piece of advice: IF YOU USE DAI RIKI, DON'T WET
    YOUR KNOTS TO TIGHTEN THEM"! I found out that the mfger recommends
    dry knots for this stuff, which ain't the way most of us were taught.
    I also found out after losing a nice Steelhead... Some of the "Feather
    flickers" may have tried this stuff and may have some good ideas...
    
    Knots to Y'all,
    
    --The Bandit

    re .32:
    	The problems I found with SIGMA were that the stuff would take
    a set to the reel within an hour of using it.  This makes casting
    with a reel full almost impossible and VERY AGRIVATING!!!!  After
    fishing with it for about an hour, you would need to cast it out
    and BURN it through your fingers to straighten it out.  If not,
    it would be in rats nests very quickly.  I am not sure about the
    old problem they used to have with ultra-violet light causing it
    to lose strength.  All I know is that I would rather spend time
    fishing than removing rats nests.  After I replaced the SIGMA with
    Trilene, I fished for 2 days with no rats nest problems.  Thanks
    for the suggestion of tippet leader material.  That is probably
    all that the SIGMA will be used for now.  Will work fine as a tippet
    on my Crappie jigs for the PIKE in the area.  Might lose less jigs
    with 15# test tippets on the jigs than with 6#.

     If you're really up against it and have only a spool of line like
    Sigma and no replacements, here are three suggestions that might
    bail you out:
    
    1. Bill Dance is pimping a solution/lubricant called "Tangle Free"
    which is supposed to solve this problem. Would anyone who wears
    a baseball cap for a college he probably only drove a "semi" by
    lie to us ?
    
    2. take a piece of rubber, hold it between your fingers and retrieve
    the line through it once or twice. It works on fly leaders.
    
    3. before you start fishing, tie the end of your line to a fixed
    object. run off about 40 yards of line and stretch it hard and steady
    three or four times (hold the spool, don't just use your drag).
    I know (!!) this works.
    
    In Bondage,
    
    --Jack (the Skoal Bandit) Varley--  

    
    If you do the strech method..  don't let your line hit the ground.
    
    Grass will put nicks in it!
    
    Bassin Bob

    re .35:
    	Yup, used the retrieve it through the rubber trick.  It was
    good for about an hours fishing before I had to do it again or start
    using language that is not repeatable in mixed company.  Oh well,
    just ordered the LARGE spool of TRILENE.  

    The best way to remove twists from your line is to troll 200' of line
    with nothing attched.  Go as fast as your pole/line can stand the drag.
    This will remove the twist, not just distribute them over a wider area.

    keith

    Well I tried out the 50 lb test Sigma and its every bit as bad as
    you guys say it is, Maybe a little bit worse. I rigged two trolling
    rods with Sigma leaders connected to 50 lb dacron (uh-oooo) On the
    first cast the 14oz dimond jig made record distance. too bad the
    dacron didn't go with the Sigma. So I rerigged the other rod with
    a swivle between the two lines and snelled it in.
    
    Within ten min. the Sigma had managed to get kinky and birdnest.
    
    So now I have a 500 yrd roll of line that I will use for things
    like 1)Stringing up peas, beans ect. 
         2) flying the kids kite?
         3) occational use for 2 ft mono leaders for cod and such.
    

    Since the FLYFISH node is down (for me anyway), and dir/title in
    this conference bring up this note for LINE questions, here goes..
    
    I am NEW at flyfishing. In looking at a few books and mags before
    I go spending money foolishly, I am a bit confused about the 
    BACKING to FLY LINE to LEADER to (TIPPET??) to FLY. Isn't the
    TIPPET just the smaller end of a tapered leader which ties to the
    fly?? So all I need to get started is a good tapered leader? When
    they talk about tying tippets, is that just when you're building
    your own leaders???   HHHHEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP!!!!!!!!
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    John

    A tapered leader is all you need to start with. As you tie new flies 
    on you will use up the "tip" of the leader. This will leave you with
    a differant # test than what you started with. In other words you
    start with a 2# test, after changing flies 5 times you may end up with
    4# test. Thats when you may want to tie tippit on instead of buying 
    a new leader and dealing with nail knots. I good leader is about a $1
    or more. It is also for making your own leaders.
    
    Hope it helps
    Rich

    I hope this is the appropriate note for this.
    
    I want to ask about the new Dupont line.  I am fairly sure it is
    called "Magnum Lite" or something like that.  Anyway it has two
    main selling features:
    
    		1) It is next to invisble in the clearest of water.
    
    		2) It is micro thin (i.e. 30# is about the diameter
    		   of 12 or 15# Stren)
    
    Has anyone had any experiences with this line?  
    
    I would like to hear about it as I am considering using it.
    
    BTW, the price is supposed to be comparable to Stren.
    
    Brett.

    re;-1
    
    Well, I guess it's ok to discuss buying DuPont products again since
    they stopped dumping at 106.
    
    So far I have only seen the ads...it has shown up in any shops down
    here yet.
    
    Rich
    

    I did some field test this past fall for a local whole sale place.
    I liked it. Is it called MEGA THIN?  what ever.  It is very clear
    it's diameter is about 3lbs less than rating.  
    
    I was using 10lbs and it looks like 6-8lbs.  IT was very limp and
    seemed to with stand abrasion ok.  
    
    I have used it the last two months in cold water, and it was limp.
    I am a trimax man, but it is very stiff this time of year.
    
    I will be using this new line in the spring once again for the
    advantage of having heavy line with light line qualities.  
    
    Bassin Bob
    
    p.s. it looks light but breaks as rated.  I will put it on a knote
    machine at the sport show to see how it breaks.
    

    Interesting.
    
    I've been using Stren and Tri-max for leaders.  I fish
    for salmon in water that is around 53 degrees all year.
    I use 17-20 lbs test.  The thing that I have observed is that
    Stren makes excellent leader material while tri-max gets tangled
    up a lot.  I have no idea why this is and I wondered if anyone else
    has observed it.
    
