Conference wahoo::fishing

    
    Hey Big Mac the MOD
    
    could you please direct us to last years conversations on smelt.
    I can't find it.
    
    (let's what kind of mod we really have here)
    

    
     
    Why it's 234.* of course, I have the whole directory memorized....
                                                                      
    

    I have seen guys fishing for smelt with cane poles off many of the
    docks and peirs through out boston harbor. According to the fisherman
    they are catching them in winthrop, hingham and quincy.
    
    That about all I know about smelting....
                               
    CC

    Going back and reading note 234.*, we really didn't discuss HOW
    we were fishing.  RAYJ is the expert here.  You still with us RAYJ?
           
    Were were using small ice fishing rods, the kind with the wire line
    holders on the handle, that you wrap the line around. Small bobbers,
    and small trout sized hooks with pieces of seaworms.  
           
    We were fishing the Lamprey River.  There's a place to buy bait,
    day or night, right near there - a couple of real nice oldtimers
    sell it out of there house.  Maybe someone else could give directions
    to the bait.
           
    Any other popular Smelt spots around? 
           
    Don Mac
           

    	There are a number of rigs you can use for smelt but the simplest
    (and cheapest) seems to work the best. I saw them at K-mart's in
    Hookset this past weekend for $3+ a piece and they come fully rigged. 
    The rigging consists of 6-8 lb. test, a sliding bobber, a split shot
    or two, and about a #8 hook. You will want to get some extra line, hooks,
    split shots and bobbers. The whole thing will come to under $10
    for 2 rods and the above items. You'll also want to dig up a couple
    of 5 gal. buckets to put all the tackle in. You can use these to
    sit on when you arrive and then to put your fish in when your done.
    Also bring a rag, a knife, needle nose pliers, and if you fish at
    night (which seems to be the best time) a colman lantern. Blackberry
    brandy is optional.
    	Just a couple of things worth mention. To fish the Great Bay
    area for smelt requires a fishing licence and you may want to put
    your name on the bucket to avoid hassles (required for taking fresh
    water smelt which these aren't but....). 
    	The rigging mentioned above looks as follows:
    
          			|    
    				| --- line
    				| 
    	      -----------------------------------------  ice line
			       ( ) -- sliding bobber
    	      -----------------------------------------  water line
    	     		 	|      
    	     			|    
	     			|
    	     	  	        o ___ split shots
    				o
				|
    				|
    				j --- hook

    	The rod is nothing more than a one piece fiberglass with a wooden
    handle and is about 2' long. You can make a make-shift rod simple by
    using the top half of a two piece fresh water rod. Just wrap about
    20 yards of line around the base and run it through the eyes out
    to the top, then rig as mentioned above. The sliding bobber can
    be a piece of styrofoam with a hole through it.
	The above is a little wordy to explain and is really much simpler
    to show you. As in last year I am making an offer to any and all interested
    in smelt/white perch fishing to join me this year. Last year myself,
    my fishing buddy Ken, Joe Tomas and son, and Don Mac went up and 
    managed to catch a few. Normally the action is such that you can
    only handle 2 rods as bites come every 15-60 seconds. The bait cost
    all of $1.50 and is enough to for 2 people to fish all night. When
    the time comes I'll post it and maybe we can get together. We usually
    meet at McDonalds in Raymond, NH and go up from there (about 30-40 mins.
    away).

    R/O_RAYJ_until_smelt_time

Hey, Ray...

I'm definitely up for it again!  Hopefully, we'll do a little better this 
time...and hopefully....my I'll do better than my son!!

-HSJ- (who_loves_eatin_dem_smelt!)

    When I was a youngster my grandfather used to take me smelt fishing
    every fall.  We used to start in OCT and fish up until it was to
    cold which was usually the beginning of DEC.  I remember many times
    sitting there with the snow flying and your hands so cold you'd
    get the hook in them and not even feel it.  Anyway we used to go
    to Hingham, Nantasket (at the end of "A" street) or at the tip of
    Hull (Pemberton).  On occasion we'd try Lynn.  First off you had
    to plan on being there at high tide.  They tended to come in with
    the tide so fishing the incoming and during high tide was the best.
    We used to use the long (8-10 foot) cane poles with a spreader and
    small hooks.  The bait was grass shrimp or small sea worms.  The
    grass shrimp always seemed to work better.  Fishing of the pier
    you'd let your line down five or six feet depending on the depth
    (not to the bottom) and wait for a bite.  Night fishing was also
    productive if you had a lantern to see by.  The best night we ever
    had we caught about 160 smelt.  They were so thick in the water
    that as soon as you baited and dropped your line you were pulling
    up two more.  I think those days have passed as years later I went
    back to these spots and there was no smelt fising being done at
    all.  The explaination I received was that the rivers down there
    the smelt used to spawn in became polluted therefor no more smelt.
    I haven't been back there in years so I don't know what's happening
    today.  Those smelt are real good eating and I remember
    occasionally catching one or two that went 14".  Good luck in your
    search.
    
