Conference wahoo::fishing

    Dear Mr. BAGEL:
    
    	Yesterday I replied to REEL PROBLEMS .6 this may be of some
    help to you. To be honest (for once) I still use an old AmBASSador
    and an old SPEED-SPOOL, Love them both.
    
    
    	BUT!!! I would rather use a spinning rig. As long as I change
    my line often. Although: in stumps or rocks I use my bait casting
    equip. (DINNER WINCH, STUMP PULLER,)
    
    
    
    				BUCKETMOUTH

    Rich, except for the level wind, a Penn 970 sounds like what your
    looking for.  Like all of the Penn mid quality reels its almost
    bullet-proof.  Mine has been dunked in the surf many times in the
    past three years.  The only maintenance I do on it is a washdown
    after each trip and an ocassional shot of WD-40.  It also gets an
    annual teardown, cleaning and lube.  The (reel) test is to take
    the side plates off in the store and look at the quality of the
    gears, shafts and bearings.  The differences become very obvious
    when they are side by side.  BTW I've only found one tackle shop
    that is willing to do this.  The only other thing about the 970
    that I would change is the retrive ratio.  It is a little too fast
    for me.  It's OK for blues up to about 15 lbs. but it starts to
    become a lot of work for bigger fish.
    
    PS I thought real surfcasters had educated thumbs and didn't need
       level wind.
    
       Rich, if you want to borrow it to try it out let me know.  I
    won't be using it until the fall when I start using live eels.

       I prefer spinning reels and have always used Penn. I've had a
    couple of 704Z's and I don't think i'd use anything else now.
                                             Denny

    re: .2
    
    JoeD. - Thanks for the reponse, but I think the 970 is significantly
    		larger than what I want. I currently have a Penn Beach
    		Master matched up with a 8.5 ft antique (Grampa's rod-
    		still has the agate guides!) and (of course) a Squidder
    		on the 11.5
    	    The rod I have is the conventional equivalent of a medium/
    		light spinner. With the smaller plugs, I want the added
    		control of conventional. Since this is going to be my
    		"after work" outfit, weight is a prime consideration.
    
    	    BTW...my right thumb is very educated...but my left thumb
    		  is very lazy!
    
    re:.3 ,  I agree with going with Penn ... other than my fly reel
                  and a couple of antiques, everything in the collec-
    		  tion is Penn. 
    		BUT I WANT CONVENTIONAL !
    
    Any body from the Gulf Coast out there?? You guys do a lot of
    		"poppin'"!
    
    re. 1   Hmmmm... AMbassADEURs.....

    
    
    Ambassadeur line for 87
    
    1021 plus 		1022plus
    8.4 oz              9.0 
    4.7:1 ratio   	4.7:1 ratio
    130 yds/10lb momo   170 yds/12lbs
    
    both  have many too many too list   BP $86.94
    with a spare spool. (graphite frame)
    
    800 series
    
    821			822
    10.2oz		10.5oz
    4.7:1  		4.7:1
    120yds/14		195yds/12lbs
    $71.97		$72.97
    both graphite frame and free spare spool
    
    500 series
    
    521		522		523
    9.5oz	10oz		11oz
    4.7:1	4.7:1		4.7:1
    120/14lbs	195yds/14	300yds/12
    $58.88	$59.99		$59.99
    all graphite and free spare spool
    
    300 series
    
    321		322		323
    ALMOST SAME AS 500 BUT NOT GRAPHITE
    52.90	$55.87		$57.97
    
    5000 SERIES (the old guys)
    
    5000	6000		4500c		5000c		6500c
    9.5oz	10.6oz		8.9oz		9.5oz		10.6oz
    4.7:1	4.7:1		4.7:1		4.7:1		4.7:1
    195yds/12	300lbs/12	225yds/12lb	225yds/12lb	325lbs/12
    $39.97	$44.97		$43.97		$43.97		$51.97
    
    If you want I can photo copy the two pages with all the details
    too much to type!!
    
    Bassin Bob.
    
    p.s. I have the old xlt plus which is the 521 plus nice reels and
    I also have the 821 little bigger and stuffer but nice.
    

    Have you actually looked at the 970? I have been using one for
    a couple of years now and has worked out very well. It also is
    much lighter than any of my spinning gear. As I recall it is
    very similar in size and weight to my fathers old "squidder".
    I guess it all depends on how you define "heavy".
    
    Wayne

    Maybe I should give some clarification to the conditions under which
    I plan to use this reel. 
    
    I DO NOT plan to use this reel in the "high surf".
    
