Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

I think I can field that question.  The following is the rig I have been making
(and selling successfully through tackle stores) and using on Sweet Dream II
Sportfishing Charters for the past 4 seasons.  It works very well.

Start with a 6' length of 80#-100# mono.  Tie a barrel swivel at one end and
a coastlock snap swivel at the other.  12" up from the coastlock, tie a dropper
loop.  12-18" above that tie another.

Take 6/0 or 7/0 (I use Mustad #3407) hook and tie bucktail on them.  Hang these
teasers off the dropper loops.  Hang a jig off the coastlock.  Hang the whole
rig off another swivel or tie directly to your main line (I use 50# Ande Mono 
and 50# dacron, depending on how deep I'm fishing).

Yes, you may get some line twist, but I'd never worry enough about it to warrant
a ball bearing swivel.

Tim

    
    These rigs are readily on the market also and I've seen some with
    small rubber shrimp as part of it. I bought a couple of these for
    my father-in-law and they worked great. The only problem is the
    amount of abuse the shrimp take. While up at Kittery Trading Post
    last year I found that they also sell the shrimp seperate for a 
    fairly reasonable price. So now he either makes or buys the rigs
    bare and then buys a handfull of these shrimp teasers.
    
                                                           Guy

    What such a heavy 300# swivel and hardware? Why not 100# swivel and
    etc. Seems like most line used is 50# so wouldn't the line let go
    before anything else??
    
    

	The only reason I can think of for a real heavy-duty *snap*
	swivel is that it can hold some jigs easier, as well as 16-20oz
	weights if you switch to bait.  That's what I do anyway.

	Tim, what's the purpose of the heavier 80-100lb leader ?  I use
	50 lb dacron with about 6-10' of 50 lb Ande mono leader.  


	Ken

    I use a 225lb coast lock snap for jigs and my main line. The reason
    being is that leaser lb test do come open more than I would like.
    With the teaser rigs we routinly catch doubles and sometime triples.
    When fishing is fast (up and down) the terminal tackle gets
    abused and not checked often so going heavy duty avoids problems.
    
    Ball bearing swivels are overkill for bottom fishing with conventional
    gear.
    
    Also the reason for 80lb mono leader is because dropper loops only
    test about 70% of the line strenght. I can break a dropper in 50lb
    in my hands when pulling it tight.
    
    Capt. Bruce

re:                       <<< Note 260.5 by LEVERS::SWEET >>>

>    Also the reason for 80lb mono leader is because dropper loops only
>    test about 70% of the line strenght. I can break a dropper in 50lb
>    in my hands when pulling it tight.
    
	Good point!  I hadn't thought of the % strength of the line
	at a dropper loop.   Good thing I haven't caught any cod > 21 lbs
	1/2 a :-)

	70% of 80 lb test works out to 56 lb strength at the dropper loop.

	Thanks
	Ken

    
    I would like to ask some you you expierienced ocean fisherman for some
    support on a little debate I have going on here at work. I 
    recommended to a fellow fisherman (I use this term very loosly!) that
    while loading his penn cod reel with line that he should  N O T  use mono
    as a backing material because of the stress that ends up on the spool.
    Now it seems that my good friend (ya right! he'd stab me in the back
    at the drop of a hat!) decided that since Mr. Lucia fishes for cod in
    some circumstances with mono that I'm full of S$%T and no backing
    material is needed while using mono line. Now ordinarlily I'd let the
    foolish b!@#$%d ruin his own gear, but he decided to load one of my
    reels mine (that I LENT him) with  mono backing. It appears as though 
    my good friend (bob nerker) will take the word of the folks in this file 
    before he will believe his old fishing buddy. I'd appriciate any support
    you can lend me. And if anyone is interested in a new fishing partner
    I'll be glad to recomend Bob to you. He's going to need it this spring
    as I'm pretty sure he's worn out his invitation on my boat! :)
    
     Thanks
     Mike
                                                                              
    

Last summer I caught a 50 lb striper using an old cheap (plastic or some type
of composite) reel.  About half way into the battle, the reel started to become
hard to turn and eventually jambed.  The fish had to be hand-lined in the last
50+ feet.

I tried to figure out why the reel jambed.  After reading a couple articles
about mono "loading up" on the spool and possibly tightening up and expanding
the spool, I figured this was the problem.  I put on a hookless plug on the reel
and while trolling let out 2/3 of the line and reeled it back in.  The reel worked
fine afterwards.  Although I won't take such a chance with this reel again I use
it as a spare.

I don't believe that I would have had the problem if I had used dacron backing.

I have talked to the people loading line on conventional reels in sport shops and
everyone of them said to use dacron backing.

I certainly won't take the chance of loosing a trophy  again,  I'll always use
backing.

