Conference wahoo::fishing

	In response to your request on info about the baitcasters:

	I, like you, had only used the open-faced spinning reels for years.
Last year I started asking questions about the bait casters.  Why are they
so popular, what makes them any better?, why wouold anyone want to put up
with the backlash problem?  The answers I got were varied, but usually were
The reel is stronger, more distance on the cast, better accuracy, your line
doesn't twist on the retrieve, and the lures run truer.  I can personally vouch
for stronger reel, more accuracy, and less twist in the line.

This summer I found a bargain I couldn't resist and bought a Ryobi AV4000. It's
a fiction brake reel (bear in mind that I have not used a baitcaster in 30
years).  I was told to set the brake adjustment to where gravity will make the
lure drop, but not so fast that a rat's nest is the result when the lure hits
the water or ground (this adjustment takes at most 5 seconds).  I started with
a few underhanded casts to ensure that the force of the cast had fully expended
itself in an attempt to reduce the chance of backlash. Within a weekend of using
this reel I was sold and went back to buy the other AV4000 this tackle shop
had in stock.

I am told that the reels with the magnetic brake system are even easier to use
and that with the exception of slamming your lure into the rocks basklashes are
a thing of the past.

			Good luck with your pending purchase;

					Al

    This was my first year using a baitcaster, and can see why most of 
    the pros use them.   It didn't take very long to gain control of it, 
    although I did go thru my share of bird's nests.  I leave my spool
    control loosened up completely most of the time, and adjust the
    magnetic control accordingly depending on lure weight.  If I pay
    attention to what I'm doing I can usually set it correctly the first
    time.  (once in awhile though I'll channge baits and forget to set it, 
    which can be messy, especially when there's a good wind that'll stop
    the lure in mid air)  The thumb learns fast. 
    
    I have a Shimano BMP-150X Mag Plus.  It works great, but I have had 
    problems with it.  I had to send it out once, got it back, something
    else broke, took it back and got a new one.  My partner liked my reel 
    and bought one himself, he hasnt' had any problems with it.  If I were 
    going to buy another baitcaster,  I'd probably go for a Quantum, you 
    can't beat a life time warranty.  And Quantum currently claims they 
    have the best drag on the market...
    
    I use a Quantum (for the warranty) QMD20 spinning reel and haven't had 
    any problems with line streaming off, unless I put too much on when I 
    load it.These reels also have quck release spools, so you can change 
    line instantly. (but I imagine most new spinning reels have this
    feature nowadays)
    
    I picked my wife up a Zebco spincaster, don't recall the number, but
    it was one of their better ones, and it was still less than $20.  It
    has a thing called 'feather touch' so you can sort of brake (feather) 
    the line like on a baitcaster.  It seems to work *reel* well. (I
    actually used it a couple times while my Shimano was in the shop)

    Don Mac

      I own both PENN and SHIMANO spinning reels.  My baitcaster is a 
SHIMANO!  I have the model with the left handed retrieve and I love it!
I believe SHIMANO was the first to come out with this idea!  It is for
the fishermen who always used spinning gear,where the left hand was always
used for reeling. When I first started looking at baitcasters it seemed very
awkward to use my right hand to reel and my left hand to hold the rod. So
when SHIMANO introduced the left handed retieve that was the one for me!
It also has the magnetic control which helps prevent backlash!  I strongly
recommend getting a baitcaster with this feature!
     On spinning gear,I have the lastest and greatest from SHIMANO with the 
fight'in drag feature!  I am a little disappionted with the drag on this reel..
NOT VERY SMOOTH!  It seems to hang up alot!  Other than that I like the reel
and strongly recommend Shimano products.  I have had a couple of problems 
with my older model spinning reel (due to my own fault) and called SHIMANO
for replacement parts and had them within 5 days at no charge!!  I also like
PENN REELS!  I own the older(green) models and love them!  I'm not to sure 
what there putting out right now but when you talk reels you've got to mention 
PENN!  Check out the BASS PRO catalog!  I find there prices are tough to beat!

                                                      GOOD LUCK,
 
							John Waters

    Shimano, YES. For spinning I really like them, with one small
    exception.  The bail spring is to light and breaks, and the fast
    cast models seem to seperate after a year or two if in heavy use.
     
    Now for bait casters, I can't think of any that can beat the ABU
    Garcia Mag+ series. Life time warranty....free replacement, including
    shipping costs. I lost the magnetic break two years ago, and it
    was unquestionably my fault, but there sent a complete replacement free
    anyways. I was very willing to pay for it, but they said no. Now that
    to me is service, and probably why I'm really high on them, besides
    the high quality and functionality they give. They are real easy
    to set up for different lure weights and maintance is a breeze.
    
    Cost is another matter however and that has to be taken into
    consideration. Expect to pay anywhere from $40 to $80 for "any"
    good quality bait caster.
    