    I DO plan to use this reel on those days with a surf of less
    than 2 ft. 
    
    I DO plan to use the reel for casting from the bay shore line or
    when I am wading in the bay.
    
    I DO plan to use it once or twice a season from a boat drifting
    for fluke.
    
    No offense guys, but I have seen the 970. It is a fine piece of
    machinery, and I will probably replace one of my other reels with
    one. I want something to replace a 940!
    
    Keep the suggestions coming.
    
    Oh Yeah.  re: -1  Thanks much for this mini catalog!!!!! 

    Well....
    I ended up buying the Ambassadeur XL2 last Friday on the way home
    from work. Right after dinner I retired to the basement, filled
    up the spool with 12# line, and got all my tackle ready so I could
    head for the beach at "0'dark:30". Boy, I bet I woke up the whole
    town when the wagons tailgate cut the top 20 inches off that rod.
    
    Oh, well back to the winding bench.
    

    	I have a question about salt water reels in general and this
    looked like about the closest applicable note without creating another
    one.
    
    	Last year I went on an overnight deep sea trip with my father
    and a friend and I thought we did pretty good until I had seen what
    the mates/captain had got. Even with them putting out bait, playing
    with the anchor, untangling lines, etc., and they still outfished
    us almost 2 to 1. When I mentioned this to one of the mates, he
    replied a big reason is the reel. The rentals we used were approx.
    3:1 retrieve and the mates/captain had approx. 5:1 retrieve. At
    the time it seemed logical as they could theoretically reel the
    fish in almost twice as fast. 
    
    	My question is this, are all salt water 5:1 reels roughly equal?
    To further clarify, with the above 3:1 retrieve reels it was difficult
    to reel in even a 7-8lb. fish. Wouldn't it be more/very difficult with
    the 5:1 reels or do they somehow provide more leverage ?????????
    
    	To get more specific, I am looking at the following:
    
    Triton SpeedMaster Levelwind (TSM-200FS) 5.2:1 retrieve 20#/300yds
    $49.99 in Gander Mountain catalog

    Penn 320 GTI 4.5:1 20#/325yds capacity - $44.97 in Bass Pro catalog
    
    Daiwa Sealine Levelwind 5:1 20#/280 capacity - $46.99 in Gander
    Mountain catalog
    
    Ryobi "S" series SLH220 5.2:1 20#/240 capacity - $47.99 and the -
    		     SLH320 5:1 25#/290 capacity - $49.99 in Gander
    Mountain catalog

    	Would these be good reels for deep sea bottom fishing (i.e.
    cod, cusk, pollack, haddock, etc.) ? 
    
    	I didn't notice what the mates/captain were using but they said
    they were expensive. The above reels don't seem that expensive ?
    I guess that's why I question them. Maybe they meant expensive relative
    to the rentals ?
    
    	Any input would be appreciated as I want to put an outfit together
    for a trip in late May.
    
    	RAYJ
    

Ray,

Although it would seem that the higher gear ratio reels would not have as 
much "power" as the lower ratio reels (which is really true), I think the 
factor that really comes into play is the speed at which slack line is 
retrieved after you pump the fish.  In most cases, when deep sea fishing, 
and even with smaller fish, you pump the fish and then reel down on it.  The 
high speed reels will retrieve the line much faster and therefore, gets the 
fish to the surface faster.

I also know that when fishing 200-300 feet down, it takes a LOT more 
cranking on a 3:1 reel than a 5:1 and you can easily get arm-weary turning 
the handle.  A hi-speed reel will help minimize this.

Joe

    	I'm going to start flag waving again so bear with me. All my
    salt water reels are Penn. I must admit that I have been tempted
    by some of the imports but I find the Penns are competative in both 
    price and quality. Some of the imports do offer some neat features
    but since I have some very old Penns still fishing flawlessly I don't 
    think I want to change.
    	My old standby is a 4/0 Special Senator (Model 114H ?) I use it for
    everything from Mackerel to Sharks. I think it has a either a 4.5
    or 5 to 1 ratio.
    I do like the high speed retrieve and as Joe said it doesn't cost
    much on the power end because you will be pumping the fish. The
    4/0 size is overkill if you just want to bottom fish but if you
    want an all around rig its extra capacity can come in handy. Also
    the 3/0 Special Senator (model 113H ?) would be more than enough
    for what you want and I think you can find them on sale for less
    money than the ones that you mentioned (I picked up a second 4/0
    this year for $42 so the 3/0 should be available for less than that.)
    	I am not as familiar with the newer model numbers ( any model
    numbers for that matter) but the newer Penns seem to be as good
    as the old standbys and the pressure from offshore has caused them
    to get into the newer materials as well. I'm sure that the Penn model
    you mentioned will do the job. 
    