    I use trimax on my spool, but I tend to look to dupont for leaders
    now.  I was hoping to pick up some of the new (wahtever it's called)
    from dupont Friday, but it didn't come in.  Legend has it that salmon
    really pick up leaders under water and I like the idea of more invisble
    line......especially when you deal with 20 lbs test in very clear
    water.  
    
    I assume that you like trimax better than this new dupont product???
    
    Brett.
    

    .45 .... you like trimax over this other line
    
    Well I have not made a switch yet. I have not lost a fish on the
    new line yet, but have not fished it in real heavy cover, ie trees
    rocks and shore line.  All the fishing I did was deep water weed
    beds with this line.
    
    I plan on tring it in the spring when I want the thin line.  I will
    give it a try in notournament days to see how it would withstand
    spawn type cover.
    
    I would try it for leaders.  It did not seem to twist too bad.  No
    different than any other line.  It does not look as clear out of
    the water more silver color, but was clear in the water.
    This spring I will do the underwater dive test to really see how
    clear it is.
    
    Good Luck
    Bassin Bob

    I've now been using MagnuThin for my hookups for 6 months.  I talked
    a couple of friends into using it as well.  One of my friends told
    me that he loved the idea but he stopped using it a couple weeks ago
    because it kinks easily and breaks.
    
    I sort of suspected this, but decided to keep fishing it anyway.  On
    Saturday I hiooked into a really nice king.  Boy, we could see what
    a beauty it was when it came to the surface about 20 or 30 yards out.
    Then he decided to take me for a ride.  He was really peeling off line
    and the drag had light tension on.  He stopped so I started trying to buy 
    back some line on him.  After about ten cranks, the line went limp.
    
    I surely didn't have too much pressure on him, but I did have his head up 
    firmly.   Since we fish barbless, I thought he must have thrown the hook.
    I reeled in and was so pi$$ed at what I saw......the sinker was there and
    all of the leader on my hook up was there but both hooks were gone.  The
    line curled at the end clearly indicating that it broke right in the
    middle of the knot.  My freind had predicted that any fish with good
    size and strength would break this stuff at the knot.  I didn't want
    to believe him at the time, but I came straight home on saturday and cut 
    all of the line off of my hookups and retied them with stren.
    
    This isn't just one case of dissatisfaction with the line, this is the straw
    that broke the camel's back.  You can deform it with light pressure with 
    your  thumbnail and it does kink very easily.
    
    My recommendation would be to steer clear of MagnaThin.  While it is
    wonderful at disappearing in water and being very thin, I don't think that 
    it's up to the challenge.
    
    fwiw,
    
    /brett

    Les, are you still using Excel?  Anyone else out there try it?
    
    donmac

    Don,
         Yup, I still use it regularly, 12 lb. on my baitcaster and
    6-8 on my spinning outfits.  Now you got to remember this I dont
    have any long term history with this line cause I change it often.
    But when I put it on it works better then the stren that I was using
    in the past,  But someone told me it was STREN.  Also I became a
    regular user of TANGLE FREE, this seems to keep the lin from taking 
    a set.  Once I left my rod in the truck at work and it must of been
    120 degrees in there when I got out, not to good for line. Anyways
    I casted a few out on my way home (I pass about 10 ponds everyday
    and just cant resist) and notices a real nice spiral on the line
    I applied some tangle free and a few minutes later the set was gone.
    So that one time convinced me to keep using it.
         But Back to the EXCEL.  I heard the there are only 2 U.S.
    manufactures of fishing line, Dupont and Triline, so off brands are
    either there seconds or contracts from them.  Bottom line is if
    you dont like the line send it back for a complete refund and BPS
    will even pick up the postage.  With the rate I change line and
    the cost and quality of EXCEL I think I will continue to use it.
    
    Les
        
    

    Hey Les, what is this TANGLE FREE that you apply to your line?
    Sounds like something I can waste my money on!! How do you apply
    it and where can you get some?
    
    Bass-O-Matic
    

    More on Magnathin:
    
    I've been using 4 lb MT on an ultralight rig.  The stuff is so thin
    it feels like regular 2 lb test.  It is by far the most castable
    line I've used -- in fact, it gives you so much extra range that
    I kept throwing high and ending up in trees/brush the first couple
    of trips.  It seems to make the dreaded "spinning reel loop tangles"
    more easily than other lines.  It also seems more fragile than other
    lines (easy to kink and nick).
    
    So... I've got strongly mixed feelings.  GREAT casting, but has
    problems.

    Just like Ray says in the previous note.  Its a small bottle for
    5 bucks I have had the same bottle for 2 years now, just add 2-3
    drops per spool, My bottle is still 3/4 filled.  Its great for bait
    casters.

     I gotta agree with Lester the "Freedom Fighter". Excel is about
    as good as anything I've used, except for "Silver Thread", and I
    only use that for serious Steelheadin' in extreme weather.
    
    --The Skoal Bandit (A semi-convert to fly roddin' for bass...).

    I am now using Excel, since I bought a couple of reels to make the
    shipping cost of an order to BPS more reasonable (what rationale
    for buying more stuff!) Anyhow, I like it a lot, it's limp and very
    castable,and does seem to hold up well too. The only thing is that
    I wish I had bought clear instead of flourescent blue, 'cause I
    read in a fishing book (and they're always right, aren't they?)
    that bright line tends to spook smallies) Otherwise I like the line
    a lot. The only other line I've used is Damyl Tectan, from Germany
    - 8lb test is as thin as most 6lb, and it performs well, and is
    nearly invisible... more expensive, though.
    
    Ed

    I have been using Stren Blue florescent for years and now that I got a
    new reel for Christmas decided I would try the Berkley Trimax.  I
    already decided to to that however I am wondering if anyone has used
    the new Trimax Photochomic line?  Is this work a spool/
    
    Brian

    I sent in offer to 'field test' Trimax last year and got a few spools.
    I also picked up a few promotional spools at the Granite State Open
    last year.  All were 14lb test.  I liked the line, it worked fine.
    
