Conference wahoo::fishing

    While I am not sure what type of nervous system fish have and how
    much pain they do or do not feel I do know the following.
    
    Any fish you plan to keep (ie. eat) should be kill immediatly and
    bled. This is the most humane way (as opposed to them suffocating
    in a cooler) and will yield the best tasting fillets.
    
    Capt. Codfish

    	My answer would be 'yes'. I belive that a fishes tactile nervous
    system is more than capable of registering 'pain'. What else could
    expain the way fish 'learn' from our mistakes? They get the 'point'
    and remember it.
    
    							Joe W.
    
    Where the Westfield meets the Westfield on the Westfield in Huntington!
                                                                         

    This is a controversial subject when taking about any lower species.
    Fish, like other animal species, react to pain.  The question is
    do they understand what pain is?  Not being highly intelligent it
    is believed they don't understand what pain really is and therefor
    don't feel pain but a stimulus and react to that.  Not really knowing
    is why we have these anti-vivisection and animal rights groups lobbying
    for animal protection.  Maybe someone should invent painless hooks!
    
    
    Joe
    

    
    So far no-one has been able to tell me whether or not fish
    have a nervous system.  I'm not an anti-vivisection lobbyist,
    I just want to know because this question was raised in the
    SOAPBOX file, and only 1 fellow, who was familiar with a salmon
    research facility, claims thats fish have a reactive system
    only.
    
    I was always under the impression that fish, being cold-blooded,
    do not have a nervous system, therefore, feel no pain.  Whales
    and porpoises are warm blooded, and definatley feel pain.
         
    So does anybody have the facts?!  Do fish (tuna, cod, makerel)
    feel pain?
    
    Thanks
    

    Why would a fish not have a nervous system because it is not warm
    blooded?
    
    It has some sort of dendritic nerve for a brain, hence there must
    be nerves to control.  I would think the CNS runs along the spine.
    
    Heck I remember cutting up annelids (Class = bait; Species = worm)
    in 7th grade bio and poking around the dendrite.  I can't think
    of anything over an annelid (I don't say "worm" because I'm not
    sure about tape worms and other lower species of worms) that does
    not have a dendrite or a brain.
    
    I am sure a fish, like a worm, feels pain.  Surely you've watched
    the worm being hooked and you know this hurts.  I'm sure it hurts
    the fish as well.  
    
    However, if anyone tells me not to fish because fish feel pain
    I'm going to have to inform that person that he or she is full of
    **** and to leave me alone.
    
    Brett_who_may_go_home_and_look_for_his_college_biology_book.

    CAUTION!!!!!!
    
    This is a totally unscientific response.
    
    I do believe that fish feel pain, but like many animals, are able
    to function much better than humans when in pain.
    
    This is based on strictly unscientific observation:
    
    An injured fish does tend to favor the area where the injury is
    located (even if the injury does not include loss of fin, etc.).
    
    I have seen and heard fish "scream" when sliced, especially rays,
    they don't take well to cleaning.
    
    I agree with the "clean kill" method in an earlier response, if
    you are going to keep it and eat it, get it over with quickly. 
    If not, take care when releasing it and let it grow bigger and suffer
    less.

    
    I'd like to put my 2 cents in here. I firmly believe that fish don't
    feel pain or feel anything like we feel, whether it be pain, or
    discomfort or the opposite of this such as being comfortable. I 
    do believe that they try to get into a situation which allows them
    to function with little change in there environment and still be
    able to satisfy their bodily funtions in an efficient manner. In 
    other words they try to work it so they don't have to do much or
    work hard to survive, and they set the conditions which provide
    minimum  stress to accomplish their daily duties such as eating.
    A fish is more reactive and is stimulated into doing things which
    may seem like they are feeling pain but in fact are reacting to
    something which is different within there environment or possibly 
    frightening. Depending on the type of fish, some are more sensitive
    than others or should I say can sense more changes in there environment
    than others, therefore more reactionary. I fish mostly for bass
    and I have experimented with them on various occasions and have
    concluded that they react differently under different conditions.
    An example is when hooked, a bass will fight as long as you are pulling
    or retrieving it, but if you suddenly stop pulling and just let
    the line loose it just goes back to a more normal movement. It 
    does very little unless the lure is heavy or they sense something
    hanging or swinging from their mouth, then it will try jumping and
    work to get the lure out of it's mouth. I've watched smallmouth bass
    return to a nest with a lure still it's mouth and not show concern.
    The times I've seen anything that looked like pain in a bass was
    when the hook was imbedded in the lower jaw, right on the pad where
    you hold them to remove a hook. Under these conditions they reacted
    more violently then when the lure was in other parts of their mouth.
    I still don't think they were experiencing pain as we know it, but
    more like a different sensation which got their attention and they
    wanted to get rid of it. Another experiment which I repeated was
    with 2 bass in an aquarium. I would feed them worms at times and
    noticed on several occasions I'd put a worm in and both bass would 
    attack but only one would be successful in capturing it, yet both 
    would swim away chewing. I deduced from this that they had very
    little feeling in their mouths and reacted only from what they saw
    rather than what actually happen. I've got to go now, love to say
    more here, but too many things going on....
    
    					Happy Holidays To All
    
    							Jim
    

    re: .6
    
    Oh yea, I forgot to mention that even though I don't know if fish
    feel pain, I try to get them back in the water fast to keep them
    healthy.  I think most people in this file feel that way and it
    goes unsaid.
    
    re: .7
    
    I'm not arguing with you, but you brought up an interesteing point
    when you said that perhaps fish were reacting sometimes because
    they wer "frightened".  I was think, "Can you be frightened if you
    never experienced pain?"
    
