Conference wahoo::fishing

    I bought the same one from sears to charge my die hard
    deep cycle and to date I have had no problems with its
    performance. Maybe you just got ahold of a bad one. Bring
    it back and let them replace it.
    
    dave
    

    Not knowing which model you bought, the only suggestion I can offer
    is to make sure that the charger has the feature of automatically
    shutting off once the battery is fully charged.  Overcharging a
    battery can quickly destroy it.
    
    Joe

    Steve,  I have the same model charger.  I don't normally buy anything
    from Sears but it was on sale for $25.00.  I had the same problem
    with mine but I just tapped the glass where the needle gauge is
    and it bounced up and I was alset.  I think it was a matter of the
    needle getting stuck.  
                                                 John

    	When charging a deep cycle, you should have a charger that is
    made to charge that type of battery. I have the Sears automatic
    charger and it works o.k. so far. Sometimes you really have to wiggle
    the connections to the posts to get a good one.
    
    	As far as the supposed difference between a deep cycle battery
    charger and an auto battery charger, the difference is in the charging
    rate. The deep cycle battery charger charges slower which makes
    the battery bubble less. This is also used for low/no maintenance
    batteries. If using a regular battery charger, you should remove
    the filler caps so that you don't get a pressure build-up when
    recharging. 

    	The automatic or the timed charge is the way to go. You can
    definitely damage a battery by overcharging it. With the automatic
    you can hook it up and forget about it till the next day. It will
    shut off when the battery is fully charged so as not to damage the
    battery.
    
    	All of this info should be either with the battery, the charger,
    or both.

    RAYJ

    	
    How long should a battery be charged for? I always thought the needle
    should go to zero, but when I charge my batteries it only goes down
    to around 2. Is there something wrong with my charger or is that
    normal?? Also, if a battery sits in water in the back of a boat,
    will that draw a charge out of it? ( the boat is fiberglass,
    if that makes a difference...)

                                         RB

    the length of time needed for the charge will depend on how low
    the charge was... if it's an 8amp charger, then it's pushing 8amps
    per hour, so a completey dead 80amp deep cycle would take 10 hrs...
                                         
    anyway, I had a normal 6amp charger... ended up over charging my
    fairly new battery, it's only a year old now and the indicator never
    leave the red zone...                                         
                                                                  
    anyway, I now have a 10amp automatic charger with a deep cycle switch, 
    it will bring the charge down to a trickle when the battery is fully 
    charged brings it down to a trickle... no more worrying about 
    overcharging...  can leave it on overnight w/o any problems...

I would suggest you pick up a hygrometer to check the specific gravity 
of the battery acid.  You can pick one up at Sears or any automotive store 
real cheap ( less than $5 ) and you can easily determine if the battery is 
fully charged.  The one I use has 5 little balls that float, and depending 
on how many are floating determines the level of charge.

i.e.
	# balls floating		% charge
	===========================================
		0			  0 % 
		1		       	 25 %
		2			 50 %
		3			 75 %
		4			100 %
		5			OVERCHARGED

It's real simple!  

-Joe-

    Buy an automatic charger at least 10amp.  I have big deep cycle
    batteries.  With my old 4 amp it took two days to get back to full
    charge after a long day fishing.
    
    I have a 20 amp one now which switchs to trickle and shuts itself
    off on full charge..  It also charges a 24volt system with two
    batteries in parallel..  Nice charger big bucks.
    
    You can get away with a sear or the ones kmart sells for smalll
    bucks.   
    bbp
    

    	When using a standard charger on a deep cycle battery, if the
    current needle goes to zero, buy a new battery.  The charger is
    meant to generate about 16 volts to charge a 12 volt battery.  If
    you are using a 10 amp charger to recharge a deep cycle battery,
    a rule of thumb of how long to charge is the formula:
    
    			IM/2*HOURS/IC= charge hours
    
    		WHERE:	IM     = MAXIMUM MOTOR CURRENT DRAW
    			HOURS  = APPROXIMATE HOURS MOTOR IS RUN
    			IC     = CHARGER CURRENT MAXIMUM
    
    	This will come very close to being the correct time.  If you
    don't use the motor much or use a maximizer change the first part
    of the formula to IM/3.  Then check the battery with a cheapie 
    hygrometer.  If you buy a timer that plugs into the wall, you can 
    plug the charger into this and set it for the time and leave it.  
    No more forgetting and bad batteries.
    