    Paul  

    A few corrections to paul's notes and my own flag waving. When in
    the salt go PENN, simple and no questions about it. The high speed
    4/0 is a
    113H and has about a 3.1:1 ratio where the regular 113 has a 2:1
    (do not buy a regular 113). Thy also make a 4/0 with an anodized
    aluminum spool that is lighter in weight, but the 113H is the BEST
    all around salt water reel built for cod, pollock, trolling for
    blues and you can get away with it for small tuna. I have a 113H
    that is 9 years old which I just rebuilt with the new HT100 drag
    washers and it is as good as new. This reel is 59.99 at
    MAC's in NJ (I have ordered several reels from them and the
    service has been exellent). The 114H is the 6/0 which I just
    bought, it will be used for both cod and yellowfin with 50lb
    test.
    
    Bruce

	Well there I go again - forgetting the details. I'm glad Bruce is 
around to correct my errors.  I guess I got carried away with the gear 
ratios but I knew my Special Senator was significantly faster than the 
regular Senator. (3.25 vs 2 to 1). 
	I did look up the model numbers last night and verified that I knew 
which Penn reply .9 was refering to. I don't have any experience with level 
wind reels (Isn't that what God invented thumbs for? :^) ). But the 320 GTi
looks like a good rig. The one piece graphite frame and the Titanium line 
guide should result in a very light, very strong reel that won't wear out 
in a hurry and it should be even more resistant to the salt.

		<NEW SUBJECT - REEL FANTASIES>

	All this talk has me looking in the Penn catalogue again. I use 50# 
class rigs when I fish for sharks. I currently have two 6/0 Senators and I 
use the old 4/0 as the third rig. For big game I really would like a lever 
drag so my next reel will probably be an International Senator or a 40GLS 
(If I can swing a second mortgage). 

			<EPILOG>

	It seems that the increased competition in the salt water reel industry
has some good effects on the product lines. Penn is offering some new models, 
with new features and in new materials. I think that we will see more graphite
bodies, lever drag reels like the 40GLS in the near future. Perhaps there 
actually will be lower cost alternatives to the very pricey Internationals 
soon. Won't that be great.

Regards,
Paul

    Paul,
    
    I talked to a PENN rep and he said they would probably be making
    the graphite lever drag in a 6/0 size in the next year or so. This
    would make a nice 50# class outfit. The 4/0 size now available has
    a lower capacity than the 113H. Also all though I am completely
    happy with PENN, shimano is making some good looking lever drags.
    MAC's shows a Shiimano 80W for $350, I believe the capacity is
    around 1000 yrds of 80. They have a 50W for $250 which is $50 less
    than the PENN 50TW. Their new 2 speed beastmasters also look
    impressive.
    
    Bruce

    	I pulled out my 87 full Bass Pro catalog and they had more of
    a write up on the Penn 320 GTI indicating it was made to handle
    King salmon, trout, stripers, and pike. It looks as if it may work
    out but I also saw another Penn that was not in the sale catalog
    that looks ideal for what I want.
    
    Penn Jigmaster (505HS) 5:1 retrieve, 30#/275 yd. capacity for $45.97
   
    They also had the 500L which holds 30/275 and is 4:1 with a black
    anodized aluminum spool (same spool as 505HS) and the 500M which holds 
    30/300 and is 4:1 with a stainless steel spool. Both of these are
    only $31.97.
    
    These appear to be multi-purpose reels (i.e. surf and boat) which
    may be desireable as I am in the market for a new surf outfit also.
    I may just be able to get a new boat rod and use my existing surf rod
    and just change the reel from one pole to the other.

    There is a combo package that has the 500L with either a 7' (20-50lb
    line, 1-6 oz. lure) or a 6�' (17-50lb, 3/4-3 oz) Power-Stick for
    $56.87. Sounds OK but aren't cod jigs 16 or 17 oz. ??????????????
    Also, is 7' a little to long for a boat rod ????????????
    
    The level wind feature is OK but not a must. It is also just one more thing
    that can break. Usually dependability and simplicity are synonomous
    when your talking salt water (at least in my experiences anyway).

    Looking at the rod prices, I can see where the $expense$ can come
    from in a salt water outfit. I know this rods are a tangent so I'll 
    start another note to discuss the whole outfit (i.e. rods and reels).

