Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

    I haven't used any of the new generation kevlar and various braided
    lines, such as spiderwire, but I'm looking forward to checking it out
    at the expos that are coming up.  Besides the demos, it'll be
    interesting to see what the various factor reps have to say about the
    competition.  This should bring out some weak points (along with a fair
    amount of BS probably). 
    
    From what I've read so far, I'm considering it for use on a baitcaster 
    for pitching a jig.  
    
    -donmac

    
    
    	One of the monthly magazines either Sport Fishing or Salt Water had
    	a very extensive article about the new lines.  Some of the positive
    	points that they brought up were that the line did not stretch
    	which gives you much better feel and ability to set the hook.  The
    	very small diameter of the line (about 1/3 of the same mono) was 
    	much better when fishing in very deep water.  The negative points
    	were that people were putting 80lb line on reels that were not built
    	for that weight and the current poles used today have a tendency
    	to break because the line does not absorb any shock like mono.
    	They also said that most rod manufactures will not warranty rods
    	that were broken using the new line.  The most negative point was
    	that currently the manufactures have not been able to come up with
    	any knots that will yield beyond 75% strength which really defeats
    	the high strength capability and high cost.  What they recommended
    	was to either be very careful and aware of the capabilities of this
    	line or wait until the rod and reel manufactures start developing
    	equipment that can handle it.
    
    		George
    

    I've used Fenwick's "Iron Thread" which I think is the same basic stuff
    as Spider Wire. It's kevlar. Very thin. Very slippery. I used it last
    season for jigging cod. I used the 30# stuff. It's the diameter of 10#
    mono. I think it offers great advantages for jigging -- it doesn't
    stretch so you feel every bump, bite and thump on your jig. It's also
    very small diameter and slippery so you get less water drag and get a
    lighter, smaller jig to the bottom. Makes this type of fishing much
    easier.
    
    The biggest disadvantage is tying knots. It's so slippery that you have
    to tie the right knot or it will slip. I use back-to-back uni-knots
    which seem to work ok.
    
    Not being a fresh-water fisherman, I'm not sure how this line will help
    you, but I can say that it is definitely extremely sensitive. I like
    it for jigging small and medium cod, but I wouldn't use it for
    bluefishing.
    
    Hope this info helps.
    
    Art
    

    I see they now sell what looks like super glue for tying knots
    on the Kavlar stuff.  Last year in the late summer I switch over
    to bradied line.  I will never go back to monofilament again.
    
    I just check the catalogs and the Lok-Knot is sold by Stren to
    imporve the efficency of all know .
    
    General comments on braied line, last year the big disadvantage
    was that it came in basic white.  It spooked many a bass, unless
    you use a magic marker or a leader on the first 3 ft or so. This
    year the big imporvment is the "locked-in" colors with low-vis gray
    and high vis green mist.  If you get some stay away from the basic
    white.  
    
    Let me know if you can buy some Spider line, most all the new stuff
    is sold out or never has been in stock yet.
    
    Last year I use the TUF line, since there is only 2-3 % stretch vs
    20-30% stretch you have more control and feel for what is going on
    at the other end.
    
    enjoy 
    
    ps the only one that I know that is shiping is the Silver Thread
    and I have seen the Stren KEVLAR in Wal_MARTS, and one other 
    TUF like (but green) line sold in Wal_Marts In FLA but I have
    not seen it in MA or NH yet.
    
    Average cost is about $10 / 100 yards for the under 30 lb test
    jb
    

    
    Got me wonderring how it'll be in the fall for Lake Ontario
    salmon.  These things, when you nail one, take off at an
    unheard of rate of acceleration!  Nice to have a little 
    stretch available as a cushion before the drags releases,
    also nice to have a 40# line the size of 15.
    
    Fred

       From the description given in Bass Pro Shops catalog, "Spider Wire"
    is NOT Kevlar, and is not braided. It's described as "Micro Filament"
    as opposed to "mono filament". One of the TNN fishing shows--Orlando
    Wilson's--has had some input on this stuff, and he said he uses it just
    like the older mono filament line. Bass Pro Shops does stock the Kevlar
    braided stuff and a number of other super-strength lines though..
    
       The spec I gave in the basenote is incorrect... 15lb test is .005,
    and the 20 pound test is .006. It is NOT cheap, as the Stren 15lb 1000'
    package goes for around 7-8 bucks while the equivalent in Spider Wire
    costs over $29.00!! (Ah heck...it's ONLY money...and men's toys always
    cost more'n kids do!!) Orlando Wilson sez that this stuff is so
    sensitive you feel your worm move....and it's tough, non-stretch and
    almost invisible..
    
      Re .5
      I don't know how much credence I'd place on a "no stretch" claim. I'd
    be really surprised if there wasn't SOME stretch...especially with the
    line lengths you must be talking about. Of course, if you stuck with
    the same line diameter as the 40# you are using currently, you'd be in
    the 120# range with the new stuff. The braided Kevlar may also be worth
    checking out.
    
       B.T.W.: Anyone who wants a Bass Pro Shops catalog can get one for
    the asking. I have the spring sale catalog, but their BIG book costs
    around $4.00 if I recall...but it's worth it just as a "wish book" in
    my opinion..
    
      John Mc

    
       One other thing about lines: I noticed that this year STREN is again
    selling their "Golden" lines. I haven't seen gold stren for aobut 6
    years, and wondered why it hadn't been sold. I used it in the '80's and
    caught LOTS of nice Bass on it when plastic worm fishing in the spring
    and early summer. Some folks told me it wasn't any good because the
    golden color scared fish away, but I have neve seen any evidence to
    support it....and from a 'line-watching' standpoint, it was MUCH easier
    to see a twitch when a Bass picket up a worm using this golden stuff,
    whereas the blue or clear made you rely more on feel than sight..
    
       JM

    Spags in Worcester has both Ultra Max (Berkley) and Kevlar (Sten) for
    these new style lines.
    						Gary

    re: basspro master catalog, they used to charge something like $3 and 
    then give you a $5 coupon, i would typically order one and it'd come
    with the coupon, then a second master catalog would follow, for free,
    without the coupon (it actually worked well that way, one for the
    office, one for home)... anyway stopped ordering/paying for the master 
    catalog a few years ago but still always get one for free... 
    
    -donmac

      Re .9
    
      I had the same thing happen for about 6 years after I stopped
    ordering from them...but I guess they may have finally gotten into
    their computer and purged the files, cause I haven't got the big
    catalog for about 4 years now...but I get the sale catalog spring and
    fall without fail.. I think they automatically send a big catalog to
    people who order anything significant...
    
