Conference wahoo::fishing

                       <    GO ELECTRIC    >
    
    HAVE YOU EVER tried to start a gasoline motor in a canoe and the
    motor won't start.the canoe starts rocking and the next thing you
    know is that your swimming with the fish.i like electric because
    it is less frustrating,less noisy,and is lighter to carry.if you
    like to troll, its best with a electric with a variable speed thrust
    also the constant sound of the trolling motor has been known to
    attract fish.gasoline can be a problem if you get it on your hands
    it might meen the differance of you catching any fish.you will also
    find that trolling motors are far cheaper.a 20-25 lb thrust should
    let you go as fast as you want in a canoe.if your the type to fish
    long hours 10-16.then i would suggest that you get a maximizer
    also.buy the biggest deep cell you can find and match the motor
    accordingly.what i mean by this is that each motor will eat up a
    surtain amount of juice according to the lb thrust.try to find a
    motor that does more lb thrust than than juice.for instance mine
    is twenty lb thrust and at twenty it only uses 18 amps of juice.
    i hope this helps some.
    
    
    
    
                                          creator of "tobacc"

     I own a 15' Mansfeild Canoe and a 14lb thrust sigma!  I picked the
motor up two years ago for $50.00 at Zyla's.  I love having the motor!
I've own a canoe since the age of 15 and I don't know what I did before
I got the motor!  I never use my anchor!  I just fish the shore line and
when I drift away from the HOT spot I just flick the switch and it moves 
me right back to spot I want to fish!  They are great to have when you 
hang a lure up and you need to get to it!  If you've never tried holding
a rod and trying to steer a 15'canoe with one hand on the paddle against
a choppie water surface you haven't lived!  When I launch the canoe,
instead of paddling to the desired spot I lock the motor down so I'm
headed in the general area then I have time to rig my rods before getting
to the spot.  Electric is the way to go! I extended the cable coming out
of the motor which allows me to place the battery under the front seat!
This helps keep the front of the canoe in the water!


							John 

    re .2
    Motors are also nice if you just want to take a ride.

    Why not go for a ride!  You weren't catching anything!
    
    					The U boat captian

    I started out a couple of years ago by buying an ESKA 14 lb. thrust
    for my canoe and took it up to the Merrimack River in Hooksett above
    the damn.  The combination of the current and a little headwind
    made upriver travel almost impossible.  I flew down river.  So I
    took it back and stepped up to an ESKA 25 Lb. thrust and now I can
    battle the rapids (well...almost).  With 2 people on board, I can
    still move right along.  I love it!
    
    -Joe-

    I have had both, and for fishing, the electric is *much* better.
    The outboard is much too noisy and clumsy for fishing.
                       
    The only time the outboard worked better was when I was traveling
    a fair distance with 2 people aboard.  When the wife and I wanted
    to go for a joy ride, the power of the outboard won hands down.  
    (although Minn Kota now has 3 and 4hp elecs!)
                           
    That point about trying to start an outboard is a *good* one,
    especially when your alone, REAL tipsy.  An electric is also 
    much more reliable.
         
    If and when you get a larger boat, you can turn the head around
    and slap it up front for a trolling motor.  I bounce mine back and 
    forth between Ol' Stump Jumpa and the canoe all the time.
    
    Don Mac

	I also have tried both an electric and a Gas motor.  I've got an
Evinrude 2hp outboard and a Sigma 12 lb electric.  The only advantage to the
gas engine is that once you're out of juice (gas in this case) it only takes a
few minutes to refill the tank and you're on your way again.   However when you
run out of juice in the electric, you're paddling for a few hours while the
battery recharges. 

	The biggest disadvantage of the gas engine is that you have that 15 -
25 lb off to one side of your canoe (if you're like me and have a standard
stern) and high (above the gunwale) which throws your trim all out of whack. 
My outboard is direct drive (no neutral) so as soon as the engine starts it
gets the canoe moving. This creates some tense moments at times.  Contrastingly
the bulk of the weight of the electric is in the battery and will be low in the
boat, and as pointed out in a previous reply probably up front to help keep
your bow down. 

	I use the gas engine only on calm days when I want to do a lot of
cruising.  The hassle and noise of the gas engine in all other situations just
is not worth it.  I have found in the wind that I would rather fight with a
paddle than screw around with trying to get the engine started under those
conditions. 

	Good luck with your new electric...

					Al

    Thanks for all the replies.  Sounds like electric is the way to
    go.  Are all electric motors pretty good, or are there some I should
    stay away from?
    
    3 and 4hp electrics????  Must take *some* juice to power them.
    
    Mike_L

    	Someone in an earlier reply mentioned a maximizer. These are
    supposed to extend the amount of running time on a battery
    dramatically. They are also not cheap (about $99). The way they
    work is instead of supplying steady current, they send pulses. The
    pulses are so fast, they are not even noticed by the electric motor.
    
    	You may wish to hold off on one of these as I am starting to see 
    electric motors with maximizers built right into them. 
    
    	Some of the new electric motors are really getting upgraded to
    state of the art. I was just looking at Pluegers (sp?). They range
    from 25-50 lb. thrust. They also have a built in battery charge
    indicator, time of day clock, water temp., and stall indicator. These 
    are all LCD displays on the top of the motor head. It also has a built 
    in maximizer. Very sharp looking unit and 50 lb. thrust is impressive. 
    Unless you intend to tow water skiers behind your canoe though, 14-22
    lb. thrust is plenty.
	
    	As far as a motor mount goes, I built my own out of scrap wood.
    It was very easy, very cheap, and saved me about $100. If you want
    more info, send me your mail stop and I'll send you some rough plans.

