Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

    
          Well I can understand why no one has any info on these
       wonderful tip-ups... I recieved my info form Worth Co. and let
       me tell ya BIG BUCKS for the tip-ups $28.00 ea. !!! 
                                                          
            
                                              looks like a drive to
                                              the fair.....
    
                                                                KIV

    The latest replies in 332 got me to wondering:
    
    What do people who spend 9 hours in conditions like that wear when
    they're out on the ice?
    
    I'm heading to Ontario to do some ice diving in the dark hours of
    February, so I've got a real live reason for wanting to know.
    
    Thanks.
    
    John H-C

    RE: .2
    
    Feet:
    	The best felt lined boots you can afford, electric socks if you
    have them, if not then a layer of wicking socks with wool over them.
    
    Lower body:
    	Heavy polypro long johns, sweats (or wool pants), insulated bibbers.
    
    Upper body:
    	Heavy polypro top, heavy polypro or wool sweater, down, thinsulate,
    etc. vest or jacket, heavy down parka.
    
    Head, neck:
    	Some type of neck wrap, balaclava, etc. that you can pull up over
    your face, a warm hat or two, down hood.
    
    Hands:
    	Glove liners under the warmest mittens you can find.
    
    	Add appropriate handwarmers in mittens and possibly in boots, hat
    and kidney area.
    
    	Sometimes I've even added other layers here and there including
    things like a -big- RefrigiWear freezer coat.
    
    	Some kind of a wind break, or better yet a shack or vehicle to warm
    up in.  And don't forget eye protection if it's daytime and sunny.
    
    	Too much alcohol in that weather and you risk frostbitten or frozen
    extremities, or death.  Too much cold can impair your judgement and too
    much alcohol just makes it worse.
    						B.C

	Re: .3

	 Excellent advice BC, I was out fishing on Sunday (-5 to +5) plus
	the windchill and kept warm all day by following the same routine.
	For me its feet, if they start getting cold, then I'm not having
	fun anymore. I don't have the luxury of owning -40 rated boots, but
	good socks, plus those Spag special Boot warmers really do the 
	trick. 

	 The only other advice I could add is bring extra's. I always bring
	a bag of extra gloves, socks, pullover, hat, boot & Hand warmers.
	You never know when you or someone else may get themselves or their
	clothes wet, add that to those kind of temps and you are in trouble
	instantly. 

	Happy diving!

	JB

    Oh, wow!
    
    It just occurred to me that I might be able to pass some useful
    information on to you icefisherpersons:
    
    Henderson (leading wetsuit manufacturer in the US) makes something
    called an "ice cap" aka "polar cap." You can buy it in the winter in
    most dive shops that carry a moderately full inventory that includes
    Henderson products. The ice cap is a 3mm old-fashioned neoprene hood
    that fits over your head and face, leaving your nose and eyes clear.
    (When diving, you wear it under your hood, and the mask seals on the
    neoprene of the ice cap rather than on your skin.) I wore it skiing in
    NH last winter when the wind chill was something like -40 F, and it
    worked just as well on land as underwater. 
    
    The ice cap is something you wear *under* and external shell, something
    that you would normally wear without the extra layer of insulation. It
    comes in basic black, and it *shouldn't* cost you more than $35. I
    recommend it to every coldwater diver who doesn't have one, and they
    all say it should be included in the list of basic required dive
    equipment.
    
    Thanks for the input.
    
    John H-C

    RE: .5
    
    	I've never tried neoprene for cold weather protection.  I have no
    doubt that it would insulate well.  My only concern would be the fact
    that I like something that wicks perspiration away from my skin.  I
    wear either wool or polarfleece hats under a down hood.
    
    	You can get all kinds of neoprene face masks etc. through most of
    the outdoor catalogs, most likely at a lower price than at a dive shop.
    
    						B.C.       

    Yeah, but this thing is a hood rather than a mask. Just thought I'd
    mention it...
    John H-C

    John H-C would you mind sharing what you'll be doing at Lake Ontario in
    February??? Have you ever dived any of the rivers up there??? It must
    be a trip seeing those huge steelheads magnified underwater!!!
    
    Just curious. I thought I was crazy for standing on top of it!!!!
    
    Bob M�

    Looking for underwater winter life. I believe the site is a river in
    Ontario near Ottawa. I'm delivering a seminar on Thursday and then
    heading out onto the ice on Friday and Saturday. At least, I believe
    that is the plan. DES Canada is setting it up, and I'm just coming
    along for my own edification.
    