      JM
    
      ( I just hope that ice is protecting the Bass...can' wait till "ice
    out")

    Ok on Spags carrying the Berkley Ultra_mag,, I got some thew
    the catalogs with the 'invisible gray' ... great print but
    it is a not so white white.   I am going to send it back and
    get the 'visible green mist' instead, but first I will stop
    by spags and see how visible it is.
    
    Measures stretch typical is 3% for the braided stuff 
    and about 20-30 for the mono
    
    Most of my fish are on 30 ft or less of line
             at 30 ft           but at 10 ft
     3% would be 1 ft or less          3.6 in
    20% would be 6 ft...              24.0 in
    30% would be 9 ft... etc          36.0 in
    
    I do not need to do a power hook set and I do have
    better control of the fish, especially when it starts
    walking on its tail, I can pull its head over and get
    the fish back into the water without it getting a chance
    to throw the hook.
    
    yes the line is expensive, but it looks like the life of the
    line is greater then mine.
    
    

    
      I guess the topic should be title-changed to read "super strength
    lines", since there are a few different ones available. I did make a
    mistake in one of my previous replies about "Spider Wire"...it IS a
    braided material...
    
        Here's the "story" re-printed verbatim from a 2-page spread in BASS
    magazine...
    
      "SPIDERWIRE HAS CHANGED FISHIN' FOREVER...HERES THE AMAZING STORY
    BEHIND IT!!"
    
       **WHY THE NAME SPIDERWIRE? Scientists doing research in advanced
    materials have long known that a spider's silk is the strongest fiber
    in the world by a wide margin. Ounce-for-ounce, it's many times
    stronger than steel, yet is is incredibly soft and resilient. In fact,
    the U.S. Government has been funding extensive research with spiders
    and spider's silk for years---attempting to develop lighter-weight,
    bulletproof materials for the military. Well known chemical companies
    such as Dow, DUPont and AlliedSignal have also spent hundreds of
    millions in their attempts to develop the ultimate high strength
    fiber---synthetic spider's silk.
    
      **THE HIGH VALUE OF MOTHER NATURE'S SECRET: Just the military and
    aerospace contracts alone for such a miracle fiber would be
    astronomical. Back in 1965, DuPont scientists thought they had "the"
    ultimate high-strength fiber when they introduced Kevlar(tm), and for
    years it was the strongest man-made fiber available for high stress
    applications like ballistic armor. Then, in 1985, a team of researchers
    at AlliedSignal, Inc. upped the ante by intorducing an entirely new
    class of fiber called "Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene". This
    fiber, now called "Spectra"(tm), easily stops high-velocity bullets and
    bomb fragments. It is a full 30% stronger than Kevlar, more than 10
    times stronger than steel, yet "Spectra" is so light that it floats!
    And, if that isn't enough, spectra is virtually transparent to radar!
    Needless to say, Spectra is quickly finding its way into high-tech
    applications far too sensitive to mention here.
    
     **SPIDER'S SLIK FROM DIAMONDS: The scinetists at AlliedSignal applied
    many of the structural design concepts behind two of nature's strongest
    materials--spider's silk and diamonds--to create Spectra, the world's
    strongest and lithest fiber. Their patented process first realigns the
    carbon atoms in high density polyethylene. Then, this super tough
    material is shot through a nozzle-like device called a spinnerette
    under extremely high pressures. The result--just like what happens with
    the spinnerettes found on a spider---is the excretion of tiny strands
    or micro-filaments of Spectra. These micro-filaments look and feel like
    angel hair or the silky material produced by a spider as it spins a
    web. Soft as silk, with virtually "0" stretch, these micro-fine
    "synthetic wires" are deceptively strong--ounce for ounce they're 10 to
    15 times stronger than steel!
    
      **SPECTRA CATCHES BULLETS AS WELL AS IT CATCHES FISH: Since the day
    Spectra came out of the lab, it has transformed industries, helped
    break world records, and saved countless lives. Spectra was first
    battle-tested in cruise missles and high-tech attack helicopters in
    Desert Storm, and it has journied to space as a super-thin 12-mile long
    satellite tether on the Space Shuttle. Today, light-weight
    "bullet-proof" vests made with Spectra fibers are worn by more than
    300,000 police officers around the world.
    
      ** SAFARILAND'S LONG HISTORY WITH SPECTRA: It was Safariland's
    heritage in the hunting and outdoor sporting industry that led them to
    recognize Spectra's incredible potential as the ultimate fishing line.
    When they took the silky strands of Spectra and braided them together
    with some equipment designed to make high-tech surgical sutures, it
    produced a fishing line so thin and incredibly strong that fishermen
    are now more likely to pull a hardened steel hook straight than break
    their line. The overnight success story is not at all surprising when
    you find out that one of Safariland's main product lines is advanced
    ballistic armor systems. They're experts in fiber technology, having
    worked for 30 years with Kevlar(tm),  Twaron(tm)(another fiber like
    Kevlar)--and for the last 4 years with Spectra. In fact, it was their
    research with high-tech fibers that resulted in the development of a
    thin, ultra-light weight vest made from 100% Spectra. In testing, this
    vest has stopped everything from a submachine gun to a .44 Magnum.
    
     **HIGH STRENGTH, LOW DIAMETER & SHORT SUPPLY: The performance
    advantages of this virtually indestructible, ultra-thin fishing line
    adds a whole new dimension to the sport of fishing. In fact, Spectra
    has created an entirely new class of fishing line some are now calling
    "super lines". That's good news! The BAD news is this stuff is always
    going to be a little 'pricey' and very hard to get. The raw material
    used to make SpiderWire (Spectra fiber) is extremely expensive---50 to
    150 times the cost of nylon! It's hard to get because there's only one
    plant in the world making Spectra and most of it goes for military or
    life-saving applications. Even when Spectra fiber is available,
    Safariland's exclusive micro-braiding process is slow and tedious. It
    takes one machine over 2 days to braid just 1000 yards of SpiderWire,
    and then it is inspected--every inch of the line--by hand! The great
    news is that it outlasts monofilament lines many times over and
    dramatically improves your overall fishing experience. With SpiderWire
    you'll always end up with more fish in the boat and fewer lures in the
    lake.
    