    RAYJ

      
       I have heard alot of minkota and all good.although i own a diehard,
    i have had no problem with it.I would go with a minkota.They seem
    to be better built and you will find there price range can't be
    beat.they start from aprx.$99-259 and come with all kinds of options
    to suit your needs.I hope this helps.
    
                                           creator of " TOBACC "

    Another reason for electric over gas (that I haven't seen in these
    replys) is that on some ponds gas motors are not allowed..ELECTRIC
    is. Thus more ponds to fish !!!!!!!
    
    stan
    

    You make a good point Stan, one of favorite fishing holes last year
    was one with no gasoline engines allowed since it is owned and operated
    by the MDC.  This is especially great during the summer months when
    there's just too many boats tearing the big lakes up.  You can fish
    all day in a great and peaceful setting.
   
    Mike_L

    	What I'd like to know is on an average, how long will say a
    17lb thrust electic run ,using your average deep cell battery
    and the motor being run at full speed... 
    
    
    
    					JjL
    

    re .13
    
    I can usually get about 6 hours of trolling, with my 15' Coleman
    and 20 lb. Shakespeare set at 2 or 3 depending on the wind. when
    the charge does eventually die, We paddle  back to the truck, start
    it up, disconnect the truck battery and connect the die hard. We
    then have a couple of pops,and fish from shore for about 20 minutes.
    this usaally gets us about 3 more hours of trolling. 
    
    So far its been working like a champ.
    Good luck
    Mike
    

    I've been looking at the new Minn Kota remote control unit -- the
    one that has an electric remote at the end of a wire.  This unit
    is the 65 series motor (28 lb thrust), with built in maximizer and
    the remote control.
    
    The remote control is a small box that allows foot control of the
    steering, and is at the end of about a 20 foot lead.
    
    It looks like this would be a great motor for canoes -- does anyone
    have any experience or thoughts on the subject?
    
    Russ Doty

    REP.13
          acording to the manual i got with either the motor or battery,i
    don't remember which.IT said that i could get 5 hours of trolling
    at 20 lbs thrust and 22 hours at 5 lb thrust.I usually start out
    with a high thrust,maybe 15-20lb to get to were i want to fish then
    i practilly stop it and and drift leaving the thrust at maybe 1-2lb
    thrust and move along the shore that way.I perfer to keep the engine
    running very low so that when you start to drift the wrong way,you
    need only to use your elbow on the steering columm to straighten
    you out again.I normally fish for at least ten hours at a time and
    have not run out of juice yet.I always charge as soon as i get home.
    
    
       ps when does wachussetts open? 
                                                   creator of "tobacc"

    
    I forgot to mention in .16 is that in order to save extra power
    you must have a variable speed not a 3 or 5 speed.with the speeds
    set up for factory specs they will draw a certain amount of amps
    per speed.also with a variable speed you can cut down on the amps you
    use by going as slow as you want providing that it is not too windy.
    I'm not a expert on trolling but i would think that the variable
    speed would serve a better purpose in finding the speed you need
    to be at.from what i have seen trolling motors with fixed speeds
    usually start at 3 or 5lb thrust and when starting these motors
    at 5 lb thrust it may jolt the canoe and scare the crap out of the
    guy that doesn't expect it.

    I've gone 8 hours and longer with my 24 lb thrust ESKA on my canoe
    and still had plenty of juice left for a "high speed" (??) run back
    to the dock.  I use an 80 amp/hour battery and I don't think I've
    ever drained it down more than half way.  Most of my fishing is
    stop 'n go with very few hi-speed runs, so there's very little battery
    drain.
    
    If you plan to do a lot of trolling or travel some distance, I'd
    suggest investing in the 105+ amp/hour batteries.  Although they're
    a little heavier, you'll get about 20-25% additional use per charge
    from it.  For those of you that are considering an electric, DON'T
    skimp on the battery!  And DON'T use a conventional car battery.
    They are designed to provide heavy current drains for short periods
    of time, not lower current drains over sustain periods of time.
    You need to get a battery designated as a "deep cycle" battery.
    A deep cycle battery is specifically designed for elec. motors and
    if properly maintained, can be recharged many, many times.  Car
    batteries can't take repeated recharging.
    
    By the same token, you shouldn't use a deep cycle battery to start
    your gas motor.  It isn't designed to take heavy current drains
    that a starter motor requires.  You can quickly destroy the battery.
    
    -Joe-

    re .17
    
    That's what I like about my Eska...it's variable spped.  I can set
    the speed down to where the prop is just barely turning.  This makes
    it real easy to crawl along or simply hold my position in a head
    wind or current.  It's great!
    
    -Joe- 

    re:13
    	The ball park figures given so far (4-6 hours) are probably
    close. I just got a new deep cycle battery. I was using a car battery
    and getting about 3 hours running time from that. 
    	There are a lot of variables in affect here. Weight of the canoe,
    surface area of the bottom, payload weight, wind conditions, battery
    size (in amps), and motor current draw. The sears diehard's come
    with a little chart on the side and indicate how long each of their
    batteries lasts while drawing 1,5,10,15,20,25, or 30 amps (as I remember).
    This will allow you to select the battery size to fit your needs.
    	Although I did mention I used a regular car battery, this is
    not recommended unless you have a battery that you don't care about.
    Car batteries are not designed for this type of use.
    
    re:15
    	The motor your talking about involves a flat area to mount it.
    It is set up to be bow mounted. You could probably find a way to
    mount it on a canoe but it wouldn't really be worth it. I may be
    mistaken but I only remember that box having steering and an on/off
    switch. If it does not have the speed control also, I wouldn't buy
    it for a regular size boat, never mind a canoe.

