Conference vmszoo::rc

    Boy oh boy!  I built dozens of these years ago as a kid.  I haven't
    fooled with them for a loooooong time but have a coupla' Comet kits
    stashed as 'someday' projects.  I should be able to offer some degree
    of help in the building/covering departments but was never what
    I'd call a wizard at trimming (though most of my models flew reasonably
    well).   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    You bet !  There are still a bunch of us out here who can't
    seem to get away from the basics of stick and tissue.  I've
    seen comments in these many note files that would attest to
    that, and as time goes by I'm sure that there will be some
    cross referencing to that effect.  All one needs to do is 
    read mags like Model Builder and Flying Models to see that
    it is a pervading affliction for many, young and old alike.
    
    And, as Al just alluded to, if you go back over his many
    contributions, and others, in these files you'll get a lot
    of good scoop that applies to good building techniques in
    general.
    
    I do indeed love engines and R/C, they're wonderful - BUT,
    when I find the need to "Cleanse my Soul", and re-affirm my
    love affair with Aeromodelling, I caress the balsa sticks,
    nose blocks, and carved props, fuss and fuss with dope and
    light tissue, and then pay no attention to some neighbors
    who must regard me as an eccentric old man when, with a couple
    of young kids in tow, we seem to be having a ball with those
    silly little airplanes.  (The kids think I walk on water !)
    
    Sound melodramatic ?  maybe, but it really is a lot of fun.
    Some work, too !
    
    Covering seems to scare a lot of people, but it really is an
    over-rated problem.  A little care, a little preparation, a
    little patience, you'll see !       Others will help.  Faith.
    
    John N.

    Boy, this note brings back a bunch of memories! I still have a 4"
    scar in my right thigh from trying to cut out some stringers in
    1/16" balsa in my lap rather than a good solid table top.
    Nobody ever said 10-11 year olds had any sense.
    
    Two weeks ago started on a "peanut" Zero (7" wingspread) Sure
    is a lot easier with CA adhesives than with the old "airplane
    glue".
    
    If this project turns out O.K. then I'm committed to having to
    build one each for my four grandsons, but then I think my ERA-type
    grandaughters will claim discrimination and I'll have to build
    two more. Pretty soon I'll have more planes than United -:)
    
    Drop in any hints you care to, I could sure use them!
    
    Chuck
    

    I came across an article in Flying Models that suggested using a
    mixture of 70% wood glue and 30% water to use on the bare frame
    while applying the tissue. I starterd covering the P40 in this fashion
    last night. This morning everything looked nice and tight. The article
    also said to use once the whole thing is covered. I'll try it and
    let you know how I made out.

    re: .4
    
    I read the same article, and will be interested in hearing 
    about your results.  I have not used this technique..
    preferring to use thinned dope.  Of course this means that
    the whole covered area (open frame) must then be doped as
    well, otherwise some pulling of the tissue (wrinkle) may
    occur at the edges.  Also, I have found that it is best
    to complete the doping job as soon as possible so that pulling
    is uniform.  The few times that I have chosen not to dope the
    model, I have carefully used sparse amounts of resin cement
    (Ambroid).  It has worked, but, fuss..fuss..
    
    Your reported results with the wood glue will influence my
    next attempt. Which, incidentally, will be the Flying Aces "Moth".
    (A few of us here at APO plan to start "Noonsie" flights, with
    rubber or HLG's)
    
    John                        p.s.  I'm a resin rat.  Even following
                                      CA, or Aliphatic, I never feel
                                      secure unless I follow up with
                                      a small smear of Ambroid on the
                                      joint.  I hope I get over it !
    

RE .4,.5

    I've built quite a few stick and tissue models using wood glue & water for
    the tissue. There are some advantages and some disadvantages. One big
    advantage is that there are no fumes. The biggest advantage is that the
    moisture in the glue/water mix makes the tissue go limp so it will wrap
    around sharp curves like the leading and trailing edges without a struggle.
    With dope I always had trouble keeping the tissue down until the dope was
    dry enough to hold it. One disadvantage is that the moisture in the
    glue "wicks" into the tissue a little bit and makes it start to shrink. This 
    doesn't seem to be a problem if you wet & shrink the tissue on the
    wing since the "pucker" around the edge shrinks out. I've covered one plane
    this way without shrinking the covering but the glue has to be put on
    carefully. Another disadvantage could be weight. I've never done
    an actual weight comparison but the wood glue seems to be a little heavier.
    Anyway, I use the wood glue just to get rid of the dope fumes.

G. Schrader

Re: .6

When I used tissue and dope in my CL days I always wet the tissue before 
putting it on. This allowed it to wrap limp and the dope went through the
wet tissue just fine. It tended to trap some water and cloud but this gave
visual feedback as to where you had painted and was released with the next 
coat. I used silk with tissue over it as a covering that came out like 
leather and the tissue was far quicker to seal and shrunk tighter. Ah, the
good old days when you didn't need a 20 amp circuit to build a model!

One other think I did was to paint the structure with a full strength coat 
of dope and then put the tissue on with 50% thinned dope.

Jim (who still has a tube of 20+ sheets of silkspan in his shop)

    I developed this method, after I could never get a decent finish
    by 'following the book' e.g. apply tissue with dope; when dry wet
    to shrink; when dry apply dope to shrink further and seal.
    
    First completly soak the tissue; complete saturation, wring out
    the excess water. Then apply glue to the bits of the model you are
    going to cover; I used paper glue e.g. Elmers (?).
    
