Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

The reel you use depends greatly on the type of fishing you plan to do.  Is 
it for fresh water or salt water fishing.  Will it be used for casting 
lures and plugs or trolling?

If your intent is to use it for casting, then be prepared for some 
frustration and numerous backlashes (pros call them "professional 
overruns") until you get the hang of casting.  Learning to control the 
speed of the spool with your thumb is the critical part, and that only 
comes with lots of practice.  

Many of us have used baitcasters for years, and I doubt even the most 
experienced of us can deny that we don't get "overrums" on ocassion.  But 
once you've master the technique, you'll find that you can quite far and 
with great accuracy.

Suggestion:  find a friend who has baitcasters and knows how to cast and 
have him (or her) give you some lessons before you invest in one.  
Understand, however, a couple hours of practice is not enough to become 
accustomed to the reel, and it will take many more hours before you gain 
confidence.  The first lesson, will, however, give you a sense of what bait 
casting is like, and whether or not you feel confident enough to pick it up 
and continue practicing to get better.

Good luck!

Joe

    
    
    		Some more info eh, I'll be using it primarily for
    	lure casting fishing at my favorite LM bass holes.   Can
    	you recommend any brands or model numbers.  As with any 
    	hobby I understand prices vary quite a bit, but I'm a firm
    	believer in you get what you pay for.  Also what would be 
    	the best type of line to use ie monofilament, braided etc...
    
    
    						Sharkski

    baitcaster.....
    
    I've used a baitcaster for some years now and quite honestly it
    required a whole season before I could get the lure anywhere near
    where I wanted it to go. Most of my practice was in the fine art
    of undoing the "rats-nest". I am now very comfortable with this
    type of reel and wouldn't trade it for the world. 
    
    There are many good brands on the market. I use Shimano baitcasters
    and Abu Garcia. These reels are best with heavier line as well as
    the new braided stuff. One very important feature to compare when
    shopping is the weight. When I got my Abu Garcia I really didn't
    pay much attention to this aspect. Some baitcasters are much heavier
    than others so if you use it mostly for casting as opposed to trolling
    you want to stay as light as possible.
    
    I was watching Roland Martin one morning and he had a neat trick for
    backlash problems common with baitcasters. Tie your bait on and cast
    it out. Before you engage the bail place a strip of scotch tape across
    the line, effectively tapeing it down. Now your backlash problem is
    significantly minimized because you will only release to the tape.
    Granted heavier lures draw more line and you may have to "calibrate"
    every now and again but I've found this to be helpful when I was 
    learning. Good luck...
    
    							Tony... 
    

I've had good experiences with Ambassadeurs in the $40-$60 price range.
You can get a reel with magnetic braking and 3-4 ball bearings in that
price range. About ten years ago, when most reels were $25-$40 we bought
a super-duper one for $80. It had an atrociously small line capacity and
gave us "professional overruns" (aka backlashes) about every third cast.
We returned it.

I've been using 8# and 10# mono line on mine. I bought some DuPont
7-20(?) oval line for a larger casting reel that I use for big lures, and
it does okay.

One of my quirks limits my choices: I want to cast right hand and crank
with my left. This translates to what the manufacturers call Left Hand
models, and not all reels are made with LH models. In fact, I recently
-um- came into some money, and set out to buy a new casting reel. I had
it in mind to buy one in the  $120-$160 range. Couldn't find one made in
LH. I'll stick with my Ambassadeur.

ARt

    I don't have much to add, except to say don't be scared off by the
    warnings of how long it will take you to learn how to cast it.  Your
    mileage may vary....  I've fished almost exclusively with spinning
    reels, until I bought a baitcasting reel for striper fishing.  We
    took it in the parking lot of the store for the salesman to show me
    how to cast it.  I was casting light jigs just fine by the 3rd cast.
    I still get backlashes, but not significantly more than I do with 
    spinning reels.
    
    Bottom line, give it a try.
    
    Mark,
    

    For years my standard answer was just get one with a lifetime warranty,
    but those are few and far between these days, only on a few real high
    end models.
    
    As stated, most of the major manufacturers make good stuff.  No need to
    drop more than $50 bucks on your first baitcaster.  An ABU or Daiwa in
    the $50 range is a fine reel.  As I'm sure was mentioned, make sure it 
    has magnetic as well as friction brakes.  The magnets are real helpful
    when your learning.  Just follow the instructions in the box on setting
    the brakes and you should do ok.  As stated, you will have backlashes. 
    
