Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

Okay, I've slapped myself.

Fish with stren or take up knitting.  Hmm.

KNITTING!

I have given them every effort to impress me and they have fallen flat.  I think
their mono tangles and kinks quicker than any other line.  The reps at the show
last year were touting their kevlar over all the others, but didn't have a good
knot or a line-breaking machine to go with it.  They were basically complete
idiots with no knowledge of their product.  Every time I've spoken to a Berkley
rep or a Jinkai rep, they know everything about the product, including the
limitations.

I agree that everyone has opinions, and everyone is entitle to his or her own. 
What works for me might not work for you.  That's why it pays to experiment and
knot (pun intended) get tied up with one brand of line ;-)

Tom, I'm curious about the co- and tri-polymer lines, like trimax.  I've heard
that the knot strength is not as good since the hard outer layer will collapse
in on the limp inner layer(s).  Is this true or what?


My only experience with the bonito is from the jettys of Menemsha.  They come
through very quickly, showering the sand eels and sperling (silversides) and are
gone again.  If you can make a cast into their range before  they are gone, you
will most likely catch them.  It's not that I've seen them shy away, I've only
been told: use 8# line and keep the hardware minimal (like no split rings or
swivels, etc.)

I want to spend enough time in one spot fishing for them that I can learn what
works and what doesn't. 

My 1995 fishing resolution: I'm going to fish my flyrod more this year.

Tim

By the way, line visibility basically does not matter in a feeding frenzy.  I've
seen video footage of commercial cod long-liners catching bluefin tuna that were
feeding on the cod coming up on the long line.  They would take a handline
basket with a 14/0 hook tied directly to 1/2 inch white nylon rope and throw the
cod in the water.  The tuna would hit in under 5 seconds and they'd throw the
whole basket & Gloucester ball into the water.  After they had 12 fish hooked
and swimming around the boat, they'd grab the ball and put the fish on the
hauler... boom... 12 tuna in no time.

Giants have the best eyesight of any fish.  Pelagic fish have great eyesight in
general.  There are times however, when they feed with reckless abandon, just
like there are times when you can stumble on a school of finning bluefish that
you can't get to bite no matter what you throw.

Tim

	   Maybe someday the rest of the fishing line industry will catch up
	with DuPont....  I have yet to see -any- other Mfr. rate their line
	according to knot strength.  I'm personally not interested in the
	Kevlar line, tried some of the other -superbraids-, not for me right
	now.  I understand that other folks might like it for -their- use.

	   I've been disappointed in -all- of the line reps!  All the Berkley 	
	folks are doing is telling you exactly what you want to hear.  I've
	also talked to Alaska guides who won't let their customers use Jinkai.
	Last year I tried TriMax (again) too stiff, Berkley Ultra Thin, ZERO
	knot strength, and XL never had so many -spinning- reel birdnests!
	I particularly like their ads that say that it's the strongest line
	for a given lb. test!  I'm sorry, but I -usually- spend a few extra
	pennies for a -class- line!  I don't want to catch what I think is a 
	line class world record only to find out that my line is overtest.

	   So, there are lots of different lines out there.  Pick what works
	-for you- and use it!  Just, PLEASE, don't try to tell someone else
	that -your- line is the only one to use!

	  Now, can we get back to rod/reel recommendations in this string
	instead of a -my line's better than your line- discussion?  Hmmm?

						B.C.

RE: .30
Duh, idunno.  I use the Jansik Special and I've never had one fail or 
break.  Honest, never!  I'm a natural experimenter and reseacher besides
suffering from OCD, so I jumped right on Lefty Kreh and Mark Sosin's knot
book.  The reason was improved clinch knots failing.

I tied each end of a piece of mono to a hook using 2 different knots and 
did tug of wars, repeating each test 3 times.  Then I did it again with 
different lines.  No scale involved at all, just which knot is best.  The 
clincher lost in every case to both the Jansik Special and the Palomar.  
The line would break inside the knot.  In pulling the Jansik Special 
against the Palomar, the line _never_ broke inside either knot.  Using 
any size of any brand of line, including TriMax.  The other brands were 
Berkely Big Game and XT, Ande, and Orvis Super Strong leader material.

If you yank real hard the Palomar will break inside and the Jansik won't.
But yanking the Jansik that hard loosens it so that it will fail if you
retie the other end of the line and pull again.  When you tie a Jansik
correctly it looks right, when you screw up it looks ugly.  When you 
screw up a clincher it still looks good but can be at 50% or 60%.

The best all around bonito and false albacore lure is a #7 Swedish Pimple, 
which has a big split ring on each end.  Another good one is the Deadly 
Dick, which has a big stainless barrel swivel built into it.  Go figure.  
Both are best either plain or with chartreuse prism tape (regular green 
tape doesn't work very well).  Deadly Dicks (use the 3/4 oz slender ones) 
cast way better than pimples in a severe wind.  

You hit the jetty on a good day.  About 40% of the time when they come in 
there nobody hooks up.  B.C.'s right, we need a bonito topic and a line
and knot topic.  Sombody recommend a rod/reel combination.

