Conference wahoo::fishing

    	One of the set-ups in a shanty that I fished in that I liked was
    as follows:
    
    	The line holders were two 16d nails nailed into a 2x3 on the
    front wall and were about 4-5" apart so that you could wrap the line 
    around them. The method for determining if there was a bite was to 
    place the line on the end of a piece of wire that had a little half 
    loop formed to hold the line over the hole. The wire was slightly 
    thinner and more pliable than coat hanger wire. These wires were at 
    eye level if you were sitting. Being that you weren't hunched over, 
    your back wasn't sore at the end of the night. This set-up proved to 
    be simple, inexpensive, and VERY sensative to even the slightest
    nibble. Also, this meant one less thing you had to bring to/from the 
    shanty, namely your rods.
    	If I ever decided to go with a shanty, this would be the set-up
    I'd use for smelt/white perch.

    	Some of the pros/cons of shanties in general:

    Pros: Warmth and shelter from weather, and privacy (to some degree).
    
    Cons: Cost, usually requires trailer/pickup for transportation, storage
    after the season, must lift up on blocks during melting conditions,
    requires checks during warm spells, limited room, can rot ice
    underneath without knowing it, requires checks during windy days
    if not anchored, not easily moved usually (limits fishing area),
    and potential fines if it falls through ice and is not recovered to 
    name a few.
    
    	All things considered, a well designed shack might be worth
    while if you lived within 10-15 minutes of it, but otherwise it seems
    the cons outweigh the pros (for me anyway).

    RAYJ

    I bring an empty joint compound bucket and sit on it in the cold.
    Pure class.....
     
                                    nightcrawler~~~~~~~~~~~~~~          
    

    I have made a portable bob house that folds up and can be transported
    on car top or in the back of a pickup.  By adding a set of old skis
    to it, it is relatively easy to drag around.  
    
    It's 4x8, and made of old scraps of wood, a sheet of plywood, and
    an old blue tarp.
    
    Maintenance - minimal - I had to retape the plastic windows this
    year.
    
    I've had 4 people in this with no real discomfort. The design can
    be easily halved to make a 1-2 man bob house.
    
    If you want a copy, and have an LN03, send me your device name (i.e.
    TTB5:) and I'll copy it down.  Otherwise, send me your mail address
    and I'll get you a hard copy
    
    Paul

	Smelt fishing in Maine is done almost exclusively in "Smelt Shacks"
or shanties. I never considered myself a wimp, but I can't picture fishing 
at night in the coldest part of the Winter without one. As someone in another
note stated the beer freezes before you can drink it. I imagine the bait and
everything else freezes also. 
	There are many places available where you can rent them. The rate 
this year seems to be a standard $7 per person for a 6 hr tide, including
firewood, bait and electricity. That aint bad for an evenings entertainment.
However, if you suffer from a lack of common sense as I do and end up with a 
large family, all of whom enjoy this kind of nonsense, this could become rather 
expensive. Because of this I am planning to build my own 6 person shack. Which
I will haul out on the Kennebec and leave it for the season.
	You can build a shack out of scavanged materials for practically 
nothing or you can be very elaborate and spend several hundred dollars. I am
planning on building a basic shack which will be 8' x 10' for about $100 and 
then add imrovements as I go along. With my 6 member family, I will break even 
on my third trip. Since I'm starting late I may not get much benefit out of it 
this year but it should be fun building it anyway. If it comes out well maybe 
I'll write another reply and describe the design. 

Paul	Fishin_goes_on_all_year_round

	I guess the benefits of my smelt shack project definately 
won't be felt until next season. At least three weekends have passed 
since I decided to build it and I have yet to drive the first nail.
I intend to keep trying though. If I don't I'll just repeat this
scenario next year.
	I did produce a portable ice fishing shanty last year which
I used up north on one trip. It consists of 3' wide, poly tarp covered 
panels which fit into tracks on  both the top and bottom. The roof is
just another tarp stretched over the top and held in place with bungy 
(sp?) cords. Its kind of flimsy until guy ropes are in place but its 
fairly light and can be carried on a dog sled behind a snow mobile or ATV. 
It can be assembled in about 20 minutes. I used a kerosene heater in it 
and it managed to keep us comfortable even though the structure is not 
very air tight. I have some improvements in mind like a 1/4" plywood 
floor and a different heat source. I think a propane heater would allow 
me to tighten the structure without worrying about CO.
	I like using a shack up north because, even though I like the
outdoors, temperatures below zero and wind chill can make an ice fishing
outing feel more like survival training than enjoyment. Maybe I'm just
getting soft in my advancing years.