    Ray, The Jigmaster would probably be your best bet. This has been
    around for ages as the 500. The variations (500hs, 500L, etc) are
    improvemnts/specializations based on a common theme. I'm not 100%
    sure, but I think the jigmaster is a boat-riding-son-of-a-Squidder.
    One suggestion though. If you do plasn to use this reel from the
    beach and boat, invest in an extra spool, preferably the aluminum
    one. The stainless and plated brass can be a bear to thumb. Also,
    you typically don't need as heavy a line from shore. If I'm not
    mistaken, this series of reel is set up with "1 screw take-down"
    for easy spool change/service.
    
    Re:12
    Bruce, I would consider you lucky in getting the good prices/service
    from Mac's. I have been visiting that shop since they opened, many
    years ago. I have never been impressed with them, sometimes they
    are down-right aggravating. Last month my Dad was shopping for a
    new Penn 710Z. Mac had it advertised (in the Fisherman) for $32.99,
    and the ad said the prices were good until April 1. (this was about
    Mar.20). When we stopped at Mac's, (on Mar.22) the price quoted
    over the counter was $36.99. Mentioning the ad only made the higher
    price firmer. We ended up at Julian's B&T, paid $33.00 and they
    filled the spool with 12# Trilene (at No charge). Jersey does, howver
    have two good sources for reels: Fisherman's {something} in Ship
    Bottom (advertizes regularly in the Fisherman) and Har-Lee Rod in
    Jersey City. I have had good to excellant dealings with both, in
    person and via mail.

    Rich,
    
      Sorry to hear your bad experience. I have ordered an PENN 6/0 and
    50TW (actually my wife ordered the international) and had no
    problem with price or prompt service. There adds are the lowest
    price around that I have found (I now have a catalogue).
    
    Bruce

    	What is supposed to be the purpose of the counter weights on
    the handle of some salt water reels ???? 

    RAYJ

    RE -1
    			BALANCE?

    Re. -1 & -2
    
    Balance while paying out line with the drag still engaged can be
    important. During a drift where you want the bait still in the water,
    any imbalance can cause the bait to have a small jerky motion that
    might spook 'um. My Penn 49H has this mode and the crank is counter
    balanced.  The smooth delivery of line is noticeble.
    
    Jerry
      

re:-1,-2,-3
    
    I was being a little bit sarcastic (maybe), but a balanced handle
    is important even on retrieves or fighting a fish. Typically the
    only reels WITHOUT counterbalanced handles are the big "International"
    types. Without the counter balance, the normal handheld outfit would
    'wobble' like crazy when reeling 'at speed'. This isn't needed on
    the above mentioned reels since they are 'expected' to be used in
    a chair, or at least with a belt and/or harness, all of which usually
    have gimbals that prevent 'wobble'.
    
    Rich

    
     I recently purchased a new Shimano surf rod. With it, I also got
    a Shimano 450 bait-runner spinning reel. The reason I bought that
    reel is that it fit the rod size-wise very well. It holds about
    275 yards of 14 lb mono, which is what I have spooled it with. The
    problem (maybe) is that the reel was a freshwater series reel. Does
    this mean I am going to have corrosion problems with it? Did I err
    in buying this particular reel? It has a very smooth drag which
    I figured I'd need since I was only using 14 lb line. What sort
    of special precautions should I take to preserve my new reel?
    
    The Doctah--

    The best thing you can do is wash it in fresh water after each use
    and give it a good cleaning before you put it up for the winter.
    
    Always remember to release the drag after each use. Keeping drags
    tight will just compress the washers.
    
    Capt. Codfish
    

    	I just received my 1989 Midland Tackle catalogue and saw "star-
    set" kits. These kits fit Penn and other reels and cost about $15.
    There was no description of what they are. The illustration showed
    a handle, a star and not much else. Does anyone know what they are? 
    I am hoping that they convert standard star drags to the sort of 
    star/lever drag like the Shimano "fighting star". If that's what they 
    are I may want to use them. Anyone out there with knowledge of or 
    experience with these kits?
    
    Paul

My cousin is the NE region Silstar rep. Last weekend I got to play with
samples of their new titanium-graphite lever drag trolling reels. He had
three different sizes, the TG35, TG36, and TG40. They go from just below
a Penn 3/0 size to maybe a 4/0 size. The TG40 has harness lugs, the
smaller two do not.

They all come with removable rod clamps, similar to what you get with
Senators. 