    I don't want to get to philosophical here, That was just my reaction.
    
    I never thought about this much, but I always figured fish felt
    pain.  
    
    Your point about fish not fighting once you let the tension off
    is a good point.  I suppose once that hole is opened, it feels the
    same, hook in it or not, without tension.
    
    I'm pretty sure that being filleted hurts, though.   :-)
    
    By the way, I'm not an expert either, just trying to draw from all
    those hours spent in a biology class room.
    
    Bret.

    I've "stuck" a number of swordfish with harpoons, and I _know_ that
    they reacted.  The question is whether they reacted from pain or
    fear.  I don't know why they reacted, only that they did.  Have
    fun with the SOAPBOX discussion. 8*)
    Jeff

    I guess that this is as good a note as any to wish you all a very
    HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON, and may all your shorts turn into trophies,
    may your hooks never rust and may all your fishing days be filled
    fun, fish and good times........
    
    Tight lines, Ranger Ron Scholz
    
    ps. fish have a nervous system, but do not feel pain (as we understand
    it).

    WHEW!
          Thanks Ron. I thought we would never get a straight answer
    here. They have a nervous system but do not feel pain. 
          They also get plenty "nervous" when the NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~
    is fishing for them! They are low on the food chain so speak. Sort
    of like the ledgend. 
                         NIGHTCRAWLER~~~~~~~~~~
    
    SOAPBOX??                                      
    

    
      There is a topic in SOAPBOX called the "Official Fisherman's
    Bashing Note".....I posed the question of fish feeling pain, (I
    didn't think they could).  Many (all practically) of the noters
    are positive that fish feel pain, even one die-hard  fisherman
    (I won't mention any names).
    
    But thats' the SOAPBOX file for ya, everyone in there is certain
    they are correct.  They should call it the "Archie Bunker" file.
    
    This fishing file is much more pleasant!  

    
    I agree that fish have a nervous system (since they are vertibrates),
    but I would have to disagree with Ron on the issue of pain (my
    reasoning follows).
    
    First, fish shouldn't feel any pain (or any sensation) when a hook
    penetrates the mouth since on most fish the mouth is composed of
    cartelidge(sp?) which contains no nerves.  The fish react because
    the hooking action, and subsequently the pull by the fisherman puts
    pressure on the jaw.
    
    Pain, as we know it, is nature's way of letting us know something
    is wrong, thereby allowing us to prevent further injury from whatever
    is causing the pain.  Physiologically, pain is the nerve cells being
    irritated to the point where they repeatedly fire off signals to
    the brain.  The brain interprets these signals as indicating that
    something is wrong.  Humans have given this sensory overload the
    name pain, and we have as a culture come to regard it as bad.
    
    Why should we believe that this feedback mechanism works any
    differently in lower life forms (specifically fish).  The only
    difference should be that the fish hasn't given the sensation the
    name pain.  The fish merely reacts instinctively to the sensation
    and does its best to make it stop.  I don't think anyone would
    argue against the position that cats and dogs feel pain, so why
    not fish?
    
    I'm not a Marine Biologist, but have always had an interest in
    biology so I'm comfortable in the belief that what I stated is
    accurate.
    
    Rich

    >Why should we believe that this feedback mechanism works any
    >differently in lower life forms (specifically fish).  The only
    >difference should be that the fish hasn't given the sensation the
    >name pain.  The fish merely reacts instinctively to the sensation
    >and does its best to make it stop.  I don't think anyone would
    >argue against the position that cats and dogs feel pain, so why
    >not fish?
    
    Dogs and cats feel pain because they are warm blooded.  Therefore,
    I would have to disagree that fish are in the same category.  I
    understand what your saying, that pain is different for different
    species.  

   >I'm not a Marine Biologist, but have always had an interest in
   >biology so I'm comfortable in the belief that what I stated is
   >accurate.
    
    Rich

    Me either Rich, and one of these days I'll get the source of
    information I'm looking for from a biology teacher or a research
    lab.  

Jeanne

    
    
    Here is an interesting article from the Worcester Telegram "TELL ME
    WHY" reprinted without permission.
    
                 " Do fish have pain sensors "
    
      In order to feel pain, a sensation must pass through nerve fibers to
    the brain. A nervous system is required for this to happen. And since
    fish do have nervous systems they must be able to feel pain sensations.
    
      The nervous system tells the fish about changes taking place outside
    and inside its body. The nervous system puts all this information
    together. it allows the fish to act on the information.
    
      The nervous system of a fish is actually much like those found in
    other vertebrates. At the head end,it is swollen into bulges that form
    the brain. The spinal cord reaches down the body. The body also has
    nerves.
    
      Some are sensory nerves. They carry messages such as sensations of
    pain, about the world outside the body or about variousparts of the
    body. They send out signals for action in the muscles or glands.
    
      In addition, there are special nerve cells that can receive changes
    in light,sound,chemicals,and water movement. Groups of these spacial
    cells form the sense organs: the eyes,ears, and nose. The sense
    organs send info to the brain.
    
      The brain has three main parts and they are connected by nerve
    fibers. Information received by one part of the brain can be put 
    together with info from the other parts. Each part of the brain does
    several important jobs. And the different sense organs report to 
    different parts of the brain.
    
      So you see that fish have a well structured nervous system, which
    enables them to do many things needed to exist under water.
    
    
    Don Mac I know that there is a file on whether fish can feel pain
    but I couldn't find it with a dir/tittle= .