    I use primarily baitcasters, although the last couple of years I've
    been downsizing a little and using spinning tackle more frequently.
    
    I use baitcasters for spinnerbaits, crankbaits, topwaters and heavier
    jigs. I use spinning gear for most plastics and small topwaters.
    
    Tried a big spincast reel last year for flippin' but found the low
    retrieve ratio real nerve wracking while fighting big fish after a 
    long pitch/cast. 
    
    For learning to cast a baitcaster I'd suggest getting a med/hev action 
    rod and tossing a spinnerbait.  Spinnerbaits got enough beef to them to
    make it a little easier for ya.  Go with something around 14lb test
    too, easier to untangle than the lighter lines.
    
    tight lines, 
    
    -donmac

    Like others said the reel is personal preference.  Buy quality and much
    of your problems will diminish.
    
    My only advise if your hell bent to get a baitcaster is go to spags and
    buy 3/8 oz yellow plastic casting practice plugs.  They are square
    sided so they don't roll all over on the retrieve.  Get a big plastic
    hulla hoop, go to your back yard and practice there before you hit the
    water.  Learning to baitcast on dry land is going to save you loads of
    headaches before you hit the water.  The minute you hit the water, get
    that bass fever in your body, trying a bait caster for the first time
    is absolutely a guarentee you'll get so birdnested you'll have to cut
    the line off and start from scratch.
    
    When I started I bought an Abu XLT synchro.  This has a pop out side so
    you can remove the spool in seconds and replace it.  I found a couple
    of times I had to do that because after 10 minutes the nest was still
    there.  Its not a bad reel and makes a good first baitcaster.
    
    Brian

The more line you put on it, the higher the chance of backlashes.  I fill mine
about 2/3 of the way.  It cuts down on your distance by a bit (maybe 20%), but
the frustration level goes down as well.  As you get better, you can put more
line on it and increase your distance.

Tim

Thanks for starting this topic!  I just started casting with a baitcasting
reel last year, and I love it.  After you get over the hump of getting a
backlash on every other cast, you may agree with me that they are far less 
trouble than spinning reels in many ways, and just plain more fun.

They weigh a whole lot less than spinning reels.  You can (must) control 
the cast much more precisely.  You can get way, way more distance that a
spinning reel, with way more accuracy.

The line doesn't twist and tangle when it is hanging loose off the reel, 
so you can pull 20 or 30 feet off when untangling a backlash, and then just 
reel it back on using your other hand to maintain line tension.  Try that 
with a spinning reel.

No twists develop when a fish makes a long run.  The line comes straight off
a spinning reel's spool when the fish is running against the drag.  Then when 
you reel it back in you put one full twist in the line for each revolution of
the bail.  With a casting reel the line goes back on the reel the same way 
it came off.

With a super slow retrieve, you can likewise maintain line tension with your 
other hand.  You just can't do that with a spinnning reel because the line 
is too far from the rod.  So you reel it in with no tension, and on the next 
cast this wad of tangled line goes flying halfway through your guides.  At 
night.  With the stripers busting right at your feet.

You grab the body of a casting reel in your hand during the retrieve, and
the angle your wrist makes is much more natural.  I do a lot of fishing
where I am casting and retrieving constantly for hours, always with the
rod tip down so I can get maximum force into a long distance hookset.
It really makes my wrist ache having my hand constantly twisted down like 
a spinning reel makes you do.  I get no fatigue at all from a casting reel.

Tom

I can give you a few pieces of beginner's advice.  I've been practicing
a lot and am well on my way through the learning curve.  At first adjust 
your spool friction control so the lure drifts slowly to the ground.  Then
try to rid yourself of this crutch, because relying on it leads to even
worse backlashes.

Teach yourself never to let your thumb come off the spool.  With the spool
adjusted so the lure falls slowly, you can keep your thumb off the spool
for the whole cast and have no problem.  Until you try to cast a little 
further.  The higher acceleration when you really zing one out there will 
give you a backlash every time unless you keep your thumb on the spool, 
especially right after the start of the cast.  So you only need the spool
tension set like I suggested until you have taught your thumb to stay put.

