Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

    On May 21, it will be the new moon.
    
    bob
    

    Well, my moods are often decribed as "mercurial," so there's no point
    in trying to chart them except in retrospect.<g>
    
    But, if you're looking for something that will tell you about the moon,
    the tides (heights and times), and unusual celestial events, I suggest 
    you pick up a copy of the _1993 Tide Book_ from Pacific Publishers. 
    Illustrations by Escher. I don't know where you are, but Pacific
    Publishers puts out tide books for (I think) eight areas of the US,
    including the Boston area, with tide corrections for the entire region.
    
    In the Boston area, REI is just north of 128/95 on 129 in Reading, MA.
    
    Good luck.
    
    John H-C
    
    It costs about $11 at REI. I haven't seen it anywhere else. It's a
    great little book.

    mood charts=moon charts.. typo's ooops..
    
    How are the tides differant between a new moon and a full moon?? if
    any?

    Big moon equals big tides, in my experience, and new (no) moon means
    mild tides (if there are such things where you live). This is a rule of
    thumb sort of thing, though, and should be taken with a grain of salt.
    A series of large storms in the middle of the ocean will play havoc
    with your tidal expectations a few days later, regardless of what NOAA
    predicts.
    
    JMHO
    
    John H-C

    Don't have the charts here, but I believe the strongest tides are just
    after the full moon *and* just after the new moon.  At these times the
    sun and moon are working in concert (though on the full moon from
    opposite sides of the earth).  The weakest are just after the half-moons 
    (waxing & waning).  Then the vectors are 90 degrees apart, so the solar 
    gravity attenuates the effect of the lunar.
    
    Agreed that storm surges add another factor.
    
    The differences in seven days - say from a no moon to half waxing - are
    about three feet at each end (high and low) here in New Hampshire.  It is 
    a considerable factor in the currents & holes we fish off the beaches.
    
    Jack
    

    Well, today I have my "DES Baggage" with me (business card book,
    address book, tide charts, calendar, etc.) and I can offer this info:
    
    On the night of May 5/6, there is a full moon, and the high tide in
    Boston that night happens at 23:24 and is a 12-foot tide.
    
    On May 21, there is a new (no) moon, and high tide occurs at 12:05 with
    a height of 9.2 feet.
    
    The lowest high tide of the month occurs on May 16 at 08:16 with a
    height of 8.7 feet.
    
    So....
    
    Draw whatever conclusions you can.
    
    John H-C 

>    Don't have the charts here, but I believe the strongest tides are just
>    after the full moon *and* just after the new moon.

 That's what I thought, too. The highest tide swings occur on the full moon.
They decline from the full moon height to a low on the half moon, then
increase until the new moon (which is still not as great as during the
full moon.) Then the tides decrease again until the half moon (on the wax)
at which point they increase up until the full.

    re .6 - John, would you be willing to increase your sample size and
    report back?
    
    It staggers my faith to think that you might be drawing that conclusion 
    er... "unscientifically".
    
    Jack

    Ok, let's see what this suggests...
    
    
    Full Moon/Tide Height   New Moon/Tide Height
    
    Feb: 2-7/11.9 ft		2-21/10.1 ft
    Mar: 3-7/11.5 ft		3-23/9.8 ft
    Apr: 4-6/12 ft		4-21/9.5 ft
    Jun: 6-3/11.7 ft		6-19/9.1 ft
    Jul: 7-3/11.1 ft		7-19/9.7 ft
    
    That's all the time I have at the moment....
    
    John H-C 
    
    Here's a quote from the standard DES Report Introduction:
    
    "This report is anecdotal. Any information gleaned from these
    observations should be subjected to scientific testing before use."
     

    So then with all this info when is the best time for being out there
    fishing.
    
    During new moon, between new and full, etc. etc. etc.
    
    Frank 

    In Fisherman Magazine did an article last year on when the best
    times to fish were. They obtained dates as to when state records were
    set, then plotted it against moon phases for the past x number of
    years. The results were amazing. The records just about all clustered
    within a day or two of the new and full moon. I forget which one was
    the best. I'll try and dig out the article tonight...
    