    	As for the battery setting in water, this won't damage the battery
    or change the discharge rate at all unless the water gets above
    the battery terminals.  If it reaches the terminals, it could short
    the battery.  But, with the new plastics and etc. the battery can
    set in water and not damage it any.
    

    Never charged car or boat batteries, but I have a lot of
    experience with forklifts & such. Even when the battery is fully
    charged, the meter needle does not zero. It usually rests at
    10 - 20% of the full charge rate. Don't know why. Wouldn't worry.

    	In my other reply, I alluded to why you will always have current
    showing from a battery charger.  The charger generates 16 volts.
    The battery is 12 volts.  Current flows between points of different
    voltage (like water trying to level itself out). Therefore, even
    when the battery is fully charged, current will flow from the charger
    to the battery.

    Since my deep-cycle battery is for my trolling motor on canoe, I
    bought a 2 amp trickle-charger at Spags for only 5 bucks.  I just leave
    it pluged in all the time at home so it's always fully charged and
    ready for use.  I rarely fish long two days in a row with it, so
    it works for me just fine.  The nice thing about a trickle charger
    is that you can't over-charge your battery.  You also can't complain
    about the price.
    Mike_L

    
    Rene O'l buddy....why don't you get out of your office and 
    walk into mine, and I'll tell you about battery discharge in water..!!
    
    				THE GENERAL

    
    Thanks for the help, guys.  I returned the charger night before
    last with no problems, just like the commercial.  I also picked
    up a hydrometer for $1.49.
    
    With 1.5 hours of charging, the battery is back to over 1/2 charged.
    Another 1.5 hours and I'm set.  Looks like the charger was just
    plain defective.
    
    
    Steve

               <<< MSEE::USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FISHING.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< FISHING THE LEISURE SPORT >-
================================================================================
Note 674.13        (Trolling Motors) Help with Advice, Please.          13 of 13
MPGS::NEAL                                           24 lines  20-APR-1988 11:50
                                 -< Charging >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    re.11
    I am surprized that they didnt give you a handout that tells you how
    to care for a deep-cycle. I'll try to give you what I remember off the
    top of my head. 
    
    Dont over charge the battery. (Cuts down on life)
    
    Always check the fluid level and add distilled water only! Once the
    water gets lower than the plates then that portion of the plates loses
    its life.
    
    Buy a battery tester and use it. $3 maybe. You will get a feel for how
    long it takes to charge as time goes on. 
    
    Always charge the battery when you are done for the day. Dont leave a  
    battery discharged. 
    
    I have a 4 amp charger also. It will go almost to "0" when fully
    charged. 
    
    My last deep-cycle lasted 10 years using the above rules.
    
    Rich
    

    Well I guess Ill have to fess up. I cooked my deepcycle by poor
    equipment/care over the past year. 
    All last year I charged it using a non-automactic charger from Sears.
    I *think* its meter didnt do me justice. I also let the fluid get
    low on occasion.
    My new Sears Sensor II (has deepcharging wizard inside Im told -
    wanna buy back the bridge?) Anyway - its beeping noise indicates
    "wont hold charge". Without too much checking Im sure Ive cooked
    one of the cells due to the value in volts its showing.
    
    Two questions - charger has two settings 10 amps and 2. Is 2 'easier'
    on the battery? I realize it will take longer to recharge - but
    assuming I have time - would it be better?
    Second - (two here) do I get the BIGGEST/BEST I can find? And who
    do you like? 
    I live in Merrimack, NH..
            sadder but wiser lavender Jack..