    RAYJ

    re.16
    	Wachusetts opens april 1st.....if the ice is out....
    
    Denny

    The point on the type of speed control is a good one...
    For a canoe, I'd reccomend an elec with a variable speed control,
    my 21lb Mercury Thruster is a 5 speed, and the lowest speed is still 
    a bit too much for the canoe. A Maximizer would allow total speed
    control, as well as prolonging battery life, but that's rather costly.

    Don Mac

    Regardless of how long you use your troll motor on any given
    fishing trip its a good idea to throw the battery on the charger
    and bring it back up to the fully charged range! 
    This will help extend the life of the battery;-)!
    
    							John

    I, too have been looking for a motor for my canoe for a while. 
    I have a Merrimack 13' (that I bought while in N.H.) that I use
    to fish out of all the time.  So last nite I toured then entire
    circuit here (K.C., Ks. now) shopping around for a motor and battery,
    using all the aquired knowledge from this note about what to get.
    What I found, in my (wife's) price range was: 1) Sears 20 lb thrust
    VARIABLE speed motor for $149; or for the low end 2) MinKota 35
    (17 lb thrust) for about $88 (but is 4 or 5 speed - not variable).
    The best I found on a medium sized battery was a 105 amp deep cycle
    RV/Marine battery for $44.  
    
    My real question at this point is it worth the extra $60 for the
    variable speed (assuming 20 lb thrust vs 17 lb thrust for a canoe
    isn't critical)?  When I compare the 4 speed range on the MinKota
    to what I have now (paddle, cast, paddle into wind, cast, drop anchor
    to hold position, pull anchor, paddle like crazy, cast, cast....)
    any mechanization has got be wonderful!!  
    
    CAN I ASSUME that 17 lbs vs 20 lbs thrust is negligible?  I figure
    my gross weight (canoe, self, battery, motor, gear) will be around
    400-425 lbs.  I would imagine that 17 lbs of thrust will get me
    across a given distance at a pretty good clip.  
    
    By the way, how fast does one of these electric motors push a canoe
    along?
    
    thanks...   --chas {Flatlander_who'll_be_on_the_lake_come_Sat}
    
    ps: re: note 265 - I bought a Hummingbird 3004 and mounted it on
    a board. I bought two 6v lantern batteries and wired them in series,
    mounted the trasnducer on a 1/2 x 1-1/2 and C-clamped that to the
    side of the canoe...  all works great!  What a difference an LCR
    can make in your fishing!  I would encourage anyone who has not
    used one to budget for one - pronto!  Thanks for feedback from everyone
    on the LCR's...
    
    --chas

    	I fish with a 14 lb. thrust, 3-speed shakespere. I weigh about
    200 lbs. and my friend about 170 lbs.. I fish out of a 15' fiberglass
    canoe and we each bring gobs of tackle along with at least 1 six
    pack of Bud bombers (standard equipt.). The motor pushes us along
    fine. 
    	As far as the variable speed goes, you can only hold against
    a wind if it's blowing constantly. If it's gusting, your still going
    to go forwards and back unless you keep adjusting the motor. I think
    the one big advantage with the variable speed is being able to fine
    tune your trolling speed. If however you just want to be able to
    work slowly up/down a shore line, the 3-5 speed will be fine.
    	Personally, the extra 3 lbs. of thrust and the variable speed
    are not worth it to me. The price on the Minn Kota is a good one
    and I'd take that. The battery price sounds excellent. You won't
    find either much cheaper.
    
    RAYJ
    
    BTW - By next year, I expect the maximizers to be around $70. If
    you really want variable speed, you can always pick up one of these
    and also get the benefit of longer battery life.

    
    ITS always nice to have a little extra power when needed.having
    to little power may be a disavantage.If for some reason you need
    extra power,well you will have it.if you buy the lower lb thrust
    and need extra power your out of luck.the variable speed i think
    you will find handy.In certain circumstances you will prabably not
    want to move very fast along the shore line and thats when the variable
    speed is at its best.for the money you are spending on the 17 lber
    vs the 20 lber is quite a differance and you could buy yourself
    some new gear and wait for next year when the maximizers come down
    in price.the 17lb will be fine for a year and then maybe you might
    want to get more power.the decision is up to you.
      by the way are you talking about the diehard battery.i bought
    the 105 amp and spent $90.the battery weighs 61lbs.I like the way
    it lets you know how much time you got left on it.
    
    
    
                                                    creator of "tobacc"

    I think I mentioned this earlier, but I'll repeat it.  I first started
    out with a 14lb thrust Eska for my 14' Old Town canoe.  The first
    time I tried it was on the Merrimack River above the falls in Hooksett.
    The combination of the current and only a slight headwind made it
    VERY difficult to make much headway up river.  I returned it and
    got a 24lb Eska and it made a BIG difference.
    
    It also has variable speed which I love.  Both DonMac and Cris Fletcher
    bought the 22lb thrust Merc Thrusters, and I know on Cris' canoe
    that even the low speed setting (non-variable) moves the canoe too
    fast for simply trying to "creep" along of fight a head wind.  Chris
    is always turning it off and on to position his canoe.  For a larger
    and heavier boat, it probably would be fine, but for the lightweight
    canoe, variable speed seems to make more sense.
    
    I did build a resistor pack for Cris' Merc to drop the voltage and
    it works pretty good.  Whenever he wants lower speeds, he simply
    clamps it onto the battery post and switches one of the power leads
    to the motor to put it in series.  Once in place, he has 4 low speeds,
    all of which are lower than the normal low speed without it. The
    only problem is that because they are power resistors designed to
    reduce voltage, they do get quite hot, bit at least he can "crawl"
    along.
    