    Tight lines, Ron
    

          ANOTHER VOTE FOR SHIMANO!!! I HAVE 2 SHIMANO BAITCASTERS
    AND 3 SPINNING REELS. ALL OF THEM ARE EXECELENT REELS AND I HAVE
    HAD BUT 1 PROBLEM IN 4 YEARS, THAT IS THAT THE MAGNETIC SPOOL
    SEPARATED FROM THE LINE SPOOL, BUT ONE DROP OF SUPER GLUE TOOK
    CARE OF THAT PROBLEM. I FIND THAT THE LEFTHAND MODELS ARE FOR
    SURE MUCH EASIER TO MASTER IF YOU ARE USED TO SPINNING GEAR.
    ALSO THE BENEFITS OF A GOOD BAITCASTERS GO BEYOND JUST ACCURACY
    AND DISTANCE THE CONTROL YOU HAVE ON 5+ POUND BASS IS A BIG!!!!
    EDGE OVER SPINNING GEAR ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE GOOD GRAPHITE
    RODS TO GO WITH THEM.ALSO THE ABILITY TO CAST HEAVIER TEST LINE
    (10-17LB)AND BIGGER BAITS IS A PLUS ESPECIALLY WHEN FISHING
    HEAVY STRUCTURE. 
         AS FOR THE SPINNING REELS THE CUSTOM X MODELS ARE A VERY GOOD
    BUY FOR THE MONEY THE CX1000 IS THE ULTRA LIGHT MODEL AND I HAD
    NO PROBLEMS LANDING LAKETROUT TO 8LBS. FOR FISH ANY HEAVIER THE
    CX1200 WILL HANDLE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING YOU WILL CATCH IN FRESH
    WATER WITH THE EXCEPTION OF 25+LB SALMON,FOR THOSE GO BACK TO THE
    BAITCASTERS.
       ONE MORE THING THE MODELS WITH FIGHTING DRAG ARE GREAT FOR 
    SETTING THE HOOK WHILE WORM FISHING FOR BASS, JUST REMEMBER TO
    FLIP THE SWITCH ON REALLY BIG ONES!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
            GOOD LUCK
    
     
    

    
    
    I also use Shimano for spinning reels.  They have a life-time qan.
    on the bail spring now.  The fast cast models still have a problem
    with the fast cast.  
    
    I use ABU Garcia Ultra Mag Plus.  It only weights 4.5 oz.  Has all
    the features as the one ron uses.  I like the weight because I fish
    those long tournaments all day.  I send my reels back every year
    to the company and they clean and fix free of charge.  SOme times
    they charge to clean but not much..  As for the reasons I like them
    the biggest is the quick changable spools.  Not too many baitcasters
    on the market allow for spool changes without taking apart most
    of the reel.  
    
    As for the price spages has them for about 69-79
    
    Because of the new inport laws Shimano reel will be going up in
    price this year a few bucks..
    
    Bassin' Bob
    

    If you're looking for a good spinning reels for the family at a
    good price ($15-$25) I suggest taking a look some of the less
    expensive Garcia's. The Cardinal, Cardinal-753, 754, etc are all
    sold in discount stores and are very good products. They are graphite
    (lite) and rugged.  The tourney fisherman may know of some drawbacks
    but from my money these are a "best value". My 13 year old fishes
    constantly and it looks kike he beats rocks wwith his equipment
    but the reels hang in there (we have 2-754 fast casts).
    
    Also have an old Mitchell-301 (lefty) about 25-30 years old that
    works great. And a couple of Pflugers (there now ownend by Shakespere)
    and while they work fine, they don't seem verry rugged.
    

    
       i have been thinking of trying a baitcaster as well! all i have
    are spinning reels and rods.  can you use either spin or baitcaster
    reel on a spinning rod??
    
       i have some very EXPENSIVE rods and i dont want to go out and
    buy new rods if i dont have too.
    
    
    					wh.

    Baitcasters should be used with casting rods, not spinning rods.
    
    The eyes are smaller and they face up, unlike a spinning rod.  I
    beleive they're more heavy-duty than most spinning rods. 
    
    Also, (I think) they are designed to bend the opposite way...
                    
    Don Mac         

    bend the opposite way...
    no way
    

    I agree with Don Mac- don't mix species with your rods and reels.
    Aside from the obvious difference in guides the rods ARE designed
    to bend differently. This difference appears in two areas: placement
    of the guides relative to one another (spacing) and relative to
    the SPLINE of the rod blank. Usually, baitcasting/conventional rods
    have the guides mounted directly on the spline (that area of the
    shaft where the material overlaps creating a "strong" spot). This
    gives different flex characteristics in casting. Baitcasters also
    (generally) have more guides than spin rods, and they are wrapped
    closer together. This is to prevent "line slap" and is dictated
    in part by the fact thet the line leaving the spool on baitcast
    reels is already much closer to the rod than on spinning gear.
    
