Conference wahoo::fishing-v2

    An interesting notion: banning fish finders. Has it ever been tried?
    
    What happened next?
    
    John H-C

Banning Fish Finders.   Boy that is interesting.

	Question:  Do you own a fish finder?
	Question:  Have you ever caught a fish or spent the time to caught a 
		   fish that shows up on a "fish finder"

	Well for one the name should be changed.  It is very rare that a 
fish finder finds fish.  The are excellent depth finders and also what the 
bottom may look like, but as for them being fish finders.  there are not so 
good.

	The technology in these devices is even questioned.  When some of them
even draw little or big fish, which is a hook for the fisherman.  I have caught 
many fish off points or holes that do not show up on my cart recorder, and
have spent hours trying to caught some that do, with no luck.

	A law for catch and release is far more effective than a ban on fish 
finders.  Look back at people like my Grand Father.  He could fish rings 
around me when I was young.  throw in a shinner on  bobber and bam a bass.
He never even herd of a fish finder then.

	If they want to do even more, then make the lake no live bait
use as well.  Life bait caughts more and kills more than an other bait.

well that must be 3 cents worth :^)
Bassin Bob, who thinks a gold old flasher "depth finder" is better than
a fance new "fish finder"		

    To be honest, I never used a fish/depth finder. But, it doesn't take a
    rocket scientist to know the advantage of having one.
    I do know that fish show up on a finder, and that's an advantage to
    not having one. No sense fishing where there aren't any fish.

    If the bass are out deep, you'll know where the drop
    offs are and your chances are improved verse not having one.

     So you want some flames, well, lets ban tournament fishing as well.
    For those  are the guys, through their whining about the lack of fish
    brought the  ban on keeping fish in the first place. They can't handle
    getting skunked at their weekly tournament they run, so they got to
    screw those who like to eat bass and create an unbalance population 
    of a species within the pond.
    Catching fish to eat is as natural as taking a leak, bass tournaments
    are man made.

    I've yet to see any of them fishing on the lake without a fish finder. 

    So tell me, if a fish finder  doesn't tell you that there are fish
    present,  why use  them ?
     

    Jim

    I beleive Bassin Bob, DonMac, myself and almost all of the other
    current catch-and-release advocates used to eat what we caught.  If you
    take fish that you catch and eat them, that is your right under the
    fish and game laws.

    If we choose to release them, it is because we enjoy catching them more
    than eating them.  We also relize that if we took all we legally could,
    we would soon be sick of eating fish.  That is not saying that we are
    great fishermen, just that we are avid fishermen and go fishing at 2+
    times a week.  If you spend enough time on the water you catch a lot of
    fish.

    Why should we band tournaments?  They release all of the fish they
    bring in. I will admit some fish do die but they are taken by one of
    fishermen.  On the other hand, all of the tournament fishermen would
    still fish if there were no tournaments.  If there were no tournements
    with the catch and release to influence them, most would keep there
    catch which would result in even more dead fish.

    Do fish finders find fish?  About as good as "Dances Eel" catches em.

    A fish finder is nothing more than an echo range finder.  Some have
    logic to deturmine if the echo is bottom or a return from weeds,
    bubles, thermacline sparc plug or just about anything else and then
    will draw you a fish.  They are a tool and almost never find fish that
    aren't below 35' and suspended 10' off of the bottom.

    They are very usefull for:

	helping to keep props and hulls out of the rocks
	helping in finding the depth you want to fish
	keeping downrigers near bottom

    Anyone with a boat in the North East, who doesn't have a depthfinder of
    some variety is asking for trouble.
    

I was not saying that you should not keep a few fish to eat.  But there are
people like this guy I blue and striper fishing.  They keep every fish they 
catch, Then when the market will not buy them they are giving them away on
the street.  That I can't stand.  Or the person with the stringer of short bass
sitting on the shore drinking beer.

Hay I have a wall mount, so I have keep fish.  I still take home tournament
kills for my mom (depending on the lake).  in -2 you mentioned  that taking 
fish is natural.  Your CORRECT, but the popularity of bass fishing now
goes pass tournaments.  Every body how can get a boat bass fishs.

So if we don't CATCH AND RELEASE there will not be a sport left.  At least in
MASS the State program that stock all these bass no loner is around.  
Soon the Trout people will see the light as well now that the state can't
pay the few people to run fish & game the stocking program gets cut every year.

There has to be a fine line between Keep for food and release.  The bag limits
set in some states are for this.  But if every person that fished very day
keeps there limit or what every part of it they catch, there will be a problem.