I've fished sweedish pimples & deadly dicks for bonito every summer I've been
there.  I've seen the bonito schooling up the sand eels.  What do I catch one
on?  A Rebel J-30 in mackerel pattern.  I even cast it way short of the school
and said "Oh !#*$".  I start to reel quickly, intending to re-cast.  About 4
cranks later the rod almost took a bath.  Last year was a big year for deadly
dicks.  Previous years were the sweedish pimple.  I got a pile of both and don't
get the time to fish for bonito enough!


Tim

    Does anyone have any data that compares the various brands of
    monofilament for either abrasion resistance or stretch?
    m

I don't know if I've ever seen any independent studies that were unbiased.  
Of course if you were swayed by all the various manufacturer's claims, 
you'd either buy 'em all or none at all and use kite string!

Despite what each manufacturer claims, I think it becomes a question of 
going out and buy some line and use it to formulate your own opinion.  
Personally, I will never use Stren and am partial to Trilene XL and Silver 
Thread.  

-Joe-

I think the important thing with mono is to buy good quality, brand name mono,
rather than k-mart generic line.  The big manufacturers spend more on R & D,
have more exact standards, and in general produce better line.  Then, you will
have to try them out and see what you like.  At the risk of starting another
war, I do not personally have good luck with Stren (was I diplomatic enough this
time?) and have had good luck with Trilene XL, Big Game and Ande tournament
green.  I mostly (95%+) fish saltwater, so my line characteristics are different
than a fresh-water bass fisherman.  Abrasion is not much of a problem for me,
except from the fish itself, so I use leaders.  You may get better answers if
you state what you're looking for in a mono line.

Tim

	A good example of personal is the fact that Joe will never use Stren
	but likes Trilene XL and Bagley's Silver Thread, and I will -never-
	use Trilene (tried them all, don't like -any- of them) but I use both
	Stren and Bagley's Silver Thread...

	I think In-Fisherman did a mono comparison about 1-2 years ago...
	Anybody have the time to look it up?  I think they did % stretch
	and actual break vs rating.

					B.C.

	Sorry Tim!

	   You were more diplomatic than I was...  I'll try to behave!

					B.C.

    I use "no-name-brand X",,,8 lb test line,,,,get something like 10,000
    yards for about $3.99. It last me forever,,,very seldom breaks,,,when
    it twists like all line does, I don't feel bad to strip it off and
    replace it,,,life is good,,,why pay so much more??
    No other line get's aboard my boat because it's durable (and cheap)...
    
                                            -Steve

    I used to get a magazine called Tackle Test (or something like that)
    that did a mono comparison of 4 lb test. This magazine originally had
    no advertising and was like $50/yr. It then got bought out by some jerk
    who in his infinite wisdom, decided to forgo the independent testing
    and merely make a compendium of tackle manufacturers press releases!
    Talk about going exactly the other direction! That magazine folded, and
    now I have a bogus subscription to Bassin (which has thankfully run
    out.) But I digress. :-)
    
     The upshot of the article was that Bagley's Silver Thread did the best
    overall, from casting distance to abrasion resistance to breaking
    strength. I don't remember how the others did, but I can look into it
    if people are interested.

	RE: .11

	Steve,
		This is another example of everyone having different
	needs/wants in a line.  You want a strong, inexpensive line and
	have found one that meets your needs.  That's great!  The reason
	it's so strong is the cheaper line is made way over test so they
	can be sure they're giving you a line that's as strong or stronger
	than the premium line.  Who hasn't heard that claim?  It's true!

		The more expensive lines are kept to tighter tolerances so
	they have a more uniform diameter (they're the same strength 
	through the whole line) and are closer to listed breaking strength
	without going below.

		 Then there are Class lines.  This doesn't mean high class,
	as in expensive and snobby, it means line class for records.
	These lines are made to break at just -under- the listed poundage
	for line class records.  Because it's made so uniform (and weaker)
	than the other lines, it's also the thinnest, best casting line
	in any test!  You just have to understand that it will break at
	the listed poundage or below and non class line will break at the
	listed poundage or above, most likely at least a whole class higher!

		As much of a long shot as it is, I like to use class lines
	for most of my fishing.  Am I dreaming?  Maybe, but if I land a
	fish on 8 lb. test and apply for a record I don't want the IGFA
	to come back and tell me that my line tests at 12 lb. and I missed
	that record by a small amount!!!

		How's that?  Fishing Line Break Strength 101....  Sorry
	if any of it sounded like I was talking down to anyone, that was
	not my intention.  I just thought it was a good time to clarify
	something that confuses a lot of people, both beginners and more
	experienced.

					B.C.

    Having asked about line abrasion and stretch I do appreciate the
    replies thus far.  To be more specific in terms of my intent,  I
    was looking for a recommendation for 30# mono to be used for drifting
    eels, mackeral, and pollack in the Piscataqua River / Great Bay N.H.
    for stripers.  Its also likely that from time to time, I'd fish a
    few jigs down deep as well.  The maximum depth is under 60' (so stretch
    isn't as big a deal as for cod fishing); the bottom is all rock.
    