    John H-C

    I just heard about something on the radio this morning that might be
    appropriate here.
    
    There's a shop in Malden called GI Joe's which carries a military
    product called "Mickey Mouse Boots". They are made of alternating
    layers of rubber and wool and are supposed to protect down to -30 or
    -40. The guy doing the interview claimed that they will keep your feet
    warm. I have no experience with them, but they sounded interesting. I
    use my Sorel's with the wool felt liners and they work pretty well, but
    these Mickey Mouse things sound like they might be better. FWIW.
    
    Art
    

re:-1

	We used to call them Bunny Boots but sounds like the same deal.
	While in the USAF KI SAWYER AFB upper peninusula (sp?) Michigan
	we wore them on the flight line.  They were think white rubber
	with a air pocket around them and lined.  I guarded B-52's on 
	the flight line in -32 deg temperature's a lot of times and
	although did a lot of walking to keep my body warm the boots
	would keep them warm without walking.

	What price?
	I'd like to know

	Dick aka -< Tuna Tail >-

    They guy on the radio was just talking about what he sells that keep
    people warm and didn't give any pricing info, but I bet if you looked
    up "GI Joe's" in Malden you could call them and get a price on the
    phone.
    
    It's nice to know the military supplied you stuff to stay warm in....my
    experience has been that Uncle's jungle fatigues and jungle boots don't 
    keep you cool :>).
    
    

    My father told showed me a pair of those Mickey Mouses years ago. I
    believe he told me they were military issue. He was in Airborne and
    served in Korea.
    
    They are a "heavy" boot and the newer boots to the market are lighter and
    more comfprtable. I have a pair of Lacrosse boots called "Icemen". They
    are rated to -40 and I love them. I wear them on stand hunting because
    my feet were the first to go. They retail for around $110.00 and are 
    similiar to the Sorel Pack design with inserts.
    
    The latest Gander Mountain catalog has Sorels which are rated to -85.
    Very good prices considering I paid the $110.00 for mine. They range in
    price from $104.99 to $84.99. There is a pair called the Lightweight
    Arrowhorn and I want them. They have a nippled sole for better traction
    on ice and snow. Only weigh 4lbs per pair and all around look like the
    nads. $94.99... Where were these when Christmas was around.
    
    Well me and my Icemen are off for Moosehead tonight.
    Happiness is Flags a popping
    Bob M�

    
    So ole Dick stood guard in -32 weather but won't go ice fishin'
    in +15 to 20!!   Hmmmmmmm.      (Coward?)
    
    Was looking at a pair of socks in Spags yesterday. they were
    thin, white and had what looked like metalic thread in them.
    Silvery stuff.  Tag said that they reflect body heat.
    Anyone try these things?
    
    Only $2.98 pr.
    
    Fred
    

re:-1
    
    >>So ole Dick stood guard in -32 weather but won't go ice fishin'
    >>in +15 to 20!!   Hmmmmmmm.      (Coward?)

	Ya but I could crawl up inside those bomb bay doors and snooze
	on a nuke to keep the wind off ;^)

	As for those Spag socks.  Sounds like you plug them in?
	Do you have a mile long extension cord?

    -< Tuna Tail >-

    RE: Mickey Mouse Boots
    
    	The military Mickey Mouse boots are rated for -70 deg. but like
    all of the other ratings it means while -active-, not while sitting
    around.  You can see/order them through Cabela's for about $169-179 in
    white, black, or camo.
    	I haven't -really- decided whether I want to spend -that- much
    money on boots.
    				B.C.

    
    
       I had a pair of mickey mouse boots, and to this day I am sorry I
    wore them on their fatefull snowmobile trip, thorns are their worste
    enemy. but I will have to say that they are absolutly the warmest boots
    I have ever had on my feet.
    
       The biggest benifit of these boots is that even if you get water
    into the boots the water will warm to body temp. within a few minutes
    and will stay at body temp. 
    
       I received a catalog from sportsman guide last summer, this was a
    blow out sale, well they had these boots in there and for 49.99, the
    only catch was they had to be ordered by july 31 93 well I received the 
    catalog on the 29th or 30th and wasnt able to get the order in on time,
    but I found a place out here that has them for 60.00 so I am gonna make 
    a visit to that place and pick up a couple pairs.
    
