Conference vmszoo::rc

> In my Berliner-Joyce plans they specifically call for Top flight
> Ball and Socket Strut fittings.  I checked with my local hobby shop and 
> Ernie asked his distributor and apparently top flight doesn't make them any
> more.  I had about given up on using Ball and Sockets until I saw the review
> of this Travel Air 2000 kit.  

*  Ball sockets in several configurations are readily available from a number of
manufacturers.  I'm almost positive Du Bro and Goldberg have a line of these 
handy items and I'd be quite surprised to learn Top Flite really discontinued 
them, assuming, of course, that they once made them.

> What are the masters using for mounting struts.

* Mostly, they use whatever scale method was used for attachment, usually a 
small bolt through a tab anchored in the wing.

> Al - you might start a separate note on the subject of Struts and
> Wires - I haven't even seen any up close.  To me the most dreaded thing
> about building certain planes is the complexity of the interwing struts
> and guy wires.  

* Kay, I can't claim any expertise in this particular area and frequently find 
myself as much at sea as you are.  For sport, any means to an end is acceptable.
My Bucker Jungmeister (the ol' "Yeller Peril") has bicycle spoke-ends mounted in
the ends of the interplane (outboard) struts; the spoke-ends are bent 90-degrees
to the strut and snap into the V-slots of nylon Goldberg snap-on cowl attachment
tabs anchored into the wing.  Other methods I've seen are clevises mounted into 
the struts which attach to the ends of control horns buried in the wing, even
velcro has been used satisfactorily.

> When are they functional?  How can you tell?

* Normally, at least on smaller models, flying wires are merely decorative.  The
plans should specifically state if struts/wires are functional to structural in-
tegrity.

> If they are functional how to you anchor them securely.

* Metal tabs are built into the structure and flying wires are attached and 
tautened using miniature turnbuckles like those available in the boat-section 
of most hobby shops.  Lou Proctor also offers a line of turnbuckles and other 
hardware needed for rigging biplanes.

> If they are not functional do you make they break away easily?

* The most common material I've seen used for "non"-functional flying wires is 
simple round [spaghetti] elastic with a loop at the ends which is hooked over 
a wire hook anchored in the adjacent structure.  This can be painted, if neces-
sary and will pull away harmlessly in the event of a "sudden stop."

> Of course I would not like to spend 20 minutes at the field
> putting the wings on.

* I hear ya'!  Even the ol' Bucker takes about 15-minutes to assemble and it 
does "not" have flying wires.  It's rigged about as simply as possible but still
requires extra time for assembly...I'm afraid that's just one of the crosses a
bipe pilot has to bear.  The best bet, if the model is small enough, is to rig 
it so it can be left assembled and still have access to the necessities via 
hatches and such.

Adios,	Al

>*  Ball sockets in several configurations are readily available from a number of
>manufacturers.  I'm almost positive Du Bro and Goldberg have a line of these 
>handy items and I'd be quite surprised to learn Top Flite really discontinued 
>them, assuming, of course, that they once made them.

Ah - but I think ball and socket strut fittings are different than generic
ball and socket fittings.  The problem stems from the angle that
the socket has to make to the ball.  In the case of most interwing struts
it would have to go almost straight up whereas most ball and sockets are
used in control linkage and the socket is at a 90 degree angle to the
mounted ball.  Are you with me.  So it looks like it would be impossible
to snap a socked on a ball mounted on a wing.

Comments?

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

You know, I've seen those ball and socket thingies in the store
and have thought that they'd be nice for something, who knows
what.  Do you really use them in control linkage, and what's
their advantage over the nylon clips?  Maybe I'm thinking of
only small models -- and they work wonderfully on the larger
ones?  (Anything bigger than an Eaglet is quarter scale to me!)

    Kay, 
    
    It's certainly more than possible that something like that might've
    gotten past me but, if a specialized ball/socket for interplane
    strut attachment was ever available, through Top Flite or anyone
    else, I never heard of it.  This is something I'd definitely have
    taken note of as clean/simple/strong attachment of struts has been
    a pain in the modeler's side virtually forever.
    
    I hear you as to the difficulty(ies) involved in adapting a generic
    type ball socket to this application but I'm sure a little head
    scratching would produce a simple method of doing so.  For instance:
    if a socket were anchored into the wing such that the opening faced
    straight up, the corresponding ball could be mounted into the end
    of the strut and simply pressed into place.  Another possibility,
    while not quite as clean appearing, is to mount the ball to a ply
    tab anchored into the wing and protruding above/below the wing surface.
    The 90-degree socket would then be mounted to the end of the strut
    and installed by snapping onto the ball in a sideways motion.  No
    doubt, better/cleaner methods could be devised with a little thought.
    
    Adios,	Al

    Re: _.3, John,
    
    I tend not to trust ball/sockets on anything but non-critical functions
    such as throttle, rudder, flaps, etc. where a failure will not create
    a fatal situation.  I'd "NEVER" use them on aileron or elevator!  I
    "did" use an aileron linkage-to-servo coupler on a .40 size Sweet
    Stik once but the nylon socket cracked and I had to replace it with
    a more trustworthy attachment.  Cracking of the nylon socket seems
    to be the primary weakness of these otherwise neat gadgets.
    
    In the MiG-3 I used a peened ball and socket for connecting my throttle
    cable to the carb arm and the strip-aileron set for connecting the
    flap servo linkage to the flap torque rods.  In 3+ years, the
    ball/sockets have performed flawlessly in these applications but,
    again, I never even considered them for ailerons or elevator, sticking
    instead to the tried and true clevise.
    
    Adios,	Al