       >GOOD FISHIN'< 
    
    

          Ref the last reply (.12)
    
         SOme of the little "bullets" in this ad are:
    
      **"IT'S JUST LIKE HAVING EYES ON THE END OF YOUR LINE!!"
    
      **"A STRIKE FEELS LIKE YOU'VE RUN OVER A BRICK WITH A LAWNMOWER"!
    
      **"MONO'S FEEL LIKE FAT BUNGEE CORDS AFTER FISHIN' SPECTRA!""
    
      **"WITH SPIDERWIRE...YOU HOOK IT, YOU OWN IT!!"
    
       
          Well, I went and done it: Ordered a 300 yard spool of 30# test,
    color green, at $29.97. Included is a free video with tips and
    techniques for using the stuff. For some reason, the 30# stuff is
    cheaper than 15#($36.97.005") and 20#($40.99.006") for the same 
    quantity. Must be easier to manufacture the 30# than the 2 smaller 
    diameters, although the 30# and 35#($33.97) are both listed 
    as .008 diameter... I think my rods will be able to handle this weight
    without any problem, even with the no-stretch aspect. You're bound to
    get SOME 'give' just from the line in the water, so there should be a
    little 'cushion' even if you slam the rod on a set. I guess (hope) I'll
    find out this spring...
    
          Bass Pro Shops is currently backordered, but they do expect to
    receive a fairly large shipment by mid-February. Since ice-out in good
    old Mass is not until mid to late March, even if they slip a month it
    still will be here before I start to fish...
    
    
       John McD

    Has anyone used this new generation of line on spinning reels?
    
    Gone fishin
    Gaff

    RE: .14
    
    Gaff,
    	It's only a guess, but I would think that the new lines should be
    treated like any other braided line and should be used only on
    revolving spool reels....  But that doesn't mean you couldn't try a
    short spool of some light line just for giggles.
    							B.C.

    
    Gaff 
    
       If breakin off has never been a problem for you, forget
    all the hipe. This line has its place.....the ocean!
    
                                             Kiv

       Wilson was using it with a spinning reel on the TV show, and that's
    what I'll be using it with. It's not just 'breaking off' that it
    changes, but also the sensitivity of light bites and the no-stretch
    aspect....not to mention the durability. With the lighter weight and
    smaller diameter, if you want to throw lighter-then-usual baits 'n
    lures it could be a big help in that area... Supposedly it doesn't take
    a 'set' the way mono does either, which would make it better for tangle
    resistance and line twisting..
    
       John Mc

    Gee now they have bait casters design for  braided line,
    I just got a new issue of BASSMASTER (feb 94) and Abu Garcia
    says it tames the New braided lines by spooling in a 
    XXX pattern to resists diging in.  Ok I never had this problem,
    the #1 reason why I use it is control you have over the fish
    because of the low /no stretch.
    
    Berkley also now has a 7 ft spinning rod design for thier
    braided line, I tried it, (im7 MH) but it felt like a
    steel rod
    
    jb
    

I'm pretty convinced that I'll at least try one of these new lines this year.
The only real question is which one.  I'm planing to hit the show at the
Centrum next week and check out the various mfgrs of these lines.  It will
be interesting to see how each mfgr compares their line against the 
competition.  There also seems to be a fairly wide delta in price, with the
Spiderwire being at the top end.  Is it *really* worth the premium price??

I suspect that I'll end up using the line on a 6'6" medium-heavy rod and work
jigs and larger plastic baits.  I may also try it while striper fishing, but
then again, I can't say that I've had any problems detecting strikes.  It's
not like you're fishing a plastic worm looking for a subtle pickup.

-HSJ-

    	Does anyone know if there are more than two actual manufacturers of
    the new lines?  From what I've read DuPont makes their own Kevlar braid
    and Spectra makes the lines for everyone else.  If this is really the
    case it narrows down the selection process considerably.
    
    	The weakest Stren Kevlar is 70 lb. and if the same mfr. makes all
    the rest of them the only choice would be color and that would be to
    satisfy the fisherman, not the fish.
    						B.C.

    
     B.C.
    
       Fenwick has Iron Thread in 30lb test w/ a dia of about 8 to 10
     lb test. This line has a tighter braid and a textured finish due to
     the polyurethane/silicone coating. I can't wait for the EXPO, just
     to see/talk about these lines. Right now I have NO NEED for them,
     (breaded lines) to me its just a matter of COMPETITION vs SPORTING
     lines. 
    
                                                 Murph

 >>>>>    to see/talk about these lines. Right now I have NO NEED for them,
 >>>>>    (breaded lines) to me its just a matter of COMPETITION vs SPORTING

          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just add some tomato sauce & some cheese and you have:

spectra parmesan!

re:                  <<< Note 337.22 by PEROIT::LUCIA "TUNA!" >>>


Hey, Tim.... you gonna buy some Kevlar line for smelt fishing?!?!

-Joe-

        I don't have my Bass Pro Shops catalog with me, but there are more
    than a few who are making this line and selling it under various names.
    Walmart has Duponts version and a couple of others. NOBODY that I know
    of currently has SpiderWire, but that is due to the demand from the
    military and police and the fact that only one factory is in
    production.
       
        As for the price: Is ANY fishing gear REALLY "worth" the money?? I
    can MAKE spinnerbaits---and have made many and will continue to make my
    own---for around 18 to 20 cents each. If you are REAL lucky, now and
    then you find a sale for these for less than $2.00. That's a pretty
    nice markup!!! If Digital had that kind of profit margin, we'd be about
    30 times the size of GE by now. I don't think it's a matter of WORTH as
    much as it is how much you are willing to pay. I have more lures,
    worms, etc, than most fair-sized sporting goods shops carry....because
    I have a really addictive nature when I get near a springtime display
    of stuff, and this is an addiction that I've had for many years. I
    currently have about 6-7 rods 'n reels...(My wife shakes her head and
    asks me "Why? You only USE one at a time??"...I cannot give a REAL
    answer that makes sense to anyone who isn't into fishing..), a fishing
    tackle box that looks more like a footlocker than anything, and a lot
    of stuff in bags 'n boxes that won't fit into the box....and I'll more
    likely than not get MORE stuff this year... And what's REALLY weird is
    that I haven't actually CAUGHT anything on about 95% of the stuff...my
    primary 'catching' being done with plastic worms (prolly have a bushel
    of various colors 'n flavors) and spinnerbaits....
    
    
       The new lines are sort of like 'wax' records 'n CD's....Wax is good,
    has had many years of satisfactory use by millions, but when you hear a
    CD, you know why it's so popular...
    
    
       John Mc

    I was down Spags last night and they had the "Spiderwire" on sale for
    $16.99. I believe it was 30lb test with the diameter of 10lb.. I
    believe that it was 150 yard spools. They also have the Kevlar down
    there.
    
    Stuff's to expensive for my taste. All I could picture is having my
    trolling motor getting ahold of it. It wouldn't be the first time....
    
    Bob M� 

       Hmm...a LITTLE bit more than Bass Pro Shops, but with the shipping
    and handling I guess it's comparable.. I got a 300 yard spool for $29+
    and a video tape was/is included with that.. One thing I also found out
    is that the stuff is a PAIN to cut with clippers and/or the norman
    fishing scissors. I bought a special scissors for this stuff..
    
