Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

Hooks are very important.  There are very few hooks that I consider "general
purpose".  There are a few which I have a lot of because they are good enough to
use in a number of situations (Mustad 3407 O'Shaugnessy in 1/0 and 6/0).  Hook
sharpness is paramount.  I sharpen smelt hooks.  Some common reasons for losing
fish are:

1. Hook wears a hole.  Hard to combat this one.  Probably you didn't get the
fish in quick enough.  One thing you can do is keep the line tight so it doesn't
fall out.

2. Hook fails to penetrate.  Sharp hooks.  Gamakatsu are the sharpest I've found
out of the pack.  I can probably count the stripers lost on these hooks at less
than 5%.  Since we never see those fish, they could have been hooked through a
very thin place in the mouth and just ripped out.  Using the right style and
size makes it easier to penetrate and hold.  Smaller hooks penetrate better.  


Funny thing about hooks -- the ratio in size between at smelt hook (Size #6 and
8) and a tuna hook (#10/0 - #12/0) is not even close to the ratio of the sizes
of the fish.

Tim

                           -< Barbless vs OutBarbs  >-
    
    NEW for 95 I see that both Berkley and Tournament lures have
    introduced a  new hook that has the barb on the  opposite side of the
    hook. The hook is coated with a lubricant for easier hook-sets.
    
    They say that the outbarb hook penetrates and hold the fish better than
    a conventional barbed hook.  Berkley goes on to say that there is less
    fiction on that side of the hook, and based on the model you use for
    the fish's mouth that can be true, but is it a big deal or not?
    
    
    
    GAMATKATSU has a new Barbless worm hook for 95 and it is supposed to 
    provide faster penetration and injure fewer fish.
    
    
    A question was  asked at a lecture on fishing for stripers last year 
    about barb vs Barbless hook.  I forgot who the local pro was but he had a
    very interesting model for the fish's mouth.  Simple put, It is very
    much like a stretch balloon.  Now take a hook and jab the balloon.
    The rubber is under tension tan a barb will cause a larger hole that a 
    Barbless hook plus it will make a slot that can expand and allow
    the fish to be injured and or to throw the hook.  He said that a Barbless
    hook with tight line will lose less fish and injure less fish then one
    with a double barb.
    
    If this model of the fish's mouth is correct that the new Barbless and
    or smaller barbs might be the way to go.
    
    It would also change the way that I would sharpen my hooks, 
    right now I file the barb, but it might be more important to
    have a sharp small point instead.  
    
    Any ideas or experience with Barbless hooks.  The only one I have is a
    Barbless treble hook that came on my ultra lite crank bait.  I notice that
    hook set are  very easy and taking the hook out of both the fish and
    other parts are also easy.
    
    john
    
    
    
    
    

    re: .2
    
    Outbarbs? Sounds like someone trying to carve out a slice of market
    share to me. Maybe not totally ridiculous, but close enough...
    
    Everything I've read favors barbless for hook penetration, for the
    reasons you gave (smaller hole, less friction, etc). As far as holding
    power, if you get a good set, you've won half the battle - and all the
    barbs in the world won't hold a lousy set...
    
    IMHO, one should never depend on a barb to hold a fish anyway, and
    therefore should keep a taught line (except for jumping sailfish, I
    s'pose ;^) 
    
    There's no doubt that barbless is the way to go for C&R, as an easier
    release means higher survival rates. Besides, weren't barbs meant to
    hold *bait*, not fish?
    
    /dave

    The inside of the hook does have more friction.  It is on the
    compression side,, but I am not sure if  one can tell the difference!
    The OutBarb  point is a very sharp needle point and the bard is move
    back.  This still will make a slice for the barb vs just a point for
    needle.  

    I think it will be next to impossible to hand sharpen the OutBarb 
    style hooks because of the low friction coating.  It looks like the
    hook was dipped in Teflon.

    john
    
    
    

     I've seen the outbarbed hooks before, and I seem to recall a study
    that gave the outbarb style a significant advantage in fishholding
    ability. Can't remember where I saw that (could have been an
    advertisement by the originators of the outbarb style.) In any case, it
    would be worth a try to see if they work as advertised.

	This is another version of the old Sobey style salt water hook.
Of course the mfrs. will tell you it's new and improved!  I think the outbarb
style actually goes back to the days of wood and bone hooks.

	Opinion here:  The so called super sharp hooks like Gamakatsu etc.
	are for the market segment that does not want to sharpen hooks.
	When the hook is dull they throw it away instead of sharpening it.
	Yes, I use them... But I also sharpen them when they're dull.

	Anyone who is willing to take the time can make a hook sharp enough 
for any fish!  A perfect example is flyrod Tarpon.  Long soft (well, sorta)
rod, light (12-20 lb.?) tippet, large hook, and about the boniest mouth in
the fish world.  I'd bet that -most- flyrod Tarpon are caught on hand sharpened
hooks, most likely either triangular or diamond point.  Mr. Tatosian may be
able to add more to this part too...

