Conference wahoo::fishing

    You said "NO CANOES", but it appears that if $$$ are of concern,
    that may be a consideration.  I'd certainly suggest looking at some
    12-14 foot flat-bottoms as they are light enough to car-top.  With
    a couple of growing boys, however, even a 12 footer might get cramped!
    
    I have a 14' Old Town Canoe and can take my THREE boys out in it,
    although it does get crowded.  The beauty of the canoe is that it's
    light, easy to car-top, and easy to portage around if need be.
    
    I doubt that anything you build that is large enough to accommodate
    you and your boys will be light enough to car-top.  Wood and/or
    fiberglass can get heavy.  
    
    If canoes are definitely out of the question, then I'd suggest a
    good ole flat-bottom 14 footer.  You can do a lot with it (ask DonMac,
    he's got one).
    
    Happy boat hunting!
    
    -HoleShot- (gall_damn_weather_@!*%?!_brrrrrrrrrr)

    a sturdy scanoe made by coleman are pretty good they are safe to
    take kids in plus they are easy to car top and you can mount a small
    trolling moter on the back of it. it's not like a canoe. it has
    a flat bottom to it and it only weights about 90lbs, and the price
    is around $364 with $25 rebate.

    Aluminum john boats, or stump jumpers as we so fondly call them, are 
    pretty versatile.  They can be car topped, kicked, paddled, left
    outside in the snow, motored, dropped, easily built upon, and they take
    verbal, as well as physical abuse quite well.  
    
    They are nearly as portable as canoes, accept when your alone and 
    fishing someplece that you can't drive right up to, that's when I use
    the canoe, it doesn't seem to mine the dragging as much.
               
    They also can be built upon quite easily.  You start off with just a
    pair of oars, but then while the wife's not looking, ya can sneak off
    and buy a small outboard, then maybe a trolling motor to toss up
    front, then of course you'll need a pair of clamp on swivel seats, and
    it's just not a bass boat without the lcr and livewell.  Before you
    know it you'll have a "Poor Man's Ranger".  It does get kinda crowded
    though...  
               
    Don Mac    		_the_proud_owner_of_Ol'_Stump_Jumpa_
               
               

    Yeah?  Try cutting big hunks out of the hull like the Ranger and
    see if Ole Stump Jumpa still floats!  
    
    As a matter of fact...once you get in it with all your paraphanalia...
    it barely floats!
    
    But Don is right...a flat bottom barge is pretty versatile.
    
    -HolySh*t- (yawn...seen_any_open_water_lately?)

    re: last two
    
    Once you get it, you modify...that's so true.  I started out with
    a plain-jane, strippo Crawdad, and look whats happened:
    
    Started with oars and oar holders, added electric trolling motor.
    Snuck out and got 4 HP Merc.  "Jeez this tank is small"...got 6
    gallon tank with gauge.  Seats uncomfortable, got a folding
    Coleman backrest, then two of Don's clamp on swivel seats.
    One day I'm landing a salmon, step off standard wood footrest
    on floor of boat, almost go for a swim...called Coleman and ordered
    two more, modified em a bit and now have full oak fishing deck floor
    on bottom of boat.  Got tired of getting hands, clothes black from
    aluminum...gave it a custom camoflage paint job...came out nice.
    Game warden scolded me for being out at dusk without running lights...
    hooked up a set that runs off a lantern battery.  
    
    Letsee, did I leave anything out???  O yeah, got the 1986 graphics
    for it and added the bow modification they came out with so the
    "no step" area is eliminated.  Helps landlubbers get in/out easier.
    
    DonMac, you brought up a good subject, I hadn't thought about all
    the tinkering I'd actually done!    Anyone else that can add a chuckle
    here??
    
    _-Chris

    Alright Chris!  I love it!  Ya, see Holeshot, I'm not the ONLY one!
    
    Running lights... I'd tossed that idea around, but Holeshot was
    giving me a REAL hard time about that one...!  I ended up picking
    up one of those handheld spots that hooks up to the trolling motor
    battery, you know the kind that'll set the woods on fire if ya shine
    it on anything for too long!
                                
    You still car/truck top it, like myself???
                                
    Don Mac                     
                                

    Yeah...yeah...I know!  And as Don knows, I'm anxiously waiting for
    the 6' snow drift to melt off my new 15' Princecraft semi-V aluminum
    job so I can start making it into more of a "real" bass boat.
    