    But when it came to ordering this years supply of bulk spools 
    of 6, 8 and 12lb test, I stuck with the old standby, Trilene XL - 
    although this year I switched to low-vis green rather than the clear 
    that I have been using.
    
    I'll probably keep using the 14lb Trimax on one of my heavier rods 
    untill I use up the little I have left, but when it's gone I'll just 
    stick with 12lb XL as my standard baitcaster line. 
    
    I use 8lb & 6lb on my spinning rods.
    
    I was going to go with BPS' Excel this year but I just couldn't get
    myself to do it 8^).
    
    donmac - if it's not broke - don't fix it!

     I really like the Tri-Max "lo viz" green too! I've used BPRO "EXCEL"
    quite a bit, and it's real good too - especially for the money.
    I like it well enough to buy it, even if it cost as much as other
    top grade lines. To me, it performs just as well. I also like the
    black label Bagley's "Silver Thread" - especially for drift fishing
    for steelhead. It's incredibly strong and sensitive (very little
    stretch); in fact, it's probably the best line of all of 'em!
    
    --The Skoal Bandit (who WILL!! meet coonass at the Centrum this
    year).

    Hey guys 
    
    Has anyone tried the photochomic line yet?
    
    I put a note in .56 and didn't really get a response.  I guess I'll buy
    one filler roll and try it out.  At the fishing show the guy explained
    that this stuff has great visability out of water and is invisible in
    the water.  What the heck I guess its worth one spool.
    
    

    A few basic line questions from still-a-beginner-after-only-2�-summers:
    
    Will line deteriorate from just being on the spool? I had a spool of 
    8lb Damyl Tectan, a thin, strong, greenish line made in Germany and
    bought thru Cabela's. I used the same line for 2 summers, just trimming
    it once in a while when changing lures (or if it broke) but last
    September I was out fishing and lost several jigs, etc from line
    breakage, and the last straw came when I lost my favorite spinnerbait, 
    when the line just broke at the reel and the whole mess just sunk off
    the side of the Crawdad. It occurred to me at that time that maybe the
    line had become brittle after all that time on the reel and that I
    should have changed the whole thing way before that.
    
    The basic question is: how often should one change the line even if
    it just sits there?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ed
    
    

 I change my line about once a year, depending on how much I've fished with
it, how much sun the line has seen, etc. This month's Saltwater Sportsman
has a decent article about fishing line- how to choose, store, etc.

 If you have only one or two rods and you fish fairly often, changing the line
at the beginning of the season and taking precautions should be a fairly
inexpensive and rewarding way to make sure your line is in top shape when
old bucketmouth decides it's time to eat and your lure is the main course.

 The Doctah

Ed:

While in Florida, I'll probably change at least every day.  The longer it sits
on the spool, the better "line memory" is imposed.  Tangle Free (tm) will help
this a little, but if I'm going to spend the time and $$$ fishing for Florida
bass, I definitely don't want to lose a trophy.  Around here, I change it every
other or third trip.  It depends on how long I spend fishing and what bait I'm
working.  Top water baits keep the line from getting knicked on rocks, but
jig-n-pig in the rocks will scuff the line more.


Tim

    	Due to the fact that I tend to use HEAVY abrasion resistance type
    lines because of fishing a lot of rocks and heavy moss, I change line
    about every second trip.  The line memory set for this type line is
    HEAVY.  So, that is MY largest concern.  If I don't change line this
    often, I end up with "PROFESSIONAL OVER-RUN" problems that are
    TERRIBLE!!!
    	As for LIGHT LINE, I will NOT use line that is more than one year
    old.  Even if the line has been stored out of the light, etc. and been
    taken care of, the aging of the mono itself tends to cause it to start
    checking on the outside.  This causes reduced casting distance and BAD
    breaking problems.  Anyway, LINE IS CHEAP!!!!  Besides, what is the
    MAJOR factor between YOU and the FISH????  LINE????  RIGHT.  (At least,
    that's what I tell the wife when I order those 1000 yard spools of
    Trilene XT.) :-)  So, if it is older than one year, PITCH IT in the
    TRASH CAN, not the LAKE.
    	If you don't believe the exterior checking of the line after about
    a year on the spool, peel off line till you are about half way down on
    the spool.  then CAREFULLY pull the line back and forth between your
    lips.  Feel rough????  BAD LINE!!!!  Change ALL the line on that spool.
    	When fishing tournaments, I will change the whole spool of line
    weekly and the end (casting length) daily.  When fishing for Northerns,
    I tend to change the line after each trip since I tend to be fishing
    heavy cover garbage.  Not worth it to me to lose lures and fish for the
    few cents worth of line on the reel.  (BUT, then I'm CHEAP, too.)

    During the winter I'll strip the line when I clean my reels.  Right
    before these start of the season I'll load up.  I change lures and retie 
    often.  Each time I retie I take off a few feet of line which causes me 
    to use alot of line.  When I get about 1/3-1/2 way into the spool I'll 
    pull off a buch and then add more line using what's left on the spool 
    as backing.   This works well on baitcasters but spinning reels retain
    alot more memory so I'll do a total restring more often.
    
    donmac 

	I have always been a Dacron fan but of late I am tending to use 
more mono. My approach to line changing is heavily influenced by economics. 
My relatively light stuff gets changed each season but because of the cost 
I will test my 100# line and remove the worn stuff as required. I hope to get 
a couple seasons out of it before it has to be replaced. 
Sea Ya,
Paul

I usually replace my line every 3-5 times out, more often as needed.  I 
ALWAYS replace line before a tourney.  I agree that it can get expensive, 
but there's a couple of things you can do to help minimize the cost.  First, 
try to buy the larger, bulk spools of line (i.e 1000 yd or 3000yd).  In the 
long run, they are much cheaper than many filler spools.  Second, rather 
than stripping off all the line of your spools, just replace the top 30-50 
yards of line and tie the new line on with a blood knot.  Using this 
technique, I can make a 250yd filler spool last for 4-5 refills. 