    Marty

    My rule of thumb is fishing is best during the day around the new moon,
    and at night around the full moon.
    
    -donmac

Well...

MY RULE OF THUMB IS...

		fishing any time you can get out is the best time!!

-HSJ-

    AMEN!
    
    

    joe, i beat ya to it, you didn't read the subject line 8^)
    
    -donmac (who scheduled the santee 93 trip around new moon, again)

Yup, you're right.  I didn't see the subject line. 

In any event, it makes no difference what the moon, sun, tide or weather is
doing...just getting out to wet a line is fun.

    First, what I learned in studying for my CG license is that the new and
    full moons are the strongest tides. Also spring tides on those moons
    are the hardest running.
    
    In general fishing seems to be better (it is definitly easyier) when
    the tides aren't at their strongest. How it effects the fish I
    don't know, but during a strong tide it is much harder to keep the
    boat or bait over a given spot.
    
    Capt. Bruce.

    During a strong tide -- there is a distinction between a strong tide
    the relative height of the tide...higher does not mean stronger -- the
    visibility under water is always lower. It is a lot lower on an
    outgoing tide than on an incoming tide, but in either case, the water
    column fills with particulates on a strong tide. Maybe that's why
    fishing is less productive: the fish just can't see the lure as well.
    
    Now that Bruce has reminded us all that there is a difference between
    the height of the tide and the strength of the tide, maybe what you all
    remember about the new and full moon and the tides had to do with the
    force of the current rather than with the level of the water?
    
    John H-C

    John the height of the tide is directly propotional to the strength
    if the current (ie. the duration of the tide comming in and out remains
    fixed (apprx 6 hrs) but the ammount of water (ie. height of tide)
    varies, thus the higher the tides the stronger the current since more
    water needs to move in the same time span).
    
    Bruce

    As a recent transplant to the Northwest I have read and experienced
    that strong tides around full and new moons can limit fishing success.
    
    The window of slack tide does become more critical when supposedly
    hungry fish unable to fight the stronger current go off the feed
    for longer periods.  Also, in the many islands it becomes more
    important to fish eddies out of the stronger currents.  The plus of
    higher tides vs. soaker tides is that with greater tide movement 
    plankton, baitfish have to move more and fish need to move more to locate 
    food, again more easily at slacker tidal movements.
    
    My experience with full moon tuna fishing has not been that positive,
    especially in the canyons.  While it is easier to night chunk with
    more moonlight I believe the added light can give yellowfin and other
    leader shy fish an advantage.  Best success has always been on moonless
    nights or overcast nights for me.
                         
    As mentioned by a prior noter I would not plan a long trip to the 
    canyon at the peak of the full moon.
    
    Regards
    
    Paul who_misses_canyon_fishing_but_finds_steelhead_a_challenge
                                      

    re: .20
    
    Bruce ---
    
    If the current runs especially fast at a new moon, then the notion that
    the height of the tide is directly related to the strength of the
    current just doesn't hold water. <grins>
    
    The new moon tide is the average-height tide. A few replies back I
    listed the heights of the full- and new-moon tides for six months of
    1993. The full-moon tide is the highest, whereas the new moon tide is
    almost two feet lower, or in other words, average for the area.
    

    Not so fast, John - looking at a 1992 calendar my daughter made for me,
    I see that January through May the highest tide of the month occured 
    within a day or two of the full moon.  June through November it was 
    within a day or two of new moon.  December was back to full moon.
    
    Also there are two highs each ~25 hour period, and one is sometimes 
    considerably higher than the other, so it is important to look at both.
    
    All of this varies by where on the coast you are.  On the west coast of 
    Florida there is only a single high in each ~25 hour period.  In 
    California, I understand, there is one high-high and one low-high, 
    markedly different, in each ~25 hour period.  In the equatorial west 
    coast of South America, the tides are irrelevant, so little movement 
    that no one notices or cares.
    
