Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Excuse my ignorance but why not hay ? All three deer taken in my
    neighborhood during hunting seasons were full of grasses - the
    kind found in old orchards which looks like witch grass with little 
    apparent nutrional value. This surprised us because it appeared that
    they were feeding on wild blackberry and raspberry shoots/vines,
    whenever droppings were found in the woods. The amount of droppings in
    the orchards were more prevalent than the recently (2-4 years ago)
    logged areas which yielded the shoots and vines. I've wondered about
    setting out some hybrid rasp/black berry vines in the woods to allow to
    go wild. Once estacblished they seen to thrive and love the pruning.
    
    How 'bout mineral salt blocks like they use for horses. Some have
    vitamins and supplements. These one pounders, once drilled could be
    easily attached to old stumpage.
    
    Another thought mentioned at my local R&G was to plant rhododendrons in
    the woods. Seems that on the Cape and Islands this is one of the
    preferred deer foods because of the size of the seed pods once the
    flowers have dropped. Here again the pruning seems to help the plant
    increase production.
    
    I've been out snowshoe'n through swamps, hemlock and laurel and have
    yet to cut a track. I even found a hay bale someone left and there
    wasn't any sign that it had been touched over the past several weeks.  

    
    Cracked Corn  (Deer & Turkeys)
    
    Alfalfa Bales (condensed pellets used out West to feed Elk)
    
    
          The state of N.H. has asked for folks to FEED Turkeys as they are 
    having a harder time than deer. It's understandable the state asks people
    not to feed the deer as most won't feed them properly. It's funny how two
    abutting states have a different outlook on the deer. New Hamspshire is
    saying that if snow continues the mortality rate will be 1 in 4, but Mass
    says they are not in trouble "yet", and there have been worse years in the
    past and the deer have come out fine. So who do you believe?
    
    
                                                                   Guy

    
       
       Usually there's enough natural feed in the woods. The prior info. 
    about maple shoots is great. I keep cutting the stems from maple/beach
    stumps.
       Agway in Gardner Ma. has a high proten mix that's seems good for
    Turkeys, birds, and most small animals. Deer like it too... It's a
    high pro. formular (beef cow) of cracked corn w/ alph./timothy/molassis(sp).
    
       50 lbs. was $6.50. Deer need plenty of water when this is feed to
    them. About three weeks ago the smaller deer were hitting it hard.
    All the deer seemed to have vanished. I saw tracks crossing the
    road. Smaller anaimals are still at the feed. The deer went to the river
    near the cedar swamp. I haven't ventured to any of the three yards in
    my area. When the snow was about 24 inched deep the deer still had the
    advantage.  
        
        MY traveling to a yard would give "All Dogs" a means of entry. This
    was a real mistake the winter or '67 and '69 in Westminster. Many
    locals were dispatched by Game Wardens to capture and or possible shoot
    dogs "in the act" of killing deer. The problem was: the soft, 36" plus of
    snow actually protected the herd. When man entered on snow shoes during
    the day he gave (in those days) domestic dogs a way in. I can't imagine
    what wild dogs would do to a herd if they found then. 
        
                                               Ken
    
     
    
    

    
    Re:1494.1
    
    >Excuse my ignorance but why not hay ?
    
     From what I have learned and been told deer cannot digest hay if they
    take in too much it will kill them.
    
     Deer are browsers, in Colorado thet tend to eat sage and they love
    nuts from scrub oak. But the dept. of Wildlife says not to feed deer
    hay!
    
    Dave

            Thats word i got from D.O.W . A good example in during the
    winter of 1972-73 the snow fall was so bad that ranchers could not get
    to their cattle herds in the high pastures, so they enlisted the help
    of Fort Carson to fly and air drop hay bales to their cattles stranded
    in the high country. Come the spring thaw D.O.W. personnel found large 
    groups  (hundreds) of dead deer that appeared healthy. Fearing some type of
    dease they sent so of they to vets to be checked and found most to have
    large blockages in their intestine from hay. They figured that small
    amounts of hay with other foods would have been fine. But due to the
    deep snow the deer went for the exposed hay bales.
                                   KIM

it takes deer weeks to cross over from one food source to another.  Back when
grasses were available thats what they ate.  Deer have been found dead from 
starvation with stomachs full of hay...  If your going to feed them, use 
anything but hay.  right now the deer are hitting the orchard pretty heavy at 
my in-laws for apple drops... not much digging involved as most of the ground 
is bare from the wind.

Fortunately so far we havn't had any rain that would freeze the snow and crust 
it up...  so the deer can get around pretty much at will and digging for acorns 
or grasses is still pretty easy.  Predators can't cruise over the snow with 
any speed without the crust so the deer are in good shape for now.  pray for
no snow or at least dry snow and no rain.

this summer you might want to think about planting winter rye, nothing more
involved than throwing handfulls of seed everywhere during your travels...

FWIW, Fra

    I think Fra said it all when he said to plant the food plot.  There are
    many types of wildlife blends/clovers etc that provide feed for many
    different species of wildlife (some good eating).  It also provides a
    nice place to hunt around when season is open.
    
    If you have the time and can do it.
    
