Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

I was tired of setting the hook hard enough to cross the eyes of 
a 5 pound fish that I had just hook, with the 20 lb braided line I 
felt that I could drag out a 50 lb snapping turtle.  I decided 
to forget about all of the physical laws and picked up my  4 1/2 foot 
ultra light rod with two-pound line. I know for years just about everybody 
I fished with thought it was a sin to lose a fish because of a broken line 
or to waste time playing with a fish. "First you get the fish in the boat, 
then you play with it".

I had been fishing with the Ultra lite for about 15 mins with lots 
of success I had several yellow perch and a few kibbies, I was in prime 
bass spot and there must have been a contest going on as two $20,000 + 
boats pulled in, so I decided to move on and let the larger bass boats
have the prime spots.

I when to a little know spot inbetween the two boats. Off  to my right 
was a large lily pad farm and off to my left was a neat point with 
grass growing on it.  Bass boats were fishing both  spots. I was 
in the middle with the only visible structure of two small sick looking
six inch lily pads.  I knew that there was a 10 ft hole and some neat 
structure about a foot to the right of the two pads.  I tied on a REBEL 
ultra lite teeny wee craw, it is a crank bait that is 1/10 oz and about 
1 1/2 inch long.  This is the most exciting of the ultra lite crank bait 
that I have every used, it has a great vibration and bangs into things 
and bounces off. It has a pair of very small treble hooks - size 14 or so. 

My first cast I had a fish on, instead of setting the hook with a furious 
jerk of my rod I raised it smoothly and once I had the hook set I let the 
fish go where it liked, putting on just enough tension to keep the line 
tight and to pull a great 180 degree bow in my rod.  I knew I had a fish
on that was better then my ultra lite set up.  This was my first true
large fish on Ultra Lite.

The fish ran back and forth making my drag sign, then it took off for
a weed patch, it got into the weeds and I decided that I had to horse
it out, I might lose it but it lost anyhow.. I got it out and it 
zoom for deeper water.  I played with the fish for about 2 to 3 mins,
then my  "First you get the fish in the boat, then you play with it"
habits got the best of me and I got cocky and tried to force the fish 
to to surface so that I could look at it.   It was a 2 to 3 lb Smallie, 
then I said to my self how on earth are these #14 treble hook holding 
that fish, no sooner then I thought that when the fish say the boat and 
hit for the bottom pulling the hooks out of its mouth.


What the point to this long Story... how on earth does one land
a large bass on ultra lite equipment with such small hooks?   I 
guess I should have played with the fish until it was tired, and
then pulled it along side of the boat and lipid I, however, I am
not sure that this can this be done with such small treble hooks.
Should I put larger ones on?

I did manage to land one large fish but it was a 26 inch pickerel, 
I was not impressed as they do have a soft jaw and I was able to get 
both sets of trebles hooks in him, as for the bass I only had the 
trailer hook seated.


Any serious advice out there, or other who have tried 
using Ultra Lite for serious size bass fishing?  Should I 
be using larger hooks, or do I just need to learn to understand
that the only way to catch big bass on ultra lite is to over come
the line-snapping reflex and to give up in advance on the possiblility
of catching them and just play them and hope they get tired before 
the line breaks or the fish pulls free.


thanks john
    

I have two critial words for you:

sharp hooks.

There should be no reason a small hook is easier to throw, if the point has
penetrated.  A larger hook has more "bite" and will probably set into a fish
better, but it also has larger diameter, requiring more force to set it.

Tim

    I've been fishing ultralight almost exclusively for about 9 years.
    During that time I've caught largemouth over 5 lb, smallmouth to over
    4-1/2 lb and a wide range of other fish. I LOVE to get smallmouth,
    especially the surface-to-air variety.
    
    From my perspective, there are two benefits to ultralight: you hook
    more fish, and the fish are more fun!
    