    	I have a Sears 10/2 amp automatic charger and it also has a
    switch. It switches between regular and low maint. batteries. The
    directions indicate why. Basically most low maint. batteries are
    sealed. The more amps you allow the more bubbles and evidently the more
    chance for explosion. When charging regular batteries you're supposed
    to remove the filler caps and charge at the 10 amp/regular car battery
    switch setting.
    
    RAYJ

    FWIW.....as I recall my maintainence data on batteries, the 10 amp
    charge works just fine for getting your batteries back up to full
    charge. Especially the 'deep cycle' trolling batteries. The 2 amp
    range is for "trickle" charging your batteries durning long storage
    periods, or to keep them up to snuff between uses.
    
    This is what I do. After about three trips I fully re-charge my
    trolling batteries (or one trip if its a river). Then the day before
    I go out, I put the batteries on trickle charge. This keeps them
    "fresh" or so the books say. I will also put my cranking battery
    on trickle charge about once every four or five trips....just in
    case the alternator didn't run enough to keep the charge on it up.
    
    Durning the winter I remove them to the basement for storage and
    put the trickle charge on them every month for about a four hour
    period. I have never had a battery problem in more years of fishing
    than I care to comment on.
    
    Tight lines, Ranger Ron

    I have heard that it's best to keep batteries cold as possible during
    long storage periods like during the winter! and I also have been
    told that it's best to bring in your battery from the cold weather!
    
    So my question is (as if you didn't already guessed!) what is the
    best condition for storing batteries for a long period of time?
    
    Bass-O-Matic
    

             Saw a show this past Sunday and it was stated to fully
    charge the battery and 'stick it into a snowbank if ya got one'.
    In otherwords keep it stored in the coolest place possible. I'll
    take the shows word for it, since it WAS a fishing show.
             BTW, these shows are on every Sunday on The Nashville
    Network. Outdoors with Bill Dance, the In-Fisherman and Bass-
    Masters, to name a few.
    
    
                  Bob

    
    I don't know at what temperature the contents will freeze solid,
    but I would expect you'd want to avoid that possibility.  Outdoors
    in Nashville is a lot warmer that outdoors in New England.
    
    I keep mine in the cellar ovre the winter.
    
    -SSS-

    Happen to have a booklet on batteries in my desk. According to
    GNB(makers of Action Pack/Stowaway) they state on page 15:
    
    PRECAUTIONS TO BE TAKEN IF THE BATTERY IS TO BE STORED FOR AN EXTENDED
    PERIOD OF TIME
    
    1. Charge battery at room temperature.
    
    2. Clean terminals.
    
    3. Store the battery in a cool place(but avoid freezing temperatures).
       All batteries will lose some charge when stored, but the lower
       the temperature, the less the loss of charge.
    
       Avoid humid places, as dampness may cause corrosion of terminals.
    
    4. Check battery charge level every three months or so using a
       hydrometer. recharge the battery fully if the charge level is
       below 75 percent.
    
    One other mention on long life in the booklet states to store in
    a cool dry place. Self-discharge is minimized at lower temperatures
    (50 degrees is generally ideal)
    
    Ed

I remember reading someplace (maybe in this notefile) that during long
periods of storage, a load should be place on the battery to discharge it.
Then you should charge it back up again.  This keeps it excercised.  Otherwise 
the deep cycle battery will attain a memory, and a full charge will never 
be accomplished.
However, I saw the same fishing show two weekends ago that said just keep 
it in a snowbank if you got one.
I like the idea of discharging and charging, because that's what deep cycles
were meant for, not to be kept a full continuous charge.  Also, when you
charge them in the basement, you should keep the battery off the cement floor.
It has something to do about the floor being colder than the surrounding air,
it won't charge properly.
I have three deep cycle batteries in the basement now, and I haven't done
anything to them yet.

Mike_L

    Chemistry-wise, it makes sense that a battery should be as cold
    as possible in storage. Chemical action will be at a minimum and
    latent charge will be preserved. The reason that some people take 
    their car batteries in for the night in the night - to keep them 
    warm - is that the battery will be able to do it's job better when
    it's warm (perform its internal chemical magic).
    