Some of the newer reels, Shimano and one by Quantum, have adjustable
centrifugal brakes where you can change how many of the weights are free
to move.  This sounds like a great idea, as the centrifugal brake acts
most at the very start of the cast where you need the most spool control.

Use the tip of your thumb, not the pad.  It's much easier to control the
spool with the tip, while the pad rests on the reel's crosspiece or spool 
release bar.  A pro showed me that at the Worcester expo.  It would have
taken me forever to figure it out myself.

Start off casting sidearm until you can control which way the lure goes.  
If you cast overarm, the lure will go straight down for an instant and 
really gross backlash.  When you think you are ready for overarm, start by 
casting at a real high angle and then work your way down.  Soon you will
be able to cast with real authority and in a horizontal trajectory, with 
your thumb determining how far the lure goes.  That's very important when
snap casting when fish suddenly start breaking.  With spinning tackle
your index finger just doesn't have as much control, so popups and 
grounders result right when you need the perfect cast.

Don't cast hard into the wind until you have had some practice.  The wind 
stops the lure quickly and the spool keeps right on going.  You need to
develop your thumb reflexes a bit.  Magnetics seem to help here more than 
friction controls.

Whew.

    I disagree with setting your magnetic resistence when you begin.  It
    creates a bad habit from the start that you eventually have to unlearn
    if you want to take full advantage of a baitcaster. 

    The magnetic brakes need to be set properly if you want to use them
    as they were designed. I agree that some people feel that using 
    your thumb as the main control is a key, but the brakes can take the 
    human error out of it. To properly set your brakes you should be able
    to reel the lure to the rod tip set your brake to 5 and giggle the 
    lure down toward the ground. If the lure falls more than 10" adjust the 
    brake by the handle (on ABU anyway) and repeat the test till the drop
    is around 10". You can then start casting, if the distance is not what
    you want at first, but you feel comfortable and you have not gotten
    any backlashes you can back off the brakes even more. You do use your
    thumb on this technique but only slightly. On a windy day I move the
    brake to 7 to stop backlashes occurring if I cast into the wind by 
    mistake. The other thing is the technique of turning the reel on the 
    cast so that the reel is parallel to the ground with the reel handle 
    facing up at you at the end of a cast. This allows for the line 
    to flow off of the reel more freely. 
    
     As stated earlier reels are a personal preference. And like anything
    practice,practice,practice. I do have a complete article on using 
    a casting reel (Field & Stream) If anyone is interested in it drop me
    a line and I'll get you out a copy. I'm pretty sure it's in one of 
    my boxes from previous moves.
    
     Regards
    
     Don B,  MKOTS1::Bourgault 264-4864

<    human error out of it. To properly set your brakes you should be able
<    to reel the lure to the rod tip set your brake to 5 and giggle the 
<    lure down toward the ground. If the lure falls more than 10" adjust the 
<    brake by the handle (on ABU anyway) and repeat the test till the drop
<    is around 10". You can then start casting, if the distance is not what

   Boy is this different from what I was taught...

   I was told, and used successfully, to set the mag brake to center, adjust the
mechanical break to where the lure falls freely to the ground, but the spool
stops turning when the lure stops (i.e. no overrun). Now you can make fine
adjustments to the magnetic brake to account for wind conditions and "klutz
factor" on any given day.

   To my way of figuring, if I don't get some minor overrun every 10th cast or
so, then I probably have my brakes set too tight and I'm losing distance. When
the minor overruns get down to 1 in 5 casts, then it's time to tighten the mag
brake a little more. 

Each to their own...

Al

I grew up learning to cast with a Penn Squidder reel. I used to fish almost
every day during many summers surfcasting from the rocks in Hampton harbor. I
agree that when you really rip off a "good one" you can send your lure/bait a
mile. But, you never really know when the reel would backlash and make a mess. I
feel that I was pretty good at casting that reel. Later in life when I got my
very own spinning reel, I couldn't believe how much easier it was to use (and to
fish). Spinning has its own problems, but to me, they are much less severe. The
last thing in the world I want to worry about on a dark night is trying to
untangle my reel. For me, spinning is just a whole lot easier.  I know how
baitcasting reels require reel skill (pun intended), but why make life more
complicated? Maybe if I entered casting distance championships I'd buy a
baitcasting reel, but for everyday use, spinning still makes more sense to me
for surfcasting.
I know folks swear by baitcasters, and you can get good at them, but, WHAT A
PAIN. Is this just a fad? Other than some casting distance or the ability to
pull in a BIG fish, I think I'll stick to spinning.