    
                                             Lee
    

	Anyone have any ideas for keeping ice holes from freezing up ?
	I'm heading up to Northern Vermont for an ice fishing trip in
	2 weeks, and it gets really really cold up there, so holes freeze
	up constantly.

	One idea I tried yesterday helped a lot.  I saw a tip up that
	claims to eliminate feeze up at Walmart. The tip up looked cheap,
	but it used a black rubber flap to cover up the hole, claiming 
	no freeze up for 3 hours at -40 (hard to believe).  I think it's
	called a solar tip up.

	Based on that, I made 12" diameter flaps to cover the holes with 
	an old truck inner tube with a slot cut along the radius and a hole
	in the middle of the flap for the tip up shaft.  The tip up sits
	on top of this flap, and slides out pretty easily when you go to 
	play a fish.  Compared to my friends, the holes required hardly any
	tending with only skim ice over them after a few hours. It worked ok, 
	but wasn't perfect.

	A guy at a bait shop suggested pouring cheap booze into the holes.
	I happened to have some ;-) and that seemed to slow down icing as
	well, and when it iced over, the ice was "soft" or slushy.

	We also tried using 2" styrofoam, with slots and stuff, under the
	tip up, but that didn't seem to work at all.

	Maybe a combo of the rubber flaps and alcohol would work.  

	Any other ideas ?

	/Ken

    I just returned from Moosehead Lake which is in Maine. We had -15
    degrees yesterday morning!!! No wind, so it wasn't too bad. If you are
    talking about preventing freeze up while fishing I have never come
    across anything full proof when you are talking those kind of
    temperatures.
    
    Those things they sell today to place over your holes work great as
    long as the sun is out. They are based on solar heating. BUT when the
    sun goes in you might just find yourself trying to chip them out as
    well as your tilts. The old timers used to use anti freeze but
    ecologically they are horrible and so is the deserving fine if you get
    caught using it. Not to mention the mess it must make of your
    equipment!
    
    One solution we found and used this weekend is right at your feet.
    Snow!!!!! It's a little messy. It's not pretty but it's insulating
    factor will surprise you. As I said the temp's went down to -20 Sat-
    urday evening up there. After we pulled our tip-ups out we Kicked snow
    into every hole and tried to put up to 6" above and around. When we
    went out at 6:30 a.m. we simply took our boots and kicked the snow
    off the top and then broke the 1/2"  of ice in the hole with an axe
    handle. They work especially well for clearing ice build up while your
    tip-ups are in the hole because they fit between the tip up and the
    hole border nicely.
   
    On a side note. The fishing was great on Saturday. Seven Lakers and one
    salmon. Not to mention the many flags we missed!! Sunday a low pressure
    moved in and the fishing shut right down. Not one flag but that's
    fishing. Had a great time!!!!!!
    
    Hope this helps.
    Bob M�
    

	re: Snow

	I've used snow before too, up at Winny during the derby a few
	years ago, and it worked great.   A little messy, but it definitely
	insulates.   I also heard of contractors this year who find unfrozen
	ground to dig due to the snowcover...

	/Ken

    	re: Hole freeze up
    
    	Just a thought but would vegetable oil work ? I would think it
    would be fairly safe environmentally and it's not too expensive.
    
    	RAYJ

re:         <<< Note 97.21 by VICKI::DODIER "Cars suck, then they die" >>>

>     	Just a thought but would vegetable oil work ? I would think it
>     would be fairly safe environmentally and it's not too expensive.
    

	That was discussed yesterday on the ice as well ;-)   I bet it
	would work, but then there's the mess to deal with.

	Another possibility is something to keep the water moving, like
	the way an aerator is used on waterways to keep em from freezing.
	But how to rig something that's cheap and practical for 5 tilts
	(or 8 in VT) is another	matter.   

	Ken

    I'm not sure it would work!!! When we opened the cabin up Friday night
    it was 0 degrees. We opened up the cabinets to make sure everything was
    o.k. much to our surprise the bottle of Wesson Oil and the bottle
    of Olive Oil were frozen!!!
    
    You were discussing the extreme temperatures of Northern Vermont
    weren't you??? Besides even if it's 20 out are you going to stick your
    hand into a hole filled with Wesson oil??? YUK!!!! How are you going to 
    get your gloves back on??? You would be so busy trying to get the gunk
    off of your hands that you would get froste-bite in the process.......
    