    
    Joe
    

    re:7
    
    	I've used native shrimp pieces and they do seem to bite a little 
    better. About the same time of year that the smelt ice fishing starts,
    the native shrimp become plentiful. Two years ago I was getting 5 lbs.
    of native shrimp for $5. Last year it was 3 lbs. for $5 but that's
    still a decent price. You do have to clean them as they are whole
    shrimp with heads and all, but if you like shrimp it's worth it.
    From Jan. through Mar. I usually have shrimp scampi about once a week.
    As a bait they do tend to be easier to strip off the hook in comparison
    to sand/blood worms. I can usually catch 5-6 smelt on a piece of
    worm about this long >    <. Usually one bite is all it takes for
    the shrimp to be eatten. BTW - The place to buy the shrimp is about
    5 mins. from the McDonalds we meet at and if anybody is interested
    I could check the shrimp prices on the way by. The place is called
    The Pines but is only open on Thur. through Sun. in the winter. 
    	After talking with a few guys in my new job, it seems there
    are a couple of smelt ice fishermen. We were talking it over and
    what we may do is take a half day off and head up there on a Friday.
    The ones that have a long drive can get ample fishing time in and
    still get home at a decent hour (9-10 pm). As for myself, I'm ususally
    there until midnight or later depending on how they're biting. It
    seems that the early part of the year is the best so I like to get
    my freezer stocked up before it slows down. I'll try and post it
    in here with ample time for people to make plans. Tenatively I want
    to say Jan. 15th or 22nd but it depends on how soon the ice forms.
    
    RAYJ

    

    RE .8:
    
    3 lbs of shrimp for $5? 
    
    This sounds real good to me. Where is it that a one can by shrimp
    for such a price (Maine, Mass...)? Down here in CT, we might get
    some guys from Maine offering shrimp (head on) for $2.50 - $3.00
    lb. from their roadside pickup trucks. 
    
    -- Kevin

    	Re:9
    
    	This is in N.H. and the native shrimp I believe, come from Maine
    which is a lot closer to N.H. than CT. We also have the roadside
    trucks up here and their prices vary but are usually no more than
    $2 a pound (head on). This place ships to any place in the states
    but I don't think they would ship the shrimp. I don't think they
    take as much care on the boats in the handling of the native shrimp 
    as they do the larger ones. I almost always eat the shrimp the same 
    day I buy it. If you talk to the people in the trucks they'll probably 
    tell you the same thing. The place I get my shrimp is pretty reputable
    and will tell me how fresh the shrimp are if I ask. Being that I
    make scampi, I clean and inspect each and every shrimp before I
    cook it and I discard any that don't look just right.
    	I know this doesn't have a lot to do with smelt fishing but
    if your considering joining in the smelt fishing, you may want to
    bring a couple of extra bucks if you want shrimp. I'll keep you
    all posted.
    
    RAYJ

    	I have good news and bad news. The good news (if your into ice
    fishing) is that the weather forcast calls for bitter cold weather 
    right into New Years which may mean ice fishing is right around the 
    corner.
    	The bad news is that the shrimp prices are $10 for a 5 lb. bag.
    My wife says she seen them at the supermarket for $2.79 already
    cleaned (heads and shells off). This is a much better deal as about
    � the weight of the native shrimp is head and shell meaning at $10
    a bag, it's really about $4 for a cleaned pound. Not bad by some
    peoples standards but expensive for this time of the year this close
    to the source.
    	If the supermarket price is accurate, I may talk to the owner
    of The Pines and let him know. That way he may be able to bargain
    for a better price. He's paying $1.60 a lb. so you can't blaim him
    for wanting at least $2 a lb. I guess.