    First...there's the forward deck I'm going to put in over the front
    seat up to the bow with a door for access to storage area below
    it.  Then the pedestal seat.  Then the rod holders.  Then rig my
    transom mount elec. motor up on the bow.  Then a foot switch to
    turn it off/on.  Then an extension on the elec. to steer it by foot.
    Then an added storage compartment in the stern.  Then a battery
    box under the new forward deck.  Then elec. connections to go to
    the motor and home brew live-well airator.  Then replace rinky-dink
    running lights with permanant ones.  Then wire those in.  Then buy
    and install LCR.  Then find time and $ to do all of above. 
    THEN...I'LL PROBABLY SINK!
    
    -Holeshot- 

    Geez, Joe, do you think the wife will believe that you "WON" all
    that stuff TOO!!!		

    And just think......after all that is done.......you could have
    bought a RANGER....;^)
    
    
    Tight lines, Ron (I heard a rumor that the ice is out in Georgia:^)

    Re: Cartopping...
    
    Yep, I still cartop it.  Well sorta.  I put it on top of my tent
    trailer.  I find I can do it myself, but it takes a little doing.
    I put the foam blocks on the bow lip and rest it on the edge of
    the trailer top.  Then I slowly slide it down and reposition the
    blocks where they belong.  What's real important is not to bang
    the trailer top near the edges where they curve over and down, since
    these corners are aluminum and hollow underneath.  Real easy to
    poke a hole in on or dent it.   I really don't think I could get
    this boat up on the car roof alone.
    
    Re: Modifications...  I forgot to mention the Down East rodholders
    and of course MOST important, the "Bar Bouy"!!!  (For holding -coffee-
    and ginger ale only ;^)  )
    
    --Chris

    I can toss the 14' aluminum up on my truck easily, just flip it
    over and set the bow on the gate, then push it up until the bow
    is over the cab - no pads or anything else.  I picked up the truck
    ($250 special) for the sole purpose of carrying the boat, so I don't
    worry about scratching or anything.  I use a couple of motorcycle
    tie-downs to hold it down.  I clamp the outboard to the bed of the
    truck (lower unit inside naturally).  And toss everything else in
    the back of the truck.  It's a little work setting it all up, but
    it only takes me about 5-10 mins to load or unload.	  Don Mac
                                              

    re .2
    	Yes, canoes are OUT!!  We all got wet last year when my youngest
    hooked about a 24 inch Northern.  Also lost a rod.  Belly-boats
    are also out.  Can't afford the price of rods and reels.  If my
    youngest (especially) was to hook into a good Northern and head
    for the center of the lake like I did last fall, I know that the
    rod would still be headed for the middle of the lake while he would
    be headed for shore.  Pays for a boat rather quickly.
    	Now, as for crowded, I expect that.  But I want something like
    a John Boat or ??? that is capable of being added to later (read
    poor man's Ranger with 1/2 inch left before sinking).  
    	Really saw the advantages of a boat last fall for bass with
    the belly boat.  caught 5 from tube, 1 from shore.  Fishing time=
    about 50% for each method. 
    	Oh well, with this storm we just had, spring fishing just got
    moved back about 2 weeks.  So, will have time to check out things
    further.  
    		Thanks for all the suggestions.
    		All are appreciated.

    re:0
    	Is it that $450 for a crawdad is more than you can afford or
    that you can't find one in Colorado for $450 ?
    	I'll assume that the first is true. If this is the case, I would
    say check the classifieds for a used jon boat or crawdad. Both of
    these are car-topable and both can be found for about $450 new.
    You might be able to find a second hand one for about $200. Another
    possibility is checking with a Sears or other dept. store that sells
    these type of boats. At times, I have seen new boats marked down
    as much as 50% because of minor cosmetics flaw.
    	You may come across a cheap wooden boat but I personally would
    stay away from them. They tend to be heavy, leak, and require more
    maintenance then they're worth.
    
    RAYJ

    re:boat modifications
    
    	Has anyone done a modification on a aluminum boat that required
    attaching something to the sides below the water line ? If so, what
    did you use, rivets ? Did you have to do anything special so it
    wouldn't leak ?
    
    RAYJ
                                                                      
    

    I got my 14' jon boat for $316, brand new.  The suggested list price
    was around $800 or something like that, but it was 'damaged' (nothing
    a few good whacks couldn't straighten out!).
    
    As far as attaching things.  At the end of last season, we decided
    to put my partners Z6000 on ol' stump jumpa.  Knowing it could not
    be permanent, I did not want to drill any holes to mount the transducer
    (and you can't shoot thru the hull in alum boats).  I epoxyed a
    4"x4" piece of plywood about 3/8" thick to the bottom of the transom
    and used some short woodscrews to attack the transducer mounting
    bracket.  This worked well for the remainder of the season, but
    in the LONG run it would probably lossen up.                   
                                                                   
    Now that I've picked my own LCR I'm going mount the bracket permently.
    I plan on drilling holes, and don't see any problems with that.