The TG35 looks like the right size for salmon or laker trolling. The TG36
is only slightly larger in diameter, but has a wider spool. It looks to
me like a nice bluefish size. The TG40 should handle ANY size blue, and
maybe school tuna - 30 to 50 pound size?

Looks like 5 disks in the drag. The lever has a stop which is spring
loaded; you can depress the stop then advance the lever beyond that
point. There is a knurled knob to adjust the amount of drag that the
lever is applying. 

The crank lever has three separate shaft holes to allow you to choose
three different leverage points. The retrieve ratio is 4.2:1. They are
very light, yet have a substantial feel to them. I forgot the weights.

He thinks they will list in the $60 to $80 range. He gave me one.
I couldn't believe it. It looks great on one of the new 20#-#50 line
weight rods I recently acquired. 

Lookout Mr. Blue!

    Capt. Bligh,
    
      Think your cousin could use anyone to field test these new reels
    on Cod and blue and the other salt water foes here in the NE? I
    would be interested in seeing these reels and what they can do.
    
    Capt. Codfish

Well, Cap, I can sure mention it to him. 

I think I'm not a good tester for him, because if I look at something and
my intuition tells me it won't do the job, I just turn it down. Why screw
up a fishing trip? 

For instance, he reps a shot-filled plastic anchor;  Crab Claw or
something like that; he wanted me to try it on my small boat. I took one
look at it and said no thanks. Why lose an anchor line if the thing gets
hung in the rocks, which I think it will? And if I'm anchoring, I want
the boat to stay there; I _might_ count on it, and what if it just
doesn't hold? I'll stick to mushrooms, navys and danforths, thank you.

I try lots of lures for him, and of course, Silstar rods. They are super.
Aftco rollers, Fuji guides and reel seats, good stuff.  I no longer use
anything else. I get an occasional "tester" then I buy a pair of the ones
I like best. Yeah, buy.

I don't think the lever drag reels would be good for groundfishing. I use
Penn 113H and 113s on my cod rods because they hold enough 50# dacron to
drop a 35 oz Vike down 300'. *

The lever drag reels are designed for mono. They should be excellent for
bluefish. I tried - and DON'T like - the Daiwas. But there's gotta be
something with more backbone than spinning rods for trolling at speed, so
I'm going to try these lever drags. This summer will tell. C'mon summer.


      *  {I don't catch many fish down at 300'+, it's just for the
          exercise, mind you.   ;^)             }
        

	I'm looking into buying a deep-sea fishing setup, and I had my
	eye on a Penn Senator Special 113 reel.  Price around $52 on sale.
	It has a 4/0 ratio.

	Any opinions on this reel ?

	How about the gear ratio ?  
	
	I've been told conflicting stories, some saying the higher ratio
	lets you reel in faster from the depths (which is true), and a 
	lower ratio gives ya more power (also true).  Sometimes on those
	reel deep (pun intended;-)) trips, my hand cramps up and literally
	is frozen for a few seconds.  This is using Penn reels on rentals,
	with I think a 4/0 ration.  Maybe I need to get out more and tone up 
	the muscles ?  Is 4/0 a good ratio ?   Any opinions ?

	Thanks,
	Ken

    Perhaps you have the ratio wrong? A 4:0 ratio says to me that with no
    turns of the handle you will take up 4 turns on the spool.  Do you mean
    a 4:1?

re:                     <<< Note 1205.1 by BTOVT::ALEXANDER >>>
>                                 -< Penn reel >-
>
>    Perhaps you have the ratio wrong? A 4:0 ratio says to me that with no
>    turns of the handle you will take up 4 turns on the spool.  Do you mean
>    a 4:1?

	;-) Yup, _real_ easy to pull 'em in!   I must mean 4:1, but it says
	4/0 on the reel.  Perhaps I'm confusing it with the size ?  It does
	have a 4:1 pull ratio.

	/Ken

    Ken,
    	Read note 409, starting with reply .9. There's a lot of discussion
    about the reel you are considering.
    Paul
    
    BTW - 4/0 is the size. 

re:                   <<< Note 1205.3 by DNEAST::OKERHOLM_PAU >>>
>                               -< Read note 409 >-

	Great!  Thanks...

	/Ken

	re: -.*

	Thanks for all the info on Penn reels, gear ratio's, etc!  It's
	amazing that the Penn 113H, the exact reel I'm looking at, is
	described here in detail.  I'm confident now.  Spag's, the Fair,
	and Dick's Tackle, watch out, here I come!

	Thanks Paul Okerholm for pointing this note out...