Paul	Torn_between_enjoying_Winter_and_longing_for_open_water

    Has anyone used any of the commercially available portable shacks? 
    
    Last year I made a lightweight sled that carried stuff well and setup
    as a  3 sided windscreen.  Getting out of the wind is 1/2 the battle
    when it comes to staying warm, and keeping the lantern right next to me
    helped abit as well. The only problem with it was that when it was
    windy, if I wasn't sitting in the sucker, it would go sailing off...  
    
    This year I'm considering portable shack.  I'll either make one from 
    plywood similar to paul's design that he sent me last year, or I'll 
    go with a store-bought one.
    
    This year BPS is selling a poly tarp based kit where you provide the
    wood and they provide the poly and poles, this setup doesn't look bad. 
    
    The poly based shacks will be alot lighter weight then a plywood based 
    shack, that is why I like the idea of the poly.   They also have some
    poly shacks that come with a molded plastic floor that folds up and 
    stores things as well, these look nice but they are real pricey at $200+.
    
    I'll be using it primarily for smelt fishing.  If I lived closer to the
    smelt I'd just build a nice one and leave it there, but I'm over an
    hour away and I never now how often I'll make it up there.
    
    Has anyone checked out any of these commercial portable shacks?
    
    donmac - who hasn't even considered storing the boat yet... just 
             thinking of what the wife can by me for Christmas 8^) 

Hey Don...

Make sure it's big enough for TWO!! (plus a couple of 6-packs, extra coffee, 
etc).

    	Don,
    
    	I haven't tried/seen any of the portables but I started making my
    own. I wound up scapping it because even with 2x3's spaced 2' o.c.,
    just the frame alone was heavier than I would want it.
    
    	I may try again but I don't think I'll try it with a wood frame
    this time. Possibly a PVC frame with a polytarp over it. You would
    probably have to cut/sew and or glue the tarp into a box and just
    make a simple box frame. The door could be done with velcro and
    the 4 pipes connecting the sides may be able to be drilled/pegged
    for easy assembly/take down. Actually, once you pulled the tarp
    down over the frame, that would keep it together. It wouldn't be 
    fancy but it would be light, cheap, and portable and would serve 
    the purpose.
    
    	RAYJ

Another way might be to use aluminum tubing.  If you go to the local junk
yard, they always have old lawn chairs, lawn mower handles, etc there that
could be used for lightweight framework.  PVC might work but to keep it light
you'd probably have to sacrifice some rigidity (i.e. it will bend in the
wind).  Then pick up some nylon reinforced tarpaulin for the sides and sew
some seams in to strengthen it.  Ray's idea of velcro flaps for doors sounds
good.  I think aluminum would hold up better than PVC, especially if you
start drilling holes in them for quick assembly.

Joe

    I used a poly tarp and aluminum (ex-tent) poles for my windscreen
    and it worked well.  R/O Palmer also suggested the PVC pipes, but Joe
    has a point, the lightweight stuff is fairly flexable.  R/O also
    mentioned that Zyla has one on display, I'm going check that out,
    maybe tonight.  
    
    donmac 

Don...

Regardless of what you build, unless you use something like plywood for the 
flooring to add weight, a stiff wind will blow it away if you're not in it.  
It kind of defeats the purpose of building something lightweight and 
portable when the wind carries it across the ice.

Anyone got any ideas to anchor a portable shack down?  Something like tent 
pegs for the ice?

    Some of the shacks have holes in the corners for pegs.  The one I
    looked at last night at Zyla's had them.  After looking at one first
    hand again, I cannot justify dropping $150-$200 for one, when I know I
    can make one for a fraction of the cost.
    
    Aluminum tent poles, a blue poly tarp, some velcro, maybe a zipper
    or two, a few pieces of wood... 
    
    donmac

    
>    Aluminum tent poles, a blue poly tarp, some velcro, maybe a zipper
>    or two, a few pieces of wood... 
    
>    donmac


	Ah...yup, After fishing in 12 degree weather on an open lake last year
( Much colder with winchill ) I decided I needed a portable shantie.

Warning	Extremely long winded explanation to follow...