Tournaments Do not keep fish, but I will admit B.A.S.S. now states 85% servival
is acceptable.  (they used to sa<y 95%).  Some fish may die.  Now I fish lots
of tournaments, but I would like to see a ban during the spawn of all 
tournaments.  My club tries not to fish a tournamnet during spawn, but
some ties it happens.  It's not always the same week.

Hay atleast the bass fisher person try!  did you every see a Deer Hunter
Blast and Release :^)

Bassin Bob

                Hey now, let's leave hunting out of this file
    please......
                Thank you in advance.
    
                       

    Jim
    
    The comments from folks before me are right on.  Depth finders are no
    more than a tool to help you find structure in a lake.  Many experts
    say that about 10% of a lake holds about 80% of the Bass.  All a fish
    finder does is help locate those structures that potentially may hold
    bass.  The second and equally important part of the fishing equation is
    presentation.  The fish finder will give you an idea of a good spot but
    if your not using the right lure and presentation forget it.  I believe
    In-Fisherman magazine has the right formula which is location +
    presentation = fish.  Fish finders don't mean much by them selves, just
    take a look at the tally at the end of a professional Bassmasters
    tournement and see how many Pro's get skunked or have short creels. 
    All tournies I have been in or watched practice catch and release and
    in fact penalize you for bringing in a dead one.  Fishing pressure in
    this area is slowly killing the ponds.  I have been fishing Johnsons
    pond in haverhill for years, each year it's getting harder to catch
    bass, every time I come in, I see the shore filled with folks taking
    out anything they catch.  The canoe next to  me had a stringer with a
    2+lb and 1/12lb bass and this guy does this every week.  Its his right
    and I don't argue that, but in Mass it takes along time for a bass to
    reach 2lbs and if people keep hauling out bass like that weekly, it
    won't be long before the populations are depleted to zip.  Our lakes
    have short summers, long cold winters and are not typically the size of
    Sam Clayburn or the Ochachobee lakes.  Yes tourniment fisherman are
    crying about our lack of fishes, because we practice conservation and
    can see how bleak the future is unless more places go to catch and
    release or at least set some sort of size or number limit.
    
    so please don't flame on and rant about your rights, none of us deny
    it, we just want to be sure that the future for our kids will have lots
    of lakes and ponds with lots of bass.
    
    Brian

    I think Keith summed it up pretty good.  Depthfinders (most folks don't
    refer to them as fish finders anymore) on bass boats in New England are 
    primarily used for navigation.  
    
    On the large lakes, while trolling deep water for salmanoids, a sonar
    unit can be more of a fish finder. 
    
    My bassboat is setup like most others with 2 sonar units.  I have one on 
    my console that I use strictly for navigation.  The one on my bow, with
    the transducer on the trolling motor, is used for letting me know my
    current depth, where the drop offs, creek channels and other forms of 
    structure are.  True, they will help an experienced fisherman catch more 
    fish.  They'll only confuse the novice.
    
    I agree that tournament fishing is helping the resource - not hurting
    it.  Around here, it's typically not the tournament fisherman who are
    taking home stringers. 
    
    But as Keith said - it's your right to keep as many fish as the law
    states.
    
    -donmac - catch and release 99% of the time

    So most of you guy's are pro-choice on catch and release huh ? Well,
    that's fine, but as the base note says, on my lake it is now mandated.

    It was the tournament fisherperson's who got the ban through. 

    You now what hurts bass fishing everywhere ? Destruction of habitat.

    On Sunset Lake, every year there are new homes built on the shore line,
    with big wide beach fronts. The reduction of bass over the last few
    years is probably due to this rather than people keeping fish. Hey,
    I'm an advocate for not fishing for bass period during the spawn
    season. Lets face it, taking a bass of it's nest isn't a good idea either.

    When I catch a bass while I'm out hornpout fishing, which is usually
    after the bass spawn season BTW, I want to keep it. 
    My wife got a three pounder a few weeks ago, it's in the freezer with my 
    hornpout and will be eaten at the same time as well. Now if I catch
    one, I gotta throw it back. One problem for the ban though, if you
    catch a bass on a hornpout hook, he often swallows it. So guess what
    ban the tournament fisherperson's are putting together next ? 


    Jim (pro-choice fisherperson)
    

    Do bass clubs really have enough clout to push through laws that suit
    their own needs?
    
    I would assume that although a club could request that the fish and
    game department consider new rules for a lake, the fish and game
    department would be the ones ultimately responsible for the decision.
    