    Most of the time I use a small (1/32oz) jig and grub. This has a thin
    wire hook which penetrates easily. I also usually fish barbless;
    personal preference. I second the comments on sharp hooks. The big
    thing is that you are NOT going to be able to horse in a large fish.
    About the only times I've had trouble are when I try to muscle a fish. If
    you are in a situation where you need to, such as weeds or pads, you
    probably shouldn't be using ultralight.  I generally like to fish
    clear/rocky water.
    
    In general, fish appropriate conditions, re-tie frequently, and double
    check your drag!

    Thank you for the info, I will give it another try.
    
    It sure was a kick, after several minutes of playing with the fish I
    guess I got inpatient and horsed the fish up to see what it was,
    but I had more with the ultra lite equipment then my big stuff. I was
    luckie to get the SM out of the weeds, but then again there was only a
    small patch and the rest was open water.
    
    I will keep the small hook, as it take less pressure to set them,
    and yup there are keep sharp, to sharp, every time I pick them up
    they dont let go.
    
    
    thanks john
    
    

John,

Just to give you and idea of what it takes to play large fish on ultralite 
tackle, a couple of weeks ago a friend of mine picked up a 5 lb 8 oz 
smallie in the Merrimack River using 6 lb test line on a medium action rod.
He caught the fish off a sandbar in about 8' of water which then drops off 
quickly to 30'+.  The fish headed for the depths and screamed line off the 
spool, made several long runs, then proceeded to head to the surface for a 
couple of jumps.

It took Paul *18 minutes* to land the fish before he released it. 

You're right in that you can't horse them in.  Even smaller fish, and 
especially smallies, will get a shot of adrenelin when they see the boat 
and make one last surge to attempt escape.  That's usually when most fish 
are lost, so it's important that you play the fish to tire it out.  Of 
course, if it is too tired, then you may need to spend a few minutes 
to recessitate it so that it will recover.

Have fun!

Joe

    
    Set your equipment to foolproof until you get that 20 lb test line out
    of your system. In other words let the equipment do most of the work
    for you. Set your drag to it's lower points and make sure you have a
    really flexible rod. The ultra light fishing pole and light drag should
    be able to compensate for "horsing" until you remeber what you've got
    in your hand. When that drag starts to sing ease it up. After a while
    you begin to get the feel and you'll actually find yourself fingering
    the spool in later runs to compensate for the light drag. Remember in
    the heat of battle you don't have to fiddle with the drag if it's set
    loose. You need only apply pressure with your finger to the spinning
    spool.
    
    I got converted to Noodle Rodding two years ago and now find fishing to
    be twice as much fun. Nothing beats an 11.5' noodle rod with 4 lb test
    attached to a 12lb Steelhead in a river that's at two gates and moving.
    I've since caught large Browns (5+lbs), Rainbows, Smallmouths all on
    this rod.
    
    What a blast!!!!!!
    Bob M�
    
    ps I'm not a purist. This weekend I'll be Tuna fishing for Yellow Fin,
    Big Eye and Albacore with Swordfish, Mako and White Marlin also a
    possiblity. Will be 100 miles out and the line of choice is 100 lb test
       
    8*O

    I took my eight year old son out on the Merrimack River Sunday afternoon 
    to do a little fishing.  I decided to bring my ultralite which I had 
    just put some brand new Stren 6lb test line on. 
    
    We were using worms and catching a bunch of smaller bass when my son
    asked to try the ultalite rig.  We were anchored right near the Rt. 93
    Bridge, toward the middle of the river, and all of a sudden the
    ultralite start to scream.  My son yells "Dad, what do I do?"  I said
    Just hang on!
    
    The fish made three runs and twice almost stripped all of the line off
    the spool.  My son pumped and reeled for 30 minutes to bring the fish
    alongside the boat.  It was an 8lb carp, caught on 6lb test by an
    eight year old.  He couldn't stop smiling for two days.
    
    Despite many feelings expressed in this notes file about carp, it was 
    a good fighting fish, made more exciting by the feel of catching it 
    on ultralite tackle.
                 