...bill_who_still_has_a_groove_in_his_thumb


p.s. I could be converted again if I saw something that is really better...

    I agree with Al (.14) about setting up your reel. I also believe bait
    casters work much better than spinning reels when you are flipping in
    heavy cover and need that 25# line. You need the backbone that a
    baitcaster can give you, however you will find a resurgance of spinning
    reels being used for bass because of their ability to handle light
    tackle. I think they both have specific purposes and thats why I carry
    both types in my boat.
    
    Pete
    
    PS: I prefer Diawa, but that's personnal preference.

    re: Hmmm... Sounds like mebbe you shoulda had a (pro) work with you on
        the spinning technique as well...
    
    I gotta stick up for Tom here.  Although Tom introduced himself as
    a beginner baitcaster, he is a VERY experienced fisherman, expert rod 
    builder and I'm sure he's forgotten more in the last half hour about 
    the physics and mechanics of rods and reels than I'll ever know.. 8^)
    
    -donmac 

    	All I can say is that there may be some good info in this string
    but an awful lot of it also defies the laws of physics!  Any beginner
    would be better off reading a few books on the subject to see what some
    of the experts have to say.  
    
    			Blows my mind...
    						B.C.

Re .17

>>     Hmmm... Sounds like mebbe you shoulda had a por work with you on the
>>  spinning technique as well...

Hmmm... Kinda strange choice of words.  Not the way Mr. Moderator wants us
talkin to each other :-)  Also sounds like you missed my points about line 
twist and slow retrieves altogether.  

Let's assume the line has been put on the reel correctly.  When you cast and 
retrieve everything works like it should.  The line goes back onto the reel 
the same way it came off, so nothing changes from one cast to the next.  

But when a fish runs against the drag, the line is NOT coming off the reel 
the same way it does when you cast.  The spool is revolving and the bail is
standing still.  There are two ways of looking at the twisting.  Either the 
fish is putting one full twist in the line for each revolution of the spool 
as the drag slips, or you are putting one full twist into the line for each 
revolution of the bail when you retrieve the line the fish took.  Either way,
these are twists that were NOT there before the fish ran against the drag.

If you don't believe this, try it.  Tie the line to a tree, loosen the drag,
and walk away 50 feet or so.  Then reel yourself back to the tree.  Repeat
this about 10 times and that 50 feet of line will be a snarled mess if you
let it go slack, and a disaster if you try to cast with it.

This may not be important in freshwater fishing.  But when you catch a few
hot saltwater fish and each one takes 150 or 200 yards of line, it is very 
important.  From a boat you can untwist the line by trailing it behind the 
boat.  But from shore it's not so easy.  One thing I have tried is walking 
the beach with the line trailing behind.

And the point about slow retrieves is likewise a valid point.  When fishing
quiet beaches at night for stripers, the best method is often to cast a
5/8 oz jointed rebel and retrieve it SLOWLY.  Like one turn of the handle
per 5 seconds.  Just enough motion to make it swim slightly.  There is no 
resistance at all when you do this, and no way to create any with a spinning
reel.

If you try to pass the line through your other hand for resistance, you find
you must reach about 2 feet up the rod to do it.  Now you can't hold the
rod securely.  That's with a Penn 550SS sized reel.  It's certainly easier
to do with smaller equipment.  But my point was that it's a trivial thing to
do with any baitcasting reel.

Anyway, with over 20 years of experience with spinning reels and only a few
months of experience with casting reels, I see things the way I called em 
in .10 and here.  As long as I become good enough that backlashes are rare,
and I seem to be getting there rapidly, my guess is that I will continue to
feel that way.  Spinning reels are clearly easier to do easy things with, 
but that doesn't seem to matter to me or to others that enjoy casting reels.
I guess I like imported beer because the caps are harder to remove ;-)

Tom

    Shark,
    
    	See what you went and started 8^).  Skalski read all these notes
    then come and see me.  I fish with baitcasters all the time, I went
    through all the learning curve problems.  I'll get you set-up right and
    help you find a reel.  
    						Gary