    -Joe-

    There's got to be another way to reduce the speed of an electric
    motor other than using resistors. That heat your feeling is power
    being consumed which could better be utilized by the motor later
    in the day when the battery or batteries are running low. Does any
    one of you electronic wizards out there know a better way of
    accomplishing the same thing without power resistors?
    
    
    				Jim

    	Yup, the other way is the same way the Maximizer does it.  Send
    a variable frequency pulse to an SCR.  Could probably be designed
    without too much effort.  LM555, darlington pair, and SCR, box to
    house it in, heat sink, cables and clamps. Probably around $25.00
    in parts.  (A lot of cost of the Max. is in safety and testing.)
    Am looking at the possibility of designing one for myself.  If I
    do, will make the plans available to all with disclaimer that I
    am not liable for any screw-ups by manufacturers and am not selling
    the device.

I was just in Sears over the weekend looking at their Die Hard electric
trolling motors.  According to their display, a way to figure out how much
thrust you need is to count on at least one pound of thrust for every 100 
pounds of weight.  This includes boat, equipment and passengers.  If this 
is true, then a 15 pound thrust electric trolling motor is good for a boat
and everything, everyone in it for up to 1500 pounds.  This is plenty for
a canoe.  A canoe up to full capacity including its own weight would still
be less than 700 pounds.  In fact, I'm even wondering if I get the 15 pound
thrust for my canoe, will it be still too fast for trolling even on the 
lowest setting.  Any comments on this?  271.27 mentioned something already.
Would the 20 pound variable thrust motor set at the lowest setting troll 
slower than the "fixed" low setting of the 15 pound thrust?
Thanks,
Mike_L

    I think it will be fine!  I have a 14 lb. thrust SIGMA that I bought
    at Zyla's a few years back for $50.00 and when I have it set on
    the low speed its at a real slow crawl!  14-15 lbs. of thrust will
    be plenty!  My canoe is 15' and it moves it just fine!  Although
    you may have to help it along with a paddle in a strong wind.  That
    has happened only once to me.  
    
    							John

    If you buy an electric w/variable thrust, then it shouldn't make
    any difference what the max is because you can "throttle-down" to
    next to nothing.  My 24lb thrust Eska (they also make the Sears
    units) has vari-throttle and I can turn it down to a point where
    I can count the rpms...it goes slow.
    
    As I mentioned earlier, as long as you don't plan to battle river
    currents or headwinds, then 14lb should be enough.
    
    Speed??  Well...I can't say that my 24lb Eska will tow any water
    skiers but it moves my Old Town with 2 people along at a nice clip.
    Certainly it has put some of the more remote spots within distance
    where I would not have considered paddling to them before getting
    the electric.
    
    -Joe-
    
    

    
Nevah go too fast for trolling in Maine in any canoe..they troll FAST up
heah.    
                       E
        
    

    Has anyone had any experience with the remote foot pedals?
    Which are good, bad or are they worth the extra $$ ???

    At first, I thought the idea of having an electric motor mounted
    up on the bow of a canoe with a remote control sounded like a good
    idea.  But the more I thought about it, the less I liked it.
    
    A lot of my fishing is done in v-e-r-y weedy waters, and despite
    the weed basket, it still gets clogged up.  I don't particulary
    care to try to move from the stern of the canoe up to the bow and
    then try to raise the electric to clear weeds.  I've got far too
    much $$$ invested in my gear to chance flipping the canoe.  Also,
    you end up running "blind" in that you can't see rocks, logs etc.
    in the water.  You'll hit them before seeing them.
    
    On the other hand...if you meant a remote pedal while the motor
    is stern mounted next to you, I think you'll find the control cables
    will get in your way.  Besides, I don't have enough floor space
    at my feet to accommodate my tackle boxes, rods, and my big feet
    as it is!
    
    -Joe-
    

	I've got a MinnKota on the bow of my bass boat with a remote foot pedal
control and there is no way in hell I'd be able to turn the motor from a seat
at canoe level.  The new ones with the motorized control may be different, but
on mine while underway you sometimes got to stomp on that pedal to get her to
turn.  If your idea of a 'remote control' is just an on-off switch with a hand
steering handle then I'd say sure no problem ( a dimmer switch for a car works
great).  If you are like me and tend to stand in the canoe a lot I'd still say
no way on the remote steering foot pedal because of the balance problem (unless
you're good a standing on one foot in your canoe while cast and retrieve).

	Just my observations...for what ever it's worth.

					Al

    The main reason that I am considering a remote (for my coleman Scanoe)
    (that is the canoe with the motor mount capable of up to a 5 hp
    motor) is that I get a wicked cramp in my back from being sorta
    half way twisted around steering, with winds and currents I find
    that I'm always adjusting the direction of the motor.
    I am also going to look into mounting a cushioned swivel seat to
    give me some back support (and more hours of relaxed fishing).
    
    Are some remotes more sensitive than others?
    
    Erik.

    The try the new MinKota witht the telephone cable remote.  It turns
    with the aid of a motor not from cable turning.
    
    Bassin' Bob
    

    I saw an add for that and it sounds GREAT, but does it work well??
    Also I got the impression that it would cost mucho bucks $$$$$$$
    and maybe run down the battery quicker?!
    Any idea on the price range for that minnkota remote remote?
    