    	I rarely use anything above 6 lb. test on a spinning outfit in
    fresh water. After a while, you'll develope a pretty good feel for when
    the line will break and can push the limits a little.
    
    	To date, the biggest fish I've ever taken on 6 lb. test was a 42.5"
    carp. This was in the Merrimack with an out going tide and a decent
    amount of current. It was on an original Mitchell 300 with the large
    capacity spool, which holds about 300 yards or so of 6 lb. test. Fun
    stuff.
    
    	I've never gone below the 6 lb. mark into 4 or 2 lb. test, but I've
    never prescribed to the "losing a fish due to light line is a sin" 
    mentality. I'd be more concerned about over-tiring the fish. Using 6 lb.
    test does cast light stuff pretty well and allows some minimal horsing
    if need be.
    
    	As a matter of fact, shad fishing is usually done with nothing
    larger than 8 lb. test and these fish usually run from 4-9 lbs. with
    speed and air time that can put some smallies to shame. For that, I
    usually use my ultra-light with 6 lb. test. Ya just gotta get use to 
    letting the drag/rod do most of the work for you.
    
    	RAYJ

    That is a good point I don't have much line  my reel holds 
    60 yard of 4 lb test.  I will have to follow the fish unless I can
    'turn' the fish with ultra lite.
    
    Has any one tried 'turning' fish on ultra lite.
    
    I have been using 'turning' on my 20 lb line and I can land a 
    large bass without getting it over tired.  The fish  is  in
    great shape for the release.  I first heard of this technique this
    spring at a lecture on catch/releaseing of blue fish.  What you
    do is keep the rod at about 45 degrees, sweeping in the opposit
    direction the fish wants to go in.  I tried this with 20 lb line
    on bass and a 2 to  5 lb bass will give up in about 6 to 10 turns.  
    The big advantage is that the fish is in great physical shape for
    releasing.
    
    Has anyone tried this on ultra lite, I know you can not put as much
    pressure on the fish but if it can cut the time in half the fish will
    be in better shape to release plus I won't need as much line.  
    ( I am targeting fish in the 1 to 4 lb class) on 4 lb line forget the
    big carp I see them pull 150 yards of line and keep on going.
    
    thanks john
    
    

    I fish with light/ultra-lite tackle all the time, whether I go to
    Wisconsin or Canada.  I have caught quite a few 8-12 pound Northerns on
    4 to 6 pound.  It is obviously a lot easier to do when you are in water 
    without a lot of weeds and tree branches.  At times I will jig live
    bait on an ultra-lite for walleyes and bass, and I will usually tie
    into a Northern Pike.  It is great fun to catch fish of that size in
    deep water on light tackle.  I will sacrafice the opportunities to
    catch one really big fish with heavy tackle for catching many smaller
    fish on the light tackle.  You do have to be careful with the drag when 
    doing this, but you get used to playing the fish quite quickly and I
    think you will enjoy it more.
    
    Good Fishing,
    Dave
    

    One additional thing: I use Magnathin 4lb line. Great stuff -- in many
    ways.  Super thin, super limp, almost invisible -- looks like other
    brands 2 lb.  It casts forever -- the first several times I used it, I
    was constantly throwing into the trees rather than beside them.
    
    HOWEVER, it is fragile. It gets chewed up easily, and then breaks. If
    you frequently cut off the last foot or so and retie, you don't have
    much trouble.  I retie after catching several fish, after a large fish,
    after EVERY pickeral, after dragging it over rocks, and whenever "it
    seems like time."  The only time have trouble now is when "I knew I
    should have retied!"
    
    Treated with respect, ultralight is great fun on small fish and
    surprisingly capable with large fish.
    
