Conference vmszoo::rc

    Yep, you can definitely start in RC with helicopters. I did. The
    problems you run into doing that is that you really have two things
    to learn. One is RC in general and the other is flying the chopper.
    Some of the problems I've had are directly related to being new
    to RC. Little things like how to cure engine problems and keep nicad
    batteries happy. For that this notes file has been invaluable.
    
    Which chopper to choose? Just like the planes, the bigger the better.
    I fly a GMP Cobra, have heard excellent things about the Schluter
    Champion, and am looking for good things from Miniature Aircraft's,
    X-Cell series. What ever you choose, get an expert to help you set
    the thing up after you install it.
    
    Altitude. Hmmm, last time I visited the R.C. club in Col. Springs
    I was told they have a member or two  flying choppers. Seem to recall
    hearing else where of some adjustments needing to be made to
    compensate. That should come under having an expert help you set
    up the copter. Just make sure you don't buy an engine on the low
    range of the power scale.
    
    Dan Eaton
    

		  In a lot of ways it's easier to learn to fly a
	helicpoter if you've no fixed wing experience.... Things that
	become instinctive on planes are really bad news when applied
	to helicopters. For example it is not a good idea to cut the
	throttle when you get into trouble, unless you carry a lot
	of spare parts.. Similarly if your new toy is heading towards
	the ground and you  put in back stick to make the
	helicopter climb, it will promptly tip  over backwards and
	reverse into the ground.... It's not till you get to flying
	circuits, ie quite advanced that the orientaion learned on fixed
	wings comes in useful, ie when it's heading away from you left
	stick makes it turn left, when it's coming for you (they know where
	you are) left stick makes it turn to your right.


		In fact to get further than flying around yourself
	most people find it necessary to give up fixed wing flying
	completely.... If two people started to learn to fly a Heli,
	one of them hadn't even seen a plane and the other was Hanno 
	Prettner, I wouldn't put my money on Hanno to learn to fly
	first..
                 
		The secret is lots and lots and lots of practise..

    I agree with both of the above replies.  There are a couple of things
    that have been said that are worth underlining.  One, is that it
    the higher elevation, I would recommend a chopper with collective
    pitch and do go for an engine with adaquate power.  I understand
    that the OS long strokes are working out well with the choppers,
    although I do not have one.  Another point that Dan made is that
    the larger the easier to see.  Please find someone to help you
    set the chopper up and give you pointers on flying.  Also, please
    make some type of training gear.  Flying a helicopter is different
    that a plane in that an instructor will usually not have time to 
    take the box from you if you get in trouble.  I did fly planes 
    before I took up choppers, and one bad habit I learned was to make
    all my turns using the ailerons and developed a lazy left thumb.
    You need all inputs for a chopper.
    I do think you are making a good choice if you have a great deal
    of patience.  If not, you had better think of something else.
    
    Ken
    box from you in a chopper 

	I agree with Ken... learning to fly Helicopters is very much
	a solo affair.. So you need to get as much in your favour as
	possible, ie get the helicopter trimmed out by an experienced
	flier,  get a giro to take the pain out of controlling the
	tail..


	A smple and cheap training aid is two 4ft sticks, strapped to
	the skids in a cross. A plastic ball on the end of each stick
	aids stability.... All very effective


	Aparrently the new Schluter machine has spacers on each control
	rod, so it is set up correctly from the start..


	bob

    I am trying to persuade myself to get a chopper at the moment and
    have not flown RC at all, although I do have some RC experience
    from boats and cars so am only slightly better of than yourself.
    
    All the replies so far to your enquiry sound like good advice to
    me - I have been researching the subject quite thouroughly from
    books and magazines.
    
    Having visited several helicopter specialist shops and flying sites
    here in the UK recently one chopper kit which is getting pretty
    rave reviews for beginners and as a second chopper for experienced
    flyers is the Hirobo Shuttle.
    
    Here in the UK this retails for 275 to 299 pounds and is complete
    except for radio gear. It comes almost ready to fly with an OS28F-H
    motor.
    
    It  has a flapping type collective head and has toothed belt drive
    to the tail rotor which apparently aids a nice smooth hover - sounds
    good for beginners!
    
    All the linkages are pre-installed and adjusted at the factory so
    as long as you get the radio gear installed the right way round
    and have an expert give it the once-over before you take to the
    air it sounds pretty idiot-proof ( hence my interest ! ).
    
    Even the main rotor blades are balanced and painted at the factory
    so the manufacturers claim that you can have it in the air the same
    day you buy it sounds possible.
    
    It also appeals to me because, although it is a pod and boom 
    configuration, you can get fuselages ( the Hirobo ones are very 
    expensive but shops like Dave Nieman in England are producing their
    own mouldings for you to trim and finish for about 60 pounds 
    sterling ) to make it look like a 'real' chopper.
    