    The new MinnKota 765mx sells for $297.97 thru Bass Pro Shops and
    has a Maximizer built-in to extend battery life.  The only thing
    is...it's designed to be mounted on the bow of a boat and requires
    a small mounting deck or platform.  Definitely not intended for
    canoes.  However, I could have sworn that I saw a Minn Kota ad that
    showed a stern mounted model with the same remote control system,
    but no one seems to know anything about it...not even Bass Pro.
    
    As far as running the battery down quicker....it has to draw additional
    current because the shaft is turned by an additional motor.  However,
    because the Maximizer is also built-in, I'd suspect that battery
    life might be close to the same as a normal unit.
    
    Re: your scanoe.  Even though your motor is stern mounted and requires
    that you "turn around" to control the motor, why not consider using
    a conventional side-mounted bracket used on regular canoes.  That
    would place the motor almost next to you and require little turning
    around.  The way I see it, a swivel seat half swung around so you
    can control the motor places your front-to-back body movement in
    such a way that it might be very easy to tip the canoe (did that
    make any sense?).
    
    -Joe-  

    Does a side mounted motor act much differently than a rear or bow
    mounted one? ie. would it be harder to troll in a straight line
    with it mounted on the side like that?
    This sounds like a good idea, but I feel kinda stupid because I
    mainly bought this kind of canoe due to the "flat back", as long
    as I can troll comfortably I'll be very happy, and be out all day
    instead of a few hours!
    
    Erik.

     
    REP.37
    ERIC,these are my crazy suggestions to you.first i'll ask you,is
    the motor centered in the middle.IF it is i would suggest that you
    put it to the furthest side possible to what ever arm you use to
    steer it.
      second.this will sound crazy but you asked.at the very tip of
    the throttle drill a small hole through it.attach a bar long enough
    that it will sit under your arm pit or maybe further.it would depend
    on what would make you comfortable.slip a cotter pin through the
    bar and throttle and you have just made yourself an extension.you
    will have to look at your throttle and make sure that the hole thing
    turns before drilling any holes.the great thing about the cotter
    pin is that you will have all controls on speed as well as direction
    also you can take it off when you want.
      let me know from anyone else out there if they think that this
    can work.I have not tried this because i don't own a canoe.I thought
    of this idea as i read the note .37. I hope that this will help
    some.
    
    
    
                                        creator of "tobacc" 

    I haven't bought a motor yet, but will keep that extension idea
    in mind.  As far as mounting it towards the side, I don't know
    if i can do that cause it has a 1 1/2 inch (maybe thicker?) metal
    mount molded into the back and it is centered on the flat part
    of the back of the canoe, leaving an odd/small amount of space
    to mount in the corner so to speak (did that make sense?)
    
    looks like     |---=====---|
    
                         ^   ^
                      metal   plastic   does that help?
    
    Erik.
    

    re:42
    	That sounded like a good idea. I also had the same thought when
    I read .37.
    
    re:43
    	Now that you further explained what your doing and why, it makes
    a little more sense. I have a canoe with the side mount and don't
    have that problem. 
	As I remember, the bow mount for the electric your talking about
    needs less space than a traditional type cable steering unit. I
    would suspect that you could easily build a mounting plate in the
    back to hold it. A problem may arise though when you pull the unit
    up as the head of the motor may wind up where your seat is. Your
    going to have to physically look at one in the retracted position
    (if they do retract) to see if it will fit.
    	The points mentioned earlier about the bow mount seem very valid and
    for those reasons I would not put it there.

    RAYJ

re. 42
	I have mounted a piece if 1/2" PVC pipe to my motor in the manner
	described and the steering part of it works fine.  My speed however
	is controlled by a slide switch, so I can't comment on the speed
	control aspect.  The one thing I noticed about my rig is that it's
	just slightly off top center so every time I let go of the extension
	handle it swings out of reach.  This became so aggravating to me that
	I took the extension off the motor.  With the rig described in .42 you
	will definitly have this problem except perhaps at one speed.  If this
	motor will only be used for trolling and getting to and from the fishing
	area , then it should not raise any problem for you, however if you are
	expecting this rig to also serve as a mechanism to slowly work a bank,
	then you'll run into the difficulty I described above.

				Good luck,
						Al

    First I have to disclaim any real knowledge of canoes, except how
    to tip them over....I can do that real well;^)
    
    The idea of an extender on the handle seems to have some merits,
    but I can't help but wonder if you make it long enough to fit under
    your armpit, how will you be able to turn the the motor when you
    want to go in the opposite direction your body is on. Won't the
    handle come up against your body and therefore be blocked from turning
    the boat??? Seems to me that would cause more problems than it solves.
    
    Just thinking....Ranger Ron, (who_will_be_in_the_deep_south_fishing_
    in_two_days)

	Ron,
	    the way my PVC handled that little problem was with two 45 deg
	elbows thusly"

			======
			      \\
				\\
				  ============= trolling motor handle

	Now when I swing it around the long handle rids up over the trolling
	motor head...

						Al

    All the talk on "extension handles" for an electric motor made me
    remember one in the Sears catalog.  It extends your original handle
    length by 12 inches, fits all Gamefisher and Die-Hard electric motors
    (I imagine it should fit all motor handles) and it sells for $4.49.
    It's just a plastic tube with twist-grip handles, but for under
    five bucks it's definately worth it.
    As for wanting to go in an opposite direction, just put it in reverse.
    Some electric trolling motors have all the control in the handle.
    The more I think about it, that would be the kind of electric trolling
    motor I would purchase.  Having all control in the handle would
    alleviate additional bending over to motor.