	Picked up a nice Penn 113H reel last night, now I need a rod.
	I'd like to get a rod for deep sea bottom fishing with bait and
	also for jigging.

	I was looking at the Penn Slammer, Penn Senators, but they seem
	too flexible for jigging.  

	Any comments ?

	/Ken

	I don't know much about particular models but you seem to know
what you need...something with enough spine to transmit the jigging motion 
with minimal loss caused by the flexing of the rod. You'll also want something
fairly long by boat rod standards (6 - 6 1/2') so you can impart more motion 
to the jig.  
	My favorite rig is a Shakespeare Ugly Stick with the 113H Special 
Senator reel. It is one of the first of the Ugly Stick line and I don't even 
know if the model is still available. It has to be at least 8 - 10 years old. 
Its about 6' long and is relatively stiff. Its fairly heavy by todays standards 
but its functions very well. The newer designs seem to have managed to keep 
the stiffness while significantly reducing the weight.
	I think the best way to shop for your rod is to hit the various sporting
goods stores and flex the rods there until you find one that feels right. I like
a rod that flexes relatively evenly over its length as apposed to one that may 
have too light a tip.
	I'm sure that you will hear from others in the conference, there is at 
least one noter that makes custom rods. 
Whatdayasay Bruce? 

Paul 

re:                   <<< Note 409.30 by DNEAST::OKERHOLM_PAU >>>

>	I don't know much about particular models but you seem to know
>what you need...something with enough spine to transmit the jigging motion 
>with minimal loss caused by the flexing of the rod. You'll also want something
>fairly long by boat rod standards (6 - 6 1/2') so you can impart more motion 
>to the jig.  

I've been to several different places looking for rods, but only the Penn 
Slammer #2771 (I think) impresses me.  Price around $66.  It's 7.5 feet long 
with real nice quality guides, with a roller guide at the tip.  Relatively 
light which I like. The Penn catalog says it's a good match for the 113H, and 
that it's good for trolling, bottom fishing, and jigging.  The only thing 
holding me back is that it has a bit of flex, ie, it seems like it has 
slightly too much bend for jigging.  I'd like a rod that I can use for jigging,
bottom-bait fishing, as well as party boats for blues.   Perhaps I'm looking 
for the impossible all-around ocean rod ?  Maybe I need one long stiff rod for
jigging, and the Penn Slammer for the other kinds of fishing.  But then I'd
need 2 reels, unless I want to use the 113H for both, but switching it seems
like it would be a pain,

Most places have cheapo jigging/deep-sea rods for like $20-$30 with cheap 
guides, etc.  I want something that will last.  Maybe I need to check closer
to shore, like Salisbury, Newburyport, Gloucester, etc...

>	My favorite rig is a Shakespeare Ugly Stick with the 113H Special 
>Senator reel. It is one of the first of the Ugly Stick line and I don't even 
>know if the model is still available. It has to be at least 8 - 10 years old. 
>Its about 6' long and is relatively stiff. Its fairly heavy by todays standards 
>but its functions very well. The newer designs seem to have managed to keep 
>the stiffness while significantly reducing the weight.

I was looking at one of these, and it looked like a nicely built piece.  It 
was more like 8 feet long, definitely a nice jogging rod, but a bit too long 
and stiff for bottom-bait fishing and party-boat blues.  I haven't ruled it out
though!

>	I'm sure that you will hear from others in the conference, there is at 
>least one noter that makes custom rods. 
>Whatdayasay Bruce? 

Yeah, any available ?  Where do ya live ?

Thanks,
/Ken

       The tackle shop at Yankee Fleet in Gloucester has custom boat
    rods. Give em a call.
                                               Denny

I went to Zyla's last night (Merrimack, NH) to play with casting reels.
I've decided that this is the year to buy a serious reel. I ended up with
reels all over the counter, with a half-dozen or so mounted on rods.
Didn't buy one.

I'm very right-handed. Been casting spinning reels with my right hand,
reeling with my left hand, for a long, LONG time. First problem: for
every "left-handed" reel in stores, there's four dozen right-handed
reels. Not all reels are made for left-hand cranking, and even when they
are, few stores stock them.

But I tried two anyway, in between trying ten "otherhand" models. Do you
guys just bite the bullet and cast with your right hand, switch the rod
to your left hand, and crank with your right?