    I doubt that any well cared for, fully charged battery would freeze
    (and crack) in even our New England cold, but I also believe in
    the law of diminishing returns, ie, cool is good, cold is better,
    very cold is not that much better...
    
    I like the idea of discharging and recharging a deep cycle battery at 
    least once during the winter, to keep it's "memory" good. My discharge
    device is an automobile headlamp and two alligator clips - I use
    it when my floating ball hygrometer tells me the battery is
    over-charged.
    
    Ed
    

    	I may be wrong but I thought it was only the rechargable Nicad
    type batteries that had a memory, not wet cells.
    
    	Also another "not so clear" piece of trivia I remember is that
    once a wet cell type battery has been charged once, you never want
    to let it stay in a discharged condition longer than you have to. From 
    what I remember, the chemical action in a wet cell basically eats the
    plates after a while. Metal particles migrate through the electrolite 
    (acid) to the plate adjacent to it when disharging. When you charge
    the battery, you reverse the process and return the metal to the 
    plate. The quicker you recharge it after disharge, the more particles 
    you get to return. Some of them remain on the other plate regardless 
    and that is what eventually makes the battery go bad. 

    	RAYJ

    	Powerboat Reports did a complete report on batteries in their 
    December issue.
    
    	Using a DVM you can determine the state of a battery by reading
    the voltage noload after charging and sitting 48 hours.
                                                                   
    	State of Charge (%)	Voltage
    	
    		100		12.80
    		75		12.60
    		50		12.40
    		25		12.20
    		0		12.00
    
    	Have fun,
    
    	Steve

    I just bought one of these Sears 10/2 amp automatic shutoff chargers.
    Well, it seemed to work fine at first but now I have a couple of
    concerns.
    
    	First, I have been charging my deep cycle battery for 3 days now
    and it hasn't shutoff!  I put a voltmeter on the battery while it is
    hooked to the charger and it reads 16+.  When I disconnect the charger,
    the battery starts to drop to 12.47 or so.  Is it normal for a battery
    to do this?  Why is is taking so long to charge this battery?
    
    	Second, the needle on the charger always reads 14 no matter if I
    switch the charger to 10 amp, battery test, or 2 amp.  It hums about
    the same also.
    
    	The one good thing I get is that it beeps when I first plug it in
    to tell me that the connections are correct.  I also open the caps
    slightly and let the thing charge away.  This morning I checked it and
    the battery was bubbling away.  The charger was hot and I didn't know
    what to think.
    
    						Swivel

    	I have a Sears auto charger and it sounds like yours is different
    then mine (mine doesn't beep). It also sounds like yours is not working 
    properly (meter reads 14 amps constantly).
    
    	Mine typically starts with the needle pegged and then goes down
    to about 1 to 2 amps after a couple of hours on a diehard battery. I
    forget the exact battery model # but I believe it ends with either
    a 52 or 62 (i.e. 9652 ???).
    
    	You may want to try hooking it up to a different battery (like your
    car battery) and see if it does the same thing. If it does, bring back
    the charger and let Sears replace/fix it.
    
    	RAYJ

    Dont worry to much about the voltage reading across the battery, it
    should be about 14 - 16 when recharging,  BUT if you continue to read
    14 amps a day after you start charging you probably have a dead cell.
    The sears unit you have should read high for a few hours then drop off
    to about 5-7 then it will sit there for hours until it is real low and
    the unit will shut off.   I would do like Ray says and check the
    specific Gravity of EACH cell, 5 will get you ten that one of them is
    dead or the water level is real low.  
    
    Les

I think I have the same charger as you do. As I recall the front panel
meter is reading voltage not current, and mine reads between 14-15 volts
(closer to 15) when ever it is charging. Other chargers that I have owned
read the current. I'll tell you how mine behaves, and you can decide for
you self if your charger seems to be working ok.

 When I first plug it in, I get the series of beep that indicate that
the charger is connected correctly. When the battery is fully charged
the charger will give a single beep at about 30 second invervals.
It will do this for quite a while (12-24 hrs) then it stops beeping and
reduces to a trickle charge.