    RAYJ

    	Called up to the bait shop and they're just starting to put
    the shacks out (on the bay itself). The ice is supposedly safe but 
    I don't have any first hand details. I have a few people that I work 
    with interested in doing the half day thing mentioned earlier. Weather 
    permitting (i.e. not to windy and no blizzards) it looks like we're on 
    for this Friday. I'll be leaving from NIO no later than noon. I'll
    more than likely be going up there Saturday night (leave the house
    about 7 pm) too. If anyone is interested in tagging along on either
    day just drop me a line via mail. Let me know where you'll be coming 
    from and I'll enter directions for a central meeting place.
    
    RAYJ
    
    P.S. Supposedly the white perch are running already.

    Hey Ray,
    
    Check with the weatherman.  I heard a Nor'easter forecast for Friday.
    
    Steve

    I just received a report that the Smelt shacks are up on the Kennebec
    and the fishing the first few days was excellent. If any of you
    have business in ASO maybe you can work in a little smelting before
    you go back home.

    Paul,
     I'll be fishing at "James Eddy Smelt Camps" on January 23. Ever
    here of the place?
    Jeff

    Now jeff , you have to stay home for at least a little while.  :-)
    
    

    	re:13
    
    	Unless it's snowing at noon when I get ready to leave, I'll
    probably go. The tide sounds perfect for an early night of fishing.
    High tide is at 4:30 pm and I plan on being up there, set-up, and
    fishing before 2 pm. This will allow me to fish the last of the
    incoming and 2 or so hours into the outgoing. The bait shop reported
    very good catches of smelt yesterday and there should be no question
    of whether the ice is safe or not.
    
    RAYJ
    
    

    Actually, Mom and the kids will be going along too. They'll
    be showing off the new baby while me and the boys go smelt'n.
    Jeff

    	I can't make it Friday. Both of my kids are sick (possibly with
    strep) and I have to stay home and take care of them. I'm still
    planning on Saturday night though and it sounds as if the conditions
    will be better weather wise anyway.
    
    RAYJ

Jeff,
	I have never fished James Eddy. Is it in Merrymeeting Bay? If it
is, it should be a good as any other. As a matter of fact, if you can get
me its location or phone number today, I will try to get a shack this weekend.
I don't know how much luck I'll have this late, but if I do go I'll give a 
full report Monday.

Paul

    Paul,
      James Eddy is locate in Dresden.  I use to fish there every year
    when I lived in York, so it's kind of a tradition.  We've had some
    great times, even managed to catch a couple of fish.  The number
    is 1-207-737-2596.  If you go, watch out for the owners daughter,
    she gives true meaning to the saying "uglier then a bucket of bait".
    Keep me posted if you decide to go.
    
    Jeff

    Jeff,
    	I went to James Eddy last night with my two boys (8 & 10 yrs
    old). The fishing was fair. We landed 38 fish. We only fished from
    6:00 till 9:30 (I was stretching it at that, with school in the morning
    and all.). I imagine that if there were all adults in the shack and
    we fished the whole tide, the number of fish would have been much
    higher. The regulars reported some great catches so I guess the
    fish are there all right. Good luck on your trip the 23rd. Let us
    know how you make out.
    
    Paul

    Paul,
      Thanks for the info.  Sounds like you guys had a good time.  There
    have been times when we've filled a couple of 5 gal. buckets and
    times when we almost got skunked up there.  Either way, we always
    have fun.  I"ll keep you posted on how we do when we go.
    Thanks again
    Jeff

    	The smelt were in pretty good. I went from 8:30 pm till midnite
    and got 62 on Saturday and a friend and I got 72 from 6:30 till
    9 pm on Sunday. We could have gotten more Sunday if it weren't for
    the bitter cold. Just couldn't keep the old hands warm but at an
    estimated 0 degrees, that's understandable. We had to sit and just
    watch some bites while trying to get our hands warm. We brought
    a 6-pack but they froze solid halfway through the first beer.
    	I think I'm going to have to look into some neoprene skin divers 
    gloves. I tried playtex but they are about as warm as wearing no gloves
    at all. I have Gore-tex/thinsulate gloves but with bites every 15
    seconds (sometimes less) to a minute, you just don't have time to
    keep putting gloves on and taking them off.
    	I saw my first game warden ever up there. He didn't check any
    licenses. He just wanted to know how long we were there and about
    how many fish we had. He measured some and checked the age of some
    others (by the number of rings in the scales).
    	The ice was about 6" thick and the smelt were about a 50/50
    mix of size and sex. We caught some of the biggest males I've ever
    seen (about 10" long) on Sunday though.
    	I'll be going up tommorrow night for a while as I can't make
    it this weekend (wife's birthday). I'd like to do the � a vacation
    day trip on Friday, Jan 22. There are a few guys I work with that
    wanted to go this past Friday but things didn't work out so this
    is the rescheduled date. We plan on leaving NI0 by noon. As before
    anyone interested in tagging along just drop me a line by mail and
    it will still be weather permitting (i.e. no northeaster's). We 
    might even have the white perch in by this date but you never know 
    when they're going to show up.