    
       B.T.W...I just got an order in from Bass Pro Shops and there was a
    little sale catalog in it....DAMN!! They did it again!! Spinnerbaits
    for .99 each!! CANNOT pass that up...they have either colorado or
    willow blades, tandem spin...usual weights....dialing 1-800-227-7776
    right now! Part #42B 273-304 color 01 is the chartreuse....
    
       John Mc 

    got some, its is a true grey not the off white that others
    seem to be calling phantom gray, I guess I know what phantom means
    
    It has the smallest diameter of all the braids, however if you take a
    look at the photos of the adds you can see two box of 30 lb test
    and each box has a different dia.  It looks like the actual stuff
    is shipping a little bit bigger in dia, but it is still small.
    My 30 lb stuff is .009  (adds is .008)  not big deal.
    
    I use a knife to cut the line, the same one the EME use to cut the seat
    belts, I can not think of the name but it is about $20 list for a
    2 inch blade.  The EME's use the next size up with a blunt tip,
    and it cuts seat belts like a butter knife cuts warm butter.
    
    cheers jb
    
    

    While I was at the Centrum show, I asked a few of the sales reps
    for these new lines how degradable the line is. I heard that it
    is not uv sensitive and in some cases the reps claimed the line would
    last for several years before degrading! The Stren guy said that his
    competetion was claiming that Stren Kevlar degrades 'quickly'. As
    long as the price remains up there I don't anticipate too much of a
    problem - but if this stuff becomes as common as mono, it could cause
    serious damage!
    
    I know I don't have to remind you folks, but I hope all who use this
    stuff will take extra care to dispose of it properly.
    
    			Robert.
    

While at the Centrum, I also chatted with the guy from Stren.  He offered
an interesting little experiment.  He pulled out a competitor's spool of
braided line (it was Fenwick's IronThread) rated at 30 # test, the same as
the Stren Kevlar.  He then had me hold a hunk of the IronThread line real
taught as he took the Stren and crossed it around the line, drew it taught
and then quickly moved the Kevlar back and forth in a sawing motion.

The IronThread parted in no time.  "See how much stronger the Kevlar is 
compared to this other line?  And Fenwick clains theirs is the world's
stongest braided line."  

Hmmm... after that demonstration, I think I probably WON'T buy the Kevlar.
What will Kevlar do to my Fuji rod guides if it cuts through IronThread that
easily??

The rep also pointed out a little tank of water and showed that the Kevlar
sinks, where the other lines tended to float.  Hmmm... that means water 
penetrates the braid whcih means it will freeze up quickly when it's cold
out.

Hmmmm.... what to do??

Did anyone else may any decisions as to which line was the best??  Why?

-HSJ- 

    I work my way threw college in a textile mill, one of the
    products that was made there was a line simular to the new braded
    fishing line. I can remember all the crippled and or  one leged pigons that
    were there for a free hand out at lunch time.  Their legs had been cut
    off or crippled by the wrapping of the line around it.  As they grew it
    would cut threw their leg  until they were crippled or lost it!
    
    The good news is that in using the new line for about two months last
    year I found that I did not have any break offs in the water.  The line
    is tought, the only line that was wasted was what I had to cut off
    after typing my knots.  These end cuts can put into ones pocket and 
    dispose of appropriately.  
    
    However the biger problem might be in the line digging in on the reels,
    it is hard to fix and one might be tempted to cut off the line.  When
    your reel in try to get a good even XXX type pattern with constant
    tension and you should not have this problem.  One can clean up a dig in
    and I think it is easier they clearning up an overdraft on a spinning
    reel as the line is very strong, else you will have to use a razor
    sharp knife to cut the line out... and at $10 a reel you dont want to
    do that...
    
    jb
    
    
    

    I also talked to the guys at the Stren booth and 'saw' that demo.
    
    I asked him if it would damage ceramic guides and he said 
    "all lines will". 
    
    I just gave him a puzzled look and said goodbye. 
    
    Just before that I heard him tell someone else that there's no such 
    thing as a knot that with a break strength over 50%....
    
    I asked the guys at Northern Bass what they thought of the new lines.
    Bob Oja suggested that it will take a lot of getting used to, and 
    the manufactureres are scurrying to come out with new equipment
    designed for it.  All-Star already has a new line of rods designed 
    for it.
    
    I might buy a small spool and try it out for the helluvit on a heavy
    action rod that I haven't been using much, along with my 'worst' 
    baitcasting reel,  and toss around a jig-n-pig.
    
    But I have no plans of moving to it for normal use.  I rarely have
    problems with Trilene XL or Tri-Max breaking. 
    
    I'll stick with what works.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    
    -donmac

    RE: .29
    
    Joe,
    	He's trying to pull a fast one on you.  He's concentrating friction
    in one spot on your line and spreading it out on his line.  You could
    have called him on it and let you do the same test to his line.
    
    	Unfortunatly I think the guys at the Stren booth were from some
    marketing company instead of actual Stren or DuPont reps.  I talked
    with them for a -very- short time...  I don't think they had a clue!
    
    	I wouldn't concern myself with guide wear.  Ceramic guides are a
    -whole lot- harder than -any- line on the market.
    
    	I think too many people are acting like their being required to
    use it...  If it's not for you yet, then don't use it!
    
    					B.C.

I thought about having him do the reverse trick, but only after I left 
the Centrum.  Did anyone call him on it?  The stren guys were pretty 
unhelpful.  They had a scale, but not a line-breaking scale.  Their claim
of 50% maximum knot strength is only applied to kevlar.  I did call them on 
that.  The only knot he had not tried was a bimini twist.  I made a bimini
twist and offshor swivel knot and Bruce & I tugged it to about 45 pounds on
the hand scale (not accurate) -- this was with the 70# line.  They were not
at all convincing, but I'll probably try some anyway.  I'm not worried about
the line cutting my Aftco roller tips or my Penn 113H stainless steel spool.
At that price, I'll have about half a spool of Dacron behind it anyway.

Tim

B.C.

The guy from Stren was more than willing to reverse the demo, i.e. saw the
Stren line with the Ironthread.  I said "Nawwww....I've seen enough."

I would assume that the Ironthread would still break since he was so eager 
to demonstrate it. (Either that or he was a real fool!)

Like DonMac, I'll give one of thes lines a whirl on a jig-n-pig setup or when
I'm fishing grubs for smallies down 30-40 ft.  

-HSJ-

    	Seems like they didn't have a test for the most useful feature of
    the line - its sensitivity. Did they have anything that measured line
    stretch ?
    