Wayne

P.S. Make sure you set it to the 10 amp charge position, and as mentioned
in a previos reply get a hygrometer to check the charge level.

    Thank you, I will definetly purchase a hygrometer tonight and take a
    look at what that tells me.
    
    						Swivel
    

>                      <<< Note 419.33 by HPSTEK::RHUFF >>>
>                     -< hygrometer...ya that's the ticket >-

>    Thank you, I will definetly purchase a hygrometer tonight and take a
>    look at what that tells me.
    
I think that should be hyDrometer, not hyGrometer.  A hygrometer measures
atmospheric humidity.  A hydometer measures specific gravity.

I also think that your charger will NOT switch off.  The 10/2 Amp charge
starts at 10 Amps (if fully or almost dead) then it switches to a trickle 
charge at 2 Amps.  This won't hurt the battery if left on a trickle charge,
although I wouldn't recommend leaving it on for over a couple of weeks. :^)

I have the same charger also (not the beeping kind).  I only let it charge
for a day, then I measure the specific gravity with a hydrometer.  If it's not
fully charged yet, I'll leave the charger on for another day.

Mike_L

Damn. I wrote a windy reply, and lost it.

I have the same charger. It will NEVER turn completely off. The buzzing
will never stop. But the charging will.

That charger has a microprocessor in it that determines when you've
connected a deep-cycle battery to it. The initial charge then is around
14v at high current. At a certain time the current is cut down to less
than an amp, and the voltage is run up to 16 volts or higher. This is the
"finishing charge" recommended for deep-cycle batteries. The charger is
smart enough to not do this for conventional batteries.

The charger never turns  off, but when it decides that the battery is
back to "full" it will beep the "good battery" beep, then sort of go to
sleep. 

The buzzing never stops, but the charger will cool down when the heavy
current charging is over.

Art

    I haven't hooked up a battery to my charger now since last week and the
    meter still reads 14 volts.  In fact, the charger isn't even plugged
    in as I'm not using it.  Does anyone else notice that the meter seems
    to stay in one place.  Maybe I should give the display window
    a little tap to see if it is stuck.
    	Still need to purchase a hydrometer and will tonight.
    
    						Rodney
    
    			

re:                      <<< Note 419.36 by HPSTEK::RHUFF >>>
>                            -< Is my meter stuck? >-
>
>    I haven't hooked up a battery to my charger now since last week and the
>    meter still reads 14 volts.  In fact, the charger isn't even plugged
>    in as I'm not using it.  Does anyone else notice that the meter seems
>    to stay in one place.  Maybe I should give the display window
>    a little tap to see if it is stuck.


Rodney,
	
If I were you I'd return the charger to Sears, tell them you are having 
problems with it, and exchange it for a new one.  I'm no expert, but maybe 
it's defective.  Sears is good about exchanging stuff too.  Might be worth
a try.

Ken

    I support Ken's suggestion, return the unit to Sears. When
    you unplug the charger the meter should return to 0.
    
    SOme other interesting facts.  A deep cycle battery needs
    about 14.7v to charge it, v.s. a regular battery which
    needs around 13.8v./
    
    A lead acid battery loses about 4% of its charge daily 
    just sitting there.
    
    
    
    Jim.

    I have a question on batteries;
    
       Will I damage a marine deep-cyle battery by conecting it to
    the alternator of my outboard?    
    
       I'm not sure whether deep-cycle batteries are built like ni-cad's
    which require near total depletion before re-charging?
    
       Is it better to exhaust a deep-cycle before re-charging?
    
    thanks
    Dick Cygan
    

    I use a deep cycle instead of a crankin' battery on my boat with 
    no adverse effects - came that way from the dealer.
    
    Does that answer the question.
    
    -SSS-

    Someone I know tried to start a truck with a deep cycle
    that was fully charged and couldn't turn over the motor.
    Something about the deep cycle is only good for a slow
    current draw. Matbe a boat motor is different. My $0.02
    
    
                                   Jeff (Captain)
                                   Team Starcraft

    
     Jeff,
    
     Get a life-
    
     12 volts is 12 volts!
     
