Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

Your public library usually maintains a good source of reference material 
such as and better than "Consumer Reports". Good place to start. You can 
also pick up a book or two on boating, fishing, etc. 

leo

I found two articles about small outboard motors
features from brand to brand, that is interesting
but nothing yet on tests that come with classifications
from excellent to "use as an anchor".  Still looking.

Thanks for the pointer.

Michel.

    
    Maybe a better way to figure out which would be the best manufacturer
    to buy would be to find out service and parts availability. Depending
    on how long it takes in both issues will push you to or from a certain
    company.
    
                                                       Guy
    

    
    
    Hondas are expensive because they are 4 strokes.  This means you don't
    have to mix oil with gas to run them.  As a result, they are attractive
    as kicker motors on boats that already have a sizeable power plant. 
    That way you can feed the Honda kicker off the main gas tank with no
    muss and no fuss.
    
    Most other outboards in that size range are 2 stroke and require oil
    mixing.  I hear that the "auto-mixers" don't work so hot, so you
    probably want to stay away from them.
    
    I personally have had great luck with Evinrudes in the low horsepower
    class outboard.  I like them because a 10 year old can break one down
    and fix it.  It's easier than a lawn mower to disassemble and rebuild.
    
    I had a 6 hp from 1972 that I sold to a friend in 1984.  He still puts
    about 200 hours a year on it and it runs great.  I'm still kicking
    myself.  I sold it for $300 and I can find one as good for that price.
    I digress.
    
    You might also want to enter a note in Boating notes.
    
    /brett

What brand was your 1972?  I get the feeling that
older motors were made better.  Is that a reality
or only something we all would like to believe?

I posted that note also in the boating conference
(thanks for the suggestion) and was pointed to two 
topics that are interesting
in that regard : 568 and 798.  I am entering that 
info for others that might want a pointer.

My budget for it is around $850 US.  From what I 
read I think that I can find something that will
be reliable and relatively new if such a thing 
becomes available for sale.

Michel.

    My 72 was an Evinrude.  I'm not sure I'd say older motors are better.
    
    My personal feeling is that Mercury outboards have gotten much better
    in recent years while I always thought that Johnson Evinrude was the
    clear quality leader in the 70s.  I'm not big on Japanese anything if I
    can find quality in the U.S.  
    
    On the other hand I had a buddy that owned a 70s 4 hp mercury that we used
    on his Jon boat for duck hunting and that little thing was bullet
    proof!  It churned mud better than anything I've ever seen :-)
    
    If you're going to buy a motor for around $850, you should be able to
    do pretty well.
    
    /brett

I've owned three of the "auto oiling" engines in the past few years: 1980,
1984, and 1988. Included in there is a 15hp Johnson, 100hp Evinrude, and
235hp Johnson. Other than a recurring false low-oil alarm from one of
them, they've been flawless. Bear in mind that my first outboard was a
'56 Johnson back in 1958. I have experience with the oil/gas mixing
world. 

The recurring false alarm is caused by a bouncy float in the oil
reservoir; when the stern of the boat gets kicked up by a steep sea, AND
the oil reservoir is at 1/2 or below, the buzzer will chirp once or
twice. This probably doesn't even happen on most other installations.

My 15hp Johnson has the oil reservoir built into the 6-gallon gas tank.
There are two filler caps on the tank. Near as I can determine, for the
way I use this engine it's mixing the oil at about 200:1. Of course, on
the rare occasion that I run the the WFO it's probably mixing around
80:1. So, it varies dynamically. I would rather have that situation than
try to run a "best compromise".

You shouldn't be afraid of the auto-mixers (or -injectors, or whatever
your favorite manufacturer calls it).

Now, you might have some other special situation that lends itself more
to a non-auto-mixed setup. 

Art

    
    >>Most other outboards in that size range are 2 stroke and require oil
    >>mixing.  I hear that the "auto-mixers" don't work so hot, so you
    >>probably want to stay away from them.
    
    Brett, I know oil injection is not common on small outboards, but I'm
    not familair with "auto mixers".
    
    Oil injection for two strokes has been solid reliable technology 
    for 20 years. It's more expensive to manufacture and therefore more
    expensive to buy, but it works. 
    
    As a matter of fact Force is about the only manufacturer left who does
    not provide oil injection on their larger engines.
    
    Oil injection is the *only* way to go in my book.  No messing with 
    oil, trying to guestimate how much to put in there, cleaner burning,
    better running, etc...
    
    -donmac
    
    
    

RE: .7 
>>Near as I can determine, for the way I use this engine it's mixing the 
>>oil at about 200:1. Of course, on the rare occasion that I run the the 
>>WFO it's probably mixing around 80:1.

Art,
In the late 80's OMC tried to lean the gas/oil mixture to 100:1 on some 
of the non-oil injected motors, and went even leaner under certain conditions
on the VRO motors.  I was told just a couple weeks ago by Wilderness Marine 
that there's been a change in thinking by OMC, and that bearing life is not 
up to snuff when run at the leaner ratios.  OMC has notified dealers to pass 
the following info on to their customers (no official Recall notice though):  

- Motors that were specified to run at 100:1 (� pint/6 gallons) should be 
  run at 50:1 (1 pint/6 gallons).