    	I think someone else was right on when they said the better
    application was deep saltwater fishing. Even then, I would imagine
    Dacron would give it a run for its money in the stretch department.
    The diameter would be significantly different though, which would let
    you use a smaller jig. Either way it could be expensive if you break
    off a lot of line.
    
    	RAYJ

Ray,

Given all the hype of these new lines, I was very disappointed at how 
little attention was being given to them.  The only booth that had any demo 
was the Stren booth where they touted the fact that Stren Kevlar can cut 
through all the other lines.  Big deal!  My Ginsu knife can do that!

I agree with your comments re: stretch and sensitivity.  It's really too 
bad none of the mfgrs had demonstrations to highlight these features.

If I did much deep-sea fishing, I would probably use one of these lines for 
jigging.  But as you suggested, it could get costly if you got foul-hooked 
on the bottom and broke off.  For that reason, I'd probably tie on a heavy 
mono leader of about 3-6' that was rated less than the braided line.  I 
doubt that there would be enough stretch in that short of a leader to 
affect the sensitivity, and if you got hung up in the bottom, the mono (or 
knot) should give first.

-HSJ-

I have been thinking of using it as leader material for striper fishing.  Sounds
like it's very abrasive resistant and thin.  Use 50lb for the same diameter as
20lb.

I will probably spool some on a bottom fishing rod to be able to use lighter
jigs.

Gordon

    I would not use it as a leader because even though it is thin is
    is still more visable than mono. Also there is the knot issue to
    contend with when joining it line to line. Deep water jiging is
    the ONLY application I see for it. The only benifit over dacron is
    the smaller diameter which should allow a smaller jig to be use.
    
    Bruce

       Re .32
    
       When I read Joe's note, I was thinking the same thing....seemed like
    his 'test' had to be a bit 'rigged'... 
    
       I agree that it'll take some time and gettig used to before this is
    readily popular, and like another reply, I have no real difficulty with
    good old Stren mono...
    
       One thing that I do whenever I'm out there is carry a plastic
    garbage bag and collect as much human pollution as I can carry. I
    realize this may be a bit useless, because the amount exceeds the bag
    almost every time...but at least I'm not leaving more... What I really
    find astounding is the variety of crap that I find!! It seems to be
    coming from everywhere...kids toys, balls, a little fishing debris,
    lots of papers, etc... 
    
      JM

>    I would not use it as a leader because even though it is thin is
>    is still more visable than mono. Also there is the knot issue to
>    contend with when joining it line to line.

 I'm with Bruce. I don't see it as being a viable leader material. To me
the key property of leaders is lack of visibility.

 And I have also wondered about the knot issue in joining with a mono leader.
If this stuff is so tough, might it not cut through mono if suitable precautions
are not taken?

 I would think that deep water jigging is a custom made application for this 
type of line.

    Is all this line of the 20# or heavier type, or is there the 6-10#
    type?
    
    Rick
    
    

    spider line offers the smaller test/dia lines for now
    for example
    test 15# dia = .005 in
    test 20# dia = .006 in
    test 30# dia = .008 in
    test 35# dia = .008 in  (cheapest of all their lines)
    test 40# dia = .013 in
    test 50# dia = .013 in
    test 90# dia = .021 in
    test120# dia = .023 in
    test150# dia = .027 in
    
    I did not have any breaks off with the TUF braid line.  It I got
    caught the hook was more likely to stregthen out. I snag a big snapping
    turtle (about 3 ft dia) and tried to set the hook.  I pulled the title 
    about a foot out of the water and stregthen out the hook!  The line
    never broke.

    The only scraps I had was the cut offs when tying a knot, and that
    one can stick it their pocket until they can find a proper place to
    dispose it.

    However, unlike mono, I did find that the line does not have a uniform
    strength, I found about a 10 ft section that I had to cut off as it would
    break in my hands!  This was after two months of heavy use.  I am not
    sure if  it was from uv or just poor qc.  It was the only bad section
    from two rolls of TUF line.

    There seem to be some other good braided lines, (most in the .013 range)
    I like the rip cord, then the one by silver thread, and maybe the one
    from berkley. I did not like the stren kevlar, maybe for salt water
    but could not figure out what I would do with it, If I lost my 
    super glue how do I tie a knot?  I lost the contest because 
    I lost my super glue...
    
    I did find a cheap privet brand (30 lb test) line in fla, it was about
    $7 per 100 yards and seem to be very similar to the rip cord.

    jb
    
    

    	RE: .41
    		Fenwick has it all the way down to 6 or 8 lb. test.
    
    					B.C.

    Most of the Bass Pros at the Becker College seminar this past weekend
    gave the new lines a cautious 'good for some applications' at best.
    Even the guys sponsored by Stren weren't raving about Kevlar.
    
    -donmac

Hmmm... 

so far, I'm convinced that Kevlar should be great for hauling trees down into
the water to create structure and to hook a ride on a passing freight train...

I'm still undecided on which line I'll try, but it's definitely not Stren's
Kevlar ... mostly because of the line color.  Spiderwire or IronThread are 
at the top of the list right now.

-HSJ-

    Oh yea, Joe's comment reminded me that one of them mentioned using a
    special marker designed for coloring the new line.  Don't forget to
    pickup one of these markers along with the special glue for the knots,
    special cutters, special rod and special reel... -donmac
    

I've tried some of the braided line (Iron Thread, I think) on one bass fishing
trip down south this winter.  There are some things I really liked about it
and some things I haven't decided about yet.

First, one warning.  I wrapped some 20lb on a spinning reel and 30lb on a
baitcaster.  The baitcaster wrap slipped.  That is, the entire wrap
slipped on the spool.  I was able to strip the line off, tie one end to
some 10ft or so of 20lb monofilament, and rewrap it monofilament first.
That took care of the slipping.  I didn't have any problem with the spinning
gear but I rewrapped that as well, just to be safe.  One other warning,
cutting this line with my favorite needle nose pliers proved to be more
of a shredding then a cutting.  Fortunately, my Swiss army knife proved
to be up to the task.  It probably makes sense to get one of the super
sharp and hard scissors Bass Pro offers for cutting this stuff.

That "leads" me into some of the positive points.  This line is limp with
virtually no memory.  I had absolutely NO problem stripping and rewrapping
this line with no special equipment (just imagine the tangle, if I had tried
this with monofilament) .  In using it, there was NO noticable twisting or
tangling.  So, although I need to use it a whole lot more before I decide if
I REALLY like it, it certainly appears to be:

	tangle resistant,
	sensitive,
	strong,
	low stretch (easy hook sets but low shock absorption), and
	easy and long castablity (low diameter).