    If possible, i'd like limited stretch for sensitivity plus high
    abrasion resistance.  Spectra lines provide the sensitivity but
    knot poorly and chew into everything.  Its unclear how well they
    perform on abrasion.
    
    So all things considered, the choices come down to Ande, Trilene Big
    Game, or Jinkai.  Ideally, some independent organization would have
    tested these lines.  Recently, Fly Fisherman (?) magazine had a nice
    article about fly leader ... they compared a dozen or so brands for
    diameter vs breaking strength, limpness, etc ... a nice job but it
    only applied to 6x tippet.  That's a little light for my current use.
    
    Suggestions?  m
    

	   All of the lines you list are good lines for the intended
	purpose...  Out of those, -I'd- pick the Ande, in Tournament Green.
	But, that's just my opinion!

	   Load up each rod with a different line and see which one works
	best -for you-.  If you've only got one rod then try them one at
	a time.  Sounds costly and wasteful but in the long run you get a
	line that -you- like and you can just buy bulk from then on.

					B.C.

    Plenty of folks do get away with using cheap line, but if you want 
    to land big fish on light line, I think you are much better off with
    the premium brands.  
    
    When I began getting serious, or obsessed might be another way of
    putting it,  about bass fishing I broke off more than my share of  
    big fish with cheap 8lb mono.
    
    With 8lb test or less, I think there is a huge difference between cheap
    and premium line.  If your talking 25lb test, the cheap line may not 
    break on you, but it also won't cast as well as the premium brands.
    
    A possible exception is BPS Excel, I know a few folks who use it.
    It's not REAL cheap, but considerably less than most premium brands.
    
    While I'll occasionally try other lines, I stick primarily to 
    Trilene XL, been using it for years, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
    
    For 6lb test I use Maxxima Chameleon, smooth as silk, and amazingly 
    tough, works great on the tiny ultralight.
    
    -donmac

    I do a "LOT" of trolling for the salmonoid species with spoons,
    wobblers, spinners and the rest of the infamous line twisting buggers.
    I use to buy only the name brand stuff ($$$). I even purchased a couple
    of spools of the German made Tectan line. Great line, wicked
    exspensive!
    
    What I ended up finding out that no matter what the quality. Once it has
    begun to twist it loses it strength and castability. I was going broke
    because we would literally need to change line daily. We tried exspen-
    sive barrel swivels. Cutting the lures off and dragging the lines to
    take the twist out but it became a nuisance. Last year I ended up
    buying three spools of Cabela's Copolymer in different strengths.
    4lb, 6lb and 8lb. For the price (cheap). We were definitely pleased.
    
    At lake Ontario last spring we ended up taking a 14lb Rainbow and a
    15 pound Brown on the 6lb test while flatling 160 ft behind the boat.
    Talk about stretch, that Rainbow tail walked for at least 60'.
    
    No Spider wire for this guy........
    Bob M�
    

See BC, we *CAN* agree -- 

I use Ande 30# for eelin' and live baitfish fishing for stripers, on an 8'
conventional outfit (custom) w/ a 25GLS lever drag.  Never broke the 30#.  Cut
off yes, but never broken.  I pull the hook on more stripers than breaking the
line. 

I use 15# big game on spinning rods for approximately the same type of fishing

Tim

    
    RE: .13  I hear you and understand what you are saying because I listen
    to the commercials also,,of course Orlando Wilson isn't getting payed
    by No Name Brand X either but I'm sure if he was, the price of that
    line would go up. I do believe there are some actual facts to support
    what you are saying, but I also think the "Imitations" these days are
    really infringing on some of the patents of certain products and are
    ALMOST as good as the real thing. Someday, read the label on a shampoo
    bottle of Market Basket shampoo and say Pert. There may be only 1
    ingredient different.
    
    I know one thing for sure,,,it's getting harder to find the Brand X
    fishing line....out of business or bought out by Stren??
    
                                             -Steve

	RE: .19

	Steve,
		I wouldn't dispute the fact that there most likely are
	inexpensive lines out there that may even be of higher quality
	than the major brands.  Happens in every industry.  As I said,
	if you found one that you like, that's great.  I'm at the point
	where I've been through -so- many types of line that I won't
	take the time to try the cheap stuff anymore.  Am I missing out
	on a good price on some good line?  Maybe I am, but so far every
	time, I end up back to the same few premium lines.

		Just don't tell anyone what you use!  You can bet that
	somebody in here hates it!

					B.C.

    I'm not surpized to hear that Cabela's Copolymer line is good stuff.
    
    My guess is that is in at least the same category as BPS Excel, and 
    substantially better than the noname blue spool you would buy as a dept
    store.
    
    I have heard that Cabelas and BPS buy bulk line from the major vendors.
    
    -donmac

    I use BPS Excel exclusivley.  I'm only fish for freshwater Bass.  I buy
    it in bulk and change my line often.  Only problems I have is line
    twist on the spinning reels (although everyone tells me its me 8^) with
    the light stuff, but the same thing seems to happen with the Premium
    brands I've tried as well.
    
    							Gary