    Enough for now.............................RAYJ

    RayJ, that gloves comment is a good point.  I meant to bring that
    up a few times.  Has anyone ever tried divers gloves? or have a
    type that are waterproof, warm, and thin enough to beable to thumb
    a spool and/or tie a not???  donmac

Having been a scuba diver, I can say that diving gloves and mitts are just 
too clumsy to be practical.  Although they may keep your hands dry and maybe 
even warm, you'd still have to remove them to bait the hook.  

I'd suggest buying some surgical gloves to slip on UNDER your regular 
gloves.  That way, when you remove your gloves to bait the hook or remove a 
fish, at least they won't get wet.  That's half the battle of staying warm!

-Joe-

    Here is a little trick you might want to try.

Get your self a galvanized bucket and fill the bottom
with charcoal. Light the charcoal and after the lighter
fluid has burnt off and the charcoal has caught you can put the 
bucket between your legs. Now when your hands get cold you
simply just hold them over the bucket. In the interim the heat 
from the bucket will help to keep you warm.

One word of caution. Do not take said charcoal bucket into
an enclosure because charcoal can give off Carbon monoxide.
You have nothing to worry about at all if you are on the open
ice but you should always be careful what you take inside those
tiny bob houses because you can be over come with asphyxiation
and or carbon Monoxide.

bear
    

    The best way of staying warm is just do dress for it.
    many war layers.
    
    If you use some sort of external heat, fire or -1 once
    you leave that source of heat you get cold. It is like 
    wearing a winter coat in the house then going out in
    the cold you you feel cold.
    
    If you do have a fire.  When you leave, pick up your tilts
    first before putting it out.  Then go back to it and warm up
    then put it out and walk off.
    
    This all comes from past experiences and true facts.
    
    Bassin Bob
    
    Also watch out what you burn.  If you burn logs with dead Posion
    Ivy and breath in the smoke!!  Quess where you get it!!
    It will  put you in the hospital!!
    
    

    re:26

    	Joe,	
    
       	I tried the playtex gloves which even come with a thin cloth
    type lining. Although my hands stayed dry they were still every
    bit as cold.
    	You did give a good idea though. I may be able to put the rubber gloves
    over poly-propylene type glove liners. The poly-pro is supposed
    to be very warm and very thin. This may be just the ticket.
    
    RAYJ

    re:28
    
    	Smelt fishing can be very different from any other type of fishing
    (except maybe sunfish fishing). The problem (if you can call it
    that) is that when they're running the bites come in bursts so quick
    that you cannot even keep 2 lines in the water. Being that the hook
    and bait are so small, you must have enough sensitivity to remove the
    hook from the fish and re-bait. Wearing gloves does not allow for
    this sensitivity. The result is that I fish bare handed in 5-25
    degree weather and put my hands in my pockets when possible. This
    brings up another point. A rag to wipe your hands is probably as
    important as say a hat (unless you don't mind sliming the inside
    of your pockets). Other than that I am dressed warm enough to withstand
    temps below zero (as in last Sunday).
	Another thing is that you sit directly in back of the hole/s
    that you are fishing from. About the only time that you get up to
    move is when you go to the bathroom. You are fishing with jigging
    poles, not tilts. So the method that Bear mentioned is a feasible
    alternative.
        Another alternative is to fish in a shack but that has a different
    set of problems/hassles associated with it that I'd rather not get
    into. One is that a person fishing on the ice will normally outfish
    anyone in a shack. On the ice, most smelts can be removed from the 
    water in one motion. In a shack you must pull the line up hand over 
    hand and every time you switch hands is one more chance for the fish
    to get off the hook. The other problems (transportation, set-up,
    storage, removal, etc.) are just not worth it for me, but the smelts
    are.
    