-HSJ-

Please Ole Man Weather
   make it hotter,
So I can fish
   on some open water!

    Ok. I'm sold on the importance of keeping your line fairly fresh, but I
    have a couple more questions...
    
    Wayne says that if the line is over a year old, it should be thrown
    out. Does that include the remainder of the filler spool that I keep 
    in the drawer in the basement? I bought a couple spools of BP Excel
    last year, and I'm not anywhere near the end of either one of them.
    
    Also, as far as just replacing 30-50 yards of line at a time, how do
    you decide when to replace the whole thing? (yearly?) Also, why not
    spool up with cheaper line except for the last 50 yards, then tie on
    the good stuff? Too much trouble?
    
    A side question: I now have two spinning rod and reel combos and a
    baitcaster. One spinning rod is 7' med action with a Shimano reel, fine
    for most fishing, but a bit wimpy for worming. The other is a 6' heavy
    action rod w. an Abu Garcia Ultracast (to cast into John Easter's
    livewell from across Winnipesaukee). I have spare spools for each. Now
    for the main question: What would you guys suggest I put on each of
    these spools to have a good variety for most situations? I was thinking
    about 4lb test for trout fishing, one spool of 8lb flourescent for top
    water, 10lb clear (or green) for worming and cranking, and 14lb or
    heavier for fishing around obstacles and cover like tree stumps, etc.
    
    The baitcaster already has 14lb test, and I think I'll just keep it
    that way.
    
    Thanks for the input.
    
    Ed

    
>    Also, as far as just replacing 30-50 yards of line at a time, how do
>    you decide when to replace the whole thing? (yearly?) Also, why not
>    spool up with cheaper line except for the last 50 yards, then tie on
>    the good stuff? Too much trouble?

In fact, that's what I do.  I use either old cheap line as filler or just 
leave the same stuff I had on my reel, year-after-year, and replace only the 
top 30-50 yards.  I don't care about line memory on the old stuff as I never 
get down to it.  Replacing the top line every few times out generally 
doesn't give it much time to gain memory.

    
>    for the main question: What would you guys suggest I put on each of
>    these spools to have a good variety for most situations? I was thinking
>    about 4lb test for trout fishing, one spool of 8lb flourescent for top
>    water, 10lb clear (or green) for worming and cranking, and 14lb or
>    heavier for fishing around obstacles and cover like tree stumps, etc.
    
I usually carry five rod/reel combos with me; each reel has a spare spool.  
The line you use is totally dependent upon the type of fishing you do and 
the type of areas and structure you fish.  In my case, my worming rod and 
topwater rod generally have either 10-12# test on them and 17-20# test on 
the spare spools for fishing heavy structure (stumps, logs, pads, etc.)  The 
rods that I use for deeper fishing with crankbaits or grubs are set up with 
6-10# test line depending upon water depth, clarity and spookiness of the 
fish.

I guess a lot depends on where you fish.  My preference is to fish with line 
as light as I can without loosing fish.  Of course, a quality reel with a 
good drag system and knowing how to use and set the drag properly helps a 
lot.

-HSJ-

    I have replaced old mono line by dacron as filler. It lasts forever
    (almost) and it does not shrink like mono. Good precaution against
    spool deformation! I then fill up with 70 - 100 meters of line and
    depending of usage replace it twice or three times a year.
    
    For spinning reels I use 4 - 10 lbs lines and for baitcasters 8
    - 12 lbs. 
    
    Eki
    
    Ps. The #*%&� snow keeps falling down, how I miss the spring!
    
    

    
    	The ONE question I always ask myself about leaving old line on as
    backing, "DO I EVER PLAN ON GETTING SPOOLED INTO THE BACKING OR WITHIN
    ONE LAYER OF THE BACKING????"  If "NO", use whatever you want.  If
    "YES", once a year, change it or use Dacron backing.  (With little Mr.
    Toothies in the 30# category in my favorite lake, I tend to go all the
    way most of the time.  BUT, I'm CHEAP when it comes to losing $3.00+
    lures which is why I use 12" of 30# braided steel as a tippet ANYTIME I
    fish that lake.)  :-)  So, if you don't plan on getting taken into the
    backing, only change the top section.  If you plan on hoggin' it with
    light line, change all of the line.
    	As for WHEN to change or whether the line you have stored in the
    basement is good, strip off a little from the spool.  Bend it fairly
    sharply.  Does it hold the set/kink more than you think it should?  If
    "YES", don't use it on a spinning rod unless you spool up in the
    morning and only plan on leaving it on for one or two days.  If no kink
    (line set) problem, strip off about 3 feet of line from the spool. 
    Just kind of wad it up and stretch, etc. for a few seconds.  Then, run
    the wadded section through your lips (WITH LIGHT LIP PRESSURE).  (NO
    WISECRACKS HERE, PLEASE!! :-)  )  Is the outside of the line rough?  If
    "YES", trash the line and buy new line.  If "NO", use the DEVIL out of
    it.  (P.S. If you clamp down too hard on the line or move it too
    quickly between your lips and it is BAD or frays from light abuse, you
    will have some VERY SORE LIPS for a week.  So, be careful.)
    	Like they say in the commercials on T.V., the MAIN thing between
    you and the fish is your line.  WHY chance it?
    	As for line weight, that depends on What, Where, and When I am
    fishing.  Trout on the spinning/fly rods, I use lighter than 6# test. 
    Bass, Crankers in clear water, 6-10#.  Baitcaster, 12# Trilene XT
    almost exclusively.  (I grew up on light line trout fishing and OLD
    habits are hard to break.)  I seldom spool a spinning rig with heavier
    than 10# test line.  If I need heavier line than that, I go to the
    baitcaster so that I have the better drag.  (PERSONAL PREFERENCE
    HERE!!!)  Also, how else can I convince the wife that I need those 1000
    yard spools of Trilene XT unless I change line that often????  :-)

    I trim off the  first couple  of feet of  line every time  I change
lures or hooks.