    As a side note: it seems like most of the large balls of mono line you
    find on the banks (you know -- the trash left by idiots...) is heavy
    line -- 15-20 lb; rarely light line (6lb or less).  Do you think this
    might mean that most of the trash is left by imcompetant bozos, and
    that the serious fishermen have more respect?  Or does it just mean
    that there aren't many light line types?

re: .11 - Over the years I've thought about the snarls of line left lying 
around, and I've come to the conclusion that they're left by rank
beginners. They're usually made up of cheap, stiff & kinked line, the
kind that comes on your $6 Zebco or noname combo. These snarls frequently
have bobbers and humongous snap swivels somewhere nearby. Everybody has
to start somewhere, I guess. 

I'd say that sales people should educate the newbies about proper
disposal of old line, but rigs like that are bought in discount stores
and there aren't any knowledgeable sales people there. The fishing tackle
trade is getting pretty good about getting the message out ("this line
has stopped fishing, but it hasn't stopped killing"), but they're
preaching to the choir.

<soapbox off>

Ultra light is relative. I caught a 12# striper on 6# line, a 22# striper
on 12# line, and a 4-3/4 lm bass on 2# line. Besides having a smooth
drag, line that's free of kinks and abrasions, and a good knot, I think
it's important to remember to keep your rod tip up and let the flex of
the rod absorb the quick movements of a fish that weighs more than the
test of the line. He might jerk and jump, but the rod flex can absorb the
jerks and compensate for a quick jump, and keep the line tight. 

One of my ultra light headaches over the years has been finding a good
reel that doesn't throw loops. A 1/16 oz lure doesn't provide much
resistance, so the line wraps on the reel fairly loosely. This
contributes to throwing loops, and that can spoil your day. I used a
Mitchell 408 for a long time, and it was okay, but would throw loops like
crazy if the wind was blowing. Some of the new long-stroke reels are
better at this. One of my friends had a "Quick" or a "Fix" something like
that (possibly made in France) and he swore by it for ultra light.

Art 

    
    I think the reel may have been a "DAM" I have a DAM quick with what is
    called in the UK a Match Spool.
    
    These match spools are long and very shallow, they hold about 150yds
    of 2-3lb line.
    
    I've not had any trouble with loops with this type of spool, and belive
    me it can get quite windy here.
    

	This is from a 1990 Ande mono poster that shows some of the IGFA
records that their lines hold, or held that year:

	Fish		Weight		lb. tst.

	Amberjack	46-8		4

	Barracuda	32-8		4

	Bluefish	16-12		4

	Bonefish	11-12		2
	Bonefish	13-1		4

	Cobia		43-1		4

	Dolphin		37-0		2
	Dolphin		38-0		4

	Red Drum	12-13		2

	Jack Crevalle	13-8		4

	King Mackerel	37-0		4

	Striped Marlin	132-0		2

	Tarpon		54-0		2
	Tarpon		108-0		4................


	Needless to say, the light line is capable of handling some -very- 
large fish!  The key to it is taking care of -all- of the details:

	Proper leader (if required)
	Absolutly smooth, clean drag
	Reel with proper capacity
	Top quality line (if you're after an IGFA record you should be buying
			  a "class" line that will break just below the rating.
			  Some 2 lb. "regular" lines will test almost double.)
	Constantly check line for nicks etc. An easy way is to run the line
			  over your lips or tongue.  Try not to hook yourself 	
			  when you do this!
	Longer, softer rods protect the line from sudden forces.
	Practice your knot tying until it is perfection....

	Enjoy the U-L, it's a blast, just be aware of tiring a fish too much,
and spend the time to revive it...  Unless it's going to be dinner.

					B.C.

    If I lived on Lake O, I'd try for the light tackle
    record on King Salmon.
    
    Go for it, Lee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Gone fishin
    Gaff

    I use a Berkley IM6 Lighting Rod   
    
    4'6"  UL Spinning  rated for 1-6 lb line with 1/16 to 1/4 oz lure
    
    I got it as a promotional deal, at first I though that a high performance
    IM-6 graphite would not make a good  UL rod, but this one does.
    It bends in the middle (about 2' 3") and when I have a large fish on the 
    tip of the rod is about even with the reel. It allowed me to keep a constant
    tension on the fish with the spring action of the bowing  of the rod.
    