					B.C. 

    I like the  "days of wood and bone hooks" maybe this add is for the
    bone heads:)
    
    I have been using a file to sharpen my hooks, it sharpens the barb into
    a knife like edge. The point ends up like a sharp triangle insead of a
    needle point.  Should I then round the point to make it as much of a
    needle point as possible?
    
    thanks jb
    

I've found that one of those small, flat diamond sharpeners (medium grit) do
a real nice job of sharpening hooks.  They work faster than a coventional
file and make it very easy to achieve a sharp point.

I usually sharpen my hooks to a round point, but I also know that there are 
some hooks out there that are designed more like a surgical suture, i.e. flat 
with the sides sharpened to cut through rather than pierce (Owner hooks).  
The only drawback I can see is that they're probably next to impossible to 
resharpen.

Anyone had any experience with Owner hooks? 

-Joe- 

    I've used Owners for big worms and liked them.  Can't honsetly recall
    if I have ever resharpened one.  The new hooks keep points so well, I
    don't sharpen them anywhere near as much as I used to.  I used to
    sharpen my good ol' Tru-Turns religiously, but these days my Gamakatsu
    and Performance hooks will still stick to my thumbnail after lots of 
    fish.
    
    I still check/sharpern my crankbait trebles and spinnerbait/leadhead/jig 
    singles often, but as time goes by more of those are coming with
    hightech hooks as well...
    
    -donmac

    
I have a simple and inexpensive Hook Sharpener, it is design to
go on a key chain and can be found in most local stores (Kmarts,
Walgreens, etc) for Under $4.  It has two steel files, you pass
the Hook thorough the files and it puts a great knife like hollow
cut edge.   It however does not put a point on it.

I use a true turn hook, and sharpen it until it stick into
my thumb nail under its own weight. Somewhere I was told that that 
if you  can stick your thumb nail then its sharpen enough to hook 
set a bass' mouth.  I also drag the hook over the nail making sure 
it will cut a nice line.

With the OutBarb hook I could sharpen the barbs edge. 

In the bass pro catalog I see a Hook Sharpener that is design
to put a needle point on a hook, it looks like an old wire wrap 
bit that you put the point in it and spin ($3).  Has anyone tried
that type, it might be a good way to put back the needle point
after a put the hollow grind edge on it.

This would allow me to make my true turn hook look like that of
a VMC Cone Cut hooks. ( a knife edge barb with a conical tip )

    
    donmac how do you sharpen trebel hook,
    I have over used my ul crank bait... I have
    caugth so many fish this week, that I have bent
    the trebel now they are dull and I have lost three fish in a row
    
    thanks john
    
    

<In the bass pro catalog I see a Hook Sharpener that is design
<to put a needle point on a hook, it looks like an old wire wrap 
<bit that you put the point in it and spin ($3).  Has anyone tried
<that type, it might be a good way to put back the needle point
<after a put the hollow grind edge on it.

   I use one. It's only drawback that I can tell is I often get a point that
is too long and thin (i.e. it tends to fold over) if you over do it. At $3
it beats the hell out of a $50 Hook-Hon-R, but you've got to be careful with
it.  It's great for a touch-up, but not real good for an overhaul...

Al    
    

    re:.-2
    
    I most often use one of those $50 Hook Honer Al mentioned.  8^)
    
    If I don't have that on board I'll use a file, with a treble you
    sharpen 2 points at once, laying two point sides on the file or stone, 
    and go around til you've done all sides.
    
    -donmac

    re: A few back
    
    I've not yet had the pleasure of flyfishing for tarpon, but what I've
    heard and read is that the preferred method of sharpening a hook for
    tough-mouthed beasties is the triangle style over the conical (round)
    style. The reasons given are that the triangle point is stronger - 
    because you can have more metal there but still make a wicked sharp
    point - and that the knife-like top edge will cut its way into tough 
    mouth-parts, where the round point really has to spread the tissue out 
    to penetrate all the way.
    
    Not sure if all that make sense or not, but that's what I've seen. Some
    day I might be fortunate to find out on my own...
    
    In the meantime, whether I'm out fishing freshwater or salt, I use 
    de-barbed hooks, and use a hook hone (small stone type thingie) to put 
    a triangle on the top and flat file the bottom. It seems to me that
    trying to make a round point would take too much time away from
    actually fishing ;^)
    
    /dave

The intersection of three planes is a point, is it not? (unless it is a line or
a plane, but they wouldn't be very sharp, now would they?)  Therefore, a
triangular point is the minimum sharp point with the maximum strength (most
material left after sharpening).

Tim