    When you get past the hovering stage the Shuttle apparently has
    enough performance to do aerobatics but is 'soft' enough for beginners.
    
    Having given such a glowing sales pitch for it I do not know how
    it would perform in your rarified atmosphere - it has a relatively
    small rotor at around 41" - would this have an effect - perhaps
    the experts in this conference could advise.
    
    Has anyone actually tried one of these kits - I have only found
    one or two so far ( complete beginners but from my lack of experience
    it sounds as if they are making out OK with it ) - I would appreciate
    any input before I make the plunge myself!
    
    I hope my inexperienced input does not offend the experts and may
    help - I look forward following your progress.
    
    Good luck
    
    Brian
     
    

    I have not had any personal experience with the Shuttle, but I have
    heard from several people that have either had them or know people
    that have had them.  I have heard two basic comments.  
    1.  The Shuttle is not a bad flying machine.  I have seen the shuttle
    flown by experts and they are capable of doing acrobatics as well
    as basic flight, however, due to the small size, it is a little
    harder to see, causing slightly more orientation problems.  It must
    be flown closer to the pilot.
    
    2.  The Shuttle is much less crash resistant due to the plastics
    used in its construction.  There is also somewhat more slop in the
    linkages, however, I am not sure how much this tends to affect the
    flying.  I do know that the Shuttle does have a tendency for tail
    boom strikes, and have recently seen a modification for the head
    to make it more rigid to prevent the tail boom strikes.  If you
    do consider a Shuttle (also true with any chopper), one important
    consideration is the availability of repair parts.  Also, it is
    recommended that the Shuttle not be flown in temperatures below
    40 degrees f. (approx. 5 degrees C.), since the plastic becomes
    more brittle and tends to fracture easier.

		Helicopters are very complicated machines. You
	stand a lot better chance of flying and maintaining one if
	you know how it works, and how the various control linkages
	interract. There's a lot more to be gained from building one
	than just the satisfaction of managing to turn a box full of
	wierd little plastic bits into something which may some day fly.
	This all sounds very deep, but I have been up all night.


		I've never flown a Shuttle, but the guy from my local
	model shop got a couple in. He took one up the field and didbn't
	seem wildly impressed.. It's lack of size mkes it difficult to
	fly.. Also check out the cost of spares.

		The Morley models are great to start with. They do 
	require assembling, but I feel that gives you a lot of 
	confidence in the machine.. One great thing it's got going
	for it is availability of spares. Don't know wether Thames 
	Valley Models stock them, but Gregories in Basinstoke carry 
	a all the spare bits.. The Kalt Cyclone is a popular learning
	machine, but a pair of main blades costs 11 pounds-ish, the
	Morley blades are 5 pounds. Personally I wouldn't go near a 
	Shuttle, but then I like fiddling..
                            

	cheers

	bob

    
    
    	I have a shuttle and am quite pleased with it. I haven't crashed
    it recently, but when I was first learning I did crash it. It does
    well in crashes.... (cheap little parts bent instead of big ones).
    If you really smash it in the shuttle will probably not do as well
    as a metal helicopter. I have had mine now for over a year and 
    I still am happy with it. It will hover hands off for short periods
    of time (3-5 secs).
    

       As long as we're on the subject, I'll throw this in. I attended
    the local RC copter club's meeting last night. The new rage is the
    GMP version of the Hirobo Stork. People were impressed with the
    stability of the machine. At the last fun fly (I missed it) they
    were trying it out and it was so stable that they were handing the
    transmitter back and forth like the copter was a fixed wing trainer.
    In forward flight, they said it was just like flying a fixed wing
    pattern ship.

    
    
    	WOW...... thanks evryone for all the info.  I think I might
    be starting to get some direction in my quest for the "enternal
    wind beaters".
    	Dan and I were talking the other day and brought up the subject
    of "single Stick" as in starting out that way. The conssus was
    as begineer learning one set of skills would not be really any
    different than learning them for another. What does everyone else
    think on the subject.
    	What about used copters? Seems like a good way to save a few
    bucks, but then you loose the experiance of assembly. At least
    until the first time it crashes.
    
    
    						Mike.
    

    Mike,
    I think, like Dan, that it would be just as easy to learn on single
    stick as dual stick.  However, there are a couple of things that
    you should consider when deciding.  One is, single stick radios
    are somewhat more expensive and the selection is not quite as large,
    since it is less popular.  Also, in getting a single stick helicoptor
    trimmed out, there will be fewer (possibly no one) people willing
    to help you set up your chopper since they are not familiar with
    flying a single stick chopper, and would not want to take undue
    chances with someone elses chopper.
    
    As far as a used chopper, make sure that it is a current machine,
    and that you have repair parts available.  Also, try to get someone
    with experience to look at it with you to make sure that you don't
    get a machine with more hidden expenses than a new one would be.
    I would never buy a used chopper from an ad, sight unseen.
    
    Ken