     Dick, I have 3 deep cycle batteries that are constantly being charged
     all summer long.
     
     As long as you charger has a deep cycle switch your all set. Mine is
    a 10 amp automatic w/deep cycle switch. Put that baby on and forget
    about it. Once the batteries charged the charger goes into tricle mode.
    I've left my deep cycle batteries charging for 24 hours with the 
    automatic charger-
    
     - Dave 

    Yes, you are right "12 volts is 12 volts" but I think amperage
    and the amount of current any battery can deliver is key here.
    
    Go out and try to start your car with 8 AA batteries! That's 
    12 volts too. It's not volts that will kill ya, it's amps.
    
    
                                       Jeff (Captain)
                                       Team Starcraft

    
    I had a dead battery on an old Massey Harris farm tractor, circa
    '39. Used it only for the cordwood saw, 6" wide leather belt drive.
    "Well", I said, " It's only a 4 cylinder and about 30 horsepower,
    why not use one of the deep cycles."  Soon's I completed the 
    connection the deep cycle went off like a bomb!  Off came the clothes,
    and into the showers with the bod.  Luckily I had my back to it.
    
    A word from the "wiser from experience".  Please guys, don't do
    what I did. It was a 6 volt system that we had one of the cheapest
    12 volt car batteries you could find to run it for the generator
    had quit eons ago.  It was like a dead short to the deep cycle.
    A 105 ampere one to boot.   Like a howitzer went off!!!!!
    
    Yes, I admit it was a dumb stunt. But I'm not ashamed to admit
    it if it'll keep someone else from doing it.
    
    Yeah, the final connection was on the tractor!  Sparks played
    no roll.
    
    Fred

    	From what I remember, deep cycle batteries have a plate
    construction slightly different than cranking batteries. The plate
    construction can be made to be better for cranking, slow drains, or
    something in between (combination of the two). 
    
    	You can buy a battery for deep cycle use, cranking, or a combination 
    of the two. Whatever the case, the sales info on the battery will show
    its intended usage.
    
    	As far as charging them, some chargers have switches to switch to
    two different modes. One of the modes charges the battery slower to
    produce less bubbling (gassing). This mode is for use on sealed (no
    maint.) batteries. For batteries with removable caps this isn't an
    issue. The caps can be removed when charging so as not to build up
    potentially damaging pressure in the battery.
    
    	Ray

    Re .39>
    
    	I think the other replies got off the point of the question raised
    in <.39>. 
    	The first question concerned running the deep cycle battery on an
    outboard alternator. I know of no reason why this wouldn't work
    provided the battery can deliver the necessary cranking current and the
    alternator has reasonable charging capability (both issues are
    someewhat related to the size of the outboard).  
    	The second question concerned depletion of the battery. The
    battery doesn't have to be completely depleted prior to recharge. I
    believe that 50% discharge is the max recommended for all lead acid
    storage batteries. This number can be exceeded, particularly with a 
    deep cycle battery but total depletion isn't necessary.
    
    Paul

    	Bought a boat with two Sears Die Hard batteries in it.  They
    seem to be hooked up together as I can switch my trolling motor from
    12v to 24v with a switch.
    	I have been trying to charge these batteries separately with my
    Sear 2/10 amp charger.  I hooked up the charger to one battery and
    after 24 hours, it seems as though I'm attempting to charge both of
    them.  Should I disconnect all the wiring to these batteries while
    charging?  Bob Puishy's talked about batteries in parallel.  Is this
    what I have here?
    
    	Any help would be great for this novice,
    
    	Rodney

    Hi Rodney,
    
    I have the same set up in my boat (12-24v) and remember reading in
    the owners guide that the jumper wire should be removed when charging
    the batteries.  There should be a jumper wire running from the 
    positive pole of one battery to the negative pole of the other.
    This wire should be disconnected, and the battries charged separately.
    
    Gus