    Keep it simple
    Bob M�

    re:17
    
    	I was just looking at a Jan. 10th (?) issue of Shotgun news and
    they had new Mickey mouse boots in there for $39.95 and $49.95. For
    some reason, size 9 and 10 were $49.95.
    
    	I don't have the paper handy with me but perhaps someone else may
    have a copy. It was near the end in the last couple of pages somewhere
    and the ad had a picture of the boots.
    	
    	RAYJ

    RE: last few
    
    	Are we sure we're all talking about the same boots?  Military
    issue, little air valve on the side to equalize pressure if you have to
    go up in a plane while wearing them....  I'm -not- calling anyone liars
    on this!  I'd just be -real- surprised if Cabela's was $130 too high on
    the price.  I've -never- seen them cheap before.
    							B.C.
    

    re:MM boots
    
    	I just saw the ad yesterday. It said Army surplus Mickey Mouse
    boots and showed a picture of them. Perhaps it was a typo. I'll try to
    verify and put the name and number of the place in here.
    
    	RAYJ

    	I not only verified my source, I just ordered a pair. I also got
    the price wrong. The price was $39 for all boot sizes except size 9 
    and 10, which are $45.
    
    	The name of the place is Colemans and the number is 717-692-4910 or
    717-692-4444. They accept Master Card or Visa and provide same day
    shipment. Shipping and handling is $6.
    
    	RAYJ

    	Just a couple notes. The ad said that they had limited supplies
    and the $6 S+H was to ship one pair of boots. I ordered them this
    morning and was told that I'd have them in 2-3 days. I may even have them 
    by the weekend. If I do, I'll probably try them out smelt fishing this 
    weekend.
    
    	RAYJ

    RE: .27
    
    	Thanks for the info!  This is too good to pass up!
    
    					B.C.

    I just fished the Salmon River in Pulaski NY (North of OSwego, South of
    Watertown) last week. Jan 19, 20, 21. 
    It was cold. It was very snowy. But I expected it. 
    
    I wore 5 MM neoprene chest waders (Simms) with a boot. Not boot foot waders
    but a boot thats part of the waders. THorlo socks and dungarees.
    I swear. The 1st day was below 0. The next day because I was ribbed
    about it, I added a pair of thin thermax bottoms. I was fine both days
    standing in the water and out of it. I am convinced the 5 mm neoprene
    and the fact the boot foot are 2 sizes bigger (more air?) are the
    reason nothing was cold. (And korkers - just a sandle on the bottom of
    the boot so I dont slip)
      
    My upper body had one layer of mid wt thermax, a cotton tee
    shirt, a wool shirt and a Northface Goretex parka with an insert. 
    (insert was, I guess, their version of polor fleece.) Wool glove liners 
    when I walked in to the river, and another pair with the thumb and 1st 
    finger cut off at the river.
    My fishing vest has handwarmer pockets and I added a chemical warmer
    insde the pocket each day before going out.
    
    My head had a Polypro balaclava(sp?) and an 'OR' hat that was goretex
    and had new hi-tech liner. (OK-me thinks it was a polor fleece kind of
    thing) Had bill so the glare could be minimized and ear flaps you could 
    velcro up or down..   
     
    I was fine. I really cant say enough about the neoprene. One of the
    folks with me also had a coat of neoprene. Yup. Only saw them sold by 
    'Orvis" fly shops. If I had the extra $$ to waste on one, I would have 
    it...                

    	I got my boots on Friday. They weren't as big and bulky as I remember 
    them, but the last ones I saw were white. The ones I got were black and
    they don't look much different in size than a snowmobile boot.
    
    	They're rated down to -20F according to the "care and feeding" card
    that I got with them. One of the things that makes them a little
    heavier than snowmobile boots is that they are rubber (vs. nylon) all
    the way up. The felt liner is completely encased in rubber so that if
    you get any water inside, the liner will still be dry. As a matter of
    fact, they recommend cleaning the insides once a month with warm soapy
    water.
    
    	All in all, it looks like a good boot for the money and for smelt
    fishing. I didn't wind up going this weekend but I'm going to shoot for
    this coming weekend so I'll get to try them out for real. I wore them
    the other day but at worst it only got down to 15F and my feet were
    sweating a little bit in them. Probably work good with polypro socks.
    