    Mike_L

    I put a 2'8" exetension on my Merc Thruster.  Took a piece of 3/4"
    PVC pipe, put a 5" split on one end, slid it over the handel and
    clamped it down with a hose clamp - works fine.  To reverse the
    head I had to take the head apart, knock out a couple pins and replace
    them in the opposite holes in the shaft.  It's now a bow mount instead
    of a transom mount - piece of cake.		Don Mac 

    I was just looking through my Coleman canoe assembly instructions
    and according to their "Do's and Don't";  A gasoline outboard motor
    should always be attached to the canoe with a canoe motor mount.
    And small electric trolling motors can be attached to the side of
    the canoe by placing a small board against the side of the canoe
    to clamp the motor against.
    
    Is this advisable for trolling motors?  Shouldn't all motors be
    placed on some kind of motor mount than attached to a scrap piece
    of wood?  If the electric trolling motor is light enough to be
    supported on a piece of wood, then I should save myself the 40-50
    bucks and not buy the motor mount.
    
    Mike_L
    

<    If the electric trolling motor is light enough to be
<   supported on a piece of wood, then I should save myself the 40-50
<    bucks and not buy the motor mount.

     Mike,
     I got one of the canoe motor mounts a Gauch Bros in Shrewsbury a couple
     years ago for less than $30.  So you might be a little high on your
     anticipated expense.
					Al

    re:motor mounts
    	I've seen prices really vary on these. I've seen them for as
    low as $22 (wooden) to as much as $90+ (aluminum and brass). As
    I mentioned in an earlier reply, it's easy enough to make you own
    with some scrap wood and a couple of bolts w/wingnuts.
	One thing I would recommend on any kind of canoe mount is to tie a
    piece of rope from the motor to the boat. I had the motor loosen up once
    and had it not beEN tied, I may have lost it.

    RAYJ

    Well now that we've covered electric motors with canoes, lets talk
    about how you fish from them.  
    Can any of you stand up in your canoe and fish?  Or do you sit down
    the entire time?  
    I was thinking about making some kind of pontoon construction for my 
    canoe so I can stand up in it and be able to cast while patroling the 
    shore line with my new electric.   Although my canoe (15' Coleman)
    is *somewhat* stable enough to stand up in when I'm alone, I dare not 
    try yet to cast while standing.  Has anyone else with a canoe given
    any thought to this?  What about other options out there for the canoe 
    so I can turn it into some kind of *poor man's* ranger or another
    Stump Jumpa?

    Mike_L

    I fished from a canoe (Old Town 14') for many years and on rare
    occassion, when my legs were real cramped or I got daring, I would
    stand up.  It is definately not reccommended unless you've got a
    real keen sense of balance!  And even if you did and were able to
    cast while standing, what do you think might happen if a bass hit
    your plug the moment it hit the water???  I wouldn't want to take
    the chance of losing $500+ investment in tackle by going overboard!
    
    When Chris and I were fishing a lot in our canoes early last year
    (before I got my boat), we considered some sort of pontoon setup
    to stabilize the canoe but figured it would end up being more of
    an aggrevation than it would be worth...so...we just stayed seated
    and occassionaly went up on shore to stretch.
    
    Considering that you can pick up a 12-14' flat bottom "stump jumpa"
    for under $400, I'd suggest you give thast some consideration. 
    It is much more stable...you can stand as long as you're careful,
    and it's car-toppable.
    
    Have fun...and don't get wet...
    
    -HoleShot-

    	A big problem with a canoe and pontoon set-up is that you
    effectively can't fish on the side with the pontoon on it. It would
    just tend to get in the way and limit the fishability of the canoe.
    
    RAYJ

    
    If what you are talking about is an outrigger type of setup, then
    put it on right side and fish the pond in a clockwise fashion. 
    that should do it.  I like the idea.
    
    GW
    
    
    ps.  Ask me about placing in the SHAD derby.
    
    
    

    Is anyone interested in how Gary did in the Shad Derby???
    
    I'm not...so I won't ask.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    ...only kidding, Gary....so how'd you do??

	When I had my canoe (sold it after getting my bass boat) I stood in
it quite often when I was alone.  I would suggest though that when you start,
go out wearing a swimsuit and don't worry too much about getting wet.  This
tactic presumes that you can get back into the canoe by yourself in the event
that you dump it.  I found casting a flyrod from the sitting position severly
restricted my casting distance, so I started standing.  When by myself in the
canoe I would effectively turn the canoe around and paddle from the seat
closest the center of the boat.  From here I could stand and plant my feet in
the curve of the hull, flex my knees a little and seldom had any trouble with
instability. On those few occaisions when I got shaky, I was quick to lower my
center of gravity and park my 230+ lbs on the seat again fast. 
	I believe I read into your question something about using the trolling
motor while standing.  I can't speak to that, however with the weight of the
battery low in the boat, I think with some practice under controlled
conditions, you could probably manage.  Try it in shallow water and let us know
how it went.  The comment about losing expensive equipment was well taken.
May I suggest those items which won't float have some kind of line and buoy
attached, just in case.

	NOTE:	When it comes to canoes and the possibility of getting wet, I
		am a firm believer in practicing the techniques under ideal and
		controlled conditions until you can accomplish the tasks with
		confidence.  These tasks include, but are not limited to

			1:  getting back into your canoe from deep water
			2:  refloating a swamped canoe from deep water
			3:  standing in the canoe to fish, hunt or whatever
			4:  anything else THE DO-GOODERS OF THE WORLD
				CONSIDER FOOLISH.... ( it's only foolish if you
				can't do it with confidence or handle the
				situation if you fail.)