    Don Mac	
    
    Thinking about digging out the canoe and sliding it down the launch...
                                                                          

    
What you really need is a Grumman Sport Canoe..which is half canoe (long
and kind o skinny) and half V bottom boat (wider than a canoe with a
square stern).
Unfortunately....they arent made anymore.....I have been looking for
one used for six years and havent found one yet (Did manage to SEE two
of them tho....drool drool!!)...if you find one and doant want it contact
me at Dneast::blum_ed.   
    
WANTED :GRUMMAN SPORT CANOE>>ANY CONDITION.....!!!!!
    
                                            Regards
    
                                             Ed
        

	What I did on my aluminum when I had to go through below the water
line was to put 'fender' washers on either side of the hull and sandwich a
1" patch of an old inner tube between the washers and the hull.  Haven't seen
any water in the boat since.

		     |
	 _	     |		_
	| |	| |  |  | |    | |
	| |-----|-|--|--|-|----|-|----
	| |-----|-|--|--|-|----|-|----
	|_|	| |  |  | |    |_|
  fender washer / /  |  \ \       \nut
   rubber gasket /   |   \ \fender washer
                     |    \rubber gasket
		     |
		    hull


						Al

    	Well, guess who's back in the boat note?  YUP, it's me.  If'n
    youns hasn't figgured out yet, my (or should I say Our and include
    the wife) SCOTCH is showing badly.  I got a cheap river tube for
    my oldest boy and made him a belly boat.  Still don't trust my youngest
    alone and am getting tire towing the rubber raft with my tube. 
    (Now I know why my friend put the electric trolling motor on the
    belly boat.)  So, does anyone have any experience with the new two
    man pontoon boats like in BASS PRO?  Are they stable enough to take
    into open water with 2 foot waves?  How much do they pitch in wind
    and waves.

	I've got a chance to buy a ~14-16' fiberglass boat with a
	canopy, windshield, etc, an old 30 horse Evinrude, and trailer
	for about $800.00 ... 

	I love to fish and *need* a boat badly!  Taking the canoe out
	is too much work, and that's not the idea, right ?  The boat has 
	what appears to be a stress fracture in the back (stern?). I'll try 
	to picture it below to show you what I mean.
	
	Does anyone know 1) if this could be a major big-time problem,
	and/or 2) if it could be, where I might be able to have it checked
	out in the Worcester area ?

	Here's what the problem looks like, pictured as if you are looking
	directly at the back (stern?) of the boat:


		 ____             ____
		|    \_____M_____/    |
		|    *           *    |
		 \                   /
		  \________ ________/ 
		           V
           

	The Motor is mounted at "M".   The *'s are where there are two little
	cracks, at the angle/corner.   Could this be a major reason *not* to 
	buy this boat ?   Does anyone have any suggestions or know of this
	type of problem ? 

	If I buy it I'll take you out to Quabbin! (Of course, after I sell
	the 30 horse and get me a 20 horse motor).

    A few things to check: First, how deep are the cracks?  Surface
    cracks?  Clear through the fiberglas?  Into the Transom?
    
    You will find that the transom is thick (probably 1-1/4" to 1-1/2")
    plywood, with fiberglas laminated over it.  Check to see if the
    transom is dry and sound.  As the plywood supplies all the strength,
    the fiberglass basically provides waterproofing in this area.
    
    If the transom is shot, keep looking.  If it is just surface cracks,
    probably OK.
    
    (I just picked up a 20+ year old boat for fishing -- a major advantage
    of an "older" boat is that you don't worry about taking it where
    the fish are!)
    
    Regards,
    Russ Doty

Russ is right about checking out the severity of the cracks AND the transom.
The cracks could have ocurred either from:

	1. improper trailering , i.e. the load of the transom is not well
	   supported by trailer rollers or bunkers

	or

	2. hitting an object at high speed.


In either event, you want to be certain that the transom is sound.  It 
shouldn't be too difficult to re-inforce the transom with glass and epoxy.

Good luck!

Joe

re: < Note 254.20 by WORSEL::DOTY "ESG Systems Product Marketing" >

�    A few things to check: First, how deep are the cracks?  Surface
�    cracks?  Clear through the fiberglas?  Into the Transom?
    
re: < Note 254.21 by VAX4::TOMAS "Joe" >

� Russ is right about checking out the severity of the cracks AND the transom.
� In either event, you want to be certain that the transom is sound.  It 

	Sounds like good advice to me!  On the way to work this a.m. I
	stopped by a big boat place on Rt 20 (near Rt 122) and also asked
	the same questions.   The guy there said exactly the same thing
	as you two.    Basically, if the crack is deep thru the 
	*transcom*, then the boat is junk.

	Thanks for the advice.