    Why did F&G feel it was necessary to go to catch and release?
    
    I think your beef should be with F&G, not with the tournament
    fisherman.  You should be asking them for the data that was used to
    make that decision.
    
    I would think that the lake association, assuming there is one, would
    have alot more political clout than tournament fisherman.
    
    I feel that sective harvest is the way to, as popularized by
    In-fisherman.
    
    Some lakes can support the harvesting of fish for food, others can not.
    
    I enjoy eating fish and always do while I'm in remote areas camping.
    
    There are exceptions to every rule, but in general when I'm fishing 
    lakes near major population centers, I always release my bass. 
    
    -don
    

    RE-1

    Well, I see I've caused some misunderstanding, with regards to Sunset
    Lake. The catch & release rule is an association rule, not the Fish
    & Game dept. The F & G has no jurisdiction on Sunset Lake, cuz it is
    a private lake and is governed by the Far Hills Association. Like, we 
    don't need Fishing Licenses to fish. You must be a member or a guest to 
    fish on the lake however. 

    The rule was brought to the association meeting by the tournament
    anglers and pass by two votes. 

    Why did I post this here ? Because one, some people in this conference fish
    Sunset Lake, because some are members, some are guest and some may even
    trespass. Two, it's seems to be an idea that will  eventually (through 
    political lobbying efforts of tournament clubs),   come to other great 
    ponds throughout the  State before anyone who  opposes such mandates, 
    would have anything to say about it.


    Jim

    
    
    	Pardon my ignorance,but since when do Lake Associations have the
    clout/right to make LAWS.I always that only the State of Mass F&G could
    do that whether the lake is private or not.I know that lake Association
    helps in making rules that benefits the whole lake community,but I do
    not think that the rules are in any way legally enforceable.What are
    they going to do,take away your summer camp??? :-)
    
    
    
    	Inquiring mind would like to know
    
    	Frenchy
    

re-1

    As far as the Association is concerned, they do have the right to make
    their own laws. Just like Sportsmen Clubs who have their own privately
    stocked pond. They can set limits, set seasons and members are not 
    required to have a fishing license etc.

    I don't have a gripe with the association here. I'm more concerned with 
    organized clubs  that are lobbying for a state wide Catch & Release
    law.
    
    Jim

    I've never heard of any clubs lobbying for catch and release laws.
    
    Any of you MASS Federation boys here of such a thing?
    
    I *seriously* doubt a such law like that would even get considered,
    let alone passed. 
    
    Lake associations do not own the lake - as do sportsmans clubs who own 
    the land all around it and stock all the fish.  
    
    If the state is stocking the fish, I don't think the lake association
    has the right to say who can or cannot take them.
    
    I don't think too much of private lakes, let alone private laws to 
    rule them.  
    
    If I were you I'd be talking to the lake association and trying to get
    them to reverse their "recommendation" - I wouldn't even call it a rule
    - and I'd also call fish and game and ask them if this is within their 
    legal rights.  
    
    -donmac  

    I believe that you may be right here Don. The lake is fed from other
    bodies of water, so it's not stocked by the association, but really
    indirectly by the state.

    At any rate, I'll have to make my decision when I catch one as far
    as what I'll do. Heck, I usually fish at night anyway so who would
    know whether I caught a bass or not ?


    Jim

 In Massachusetts, I have a tough time believing such a rule could be enforced.

    
    
    I would agree with Don, but if its a case where the state owns the body
    of water and the fish in it, BUT the association owns all the land
    around it, all they have to do is post it NO TRESSPASSING and then
    nobody can fish there!! right?
    
       just a thought....
    
                                                         Lee
    

    Well, I checked last night and the Sunset Lake is not considered a 
    "great pond" lake and is privately owned by the Far Hill's Association
    which I'am a member. The lake is not under the jurisdiction of the
    state F&G department and fishing is governed by the association.
    That's why we don't need licenses.

    According to a guy I spoke to last night who is pro-catch and release,
    the rule was prompted by the small size and low amounts of bass being 
    caught this summer at the lake. I guess if you fish exclusively for bass,
    which I don't, you'll would have noticed the decline over the past
    couple years. At any rate, I guess he converted me a little, and as he
    said, it's really a temporary rule to see if we can improve the
    fishing and then go to a selective harvest regulation.

    So I guess I'm thinking a little more open about the idea. 

    Sorry if I peeved anyone off with my saber rattling!

    Jim

Question:   Is this lake less than 25 arces?
Bb

    RE:19
    
    I'm not sure. Why ?