Reels... from zero ball bearings to five ball bearings... 3.3:1 to 6.5:1
gear ratios. "Rippin, Flippin, Pitchin, Bustin, Ultra this and that." The
counter man (at Zyla's) favorite reel was labeled "two oil-injected ball
bearings" on the side plate. But when I broke the reel down and looked
inside, the ball bearings are not on the spool shaft, they're obviously
somewhere in the gear mechanism. Are the ball bearings to help *cast*, or
to help *crank*? His favorite had a bronze bushing on the non-crank side of
the spool. Will that reel last? Will it cast? 

The BASS Pro catalog shows one line of reels that have the spool itself
supported by ball bearings on the axle; most reels have the axle
supported by the bearings. Is there hard evidence out there whether this
is successful? I think the Abu or Ambassadeur reels have this feature.

Is the thumb bar better than the release that's on the side plate? I have
a couple of years' experience with Silstar reels with thumb bars, and
that seems better than having to move my thumb from the side button to the
spool to thumb the line during the cast.

I favor smaller lures and line; 1/4 to 3/8 oz, and 6 to 10lb. (Last
summer I experimented with the DuPont 7/20 flat line). Many of the reels
seem to be set up for heavier lures and line. I'd like to fish worms with
my casting outfit, but end up casting bigger crankbaits and spinnerbaits,
in favor of using a spinning reel for worms (due to the lighter weight of
worms).  Have any of you found a clearly better reel for the lighter
side? 

A guy in the barber shop recommended the Shimano 2000-series (I noticed
that there are a few Shimano models with 2000 in the name). Big bucks. Do
I have to pay a C-note for a reel? I had been looking in the $50 to $75
range.

Cabin fever is setting in.

Art

Buy the Ambassadeur (Abu Garcia) 521 plus XLT with left-hand retrieve.  I paid
$49.99 on sale at BPS (See 1990 Master Catalog p.62) normally 69.99.  It's
4.7:1 and it's LEFT HANDED!!  I have the same problem...I'd like to get a 6.x:1
retrieve with left-handed crank but I can't find one.  

As Don Mac would say, "Reel Men crank right-handed"


Tim.

ps: Harbormaster loves his left-handed Abu 521-series as much as I love mine!

    Art, just buy an Abu 521. It comes with Thumb bar (which is better than
    the button on the frame - easy to use) and an extra spool. For the $$
    you can't beat it, and it comes with extra spool.
     I now use expensive Shimano's, but they ain't that much better, I'm
    just an equipment freak. The Abu has a lifetime warranty too. BTW, how
    did you like the 7/20 ? And I'd also recommend using 10 lb minimum test
    line on a baitcaster. Drags are stiffer and the light line may get
    behind the spool. 
    
    --The Skoal Bandit

    Yes, I think you'll find that most fisherman using baitcasters cast
    with their right hand, then switch the rod to the left hand and crank
    with the right.  That's why most baitcasting reels have right
    handed cranks.  
    
    Switching hands is not a big deal.  It'll quickly become part of your
    natural cast.
    
    I have baitcasters from Shimano, Quantum, Daiwa and ABU.  I have 3 ABUs
    and like them the best - since they have lifetime warrantees.  Most of
    your major brands will offer a quality product.  My Shimano has been
    the most problem prone and I have not been satisfied with Shimano's
    customer support (over a rod issue). 
    
    5:1 gear ratios are probably becoming the most popluar.  I like them.
    
    You don't have to spend big buck for a baitcaster.  You can get a good
    one for around $50 or less on sale. 
    
    I prefer the thumbars over the buttons.  And I don't use anything less
    than 12lb test on a baitcaster.  I use spinning rods for light line 
    and light tackle. 
    
    donmac

    	Looking in the Chistmas Bass Pro catalog I saw an Ambassador Mag Plus
    that comes in a left/right hand models with 5.1:1 retrieve and the
    thumb bar for $29.95.
    
    	RAYJ

    Art
    
    I have been using an Abu XLT Synchro left hand for a year and this year
    got a Shimano Beastmaster left hand for Christmas.
    
    I have absolutely no complaints with the ABu I ended up using that 90%
    of my fishing time, however I got the Shimano because my brother lent
    me his and I liked the way it felt and cast.
    
    The Abu has a thumb bar which is nice because your thumb is right on
    the line when you cast.  I thought it was a big deal, but found the
    side bar on the Shimano didn't cause any birdnesting so I think thats
    really a personal preference.  The Abu is a good reel, but I think the
    Shimano line is defintely more aesthetically appealing.
    
    As far as the ball bearing question, when I asked that question all I
    got was grief from our so called noting experts and none of them really
    answered my question.  I wrote a letter to Shimano asking them what it
    means and when they respond I will post their note.
    
    so stay with a left retrieve if thats what your comfortable with.  I
    did and the choice or reels was not that limited.
    