    
    Wess

    An article in today's Worcester, Ma Tel & Gaz had information provided
    by the MA. F&G that deer and turkeys should not be fed. The explanation
    given was that deer, being ruminants (ie having 4 stomachs) take a full
    month of consuming an item to activate the proper digestive bacteria 
    needed to break down that diet whereby they can be getting the
    nutrional benefit from that diet. This shifting of diets from browse to
    apples to acorns etc. occurs gradually. Introduction of an item such as
    hay, cracked corn or any other "supplement" might be consumed by no
    nutrional value will be obtained until weeks of that foodstuff has
    activated the correct digestive bacteria. They will be able to digest
    it but to no benefit. The damage results in that they'll weaken during
    the transitional period if the substitute diet becomes their primary
    food.
    With turkey, it's a problem of congregation in that there isn't a
    problem with digestion or nutrion. Rather the problem is created in
    that the turkeys will tend to congregate in the area whrer they're fed
    (usually a backyard vs. woods) resulting in their death due to dogs,
    cars, etc. It's the change of habitat that's dangerous not so much the
    feed.
    Interesting food for thought! Sorry, but I couldn't resist :^) 
    Besides, this spring thaw has taken care of the problem.
    
    -bob 

    re: Besides, this spring thaw has taken care of the problem.
    
    Maybe in some places, but with 2-3' of snow still on the ground in
    much of Southern NH, I think it may hurt.  As someone mentioned, with
    the snow soft, they can paw thru to get to the bottom.  However, when
    the temps cool back down, the deer may find they have a foot or 2 of 
    solid snow/ice covering to go thru. 
    
    I like the idea of dropping trees for them to browse on.  Tempted...
    
    -don mac

    
    
       Fra was right about the hay, thats the worste thing you can give the
    deer at this time of year, if it was started earlier in the season
    while the deer could mix that with other foods they could then digest
    it.
      I have personally seen deer in deer yards that died of starvation
    with full stomachs of hay, and also i have seen deer die from blockages
    because of hay. 
      We used to feed deer corn, we made our own feeders from old elecric
    cable spools from the local electric company. and the bad winters of
    the late 70's early 80's i saw deer turn from very human warry animals 
    to animals that would stand no more than 10 feet away as we loaded the
    feeders with corn. , the turkeys would move a little farther away. 
      when we had to get to feeders via snow machines the deer would
    litterally run behind us on the trail the machine made.  also the idea
    of feeding the deer with an axe is probably the cheapest and best way
    to help the wildlife, it wont do much for the turkeys but it will
    certainly help the deer and rabbits, just so people dont go out and
    wack down a whole pile of young oak trees.
       Clear cutting is done in Pa in late fall and during the winter, that
    practice has improved the habitat greatly, last winter we were clearing
    a horse pasture on our farm back home, we had a brush pile that was
    probably a 30 foot circle and about 12 feet high, the deer would
    actually stand and eat from the pile on the opposite side that we were
    working on. and i cant even tell ya how many times while cutting
    firewood deer have walked right up and ate buds off the branchs i
    trimmed of the logs.
        We have lost almost all of our snow out here, we had about 3-4 feet
    where i live, the warm spell we had did a good job, but the downpours
    we had last night wiped away the rest of it. altho now in the last hour
    the temps have dropped drastically and its snowing, so everything is
    ice now. I do think the deer will be able to get to some food easier
    now in most areas.
    
                                             Lee
    

    Lee,
    
         All the snow around Lake O is gone!!!! I was going to be asking
    you what was going on out that way. Hmmm, tough planning for this 
    springs outing... 
    
    Whoops, hunting season is over and there I go thinking about fishing
    already........
    
    These deer will be hurting for sure when this mess freezes. An inch of
    ice is more detramental than 3 feet of snow......
    
    Bob M �

    
    
    
     Bob,
    
      yeap alot of the snow is gone, as far as the lake goes well there
    shouldnt be a water shortage problem this spring, as a matter a fact we
    are setting at the same lake level as we had may 1993 and we had some
    major flooding. so if ya may be able to fish in my yard:-)
    
      as far as this ice goes, if there was a foot of snow on the ground 
    and we had a rain and then a quick freeze, then yes the animals are
    in trouble, but with no snow they are actually better off with the ice.
      the deer expend alot of energy trying to get around thru the snow,
    now they will be able to move around relatively freely to browse and
    find those acorns the squirrels hid this last fall, and also whatever
    apple drops that are left.
    
                    Lee
    

    I live in Central N.H. and have always put out sunflower seeds for the
    birds in the winter. I always throw plenty on the ground to satisfy the 
    squirrels. About a week ago we notice a few Turkeys coming to the bird
    feeders early in the morning. Well I have chickens and decided to throw 
    some cracked corn on the ground for the Turkeys,big mistake!!!!
    We are know getting up to 30+ Turkeys showing up to feed and I stopped
    putting out the cracked corn but the wife got mad and was afraid they
    would die so I'm back to feeding them again.
    Before anyone jumps down my throat,we live on a farm that has no dogs
    and to far from traffic,BUT there have been a few large Foxes scouting
    out the Turkeys.
    
    Also I found 3 dead Turkeys in the woods with there heads bit off,I
    suspect they propably got jumped by a Weasel.
    
                                       JC

    When I raised turkeys in the past, I was told to never pen them  or
    feed them near chickens, as the chicken manure contains parasites and
    diseases leathal to turkeys. Not sure how true this is, but thought I'd
    mention it in case you free range your chickens.
    
    Glad to hear they're around, the flock in my neighborhood hasn't been
    seen or heard in awhile. 

    Yes I have been told the same thing. The chickens are in the barn and
    don't run free and the wild turkey are a distance from the barn.
    
    

What ever you do not feed deer corn. According to the local ministry office 
corn is too high in starch content and the subsequent digestive fermantation 
causes a potential high intestinal bacterial growth. If you are going to feed 
corn mix half and half with cracked oates. 

Around here you can get deer feed formulated to feed fallow deer. Cattle feed 
pelets is not too bad either. The problem with supplemental feeding is that 
once you start you have to keep at it, as you are messing with the deers 
digestive and metabolic systems. Sporadic feeding can end up more detrimental 
that helpful. Recommend you check with local wildlife office for instructions 
and recommendations.

Les