As for knots, I used the Palmer and Bowlin (? spelling?) knots exclusively.
I had no problems BUT I didn't catch enough fish (sigh) nor did I get hung
up enough to know yet for sure.  I also don't like the colors (DARK gray and
green).  It's plenty visible to me and I would think the fish as well.  I
just don't know yet if it makes a difference.  My previous experience is
pretty much limited to clear monofilament.  The agrument goes that if the
lure presentation and action are good enough, then the line visibility is
insignificant.  I'm not sure if I believe that.  As for durability, time
will tell.

So I'm on the fence.  This coming season and a lot more fishing with should
push me one way or the other.

Lon

    you might want to look at Cabel's RipCord
    I got a roll and it looks like it is one of the
    better lines,  plus it is one of the least expesive
    about the same prices $10 but the roll is 150 yards
    not the normal 100 yards
    they have a 30lb (8 lb  size )   $10
    and         45/12 $12
    and        100/25 $20
    and        200/40 $35
    
    they also sell it in 600 yards at about 3.5 x as much
    as the 150 yard spools
    
    
    I got a sample of the Silvar Three Braid and that looks
    good also.
    
    But I have not seen anyone else beside Spider to sell in
    the below .013 in dia.
    
    I will be going to Fla in March, so I will try to test 
    out the new lines then, else the only experience I have
    had is as I said before is with the TUF braded Line, 
    and it was great.....
    jb
    

      Re .47
    
       Hmmm...with the no-twist/no-memory aspect, it sounds like it would
    be just the trick for plastic worm's rigged Texas style... One of the
    biggest problems with mono is the eventual inevitible twisting and the
    almost automatic huge wad of tangled line that will come off the reel
    at the most inopportune time....
    
       JM

    Here's another alternative:
    
    Offshore Angler has "Magicbraid Spectra"
    
    					300 yd	1200 yd
    30lb	diameter of 10lb mono	14.99	54.99
    50			    14		26.99	99.99
    80			    25		32.99	124.99
    130			    40		43.99	329.99
    
    Features:
    
    	waterproof
    	100% UV resistant
    	40% smaller diameter than mono
    	superior abrasion resistance
    	3% stretch
    	lasts 4 times longer than mono
    
    Color appears to be white from the picture
    
    There's a quote in the catalog from a charter captain:
    
    "spectra- It's not for everybody, but if low stretch, small diameter
    and high chafe resistance are important to you, the new hi-tech
    MAGICBRAID Sprectra line will fill the bill."
    
    You can get free Offshore Angler catalog. Call 800-633-9131. They are a
    division of Bass Pro Shops.

Walmart has the Kevlar line (Stren), but they're only carrying the 70lb
<gulp> test.

I opened a box, and sure enough, it's so thin I'd *never* bet money on it
being more than 6 or 8lb test. It's also very limp. It has a much looser
braid than my Gudebrod dacron, and much fewer strands. It's also a very
ugly bright yellow. The line seemed to have a repetitive kink to it,
maybe every 3/8" or so.

$8.49 for 100 yards (maybe 150).

Reading the box, and reading the catalogs, the uses they list are almost
all jigging, trolling, or "fishing in heavy cover." Does that mean they
don't think it will cast well?

Art

       Re .50
    
       That's a bit surprising....since "spectra" is the material that
    SpiderWire is made from.. But then, I guess the folks who make the
    Spectra filaments can sell them to anyone who they want to.. 
    
       The differences are not tremendous, but the Stren is a "KEVLAR"
    filament and the SpiderWire anf this Offshore Angler stuff is made from
    the "Spectra" material... Both are a lot stronger than monofilament,
    with the Spectra being a little stronger than Kevlar.
    
       JM

    I think this Magicbraid stuff is a pretty good deal. By way of
    comparison, here are some other choices from the Offshore Angler
    catalog:
    
    			#test	yds	price
    Fenwick Iron Thread	  30	275	34.95
    			  30	500	64.95
    			  80	125	29.95
    			  80	250	59.95
    			  80	500	119.95
    
    (Note: Fenwick also sells 6#, 8#, 14#, 20#, 40#, 50#, 100#, 130# at
    similar prices. The least expensive is 14# @ $22.95/150 yds, but the 6#
    and 8# are $34.95). By the way, if you like the Fenwick stuff, these
    are good prices. My wife bought me a spool of 100 yard 30# last year and
    paid $20.
    
    Berkley Ultra Max	  40	100	9.94	(comparable to 14#mono)
    			  60	100	10.94	(              25#    )
    			  80	100	12.94	(              30#    )
    
    Stren Kevlar	  30	100	7.94
    			  30	300	18.88
    			  70	100	8.88
    			  70 	300	19.88
    			 110	100	11.88
    			 110	300	26.88
    
    Stren Lok-knot	$2.99/10 oz.
    
    I've used the Fenwick Iron Thread and like it a lot, but it's too
    expensive. All of these lines, by the way, are very slippery and the
    lok-knot stuff is a good idea. I also agree with all the previous
    comments about this line -- great for deep jigging (codfish, etc.),
    allows you to fish with lighter jigs, highly responsive, but hard to
    cut and hard to get a knot to hold. Overall I like it for
    codfishing/bottom fishing. Not sure I'd use it for high-impact fishing
    like blues and stripers. I kind of like mono's ability to absorb the
    shock of a bluefish hit. 
    
    I think I'm going to splurge 15 bucks and order some Magicbraid and put
    it on my bottom fishing rigs.
    
    Art
    

Winter got to me this weekend, so I decided to load up
three reels with three different braided line, then I 
put on a 3/8 oz plastic weight to see how they casted.

The Lines I tried were:
  1 -	Spider Thread  
  2 -	Iron Thread
  3 -	Sliver Thread Braided

First... I  wished that they were all honest about line diameter, 
several adds are pure Marketing bull, most braided lines are flat!
They might have a length to width factor of 3:1, then they call the
smaller side of the rectangle the diameter! SO don't be surprise 
that the line looks a lot bigger then you expect, they lied.


SPIDER WIRE TEST

The sample of Spider Thread That I had was flat, so I decide it
would not be good for a spinning reel so I had better put it on
my bait caster. My next surprise was loading the line using a 
line loader. The Line loader has two brass eyelet that are used to
guide the line and to control the loading tension.  After
loading the reel with the spider wire the eyelets were clogged with junk. 
I think it was wax.  I guess they use a colored wax to add the color
to their white line.    

OK now for casting test!  I put a 3/8 oz. plastic weight and went after
a snow fish.  I had no problem with casting the line and it gave
about the same casting distance that a good mono line would.. 



IRON THREAD

Next I pull out the IRON THREAD, it was the 8 lb test with
a 3 lb dia... It truly was what they said it was.  The line
is round and has a very small diameter.  I loaded it on my
spinning reel with not problems (ie no wax build up in the
bass eyelet).  I did the same test with the 3/8 oz plastic
weight and it casted better then the 10 lb mono line that
was on the reel.  I spent a lot of time with this one as
I was truly impressed.