    Of course, in a pinch you can use a baitcast reel on a spinning
    rod, but expect the overall results to be less than satisfying.
    
    If you are already buying expensive rods, maybe you should think
    about "rolling your own". Most rod manufacturers (Fenwick, Lamiglass,
    Rodon, Shakespeare, et al.) also sell just the rod BLANKS for do-it-
    yourselfers and custom builders. It's not hard to do, it makes for
    a good winter project, and best of all: you can get a rod just the
    way you like it- no compromises , and price is comparable to store
    bought (or maybe cheaper!)
    
    Beach Bagel 
    	who_is_deciding_what_to_build_this_winter_

    In Doug Hannon's "Catching BIG Bass" video he talks briefly about 
    the different types of rods.  He uses a rod that he claims is the best 
    of both worlds.  It's a baitcasting rod, but the eyes start on the top 
    of the rod and then move to the bottom further down the rod.  
    Here's an attempt at a diagram:

	     __
	____/..\_____O___o______________________         rod    |
                            O      O      O    O	 bends  V
    
    Don Mac		

    
    As much as i respect Beach fur his coanservashinal activities!,.
    i wid hiv tae agree wi the sentiments o '.10' 
    
    Beach,..cood ye further define this 'spline'? is it oanly pertinent
    	    in beachcasters?
    
    The roads a use bend in oany direcshin a want thame tae!
    
    				Trapper

    This "spline" is in all types of FIBERGLASS and/or GRAPHITE rods.
    It is simply that point at which the layers of material over-lap,
    creating a  "strong" point. The rod can still bend in all directions,
    but position of the guides relative to the spline does affect casting
    characteristics.
    A good reference for this is Dale Clemens' book on fiberglass rod
    building.
    
    Don, I've seen some trolling rods set-up similar to that (guides
    spiraling around the rod). I usually get the line to go that way
    no matter how the guides line up.
    
    Beach Bagel
    	_who_wonders_if_Trapper_kens_BAGELS_

    
    Ok Beach,...i think i git whit yer et!...i've nevir red oanyhing
    		this teknical oan road manufacture regardin graphite/
    		gless,.. bit can relate tae road actshin concernin the
    		'whuppins' in split cane....thanks fur yer response!
    
    
    
        TRAPPER_wha_if_didnae_ken_bettir_wid_eat_this_BAGEL_up_(;-)) 
    
    
    				cheery the noo!...

    	Just to re-open this reel question:
    
    	I did get one of the new baitcasters for christmas.  After using
    it a few times, I have a few questions (all this new-fangled stuff
    is smarter than me).  First, foremost, and top of the list is "How
    do you go about setting this thing up?"  I am having as much trouble
    with this reel as I used to have with my old level-winds.  Without
    being able to work with someone who has fished one of these, I'm
    at a loss as to how to go about the initial set-up to get the maximum
    distance and the minimum headaches.  Perhaps someone out there can
    explain this initial setup so that I can start fishing and quit
    &&^^&$%&^^ing.		
    
    ADVthanksANCE

                      -< How do I set up my BAITCASTER? >-

	1:	Set your magnetic brake to it's lowest setting (least braking)
	2:	Set your mechanical brake snug
	3:	With the lure you're going to be throwing, push the
		spool release. Keep your thumb just off the spool (in case an
		emergency stop is necessary).
	4:	Now back off the mechanical brake until the spool starts to
		move.
	5:	Continue to back off the mechanical brake until the spool runs
		as fast as possible without causing a backlash when the lure
		hits the floor. (On my reels the tweek between too much and too
		little is a very fine line)
	6:	When you change baits, check the adjustment again.
	7:	The magnetic brake is a sort of "fine tuning" mechanism.
	8:	It has been my experience that although the braking systems on
		the new reels are good, it's an experienced thumb riding the
		spool during the cast that keeps me from spending half the day
		digging out backlashes.

				Good luck,

					Al

    	I've tried the previous adjusting method and have had a little
    better luck using this.
    
    	Adjust the mechanical brake (or whatever it's called) until
    there is noticable side to side play in the spool. Then tighten
    the mechanical brake just enough to take the side to side play out
    of the spool. Then crank the magnetic brake to the middle setting. 
    Try a cast. If it doesn't backlash, bring the magnetic brake down a 
    click and try again. Keep doing this until you are satisfied with the 
    distance you get or you get backlashes. 
    
    	Once this is done, you then have your optimum setting. You may
    have to up the magnetic brake setting for certain conditions   
    (i.e. casting into the wind).

    RAYJ

    Back to rep. 3. Just for the statistics: there has been a lefty
    bait caster around at least 15 years. It's the ABU Ambassadeur 5001C,
    a nice piece of hardware indeed!
    
    Eki