    Brian

    re:-1

    	Brian,

    	There are at least two reasons you didn't get an answer on the ball 
    bearing question. 

    	One, the ball bearings can be used in different places on different 
    reels (i.e. crank, spool, spool axle).

    	Two, an illustrated parts breakdown should allow you to see how
    they are used on the reel you're interested in and come to some
    conclusions.

    	I suspect writing to Shimano may only tell you part of the answer
    you're looking for as other reels may have them in other places for
    different purposes.

    I looked at the diagrams and could only find one of the ball bearings
    on my Abu and one on the Shimano.  How or why they are located where
    they are wasn't clear.  I understand what your saying about it depends
    on the reel, but what are the basic differences and why?
    
    Brian

    re.43
    >>As far as the ball bearing question, when I asked that question all I
    >>got was grief from our so called noting experts and none of them really
    >>answered my question.  

    Feeling rather hostile today, are we? 8^)
    
    Bri, mellow out.  Based on the 2 replies that you got to your question 
    in 832.24, I don't think your being quite fair.  
    
    True, the first reply was a typical slammaster reply, giving you a little 
    grief, but trying to offer some advice as well. 
    
    The other reply (attached below) was from me where I attempted to offer 
    some help.  
    
    -donmac - who does not consider himself an 'expert'
    
    ================================================================================
Note 832.26                How 'Bout Some "Reel" Info?                  26 of 26
RANGER::MACINTYRE "Terminal Angler"                   8 lines  17-DEC-1990 16:31
                            -< look at the diagram >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Brain, look at the parts diagram that came with your reel to see
    exactly where they live.  Ballbearings will make the reel 'smoother' 
    to operate.  5 ball bearings will distribute the work more than 2 ball 
    bearings so the real should be smoother and the bearings should last
    longer  - and stainless steel ball bearings will last longer than 
    graphite.
    
    donmac - a s/w engineer who doesn't do h/w but can offer an opinion 

I looked at the 521 in the catalog, then dug out the Christmas sale
catalog. They have the right-handed model on sale for 49.99, all right. I
guess I'd have to call them to see if the LH model is the same sale
price.

Re: bearings - I believe a mechanical engineer would tell me that the
spool shaft is *really* riding on the film of oil, not on the ball
bearing that I was looking for in that Quantum reel. I'd like to know
whether a reel with spool shaft ball bearings casts better than one where
the spool shaft rides "on the film of oil" on a sleeve bearing. 

I have two Mitchell 300s that I bought in 1958; I don't think they have
ANY ball bearings.

I do see one major difference in how you would handle the rod & reel.
With my present RH setup (boron rod, trigger-type grip) I cast with my
right hand, shift the rig to my left hand, where I *hold the reel body in
the palm of my left hand* and reel with my right.

When I tried the LH setup I found myself casting with my right hand, then
simply bringing my left hand over to begin cranking. I continued to hold
the reel essentially in the casting position: trigger finger around the
trigger, etc. It's totally different from the preceding process.

I might mention that my very first rod had a straight handle, no trigger,
and an Ocean City level-wind casting reel with braided nylon line. This
was 1948. I was eight. So now I've dated myself.

Art

The decision has been made easier. The Spring Cabella's catalog arrived
Friday, and the 521 is $39.95.

I had another thought connected with the RH--LH question.

Most casting reel documentation advises you to roll your wrist when you
cast, so that during the time-of-flight of the lure the reel spool axis
is vertical. When I cast with my right hand, with a RH reel, doing this
causes the left-hand side case of the reel to be on the bottom, so the
spool bearing in that side is supporting the spool. This bearing, then,
should have the most influence on the casting distance.

If I do the same thing with a LH reel, the crank and gearcase side will
be on the bottom. Will this increase the friction on the spool?

Do you all roll your wrists during the cast?

Art

    Never really thought about it, but now that you mention it, when I 
    cast a (RH) baitcaster w/ my right hand, I do pivot my wrist to the
    outside, which would position the right side of the reel downward, 
    probably not vertical, but maybe close.  
    
    donmac

    When I cast using my LH baitcaster I rotate the reel handles down. 
    I learned to do that based on a note in this file somewhere. It really
    cuts down the birdnesting for some reason.
    
    Brian

It seems to me that the Penn 40 GLS can be used as a general all around 
salt water reel capable of trolling for blues or going after smaller marlin 
or yellow fin.

Has anyone had any experience with it?  What rods have you matched it up 
with?

Carl