    Carefully unravell and straighten out the wet tissue and immediately
    apply to the model; its a finger tips job. Pull tight; mold around
    corners and edges, but do not trim.
    
    In its wet state, the tissue goes on tight and doesn't 'flap' around.
    As it, and the glue, dries out it becomes drum tight. When dry, I
    would simply trim the excess and then apply a coat of dope.
    
    The results I got were superb. A drum tight covering with no wrinkles.
    And dead easy to apply, especially around complex shapes.   
    
    Angus                                                    

    Thanks WFGANIAK (What's your first name?) for bringing this
    subject up.  At the risk of seeming melodramatic again, forgive
    me, I'd just like to make some more comments.
    
    I get the very distinct impression from reading some of the 
    replies that there are a bunch of you out there that would
    fit into the category of : "It's been so-o-o-o long ago, etc."
    But of course, in reality, it's all still very much with you.
    Just under the surface, ready to bloom again at the slightest
    provocation.  Whenever you see one - you want one.
    
    Do you really want to have a good feeling about your hobby?
    Not that you don't already - but this is different !
    
    By all means, build your late model, state-of-the-art beautiful
    creation.  It's wonderful. In fact the stuff we have, and can do
    these days boggles my mind. BUT ! - when you are fussing and
    hustling at your bench over some technologicaly challenging subject-
    Have a bony, framed stick and tissue classic hanging from the 
    ceiling over your head.  It will cascade blessings upon you.
    
    And may the alignment gods be with you !  
                                                       john

    The name is Walt but my friends call me Capt'n Wally.

    
    What follows is an article taken in its entirety from the 
    latest issue of SAM SPEAKS.  It may be of interest to some
    of you (and me) tissue freaks.
    
    A NEW APPROACH TO DYED TISSUE     - By Bud Perry
    
      Read on - I am not trying to talk you into another of those
    bathtub brainstorms.
      I've been coloring model airplanes using this method for years.
    Unlike Floquil or butyrate jar skimming, I don't have to take out
    a loan to finish a project.
      All large food markets and fabric outlets sell Rit dye.  The 
    powdered kind comes in an infinite variety of colors, and can be
    used straight or mixed with other colors to give that "just right"
    blend.
      I use baby food jars for mixing.  Open a pouch of Rit dye and
    pour a few of the "beads" in the jar, then pour some dope thinner
    on top of them.  You'll be surprised how quickly the thinner 
    "snatches" the color from the dye.
      Keep blending and putting raw balsa sticks in the jar and hold-
    ing them next to the sample color you want.  When you are satisfied
    as to the proper shade, add about 20% clear dope to your mix.
      I always put a couple of thin coats of clear dope on the model
    to eliminate "creeping" before I start adding color.  It is formul-
    ated to resist fading in sunlight, and if you save a little in a
    jar, you'll have some for patching.  Just add thinner - there's
    no pigment to worry about.
      Rit gives a "richer than life" color to Golden Age aircraft and
    flats sprayed on for military jobs are really life-like.
      Work with it - it takes longer to tell about it that it does to
    do it !  (From Flying Aces Club News - Lin Reichel, Editor and 
    Aero News - Jim Alaback, Editor).
    
    Regards, John

    Just a quick blurb to see if this note still has a following.
    
    Some of us (we) modelers here at APO (Andover, MA) have become
    quite interested in a nostalgic return to our first loves, at
    least temporarily, and are putting together stick & tissue types.
    
    We intend to have "noon-time" flyoffs in an adjacent ball field.
    It's amazing how much interest and comment it has generated.
    
    Without their prior permission (I'll probably catch some static!)
    I'll mention some specifics:
    
    Bill Heywood, who has recently completed a very beautifully done
    Byron Pitts, has come in with a 20" rubber powered pylon racer
    type called the Super Sport.
    
    Jim O'neill, a qualified RC instructor and presently flying several
    RC types, has come in with an 20" "Comet" Cessna C 37.
    
    Bill Kurtz, also an RC'er, is doing an 18" Spit, from plans.
    
    I've just completed a "Flying Aces" Moth from Peck Polymers.
    
    And more - - -
    
    The beauty of this type of diversion is that we can all "show
    and tell", "touch and feel", "shoot the bull" , -AND FLY-
    right here, close in at the plant, as the mood takes us, on
    a daily basis.  Of course, it goes without saying-all this
    during breaks and lunch hours only!
    
    best regards, john N

    Oh to be a kid again. Yesterday, a friend of mine here at work 
    (John Nataloni) and a few of us guy's went out at lunch to put the
    first flight on his new stick and tissue plane. I'm not sure of this
    guy's age but if I had had my eye's closed I'd swear he was in his
    early teens. I really forgot how much fun a stick and tissue could be.
    I myself have one ready to cover and yesterdays trip to the past has
    given me the boot to get it done soon. I flew my R/C plane yesterday
    after work and as funny as it may sound, didn't have as much fun as
    watching the little glider float around over head. This is not to say
    I'm gonna turn my back to R/C but it really makes for a nice break in
    the speed, glop, noise and complexity ( chargers, flight box, ect.)
    of flying the big one's.

    I've just finished covering my P-40 Warhawk. Next I have to build
    the belly pan in,cover it then wind it up and let it go. If I'm
    not to embarassed on Monday I'll post the results.
    Keep em Flying.
    Walt