I plan to use much of the same materials, I had originally  thought to use
a pvc frame work ,but as previously mentioned it is heavy compared to old tent 
poles. My friend got the crating from a test system dropped off at the house 
and it will make the wood base. There is 1/4' plywood backed with 1"x4" pine
around the outside edges and as extra support. Then we stripped some more of 
the 1"x4" pine and are using it to make a Box. The overall floor dimensions 
are 6' x 7 1/2' but the box is 3' x 7 1/2' and 10" tall it will fit in the
back of a truck or station wagon or even in my escort hatchback with a couple
feet out the hatch. The box opens like a split cover tackle box and holds all 
your tent poles and Blue poly tarp.The box can further hold tilts and other 
accessories. After you take all you supplies out of the box it is hinged and 
folds all the way out flat to 6'x7 1/2' and the you flip it over so you are 
5" off the ice with an air tight insulation space beneeth. We also plan on 
sewing up the blue poly tarp to slip right over the tent pole frame and velcro
onto the wood floor and velcro a door and window. We plan to have some skis on 
a little frame that the box simply sits on top of. Also to put a couple of 
ropes with wood handles on each end for lifting and carrying. We have cut
all the wood for the box/floor and assembled a good bit of it enough  to lift
it and it is alot lighter than I thought it would be, very managable. I would 
estimate it at 50 pounds, not bad for a homemade design that will hold four 
people comfortablly. I plan to have it with me at the Ice fishing tourney if 
anyone is interested in seeing our version of "roughing it".

	By the way the beauty of this is the cost, the crates for wood were 
free, the old tent poles we had enough between the two of us, found some 
velcro in the shed, old skis in the cellar. So far I have spent 1.79 on 
wood glue, and 1.59 on finish nails. I will have to buy some blue poly tarps 
at Spags, but if the whole project costs less than $30 I think I will be
ahead of the game.


Johnny Roach.........................................

    re.11
    
    	Joe,  Anchoring your shanty is pretty easy. After drilling your
    holes put the slush in a bucket and deposit it around the shanty. If
    it has ski's put it over the ski's, if not put it tightly around the 
    out side (quickly if it is real cold). Sit down and let it set. Of
    course it wont work if the weather is above freezing. Set up your wind
    break and your there. Removal can be done with a ice chisel or a
    tire iron if need be.
    
    Rich
    

    Oh ya, one other thing I have seen done, Drill a hole in the middle of
    2 2"X3" about 1.5' long. Tie a piece of rope through the hole (5'
    long?). Drill two holes behind the shanty. Push the 2X3 down the hole
    so it is trapped under the ice (like a toggle bolt). Tie the other end
    to the shanty. Repeat in the other hole. 

    Rich

    Rich, the toggle bolts are a great idea, especially if your putting
    up a shack for the season.  If you were putting it up for the season
    you would probably have to cut it free since the wood would be buried in
    the ice.  Sounds like that would even work by tying some twine onto a 
    small piece of branch - a small branch would be less of a hazard come
    iceout, and less of an eyesore. 

    JR, I'm thinking along similar lines, however I'm looking at an something
    like 4'w x 8'l x 6'h.  And just folding it in half so it'd be 4x4 folded. 
   
    I'm pretty sure I want the bottom real close, if not on, the ice.  I'd
    be using for smelt fishing most of the time, fishing right thru the
    floor.  Smelt are little guys that'll often fall off right at the hole
    - I'd like to be able to grab them, and not have them scurry under the 
    shack.
    
    RayJ's idea about wrapping the line around the nails was interesting as
    well. I recall one shack that had spring loaded line holders/reels
    mounted on the wall - looked as though you could juts give the line a
    tug and the smelt would come flying up.  Once the shack is built I'll
    have to come up with something to eliviate bending over the hole all
    night.
    
    Geez, warm shacks, automatic smelt retrievers, maybe I should just go
    to the fish market instead... 8^)
    
    donmac

    Don, The wood will pop out real easy. Just keep the holes clean. When
    your done, push down on one side of the wood and they pop right out.
    Roll the rope around for easy storage. If you where to leave them in
    for the season I would recommend that you do 4 corners so when the wind
    shifts it won't.

    Rich

    	One of the hard things about all this is keeping it simple.
    here's something that I though of that would be real simple to make 
    and useful if you fish the same spot/s a lot. Make two poles U shaped 
    liked so:
     ______   <
    |      |  |
    |      |  5-6'
    |      |  |
    |      |  <

    ^      ^
    |--4'--|

    	The first time you go out, you make holes in the ice and stick
    these in (propped up) so that they freeze in place. You could make
    this a little easier by attaching some L-shaped brackets a few inches
    up from each leg so that it could rest on a 2x3. 
    
    	The next time you go, you'll have the framework to slip your make 
    shift poly tent over (if you need to get out of the wind). When your 
    done you simply slide the poly-tent off the framework and take that
    with you and leave the poles. 
    