    I'm going to get ahold of some charts and look at the local situation
    (Boston/Portsmouth NH) more carefully, but saw you running here with a
    conclusion that may not be well founded.
    
    Jack

    Well, I ought to tell you about yesterday. The tide was a low one
    (8-something feet maximum height), there were no whitecaps on the
    water, and the rollers were low and easy looking. 
    
    It was the roughest rough-water dive of my life. I've never been in a
    stronger ocean current around here, and the subsurface forces at play
    bore no relation to the apparent calm on the surface. In a few minutes,
    you'll be able to read about the experience is GOOFOF::SCUBA, if you're
    so inclined.
    
    *I'm* reaching the conclusion that height of tide and size of moon do
    not necessarily have much of anything to do with the strength of the
    current. 
    
    I'll be interested in seeing what conclusions you reach after looking
    through a whole year's worth of charts.
    
    John H-C

    John,
    
      Given we had a major leauge noreaster on Sat with storm warnings
    (wind 50-70mph) along the coast it does not suprise me that
    the ocean currents were tough at all regardless of the surface
    conditions.
    
    Get a copy of Eldredge if you want tides and currents for the
    NE coast.
    
    

Article: 5859
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.tw.space,clari.news.weather,clari.news.trends
Subject: Highest tides of year expected as moon makes pass
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 93 7:41:53 PST
 
	MIAMI (UPI) -- The highest tides of the year are expected
Monday and Tuesday along the North American East Coast as the Moon
becomes full and makes its closest annual approach to Earth, a Miami
astronomer said. 

	``Two celestial occurrences will happen just 46 minutes apart,'' 
said Jack Horkheimer, executive director of the Miami Planetarium. ``On 
Monday, March 8 at 4 a.m., EST, the Moon will reach its closest point 
for the entire year and will be only 221,000 miles away. 

	``Then 46 minutes later, the Moon will become precisely full.
Coupled together, these two occurrences will cause the highest tides
of the year in many areas.'' 

	The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said the
high and low tides during the week could be hazardous for boaters on
North American coasts, especially if they arrive during coastal storms. 

	Horkheimer said apart from providing the extra gravitational
effect, the Moon will also be 14 percent larger and brighter in the
night sky. 

	While the Moon plays the primary role in tidal action,
Horkeimer said, the Sun would also contribute to the higher tides. 

	``Since the Moon is in a direct line with the Sun during a
full Moon -- and also at new Moon -- we always have two days of the
month where the Sun's gravitational pull contributes to higher tides
than usual,'' Horkeimer said. 

	He explained that those events are referred to as ``spring
tides,'' which has nothing to do with the spring season, but rather as
an event where the tides ``spring'' higher than usual. 

	When the Moon's gravitational pull is weakest, at first- and
last- quarter, the tides are smaller, and are termed ``neap'' tides. 

	Horkheimer said the Moon's orbit would take it to its farthest
location from Earth Sept. 30, when the orbit will be 31,000 miles
further out, 252,000 miles from Earth. 

	The Boat Owners Association of the United States advised
boaters to take extra precautions. 

	At the dock, adjust the tie lines and add chafe protection,
the association said. 

	``Rising water may also threaten dry-stored boats in low lying
areas. If possible, move your boat to higher ground,'' it said. 

    That time of year again, can anyone tell me when the new moon will be
    during the mar/apr 94 period?  thanks -don

    RE: .27
    
    Don,
    	My calendar shows March 12, and April 10 as new moon dates.  Just
    as an FYI, sunrise for those 2 days are at 6:17 and 5:30.
    