    I replace the first 100 feet  of line every three or four times out
and all the line every couple  o' years. I prefer, after trying Trilene
and Maxima, Stren.

    I found Trilene to be to 'soft' to work  a swivel snap thus putting
an excessive amount of twist in the line when spin-casting or trolling.
    Maxima (Chameleon) is a fine line.  I just can't see the $#!^

    I buy  bulk spools  (4# and 8# Stren - 2400  Yard)  and they last a
couple of years.  I've never  had a problem  with storing line for that
length of time.

    When I re-spool 100% I use 'cheep' 10# for filler.

    I don't leave the  filler on the spool more  than a couple of years
as it cuts into  itself where the windings  overlay each other.


          KEEP ALL LINES OUT OF PROLONGED DIRECT SUN LIGHT!


                          Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
                                                Meets the Westfield
                                                   By the Westfield
                                                      In Huntington (MA)

    What is the benefit of using hi visibility line?
    
    	Steve

    I use a high-vis (Stren gold) line for low light situations - quite
often I'm 'out for trout' long b-4 sunrise.

    I use a mid-vis (Stren florescent/clear) for lakes and ponds (still
water).

    I don't use low-vis (Maxima Camelion) lines because I can't see them!
                                                        -

                             Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
                                                   Meets the Westfield
                                                      By the Westfield
                                                         In Huntington (MA)
 

    re:-1
    
    Thanks. I guess fishing at night for bass in a pond/lake would probably
    require hi-vis line also. Or is it too dark to make a difference?
    
    Steve
    

>>    Thanks. I guess fishing at night for bass in a pond/lake would probably
>>    require hi-vis line also. Or is it too dark to make a difference?

Typically, yes... it is too dark to see even hi-vis line.  That's where using 
those flourescent black lights come into play.  They will make your line 
glow like 1/2" rope which makes it real easy to see light taps of your line.

BUT...I seem to recall that they also use black lights in bug zappers to 
attract all those little pesky criters!

No thanks...I'll just make it a practice to keep the line tight and develop 
a more keen sense of touch.

-HSJ- (when's the stiff water gonna be unstiff?)    

    .-1 is right except with any moon light at all - if I hold the gold
REEL CLOSE to my face - I can (almost) see it well enough to tie a knot
(square knot or sheep-shank!).


j_w_f_w_t_w_m_t_w_b_t_w_i_h_(m)

    What do folks use to actually change their lines.  I can't seem to get
    a good consistent tension when I use the have a partner ram a pencil
    through the spool and wind it in technique.  I see a couple of
    varieties of line winders in the BPO are any of them better than the
    other. Some attach to the rod, some are table mounts, some have line
    twisters etc.  I also want to know how close you come to filling a
    spool.  In other words if a reel rates 12 lb at 140 yards what do you
    fill to 130?  I have always just done it by sight but wondered if I was
    underfilling the spool.

    On one of the legs of my workbench in the basement I have nails which 
    hold various sizes of bulk spools.  When I'm loading a reel I run the 
    line thru 1/2 the eyes and hang a towel over the rod.  This puts a small
    amount of tension on the line and cleans the dust off the line as its
    fed in.  As far as how much line, the first few times I'll fill it 
    right up, soon you'll learn how much is just right for the reel.
    Spinning reels appear to be more sensitive to the amount of line, as
    compared to baitcasters. 
    
    donmac

>    What do folks use to actually change their lines.  I can't seem to get
>    a good consistent tension when I use the have a partner ram a pencil

    To strip off the old line (partial or complete) I clamp a good sized
nail into my electric drill, drop the reel spool into a bucket, start the
line winding onto the nail by hand and then LET 'ER RIP! I pinch the line
lightly and guide it onto the nail in a semi level fashion. The only caution
here is to be mindful, when stripping all the line off the spool, of when
you're reaching the end of your rope (so to speak). With light test lines
- up to 8# test - I keep my hand down in the bucket when I'm reaching the
end and when the line (knotted to the spool), runs out the spool 'jumps up'
to my hand and, because I know it's coming and am prepared for it, the spool
hits my hand (fingers), the line breaks from the shock and there I am! My
drill is a variable speed (reversible) so, on heavier lines, when I'm getting
to the end of the line I slow down so that when the end is reached I can
stop in time to cut the knot.

               Un-chuck and chuck the nail - nice and neat!

    To spool up new line (partial or complete) I clamp a small length of
wooden dowel - sanded down to be a VERY SNUG fit into the spool - into my
drill and press the spool onto it. I place another piece of dowel into my
workbench vice and place the bulk spool over that - knot the line onto the
spool (or tag end of existing line for partial replacements) - insure that
the drill (a Variable speed reversible) is spinning in the proper dir-
ection (most reels - open faced spinning that is - spool in the "F"orward
direction) - and then LET 'ER RIP - AT A MODERATE TO SLOW SPEED - using my
fingers to provide GOOD tension and to guide the line onto the spool in as
level a fashion as possible.

    Some important considerations while doing this are;

         - use the best fitting dowel you can get for the bulk spool as a
           loose fit allows it to wobble and can screw up the tension on
           the line. I'm just as inclined to drop the bulk spool into the
           same bucket I use for stripping and just insure that it is
           rolling around (as apposed to "standing up") - to feed off line
           without any twist.

         - make damned sure the reel spool is square on the drill as any
           wobble here will cause the line to load up in a less than
           circular fashion.