SILVER THREAD  

Then I tried the Silver Thread Braid, it look round, and they
were honest on it size 40lb in a 12 lb line or was it 10lb.
Any how it was about that. It loaded fine, however I got about
10% shorter cast with it, plus there was a wrap warp type noise
as the line went out that must be the reason for the shorter
cast.  The line did not feel as silky smooth as the others.


OK Now for 55 deg water temperature to put it to the real test.
postpone until ??? maybe 15 Apr after I pay my taxes..

However summary of My first impression are:

Spider Thread -- bigger then expected, I will only us it for casting reels
Iron Thread   -- seem to be the best but also the best in price
Silver Thread -- seem good somewhat disappointing in casting distance.


PS got to try the new braided line scissors made by Clupret they
   worked great... I would give them a triple A rating..

    

    THe Fenwick Iron Thread is a braid that consists of dozens of strands
    of polyethylene and has a silicone coating for ease in casting.  I
    think this must be the reason it cast better then any other braided
    line I have tried.  It will be interesting to find out how the silicone
    coating will last with used.
    
    cheers jb
    

    	I just got back from one week of fishing at Sam Rayburn in Eastern
    Texas. Two of us in the boat fishing for one week in the same
    conditions. One useing T.U.F. line (KEVLAR) and one using mono.
    
    	First, I used 20 pound Stren XL on a 7'6" flippin' stick with an
    ABU 521 . My pard used 30 pound T.U.F on same length rod with an ABU
    821. We both fished Carolina rig with 6' to 7' leaders in weed beds
    in shallow (3 feet) to moderately deep (17 feet) water. The T.U.F line
    was smaller. I realize 20 to 30 is apples and oranges but we couldn't
    find 20 pound T.U.F. 
    
    	Several things jumped out.
    
    	T.U.F didn't cast as good. Probably about 80% as far. A 1 oz sinker
    on a 7 1/2 foot rod will really fly with Mono. Can sometimes take half
    of the reel. T.U.F was braided and drug through the eyelets noticably.
    It did, however, have vertually no memory and nests where easy to clear
    and almost non exsistant.
    
    	17 pound leaders would break on hookset. We think the reduced
    stretch of the T.U.F was too much for the leaders. 4 leaders snaped the
    first hour. One at hook, One at swivel and 2 mid leader. Abrasion could
    have been a factor. A 7' leader does some snakey things in flight.
    
    	We converted to T.U.F leader and all breakage stoped. 1 breakoff
    in 5 days. The Mono averaged 4 a day. 
    
    	The sensativity was almost unreal. We drifted weedlines, sometimes
    covering a mile, with 30 yards of line out. The mono stretch was
    substantial but the T.U.F was almost zero. Made the bites seem like
    someone slaped the end of your rod. We bent one Eagleclaw 3/0 hook
    on one "nice" fish. 
    
    Drawbacks.
    
    	You can forget pulling the line in half when you snag. This stuff
    stoped the boot one windy day while drifting and still didn't break.You
    could use some series amount of line on any snag unless you can pull
    the hook straight. 
    
    Knots also where an issue. Clanch and improved clanch would sinch up
    too soon when tieing but slip when stressed. The Polomar seemed to hold
    just fine. Also, Swivels will pull open, even the locking type.
    
    All in all, the tackle we saved payed for the line.
    
    	I guess the true test is if you will buy it again. My answer is 
    
    			Yes.
    
    jim  (sunburned in K.C.)
    
    
    	P.S. We caught the fish in prespawn pattern. The weather drove the
    bucks off the beds, it was that close. Our party (2 boats) boated 2 
    8 pounders, 1 6 pounder, several 5's, 4's and 3's. In fact, we only had 
    8 dinks the whole week. We caught keeper fish every day. 
    
    Carolina rigged Zoom Lizzards (Watermellon seed) with Rattles and
    red shad Sluggos. 

    RE: .56
    
    	Good report.  And the T.U.F. is sort of a generic line too...
    Makes me think about some of the coated line (Iron Thread maybe?) for
    my Striper fishing this year.....  Thanks.
    
    						B.C.

    I have found a simple an interesting test for evalualting which of 
    the new braided lines will have the best potential when use with a 
    spinning reel.
    
    It is a simple test, 
    Tape one end of the line to a sounding board, 
    (I used a piece of stiff cardboard) and run the line threw you finger nails.
    You might want to twist the line as some of the line is flat.  This
    will insure you are trying both sides.  The courser the braid the more
    motor boating sound you will hear.  Try it on a mono line, it will be
    a high pitch wishsssssss.  Once you get use of doing this test you can
    almost do it on the reel at the store.
    
    The higher the pitch and the lower the strength of the motor boating like
    sound seems to give the lowest drag factor with the guides.
    
    Also Check you finger nail after, if it has a grove in it... think
    twice before using it on your guides.
    
    I tried it on about 9 different braided lines and the casting distance
    on a spinning reel was related to this simple test.  The higher the
    frequency with the lowest volume did cast better. There was about
    a 10 ft + casting difference between the lines.  I have not idea yet
    on what will happen as the line ages or  when it is wet etc.
    
    I could also see some memory in some of the lines,   if you repeat
    the test 4 to 6 times the line would end up looking like a spring.
    However - repeating this test with a wetted line and  I have not
    found one that seem to have a memory.
    
    A simple test to see if the line is a flat braid or not, just roll
    the line between your fingers. The line now will either look the
    same or more like a twisted ribbon.  The cheaper braided lines in
    the 30 lb plus range most likely will be a flat braid.  They work 
    good in a bait caster but so so on a spinning reel, however a flat
    line to one extreme might bite in more  causing the line to get stucked, 
    some bait caster real in a XXX type pattern and are not as likely to 
    'digin' as much as the others.
    
    jb
    
    

    Does anyone have any comments on how well these new braided lines might
    work ocean fishing in Florida.
    
    I'm concerned about two things: visibility and abrasion resistance. The
    pros in Florida who I've talked to about Dacron tell me that it doesn't
    stand up well to coral -- mono is much better -- and that it's too
    visible -- the water in Florida is very clear.
    
    Do the same issues apply for Iron Thread or Spider Wire, etc? I suspect
    from what I've been reading that they are more abrasion resistant than
    Dacron and might work ok reef fishing. But what about visibility --
    would it spook a grouper or snapper?
    
    I appreciate any ideas/thoughts. I'll be heading down there for a
    vacation at the end of April and want to bring the right gear. Thanks
    for the help.
    