Gordon

    Using dacron backing is a good idea in general. I don't follow that
    rule for cod for 2 reasons. 1, the penn 113H have brass spools that
    won't warp like a plastic or composite spool and 2, fish for cod
    you just don't put that much strain on the line nor do you get
    your line stripped down to near the spool so there is a cushion of
    mono from your hand of machine winding. I do use backing for reels that
    deal with tuna or sharks because they can (and do) spool you.
    
    Sorry Mike, I have a 113H that dates back to 1980 and the spool is like
    new.
    
    Bruce

    
     I'll second that....
    
         I've had two spoons crack (years ago) because I did not
     use backing. It doesn't hurt to use it, plus you will use
     less mono and save $$ on line that was never used. frequent
     line changes, thats a lot of mono being tossed.
              
                                                            k'

    I had a Penn Squider carbon spool blow when I was reeling a Strip bass
    in. After the fish was in the boat, I put the rod in the rod holder and 
    BANG what a noise it made - We stop quick, my buddy thought the engine
    back fired. I would recommend backing just to be SAFE... There nothing
    that can ruin a good fishing trip when things are breaking!
    
    MIke

I challenge you to put enough pressure with 50# mono to warp or break a 113H
machined brass spool.  Good luck.  I'm not sure why you would ever use
"backing" on a cod reel.  We've been known to spool one 113H onto the other, 
thus reversing the line and getting the unused end out to the end to be used.

I would use dacron backing on a plastic or graphite spool, or if I had a big 
fish come close to spooling me with straight mono, I'd spool it off behind the
running boat and reel it in under uniform tension.

"mr. lucia"

p.s. The shrimp are good teasers.  So are the tubes.  Some days they'll outfish
bucktail.  Over the course of a season, bucktails will conquer both.  Bucktails
breath when you aren't jigging.  They look more alive under water (try it some
time)

    I believe Mr Brophy, who asked the question about "backing" has a
    problem with hearing and his wallet. I was trying to bring his
    intelligence level up by quoting the recommendation in the "fisherman
    rag" that keeping a FULL/HIGH spool on your cod reel will make it
    "easier" to crank up from 300 ft down. IF one has 300 yds. of dacron
    on a reel (thats 900 ft) your never going to touch the backing. Mono is
    just a cushion and a "level" raiser of the dacron.
    Also if you use "quality" reels rather than cheap reels and rods you
    will never run into "poping" a reel. I thank the others who agree...
    Some people ya just cant enlighten!

>    while loading his penn cod reel with line that he should  N O T  use mono
>    as a backing material because of the stress that ends up on the spool.

 So long as you have a machined aluminum or brass spool, the issue of mono
respooled under tension causing problems is moot. It just doesn't happen.
With plastic spools, however, it can be a real issue. Hint: spend the
extra money and buy quality equipment!

 

    
     Maybe not everyone has the "extra money" or thay may not
    fish quite enough to justify above average equipment...then what??
    
                                                          Kiv 

re: .-1
I believe that buying good quality equipment such as Penn, Shimano and others is
actually cheaper in the long run and doens't cost that much more initially.

I have two spinning reels one Zebco and one Daiwa cheap models that I have broken
the reel foots on and cannot get parts for them anywhere.  I ask Bucko's what they
stock and they always have penn and shimano.  Thats my choice from now on.  If
you can get the parts it is chearer to fix than replace.

I have a penn 209 reel that came used with the boat and is still providing good
service and 6+ whatever years.

Same as the tv ads  pay me know or later

Gordon

re:-1
	I agree with you get what you pay for.

	I've had my PENN 704 spinfisher real since late 70's
	The only item needing replacement was one of the springs which
	are use to open/close the spool wire deal (don't know exact name?)
	Anyway a fishing goods store down the cape had it in stock so
	$.65 later I was in business except that when I tried to put it
	in it didn't go right??? Because it was a "left" wound spring.
	I didn;t know but the PENN 704 has a right and left spring on it.
	I went back and sure enough he had the right "correct" one also ;-)
	Great parts replacement capability when you need it !!!

	AS far as cost.  In a previous note I just mentioned buying a new
	PENN 704Z Spinfisher at the FAIR in Worcester for $44.99 so for 
	that price knowing I'm investing in a reel that will ast at least
	13yrs is a good deal to me ;-)

	-< Tuna Tail >-

>     Maybe not everyone has the "extra money" or thay may not
>    fish quite enough to justify above average equipment...then what??

 By used quality equipment. You may have to replace a few parts if it hasn't
been especially well cared for, but it'll be cheaper than new lesser quality
equipment and will last longer and provide more enjoyment.

    	Being that I have Penn reels, the exploding spools aren't an issue.
    Seeing as I sometimes do marathon cod trips and have wound up in 300+
    feet of water AND like to be able to jig, I use the dacron line.
    
    	Rather than fill the spool with dacron, I use squidding (sp?) line.
    It is thicker/bulkier than either dacron or mono and is also somewhere
    in the middle when it comes to stretching. It's also not very
    expensive.
    
    	RAYJ