    RAYJ

I think it is a mistake to wear cloves if you are smelt fishing.
You can't handle the lines properly and you can't handle the 
fish if you are wearing cloves. Also if you do get a bite
you won't have time to take them off.

smelt are very fast and to be proficient at it you will
have to tend you equipment at all times.

As a rule you sit in a bent over posture and when their in
you will have bites on more than one jig stick at a time.

The action is either very fast or non existent. This is because 
they travel in schools. If it is not real cold I will sometimes
warm my hands on the Coleman Lantern.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The other solution is a shanty. There are many draw backs to a 
shanty. It is not my intent to discuss this here but I afraid
that I will respectfully disagree with RayJ on one point.
That is that you catch less fish in a shanty. There is no
logical reasons that you would do worse in a shanty in fact
I would argue that the opposite is true.

What I believe RayJ is doing is comparing the results of the 
people in the shanty to the ones on the ice but I am afraid that 
this is in reality a comparison of the fishermen not of fishing
in a shanty. There are some very good fishermen that do very 
well in a shanty. 

Perhaps a discussion on shanties is in order and that RayJ is
right and I am wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

Bear.

    re:31
    	
    	I probably should have stated the shanty theory in different
    terms. I have fished on the ice and occaisionally, in a shanty.
    I personally have always done better on the ice. The reason is I
    tend to lose the fish trying to bring them up with the hand over
    hand method in the limited amount of room most shanties allow.
    	Fishing in a shanty, like anything else, requires practice and
    developement of a smooth hand over hand technique. Although this
    is the same basic hand over hand technique used on the ice, you
    can normally pull up 5-6' of line before switching hands as compared
    to 2-3' in a shanty. Most of the fish I lost in a shanty came when
    switching hands as it was not very smooth. 
    	I agree that one can be as/more successfull in a shanty vs. being
    on the ice as we have both seen. This can be especially true in
    extreme cold where your hands lose almost all fine motor control.
	I also agree with what you said about the gloves in that usually
    you do not have time to take them off and put them on and you must be 
    able to handle the line and the fish. If however, you could find
    a glove thin enough to do this and offer warmth too, this would
    be an ideal set-up. 

    RAYJ

Ray,

I was thinking of doing some smeltin' this Friday after work.  R/O Palmer 
was even thinking of going along.  How's chances of getting together?  I'd 
even consider cutting out of work early.

How was the smelt run over the weekend...did you go?  Also, considering 
we're due for a January thaw, I'd also be concerned with the safety of the 
ice if it keeps up this week.  Any comments?

later...

Joe

    Mike Hayward and I are considering heading up there Friday also...
    don mac

    	Didn't get up there this weekend. Between the melting conditions
    over the weekend and the rain today, I don't know how the ice is
    going to be. If we have safe ice I'll be going up Friday. I will
    call about ice conditions later in the week a take it from there.
    
    RAYJ

Well....it looks like ice conditions have improved since it's gotten cold 
again, so this Friday (29th), DonMac, R/O Palmer and I are heading to the 
mouth of the Lamprey River in Newmarket to do some smelt fishing.  The tide 
is supposed to be low around 4PM, so we'll be planning to get there an hour 
or so before and fish the incoming tide.  Hopefully, we'll have some decent 
action.

Anyone else from NH care to join in?

-Joe- (who'd rather be fishing OPEN water...sigh...)

I just did a little rummaging back thru the notes and came across this one.  
Just thought I'd repost this as a reminder for DonMac...


               <<< MSEE::USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FISHING.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< FISHING THE LEISURE SPORT >-
================================================================================
Note 80.23                REGISTER YOUR HAWG(S) HERE!                   23 of 41
AIMHI::TOMAS "Joe"                                   16 lines  26-JAN-1987 08:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I know that DONMAC is much too modest to post this catch, so I'll
    do it for him.
    
    SPECIES  :    Atlantic Smelt
    WEIGHT   :    3.45561022 ounces
    LENGTH   :    8.25 inches
    LOCATION :    Newmarket, NH  Lamprey River
    DATE     :    1/23/87
    BAIT/LURE:    sea worms
    COMMENTS :    it put up a real fight....Don battled it for at least
		  10 minutes as it tried to head for sea.  But, Don wouldn't
		  give up and finally he netted the "hawg".  

		  P.S.  I think he said he was having this mounted too!