         - make sure there's enough (ie:quite a bit of) tension on the
           line to prevent the slop that occurs when line is compressed
           under successive wraps

>    twisters etc.  I also want to know how close you come to filling a
>    spool.  In other words if a reel rates 12 lb at 140 yards what do you

    I fish open faced spinning reels and fill the spools to within 1/4 to
1/8 of the rim. Contrary to -.1 I would not recommend filling the spool 100%
as this can, with open faced reels, cause the reel to consistently throw a
'birds nest' when casting. An under filled reel will not cast as well as
it is capable of as there is an increase in drag from the line clearing the
lip of the spool however, as in -.1, practice makes perfect.
    There is a point on the outer rim of all open faced spools where the
surface starts to 'roll over' for the beginning of the rounded lip; a good
rule of thumb is to fill the spool just to, or slightly over, the point
where this roll begins.
    I also load the line onto the spool so that it is slightly shallower in
the center of the spool than it is at the extremes - like the liquid in
a test tube or glass cylinder will be higher around the edge than in the
center - kind of a real mild "C" shape. This is my preference to 'dead
flat' but I'm sure it's better than the opposite extreme - a bulge to
center. To a great degree the individual reel will 'adjust' the lay of
the line after several dozen casts.

				Take a breath Joe!

                             Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
                                                   Meets the Westfield
                                                      By the Westfield
                                                         In Huntington (MA)

    FYI
    
    I went out and bought a "Line -In-Reeler", Line Winder.  This little
    unit has suction cups that mount it on a table.  It has a long spindle
    that you can mount up to a 2000 yard spool.  It feeds the line from the
    spool through an adjustable tension devise and onto your rod and reel. 
    It cost me $11 at hermans.
    
    The thing works like a champ and the reel comes out nice an uniform. 
    One hint though be sure to leave the rubber band around the middle of
    the filler spool.  If you don't the line (espcially the heavier line
    12, 14 etc) will roll off the spool ahead of itself and get tangled
    around the spindle.
    
    the Bassassin

    Re: .80
    Leaving rubber band on the spool? Never thought of that. Great idea.
    Thought it was going to drive me nuts
    	Thanks
    		Lavender Jack

    Has anyone tried the new lunkerline from fenwick.  
    
    Brian

    All these notes on line assume you know what strength line you need.
    As a novice, I'd like a cogent explanation of how one picks a
    particular strength line.   I've seen nit-picking over whether 8# or
    12# test should be used for a particular application.  To my simple
    mind why wouldn't you always use the bigger one?   And what is the
    number for anyway?  8# test line takes a lot more than an 8# pull to
    break.    Do small fish really say "I'm not going to take that
    otherwise delicious bait 'cause it's hanging on 30# test?"
    
    Do you guys know how hard it is to find a "Fishing Basics" book that
    explains all this stuff?   This file is great!
    

    The simple reason for so many line sizes, colors or materials is to
    suit the type of fishing your after.
    
    the larger the line the less sensitivity and distance you can toss it.
    
    You use a 20#+ test for bulling big largemouths out of weedbeds or in
    real thick junk.  Odds are in this case your pitching into pockets in
    the soup and don't need long accurate casts.  What you want is
    something that can pull the old 10lb after its wrapped itself up in
    lily pads so tensile strength is critical
    
    In stream or clear water fishing for say brook trout you'll want to use
    ultra light tackle to feel those light taps.  using 2-4# test is more
    than sufficient. You want less visiable line that can spook the wily
    devils.
    
    Lots of arguments exist on whether bass can see line or not for me the
    jurys still out although I always go for ultra clear types.
    
    Again I believe its in the type of presentation your after that
    determines the line type as well as the terrain your fishing in.
    
    As far as the poundage goes your right it takes more pressure to break
    a line than the poundage reads, however we are talking about straight
    line, don't forget that knots put stress on the line that cause it to
    break at 5-15% the recommended range.  Also anytime you set your drag
    generally use about 40% of the line weight as a saftey measure.  I
    guess the line weight is the safe amount of stress the line can take
    consistently.  Remember as you fish the line is constantly being
    stretched and relaxed the entire time so you need a built in saftey
    margin.
    
    An yes I believe a brook trout would turn tail if a piece of bait came
    down attached to 30# test.
    
    The final analysis is as you can see, lines colors and types are really
    suited for special types of fishing and also caters to our well known
    propensity to spend money on anything that will get more fish.
    
    This of course is IMHO
    
    Brian

>    As a novice, I'd like a cogent explanation of how one picks a
>    particular strength line.

 In general, you want to use the smallest diameter line that you can get away
with without breaking too many fish off. Reason: the larger the line, the more
likely that the fish will see it and the more likely they will reject your
bait. This is especially true of fish that see heavy fishing pressure! Another
reason to use a smaller diameter line is to increase cast distance.

 For most freshwater general applications, 8lb test is a good compromise 
between line strength and diameter. If you are going to do some bassin'
in heavy cover, you will have to go heavier, perhaps to 14-17 lb test. Many of
the new spinning reels come with an extra spool; I have one loaded with 8lb test
and one with 12 lb test. It comes in handy having the ability to switch to
a heavier line when conditions favor it.

>And what is the number for anyway?

 There are two categories of line: test line and class line.

 Most line is "test line." When you see 8 lb test, that means that the absolute
minimum rated breaking strength of the line is 8lbs but is usually much more
than that. The number here is mostly related to the traditional diameter of 
line rated at that test, not the actual breaking strength of the line in 
question.

 Class line is used in the pursuit of world records and in some saltwater
tounaments. When you buy class line, the breaking strength is AT MOST the
rated number. In other words, you are guaranteed to have line that will break
by 8 lbs of pressure when you buy 8 lb class line. This is so you will be
able to get line class records. It is more tightly controlled (in terms of
breaking strength) than test line, because you want to have 8 lb class line
break as close to 8 lbs as possible without going over.

 Any more questions?