- VRO motors should have "some" oil added to the gasoline.  I forget the
  exact mix, but about � pint/6 gallons sounds right.  This way, 100:1 in 
  the gas and ~100:1 supplied by the VRO would give ~50:1.

I was told by Wilderness that the current injection system on OMC motors is 
no longer VRO (variable ratio oiling), and they have gone to a constant ratio.
FWIW, I've never had an oil injected outboard, and have never missed it.  I 
have to pour the oil and gas in somewhere, and by mixing them together I know 
the ratio is right.  

Rick

    Yea, "auto oiling" is not a good term.  
    
    To my knowledge there are auto injectors and auto mixers.  Most of the
    big engines have auto injection.  I have an 80 hp Merc that is oil
    injected and it works great.  The injection ratio is variable based on
    RPMs.  Really a nice outboard in the 4 years I've been running it and I 
    was never a Merc fan.
    
    I don't have first hand experience, but my understanding is that most
    of the "auto oilers" at the low end are "auto mixers" which mixe the
    gas with oil in the gas line instead of injecting the oil into the
    engine.  The ratio is fixed.
    
    The auto mixers seem to be getting pretty bad press.  I've heard a lot
    of people say they just mix the gas and oil and ignored the auto mixer.
    
    BTW, I have a buddy with a 115 Merc from 1989 and he tells me his is
    auto mixed instead of auto injected.  I was surprised.  My 80  horse
    is older than his 115 and is auto injected.
    
    /brett

    I had a Merc 25 which I used for trolling. After about an hour or 2
    it would start to run rough and sometimes would just die. It was 
    acceptable but not ideal. Revving it up would temporarily cure the
    roughness. It seemed to run better on dry days. 
    
    If I had to do it all again I would go with a 4-stroke(which wasn't
    available at the time). I am baseing this on a "just trolling" mode.
    It just makes more sense to me. The 4-stroke would idle-down easier
    and fouled plugs, pre-mixing, and oil smoke would be a thing of the 
    past.
    
                                 Jeff (Captain) 
                                 Team Starcraft

<    The auto mixers seem to be getting pretty bad press.  I've heard a lot
<    of people say they just mix the gas and oil and ignored the auto mixer.
<    
<    BTW, I have a buddy with a 115 Merc from 1989 and he tells me his is
<    auto mixed instead of auto injected.  I was surprised.  My 80  horse
<    is older than his 115 and is auto injected.
    
    I've got a '86 75hp Mariner (the shop manual is the same as the 80hp Merc)
that uses an "AUTO-BLEND". There is a fuel line entering the "auto-blend" unit
from the fuel tank and the fuel line to the engine coming out.  This
sounds/looks like auto-mixing to me. Perhaps Merc/Mariner offered different
packages to different dealers. 

   FWIW I've had the engine for 6 years now with no problems except dinged
up props.  I suppose I'll have to take it in for its first tune-up before too
long.


Al

re: .11

Jeff,

I own a '89 Merc 25 and it trolls very nicely for hours on end without 
loading up.  I've gone as much as 6-7 hours straight at trolling speeds and 
then opened it up without so much as a sputter.  

One thing I have done is to adjust the low speed jet to achieve the smoothest 
response during idle.  

-HoleShot

    	I attempted to use an oil intermix system (Merc/Mariner) on 
    two different auxilliary outboards without much luck. I ended up
    carrying the separate gas cans on board. If anyone is interested 
    I still have it. It may work for you. 
    	I don't think they have worked out in general. When they first 
    came out they were splashed all over the brochures. Recent ones however
    seem to downplay them if you can find a mention at all.
    	I was looking at small outboards last year and may actually
    pick one up this year. I narrowed my choices down to Suzuki and Honda.
    The Suzuki has oil injection all the way down to their 8 hp model and
    of course Honda is a four stroke. The Yamaha four stoke weighed in a
    lot heavier than the others so I excluded it from my choice (I have a
    swing up bracket and weight is important).  
    Regards,
    Paul

    I have been an OMC fan for years, but for trolling motors I have
    recently been impressed by Yamaha outboards.  I was so impressed that I
    am even considering purchasing a 40HP tiller for trolling on Lake Huron
    for Salmon.  
    A friend of mine bought a 30HP triple cylinder with oil injection
    (injects straight into the intake manifold) to use stricltly for
    trolling on the great lakes with a 16' Lund.  I remember thinking how
    quiet it was when I heard a 40HP Johnson roll by about 20m away.
    The Johnson wheezed, sputtered and coughed it's way, drowning out	
    the converstaion we were having about fishing lures.   Don't get me
    wrong, I still think OMC makes one of the most dependable motors on the
    water.  The 70hp (1987) and 9.9hp (1977) that I own have never, ever
    been to a Marina for repairs, nor have they ever left me stranded!
    However, if you are looking for a trolling motor, the Yamaha does seem
    to troll slower with less noise than it's OMC counterpart.
    
    Best of luck!
    
    Duncan