    
    I left it on the bank one day, it was gone, I hope a young person found
    it and is enjoying fishing.  It took me 30 seconds once I realized it was
    gone to buy a replacement rod.  I look at the fiberglass 4 ft rods,
    they were nice, they seem to have better action but were $10 more.
    
    
    I was using  magnathin line on reel I lost  and I agree it is great
    stuff, currently I am using my zebco ul4 clasic as I had one on my
    ice fishing rod so I did not replace the one I lost.
    
    Any recomendations for a good UL spinning real that is about or under
    5 oz?
    
    Not to many out there, this is a list I have made up:
    
    SHIMANO Aero Spirex SR500F is 5.7 oz  4.2:1 gear-ration  4/100 line cap
    SHIMANO AX          AX-ULS    5.2 oz  4.2:1              4/100
    QUANTUM micro       MS00      5.9 oz  4.4:1              4/100
    QUANTUM Trigger     MT1       4.9 oz  5.4:1              4/60
    ZEBCO   Classic     UL4       4.7 oz  4.1:1              4/60
    Abu Garcia          MAX UL    5.5 oz  5.4:1              6/80
    Mitchell            C10UL     5.8 oz  4.9:1              4/140
    Mitchell            410       5.8 oz  4.7:1              4/230
    
    most all others I have seen are over 6 oz, (note the Shimano Aero
    Spirex I have seen listed at both 6.3 oz and the 5.7 not sure which is
    right).  Most of the reels are in the 20 to 30 dollar range except for
    the Shimano Aero.
    
    The only one I have use is the ZEBCO UL4, it cast great, is easy to use
    but after about a year the line seem to start hanging up, however, all
    I have to do is take it apart, clean and oil it for another year.  The
    drag is smooth and the adjustments are linear.
    
    
    john
    
    

    Most of the talk about UL has been light line, 6# and under.  I tend to
    think of UL as using light tackle relative to the size of the fish. 
    We've gotten 175# blue sharks on 50# line and #130 yellowfin tuna on the
    same outfit.  Last year Dennis and I got a giant bluefin that dressed
    at 447# on 130# dacron with a 200# leader.  And I've heard of a few
    giants in the 600#+ range being caught on penn 50tw's with 130# mono. 
    I'ld like to try for the IGFA giant 30# class record which stands
    around 161#'s.  If the quota gets cut in 1/2 next year, then that might
    be something to try for.
    

RE: last few

	From memory, the Chinook (King) world record is 97- something...
If you want that record the -only- place to fish is in/around the Kenai River
in Alaska.  Of course if you pick a light class line you may be able to find
something closer to home...

	Chinook Salmon	67-4	12 lb.

	

	I don't have any listing on the Ande chart for Blue shark, but there
are a few other interesting ones...

	Mako Shark	9-12	4 lb. tst. (yes, that's nine lbs.!  Bet it was
					   one little handful of nasty!)

	Hammerhead	335-0	12 lb.

	Tiger Shark	362-8	12 lb.

	Bigeye Tuna	329-0	30 lb.

	
	Please remember that these are only some of the records that were 
held by one line company in 1990....

					B.C.
line company (Ande).

    All tackle record for blue shark is 410 lbs, caught off cape cod. The
    women's record is a few ounces more, caught by the wife of the guy who
    has the men's record. I think they were caught in 1954 or so.

    "All tackle record for blue shark is 410 lbs, caught off cape cod. The
    women's record is a few ounces more, caught by the wife of the guy
    who has the men's record. I think they were caught in 1954 or so."
    
    If her record is a few ounces more then his wouldn't that make her's
    the all tackle record?
    
    Signed,
     Confused                                                                               

    I just happened to remember it from a book I saw years ago in which
    they differentiated between male and female anglers. I dunno whether
    they still segregate like that, but I think they do.

       John, please read my VAXnote# 39.7 (5 lb. Largemouth on 4 lb. test)
    
    								73,
    								Bob