 The Doctah

    Jim, volumes could be written here on why we use different line , but 
    I'll try to give you some basics. First the basic analogy that works
    for me is comparing lines to golf clubs. You use different clubs due
    to certain conditions, sandtraps, putting, driving, in the ruff etc'.
    Lines follow similar suits. If you are fishing in New England fishing
    for trout you will want to fish with line in the 6# range + or - 2-4#
    But if your fishing in the great lakes you more than likely will use 
    a lot heavier line due to the size of fish available. The same
    principal applies to Bass in New England vs Florida.
    
    Lines have different characteritics some are limp some are tough (more
    abrasive resistance) ex. Trilene XL (soft) or XT (tough) . Some stretch 
    more than others. When I fish for Bass I like to use a line that is 
    abrasive resistance because of the conditions I would use it ( casting
    toward and into rocks bushes stumps weeds pads etc.) I usally use 10#
    test for this purpose because that's what I feel comfortable with.
    Other people will be around this #test by 2-4# difference +or-. If I'm
    fishing for Smallmouth Bass in a clear water lake I will drop down to 
    8# test in a clear line so that it is less visible to the fish and the
    lighter line allows the smaller baits used to perform better on the
    presentation. I did fail to mention that the line I use in 10# test is
    a utralucient this gives me good visibility and less visibility to the 
    fish under the water. Line visibility is important if you fish rubber
    worms and low light conditions. When I pull out my flipping rod I have
    that spooled with 17# test due to the areas I would flip to.
    I hope this gives you a basic idea why all the conversation goes on
    about line. Like golf clubs line brands can be very subjective but it 
    is still dictated by conditions and the fish you are after. The only
    recommendation I can make is that to purchase a name brand and not pay
    $3.00 for 1000 yd spool you are only askiny for trouble. The other
    thing I am assuming is that you are using a spinning reel or a
    spin/cast. If you get in to baitcasters than the picture changes a
    little because of reel types using certain minimum #test. 
    
    Here is a guideline to get you started.      
    
    Trout           4-8# test
    
    Bass largemouth 8-12# test
    
         Smallmouth 6-10# test
    
    Crappie         4-8# test
    
    Pickeral        6-10# test
    
It won't hurt to reread some of the previous notes on lines to get other 
inputs and recommendations.

    How about some saltwater guidelines for near-shore fishing (blues,
    flounder, what else?)   (NOT tuna, wahoo, moby dick, etc).
    
    I got a deal on a med action Penn rod w/209 reel and put 20# test on it
    'cause I didn't know any better.

    20 lb line on that outfit sounds ok. You could use it for trolling or
    bait fishing for blues. It's a little heavy for flounder, but you could
    get away with it. That outfit would also work fishing for tautog. You
    could also use it for scup and sea bass, even though it's a tad heavy.
    It's also a good rig for cod fishing.
    
    When I go party boat fishing for bottom fish I use a similar rig and
    have done well. I think you need the extra weight line on a party boat
    because it stands up better to tangles and chafing against the bottom
    of the boat which happens on occasion. If you are fishing from a
    private boat with fewer passengers, you can use lighter line.
    
    The best fun of all, though, is fishing for blues with a lightweight
    spinning outfit. That is, a rig balanced for 10 or 12 lb line. I like
    to throw out popping plugs, watch the choppers attack it and then hold
    on for a fun battle. It takes around 5-15 minutes to bring in a blue on
    that tackle.
    
    Hope this info helps. Have fun!
    
    Art
    

Bluefishing is the most fun on #17 lb test.  Much less and you'll break off a
lot.  #17 is strong enough to hold most blues and light enough to make it
fun.

One point nobody brought up in the past 10 notes is that ultra-light gear tends
to cause more injury to the fish.  If you play a fish for a long time, they will
get lactic acid build up (anaerobic bacterial waste, which is what makes your
legs burn after climbing long flights of stairs) in the muscle tissue and could
easily die.  I try to use a line which allows good control of the fish so as to
not tire them out too much.

P.S.  I've been known to catch blues on poppers with a medium action bass rod
and 8# line, but only if I plan to keep them for dinner.

    Blues on spinning tackle taken from a boat 16-20lb is good for sport
    type fishing. 8lb is great for ultra light but will take you about
    15 minutes to land a 12-15 blue. 30lb test for blues from trolling
    gear is right for meat fishing. 
    
    Cod are best caught on 30-50lb line becasue of the size of the jigs,
    water depth 40-300ft and the size of the fish (up to 60lbs is not
    uncommon).
    
    Mackeral are best caught on 6-8lb spinning geart but the 16-20lb
    gear is better for fishing with xmas (mackeral) trees and catching
    3-4 at once.
    
    Tautog require stout gear. 20lb class is good, same more or less
    for flounder and fluke and scup.
    
    Bruce

    OK, I'm missing something here.  Why is it harder to fight/land a fish
    on light line?  Assuming the line doesn't break, what possible
    difference could the line strength make once the fish is hooked?
    
    Or, as a friend has suggested, am I confusing the technical issues
    with the "sport" issues?  I.e., you're supposed to fight the fish in
    a skillful enough manner that the line doesn't break?  So the "game"
    is to see how light a line you can catch a an X lb fish on?
    
    If true, that would explain a lot.  I still don't see j random fish
    noticing small differences in line (like 8# vs 12#).
    

    Jim
    
    I am not sure if I am missing something, but the entire jist around
    line strength is breakage.  You use heavier line when the object is to
    pull brutes out of bad stuff.  I always use at least 17lbs in the heavy
    lily pad/weed beds because I don't want the bass to wrap around a bunch
    of junk and have the line part.  Your friends right, the art of using
    light line is to skillfully pull that same brute out using lighter line
    where the fish has a sporting chance of parting your line.  But me, I
    go out to catch a wall mount every time and its hard enough finding the
    critters, enticing them with the right lure, detecting that first tick
    and nailing them to have them part my line.  Nope for me I like to land
    them once I hook em.
    