    After thinking about it...better than setting myself up for standing
    comforting...I'll set myself up for sitting more comforting.
    A Coleman back rest I purchased has helped tremendously.  Better
    positioning of my electric trolling motor and battery would help
    also so I can stretch my cramped legs and neck.
    When you canoe guys use your trolling motor when your alone, do
    still position it behind you?  I'm wondering how it would work 
    in front of me and run in reverse.
    
    Mike_L

    Boy, I wish there was a way to put the motor in front! The 
    really frustrating thing about canoe fishing with a trolling motor
    is the wind blows the bow around. When I'm alone I switch seats
    and sit in the bow seat (facing the stern!) so I'm more in teh center
    of the canoe and hook up the trolling motor bracket behind me again.
    The reach is a bit greater but I find the stability and reduced
    blowing around far outweighs the reach. I have a 13' Mad River 
    Winooski and a Merc thruster. It has the low bow and stern to minimize
    the wind impact. I think it helps from being blown around as does
    at least some sort of a keel. The Sportspal or other keelless canoes
    would be a real chore if the breeze is up...
    By the way, my canoe is extra wide for fishing and hunting and I've
    stood in it to flycast when I'm alone. I find it is actually harder
    to stand in one when you have a partner because you two actually
    balance counter to each other and make things worse...
    Then it might just be my partner...
    Eh, Joe?

    	A little something I tried this weekend that may be of use to
    some one. I usually bring a cinder block to place up front when
    fishing alone. Since the battery easily outweighs a cinder block,
    I put that up front instead. To reach my trolling motor I used a
    set of jumper cables. To keep the free ends from touching together
    and sparking, clamp them to a stick and then attach the motor clamps
    to the jumper cable clamps. This did a pretty good job of keeping
    the front end down. I didn't even have to switch seats.
    
    RAYJ

    			   < 25lb THRUST ELECTRIC MOTOR>
    
    	One question, is a 25lb trust SIGMA too big for a 17' Coleman
   canoe???
    
    

    	If you go from off to high (assuming this isn't a variable speed
    motor) and you are off balance or not expecting it, you could flip
    your canoe. You could of course also do this with a 17 lb. thrust
    motor almost as easily. 
    	I don't remember ever seeing any canoe (excluding scanoe types)
    that ever indicated a maximum lb. thrust rating. Canoes do have
    a maximum payload rating which you may have to take into consideration
    as the deep cycle batteries weigh around 50-70 lbs.. There may be something
    on the motor mount to indicate a maximum limit however.
    	I will not tell you that I myself recommend it but I myself
    would not be worried putting that motor on my 15' canoe. If you
    are concerned about it, try it with a life preserver on and in shallow
    water with no tackle/gear in the canoe to start with.
    
    RAYJ

    I've run my 24 lb. thrust Eska on my 14' Old Town without any problems
    at all.  In fact, that's how I got my nickname...
    
    
    "HoleShot" Joe

    I'm running a 25lb thrust on my 17' Coleman, and I love it! To get
    around having the 60 pound battery in the back with all that other
    weight (motor, me, tackle boxes, beer, beer and beer) I rigged up
    a wiring harness so I can put the battery up front. I have the harness 
    set up with enough free cable in the front so I can place the battery
    just behind the front seat if I have a partner, or just in front of
    the front seat if I'm alone. That keeps the canoe pretty level.
              
    Dale

    re .65
    What size cable did you use to extend the length from the battery?
    I might be doing the same with mine.
    Mike_L

    Use 6 gauge or lower.  The lower the gauge the better the battery
    life!
    

    It's not so much the battery life that's extended.  The heavier
    the gauge of wire, the less resistance there is which means more
    "power" available to the motor.
    
    It does make a difference.  As much as 24-50% of the available current
    from the battery can be lost by using lighter gauge wire.
    
    -Hj-

    	Not to mention the possibility of FIRE is you use too small
    a wire.  If it doesn't catch on fire, it can melt a fiberglass canoe.
    Either way, it aint no fun swimmin'.

================================================================================
Note 732.0                 Need Mini-Motor Gas-Powered                   1 reply
MODEL::DOWNING                                       11 lines  20-MAY-1988 11:15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Can anyone recommend a small, portable, light-weight gas-powered
    outboard for a 14 ' light fiberglass canoe (not square stern)? It
    has to be light enough so that it doesn't lift the bow clear out
    of the water when one (160 lb.) person is seated in the stern. I'm willing
    to do some front end ballasting as long as it doesn't mean carting
    anvils into the canoe. 
    
    3-6 HP is fine. Already have an electric, which is great for slow
    trolling, but a real battery hog, even with a large deep-cycle battery.
    Need something that will last 3 or 4 days with minimum fuss (like
    fumbling with chargers, etc.)
================================================================================
Note 732.1                 Need Mini-Motor Gas-Powered                    1 of 1
AD::GIBSON                                           18 lines  20-MAY-1988 11:56
                            -< Check out the Eska  >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    read the note 241 from gary on the ESKA"S . I just ordered the 15
    hp and a guy I work with here just ordered the 2 hp.  The prices
    are super and they are going fast.
    
    Just the ticket!
    
    When you put your motor mount on the canoe put it on the front and
    run it backwards; Unless its Asymetrical in which case you wouldn't
    want a motor on it.
    
    This trims out the canoe for better operation. Just like when you
    solo into the wind you paddle from up front to get the weathervane
    effect of the trailing end of the canoe.
    
     Can't wait to get my motor!   ~~~~~~~~*\_______/
    
    Now all I need is the Inflateble Dingy.
    

    You may also wish to check out note 637 also

    Does anyone know how much the ESKAs weigh? The 1.6 HP and the 5.0
    ?
    