    	RAYJ

     I have a pair of the Arrowhorn (sp?) boots.  They sure do keep the
    feet warm and don't weigh much.  The only problem I've had is the nylon
    uppers.  When there's water on the ice it will find it's way into the
    boot.  This happened the other weekend.  Though the temprature was
    around zero, wet felt liners, wet wool sox, my feet stayed warm.  I
    have never had cold feet while wearing these boots.
     A friend and I are fishing Lake Willoughby (Vt.) this weekend Feb 5 &
    6.  One of you guys said you were fishing northern Vt. soon.  If your on
    Willoughby this weekend,  we'll be fishing the south end of the lake,
    down near where the Ice climbers park.  We'll be in the blue Cabala's
    ice tent.  Stop by if your in the area.
    
    Bruce

re:                       <<< Note 97.32 by SALEM::GOGUEN >>>

>     A friend and I are fishing Lake Willoughby (Vt.) this weekend Feb 5 &
>    6.  One of you guys said you were fishing northern Vt. soon.  If your on
>    Willoughby this weekend,  we'll be fishing the south end of the lake,
>    down near where the Ice climbers park.  We'll be in the blue Cabala's
>    ice tent.  Stop by if your in the area.
    
	I'm heading up to Willoughby thursday night, and fishing it
	Feb 4,5, and some of the 6th.   It's my first time up there, so I 
	have no idea where we'll be, but my friends have been there before 
	so I'll let them pick the spot.  I'll look for your setup.  We'll 
	be in a new custom made 8x8 sorta white (boat-type) canvas hut 
	with windows all around, rounded/awning style roof.  

	/Ken

     Well good luck to you.  I didn't make it up there last year but had
    fished it the previous winter (92).  It seems most of the shanties are
    at the north end of the lake up by the bait shack / boat launch.  We
    want to get away from the crowds so we go back to the south end.  Theres a 
    few places to pull off the road about mid lake but theres about a 20 ft. 
    cliff.  Make sure you have plenty of line on your tip-ups.  You won't
    beilive how fast a laker can take out line.
     Where are you guys staying ?  I've sent for a list of motels in the
    are but have not recieved it yet.  Looks like we 'll have to stay in
    the Burke/Lyndonville area or maybe Barton.  Any suggestions ?
    
    Can't wait,
    
    		Bruce

re:                       <<< Note 97.34 by SALEM::GOGUEN >>>

>    fished it the previous winter (92).  It seems most of the shanties are
>    at the north end of the lake up by the bait shack / boat launch.  We
>    want to get away from the crowds so we go back to the south end.  Theres a 

From what I heard about the place, those shacks are near an inlet, and 
there's a lot of smelt fishing going on.  Heading south is supposed to be 
the place for the trout, not sure how far.  My friends mentioned access via 
some cliffs as well, and using ropes to get the gear down.  I don't know 
where we'll end up...

>     Where are you guys staying ?  

I don't know, my friends made the reservations through a chamber of commerce,
and they were having trouble remembering the name of the place.  I guess it's 
about 5 or 7 miles away, and there's not much of a choice as there are not
many hotels in that area.

/Ken

    	We didn't get on the ice until about 8:30 AM (Sat. Feb. 5th).  We
    fished all day and gave up about 7:00 PM..  All we had to show was one
    cusk.  We got up the next morning early and was back on the ice at
    about 6:00 AM.  I was setting a tip-up in about 35 ft. of water and
    just about the time the smelt hit the bottom there was a tug on the
    line.  It turned out to be a 21" laker.  My buddy got his first laker
    just a few minutes later.  About 15".  One more flag and I had a 13.5"
    rainbow on the ice.  All we kept was the rainbow.
    Not a lot of action but lots of fun.
    
    How'd you guys make out Ken ?
    
    Bruce

	We did ok.  Friday there was lots of action.  I picked up a nice 
	rainbow and a small salmon.  We fried up the rainbow on the ice 
	and it was delicious - first time I ever enjoyed rainbow.
	My 2 friends had a couple of lakers (18-21") and a few real small 
	cusk, lakers, and salmon.  Nothing big at all.   Saturday was real 
	slow.  I picked up a mini-cusk and a mini-laker, and one of my 
	friends got a big brown (gorgeous fish).  That was about it.  

	I saw a blue shelter near the road, to the south. Was that you ?
	
	Our canvas shelter worked like a charm!  Woke up to -15F on friday,
	but the high temp was 54F in the hut!  That round propane heater
	worked great.

	/Ken