    Brian

    Breakage, and drag setting.  If you have the drag set properly for the
    line being used then when the larger fish take the bait they're able to 
    run with it, and it that's where the sport/fight comes in.  They peel
    off line while running "away" and you try to get them to come "back"
    so you can reel it in.  This way you won't break as much line, either
    (but you stand the chance of having it all stripped off the reel...).

    -- Sam

    Okay, lets just wait a minute here. What's the weight of a fish in
    water?????????
    Next....Just how much weight can your rod and reel lift????? I have won
    a lot of money on this one so be careful. 
    
    The basic idea is to use as light a line as the "conditions" permit.
    Clear line is for the most part better than colored line. Be careful to
    use as high a rated knot (percentage of line strength) as you can.
    
    Most people use to heavy a line in the belief that they will loose fish
    if they don't. Of course no one in this file does that.....:^) 
    
    Tight lines, Rnager Ron

>Why is it harder to fight/land a fish
>    on light line?  Assuming the line doesn't break, what possible
>    difference could the line strength make once the fish is hooked?

 It depends on the type of fishing you are doing, and where you are doing it.

 You may hook a bass in deep, clear water with no obstructions on 2 lb test and
have a fair chance of landing it; but you won't be able to do that in an area 
where there is alot of structure around which a fish can wrap your line and 
break it. Tautog are relatively small fish, yet they require stout tackle
because they are able to get into crevasses after hitting your bait so it is
vital to get them off the bottom immediately. Thus more drag is required, 
meaning a stronger line to withstand the pressure.

 Your "assuming the line doesn't break" is a whale of an assumption. :-)

 The Doctah

Don't forget to use as light a line as possible when trolling.  Otherwise,
the drag from the higher-diameter (heavier) line will cause you 1/(1000*line
diameter) MPH...     :-)


Tim

    I don't think it's as much a matter of the weight of a fish in the
    water as it is how much stress the fish can put on your line. I had a
    fair sized smallmouth (maybe 4 or 5 lb) snap 8lb test line when I
    stupidly tried to lift him from the water with the line. As soon as he
    was most of the way out of the water he shook his head and broke the
    line like thread... boo hoo! I won't make that mistake again!
    
    Ed
    

    	The question of line is a continuous one.  Growing up on trout and
    flyfishing, I consider anything over 4 pound test to be halter rope. 
    That stated, I usually fish 2 weights of line.  Trout and panfish, 4-6
    pound test.  Bass and toothy critters, 12 pound test Trilene XT.  That
    stated, my rule of thumb is, "What is the MAXIMUM weight of the fish I
    am trying to catch?????  That is the line weight to use.  If there is a
    LOT of moss, weeds, or snags, go up 2-4 pounds in line weight."

    	Second thing, line break strength is rated WET.  The line will
    break at a level of 20% less WHEN WET than when dry.  So, try the break
    strength test under water and it will be less than on dry land.  If I
    can't tie a knot that will give me 90% of my line test for break
    strength, I will look for another knot.  So, with this stated, a 4
    pound test line will break ABOVE 4 pounds of direct pull.  Typically, a
    4 pound TEST line will break at 4.8-5 pounds of WET pull.  The CLASS
    lines will break at LESS than the rated strength or around 3.6-3.8
    pounds for 4 pound CLASS.

    	As for color, I use TWO TYPES, CLEAR AND GREEN!!!!  WHY, my SCOTCH
    heritage shows here.  (I'm CHEAP!!!!!)  :-)  

    	Lifting fish by the line is a dangerous act ANY TIME.  Many
    reasons:  1) If there are ANY nicks in the line, fish is GONE!; 2) The
    added stretch to the line lowers the shock factor of the line and
    lowers the break strength.; 3) If you grab the line with your hand, you
    actually create a pressure point in the line which creates the same
    effect as a nick.; 4) The added pressure on the fish's mouth can
    enlarge the hook hole, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the barb
    if the fish flips.; . . . . .  If you are SERIOUS about keeping the
    fish or landing it, either lip the fish or net it.  If netting a fish
    that you intend to release, ALWAYS WET THE NET BEFORE NETTING THE
    FISH!!  This tends to remove less of the protective coating.  Also, if
    you intend to handle the body of the fish, WET YOUR HAND FIRST.  Same
    reason.

    	If you want to be more sporting and aren't cheap like me, then step
    down in line size for any given size of fish.  However, there is ONE
    MAJOR DISADVANTAGE to this.  You tend to have to play the fish longer
    to land it.  This leads to a higher concentration of lactic acid
    build-up in the fish's muscles.  Too high a concentration of acid will
    KILL the fish.  So, don't go too light on the line and play the fish to
    total exhaustion if you plan to release it. 

    	Most of all, how much fun per fish do you want?  LOTS, use light
    line and give the fish the advantage.  Medium, use a rated line
    strength near the weight of the largest fish you hope to catch.  NONE,
    use halter rope.  Disadvantage of halter rope is scaring wary fish in
    clear, calm water.  So, you will hook more fish and lose more equipment
    with light line.  Opposite for heavy line.  Therefore, I tend to stay
    with 2 average weights of line.  That way, I KNOW what is spooled on
    EACH reel.  I also only have to buy one 1000 yd. spool of each line
    type per year.  :-)

    Right Wayne, that's exactly what I was going to say!
    
    Ed
    

    Does anyone have trouble hooksetting with Magnathin?  I think that line
    has too much stretch. I switched back to TriMax and my brother still
    uses magnathin.  I watched him set a hook on a big bass about 50 feet
    from the boat.  He reared up twice with solid sets and yet the bass got
    off close to the boat.  He tends to have a lot get off and I think that
    its the magnathin is allowing to much line stretch and therefore
    prevent a solid hookset.  Anyone else use or used to use magnathin?
    
    Brian
    
    PS  I tried the dupont 7/20 this year.  It is ok but it still feels
    like rope, it had good castability, but I still prefer the TriMax