    After seeing the prices and/or the negative comments in other notes
    about gas-powered in general, i don't think a motor purchase is
    in the cards this year.

    
    The 1.6 hp ESKA weights in at 18# with a full tank of fuel (1.4lt.)
    
    I started the breakin (1 hour) last night in the garage.  It is
    air cooled but I thought sinking it into a bucket of water might be
    good to keep the lowere unit cool.........

    It aint got a nuetral.....on the fourth pull, it started and spun
    about three gallons of water out and got me from the waiste down....
    I have never seen my wife and six year old son laugh so hard....
    Of course I beat the hell out of both of them for laughing.

    I still think the ESKA at this price is the best deal going.
    Oh yeh, I was convinced that synthetic oil is the hot ticket...
    ant thought on the stuff?
    

    	I run a 2 hp Evenrude on my canoes (17' & 18'). I used to use
    a 5 hp Chrysler. The 5 hp was a little smoother because it was a
    2 cylinder but it was heavy and had more power than I could use.
    Both canoes are rated for up to 5 hp but anything more than two
    is a waste. All you do is create more vibration and spray. 
    	In general I think there are times that power is almost a
    necessity, like crossing large wind swept lakes. There are other
    times that I prefer paddle power because it is a lot more enjoyable
    without the noise or smell of a gas engine.
    	I don't use my motor too often but I am sure glad I have it
    when I need it.
    Paul

    I am the guy who put in the note 637 refered to by a previous reply.
    
    Go with the electric.
    
    I got the Minn Kota 3hp. for my Crawdad. Performance is excellent
    even with 2 large people in the boat. I have paced with a 3Hp gas
    V boat and the speed is comparable.
    
    I have the 105 amp battery. If you need to spread the weight use
    an insulated set of jumper cables so you dont get too much cable
    loss.
    
    The convinence of just turning the handle to switch on cannot be
    over stressed over pulling the cord on a gas. The Minn Kota also
    has a reverse. DOes the Gas, you will need it if you do any fishing
    (that is for trees etc.)
                                                    
    The advices I received on electric was fantastic only now can I
    appreciate how good it was.
    
    When/if I upgrade my boat I also have the trolling motor.
    
    David.
    
    

    
    David, do you use that electris on the front or back?  If the front,
    how did you rig the transom?  I was able to find a CRASHED CRAWDAD
    that I took the transom from and with a small bit of cutting I now
    have a cast alluminium transom on the front for electric and the
    same in the back for gas.  btw I payed $199.00 for the two hp ESKA
    what did you fork out for the minn kota?
    
    Where do you fish that CRAWDAD?
    
    TBDW/TCDW

    hay tbdw  you have to add in the cost of cutting through the bottom
    of that crawdad when you put in the other transom.
    
    Bob
    

    
    
    a  YUP !!
    
    big bucks
    

    I put the motor on the back (english for Stern).
    
    With the help of Joe Tomas I paid $275 at Bass Pro, however since
    I got it I have seen it on sale at Hermans and Service Merchandise
    for $255.
    
    David.
    
    

I'm considering buying a 14' Sportspal canoe for fishing and general
recreation and am trying to find an electric motor to go with it.
I'm convinced that the MinnKota line with the maximizer is the way to go
but haven't decided how big a motor to get. Unfortunately its slim
pickings this time of year at the stores I've been to in the Nashua/Manchester
NH area. I've seen a 3hp MinnKota at a great clearance price ($259) but am
concerned that it may be too heavy and powerful for the canoe (the motor
would be on a side motor mount, I don't want a square stern canoe). 
Any opinions? My original choice was the MinnKota 65mx (28lb thrust), but the 
best price I've found so far is $249 which is only $10 less than the 3hp.
Are there other pros/cons on 3hp vs 65mx other than obvious weight & power
issues? Anybody know of other stores in the Nashua/Manchester area that have
good price and selection on MinnKota's?

Thanks,
Dave Thompsen

    I found an old 5.5 hp outboard and put it on my home made canoe,
    It's my baby and NOTHING happens to her.
    
    I also built the mounting bracket out of some scrap wood.
    
    Anyway, it's not the power so much as the weight and the quality
    of the bracket.
    
    I was cruising around at max speed and then all of the sudden I
    thought that I hit something and the motor dissapeared into the
    lake.  Turns out that I didn't hit anything, it was just the snapping
    of the mounting as it departed from the rest of the boat.
    
    Moral of the story, it's not the power (lets be reasonable) but
    the weight AND the power.
    
    Dave
    
    P.S.  Good thing I had the motor tied to the boat.

    I have a 17' Coleman canoe, and bought a Minn Kota M65 motor this
    year to use on it, and I must say I'd never go back to the old way!
    Depending on where you want to use it, I don't think the 3hp would
    necessarily be too much. I go out on Paugus Bay in Winnipesaukee,
    and even with 28lb thrust I find myself wishing it had a bit more
    for the open stretches of water...
    
    Like you, I was concerned a bit about the weight hanging off the
    side of the canoe, but it doesn't really seem to be a problem, and
    I doubt that the extra weight of a 3hp would be a big deal. It is
    a pain mounting it, though, especially in the water. I cover the
    infinite control that a Maximizer offers, since even the lowest
    speed seems a bit fast in the canoe sometimes. If you can afford
    the bucks, go for the 3hp, unless it is WAY heavier than the MX65.
    and don't get the biggest marine battery, either. The middle size
    sears DieHard will power my non-maximizer motor all day, and still
    have � charge left - with a maximizer it should be no problem to
    run a 3hp on a canoe all day and have something left, unless you
    are going from one end of Winni to the other at top speed...
    
    I say go for it,
    
    Ed