    B.C.

    my Casio watch... says...
    for southern NH
    12 March 1994  sunrise  6:05 am  and  sunset  5:50 pm
    10 Apr   1994           5:15 am               6:25 pm
    
    I have never check to see how accuract the watch is..
    I think I have a computer program at home that will
    do this, if so I will post the results if someone 
    else does not do it first.
    
    jb
    

    I guess the Casio watch is not bad,, I check it with 
    a orbit prediction program for the sun and got the 
    following for the MA/NH area
    
    12 March 94   6:08 - 5:42    vs the watch at 6:05 - 5:50
    10 April 94   5:18 - 6:16                    5:15 - 6:25
    
    so the watch is well within 15 mins...
    
    They have two,, one calculates the tides
    and one for the SUn... sorry I dont think they
    have one for the moon yet... It would be nice if
    they could put it all in the same package.
    
    Typical sale price for  the watch is about $30.
    
    

    	Just to clarify...  My sunrise times are for 40 deg North
    latitude...  No guarantee of the accuracy, just reading it from the
    calendar.
    				B.C.

    Its been well below 40 degr. so it should be right?
    
    					Rk
    

    
    
    thanks for the info!

I always thought that for any given moon phase, high (or low) tide is always at
the same time at the same place.  For example, for a full moon, high tide is
always at midnight in Hampton, NH.

So, if you know the moon phase, you know the tide and vice-versa. 

Knowing this, there's no need to keep checking the tide charts.

Am I missing something?

...bill

>I always thought that for any given moon phase, high (or low) tide is always at
>the same time at the same place.  For example, for a full moon, high tide is
>always at midnight in Hampton, NH.

 I don't think so. A full moon isn't always at the same time of day.
That's why a really complete full moon indication says the time of day when
it's actually full.

I checked out the moon-phase and tide charts in one of the previous issues of
"The Fisherman". The full moon does tend to line up with high tide at the same
time of day.  This doesn't mean this happens month after month, but I think it
does.  If the moon causes the tides to happen in the first place, I'd think the
tides would be absolutely synchronized to the moon phase. I'm no expert on this,
but now I'm curious...

...bill

 If you look at the full moon days, you'll see that there is a variation
in the timing of the high tides. This is caused by the variation in the
actual time when the moon is full (it's a little different each time) and
the varying effects of the sun. (The sun has a third of fourth order effect
on the tides.)

    
The following is a comparison of this year's full moon/high tide times, 
based on NOAA data published by Pacific Publishers. In Pacific Publishers' 
_TIDELOG_, the tide and the moon's states are depicted in graphic format, 
but only the time and height of the tide's nadir and apex are noted in type. 
The "Appr. Same" line item indicates that the depiction of the full orb 
aligns very closely with the grid line that bisects the apex of the high tide.


		      Full Moon Apex	High Tide Apex

January 7		Appr. Same	22:24
February 6		Appr. Same	22:48
March 7			Appr. Same	22:23

April 6					23:48
April 7			00:30

May 5			00:00		23:24
June 3			23:30		23:05

July 3					23:42
July 4			00:10

August 1		23:50		23:27
August 31		Appr. Same	23:49
October 1		Appr. Same	00:05
October 29		Appr. Same	23:36
November 28		Appr. Same	22:50
December 28		Appr. Same	23:05


    
John H-C

This is great data. Thanks!

So if I understand this correctly, I can blindly say that when there is a full
moon, high tide happens at the same time at the same place. If I don't bother to
look at a tide chart, I'll only be wrong by ~30 minutes. Most of the time, the
time, high tide aligns very closely (almost exactly) to the time of the full
moon.
THERE IS A GOD!

So, to take this one step further, I'd suspect that at each phase of the moon
the tide will be aligned too.  Hmmm.

thanks,
...bill

    Well, remember that the moon is full for pretty much the entire night.
    In fact, in summer it's full long before nightfall. What you need to
    know is when the apex of the moon is (if you're using that as an
    indicator of high tide). My inclination would be to use the high tide
    as an indicator of the apex of the moon (should that data piece ever
    become worthwhile to me).
    
    BTW, I did not notice a straightforward correlation between the highest
    high tide in the month and the fullness of the moon, though there did
    seem to be a general trend toward a fair-to-middling high tide when the
    moon is full.
    
    John H-C