    	As far as the poles are concerned, they're cheap enough to make and
    put out multiple sets in multiple locations. For retrieval, tie the 
    poles together with a piece of twine and tie a piece of styrofoam on 
    to another piece as a marker float. If the ice goes out you'll be able 
    to recover your poles. 
    
    	Since the poles are going to stay, you could make them out of
    steel gas pipe so they couldn't be easily bent or destroyed. Since 
    this is a one shot deal (lugging the poles in) the weight of the poles 
    is not a big factor. Also, when the ice goes out they'll hold the
    bottom even in strong currents (unlike aluminum or PVC) like where 
    we ice fish for smelt. You could also make them out of wood but
    they'de be more prone to vandalism and would be a boating hazard
    if not recovered before ice out.
    
    	Another nice thing is you won't have to worry about wind because
    it will already be anchored via the poles.
    
    	If you wanted to have the built in rigs (line wrapped around
    nails) you could take a 2x3 all set up and tie it to the poles (or
    screw it in with thumb screws through the pipe) and viola', you
    have all your rigs set up and ready to go in seconds.

    	RAYJ

    	One other thought about the previous suggestion. You'll want
    to paint the poles orange or tie highly visable ribbons or something
    to/around them if your setting them up in an area where snow mobiles 
    are used.
    
    	RAYJ

    
    Am I missing something?
    
    Why not frame a floor with 2x4s and cover it with plywood (cut the
    appropriate holes through the floor) then pitch a tent on top of the 
    floor?
    
    Set up the chairs, cots, stoves, heaters, VCR ...ETC.
    
    TBDW

    Rayj, that's not a bad idea... not sure how that would fly with the
    f&g folks though...  I'd guess that they would at least want your
    name, etc, on it...
    
    TBDW, if your thinking of toting that floor along with you, it sounds
    like serious weight... if your considering leaving it there it'd be
    covered with snow...
    
    BPS sells ice fishing tents w/o floors, a 5'x5' for $47.79 and a 
    7'x7' for $79.97...
    
    I'm pretty sure I can build a 4'x'8 fold up job for less than $50...
    
    One nice feature that I saw on the shack at zyla's was fold-away
    runners for the bottom.  Getting it up on a pair of runners 6" 
    or so off the ice would make it so it could be pulled easily, 
    rather than more or less dragged.  
    
    I'm now keeping my eye out for something I can use for fold-up
    runners... 
    
    donmac

    re:20
    
    	As Don had mentioned, a floor like that has some considerable
    weight. I never realized (until my first attempt) just how hard
    it was to build a bob house and keep the weight down. Also, setting
    up a tent in the winter is not like doing it is summer/spring/fall.
    I typically fish right on the ice (at night for smelt) and don't
    even consider going in a shack until the temp drops below 10 degrees.
    At that temp, fingers do not do work very well and what would normally
    be a quick easy task (i.e. setting up a tent) can become an almost
    impossible chore under these conditions.
    
    	RAYJ

    I looked back at this topic yesterday and was surprized to see that I
    never commented on the shacks I built (and eventually purchased) last
    year. 
    
    I started off the season with the 'hack shack'.  I built a 4'x8'x6'
    shack with PVC pipe, a blue poly tarp and a 2"x4" floor frame without
    a floor.  It took a little while to setup, had to be tied down in
    strong winds, but overall wasn't a bad shack for the small amount of
    money I had into it.
    
    However, in order to fish the following few weeks after Tim Lucia 
    viciously attacked me with his ice-auger, (sending me on my one and 
    only ambulance ride [see note 1284.24]), I had to buy a shack that 
    I could setup with one hand. 8^)  
    
    My wife, feeling sorry for me in my crippled state, wound up buying me 
    a Viking portable ice house from Zyla's (Northern Bass Supply carries
    them as well) as a late Christmas present.  
    
    It's a tad on the small side (5'10"x4'x6'), but it fishes 2 people
    comfortably, with just enough room leftover for the propane tank,
    lantern and stove/heater.  It only takes seconds to setup (even with
    one hand 8^).   When it folds down it measures about 3'x4'x6".  It also 
    has  fold down runners (about 8" high) that allow it to double as a sled.
    
    One modification I made was to turn the runners around.  The runners
    originally opened towards the middle and with a heavy load it did not 
    balance well.  By opening the runners to the outside it should be able
    to balance a heavier load.  

    donmac - who eventually regained full use if his right hand 8^)

    So Don, you don't have to use your left hand any more, huh?
    
    "It's all in the wrist", Don Mac, numerous times in 1990.