    Art
    

    
    Does anyone know if there is a UK dealer for this stuff yet? Sound
    great for long range Beach casting we do here. I may even break the
    record ( around 295yards, I think)
    

    
    I've decided to give this stuff a try, in an effort to beat my
    distance record.
    
    Can anyone recomend a chhep US mail order Co, who could mail some of
    this stuff to the UK? or anyone visiting here soon?
    
    Thanks. 

    bass pro has it in stock, but only the larger dia.
    If you are going for distance then you will be
    better with the smallest dia Iorn thread...
    but it more expensive then Spider.  I havd not idea
    if they ship overseas or not.    I find that
    I get 10% shorter cast with the spider thread then
    with a good mono.   I get about the same with
    the iron thread (6 lb test with a 2 lb dia).  I am
    not sure how it will change with life as the line
    (Iron Thread) that help with casting.
    
    john
    

Hi all,

On Saturday, Bruce & I went on the maiden cod trip of 1994 for the
Sweet Dream II.  This year, we split a 1000' spool of 70# Stren
Kevlar line.  The two words that best describe it are: "It's Thin!"
It's sensitive, no stretch, low drag, etc.  We were able to hold
bottom with a light jig in a fairly good breeze.  The only real
drawback that I observed was that the line does not have good
knot strength.  Even with LockTite, all three jigs we lost broke at
the knot and not even close to 70#.  I've had 50# dacron and a snagged
jig hold the boat in similar wind conditions.  Not so of this stuff.

Knots we tried: palomar, improved clinch and doubled-line improved
clinch.  All three broke fairly easily.  I put a bimini twist (with 
LockTite on the bimini) and offshore swivel knot on my rod, but didn't
hang another jig, so the jury is still out on how well this knot
will work.  I really wish the Stren rep at the Worcester show had
a line testing machine.  I'm planning to do some tests with a 50#
spring scale.  I'm almost positive the jigs we lost broke at less
than 50#.

All in all, I'm quite pleased.  ONE WORD OF WARNING: The stuff will
cut into you with little effort.  Make sure you don't let it slip
across your fingers!  I also found it a bit painful to keep my thumb
and index finger on the line while jigging 'cause after a while, it
started to dig in.

Tim

Re: Spiderwire

Sent an order into BPS last week and was informed that Spiderwire was 
backordered out into October!  Don't know if that meant all # tests, but 
don't hold your breath for it.  It seems that the order I placed back in 
February for the 30# test has shipped, so I'll get to try it soon.

Tim... keep us posted on what knots yu find to work the best.

-Joe-

    I could see how it could be good for bottom fishing in the salt, but
    I'm not at all impressed with the kevlar for freshwater.  I picked up a
    spool of 70lb a few weeks ago.  Tried it once on the Merrimack and then
    down at Santee-Cooper a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the castability
    was terrible, and it's way too visible (bright yellow).  Yes, it's
    strong, and more sensitive than mono, but in a nutshell, I hated it.
    
    I got some spiderwire that I haven't spooled up yet.  Haven't decided 
    what I'll use it for yet.
    
    -donmac

    This is my second season using the new 'braided lines'
    and I though I would post some long term observations
    
    Results:
    
    Fenwick IRON THREAD was supper... at least for the first 
    two months.... I dont know if I got a bad lot or if it is
    UV sensitive... It just stared breaking an falling appart.
    Before this it had the best casting distance, best color,
    and smallest true dia.  However, I have striped it off my
    reel and wont be using it again. I lost to many lures and
    fish on it.
    
    SPIDER WIRE:  IT is not bad, however, the color must be a wax coating that
    comes off in a few days of heavy fishing.  I  ended up using a 
    magic marker to color the first 10 ft.
    
    TUF:  I stated with that line last year, it is big, white
    but ties great knots, last like iron.  I when back to it 
    last weekend for crank baits.   I like it, but will limit
    my use for night fishing and or crank baits.  Unlike the
    IRON THREAD and the SPIDER WIRE I do not find this line to
    be cut up as much when it rubs againts rock etc.
    
    john
    
    
                                   

    Here are some more observations on braided lines:
    
    I've been fishing with the same 150 yards of 30# Iron Thread for two
    seasons now with no problems whatever. I use it primarily for jigging
    cod. I've been real happy with it. Never broken a knot. I've been hung
    up on the bottom numerous times and have been able to put major force
    on it to free it. 
    
    My friend Pete put 30# Kevlar on his cod rig and after two uses has
    hung up on the bottom twice and the knots have broken both times. We
    both have 25 ft mono leaders attached with uni-knots without lok-knot.
    Pete says he's noticed that the Kevlar seems to cut into itself. That
    is, the knot begins to fray when you tighten it. He's probably going to
    stay with Kevlar and go up to 70#.
    
    I'm going to stay with the Iron Thread.
    
    Art
    

    Intersting Note on the IRON Thread, the line I had trouble with was
    their 8 lb line.  I have not had any trouble with the large Lbs line
    that are flat.  The  8 lb line is round and case great...
    
    I will give the 14 or 20 lb line a try, does any one know if these line
    are basically flat or round.
    
    john
    

    I just got a sample of the new spider wire 2000
    with the 'new gnereration super fiber'
    
    It now has a smaller dia, plus it is almost 'round' instead
    of being flat.
    
    I have a sample of the 6 lb test /30 strength moss green
    spectra 2000 line.  It says it is 0.009" in dia. I have not
    measured it but it sure looks it. If you put it next to the 
    old 30 lb line it looks about 1/2 the size because it is
    'round' and not flat loose weave like the older spider wire.
    The older 30 lb line stated it was 0.011".  I guess if you 
    look at it from the side...
    
    The adds now states it is 10 x stroner than steel, but it is
    not cheap! A 150 yds of line of 20 lb test will cost  $20. The
    older stuff is being sold for about $12.  The new 2000 should
    solve a lot of the problems that the old flat line caused. 
    
    I have ordered som 5 lb test with 1 lb dia 2000 line, I will
    let you know how it is when it comes in.
    
    
    
    john
    

Re .69 - John, what kind of rod and reel are you going to use this line
on?

Art

    
    For Crank baits I will be using a 7 ft IM6 Med action rod with a light
    tip, for worming I will use an IM6 rod with MED/HVY action.
    
    I have switch to a M/L rod to allow the bass to suck in the crank bait
    when it creates a suction by flaring its gills and opening its mouth.
    The action need to come from the tip of the rod since there is little
    stretch from the briaded line.  If you dont do this, then the crank bait
    will only be hook on the edge of the bass's mouth, then the bass has a
    good chance of throwing the crank bait.  I want to get the lure as
    deeper into the bass's mouth before doing the hook set.
    
    jb