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Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

Title:The Hunting Notesfile
Notice:Registry #7, For Sale #15, Success #270
Moderator:SALEM::PAPPALARDO
Created:Wed Sep 02 1987
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1561
Total number of notes:17784

1307.0. "Hunting Other Countries" by GLDOA::ROGERS (I'm the NRA) Mon Oct 04 1993 15:34

			A Note by Proxy from an Old Member.

	Hi there long missed HUNTING companions. I hope that you are all
	well, safely employed and that the current hunting season has brought
	you all the success you were always dreaming of! I really miss the
	HUNTING notes conference (as well as the FIREARMS do.), but perhaps
	I can get a chance to talk to you guys this way.

	When I was a member of HUNTING, I always wanted to "open" up the 
	conference to the world of hunting outside North America and the
	odd entry about Africa. Apart from the odd entry, HUNTING is naturally 
	pretty dominated by North Amertican entries. Nothing wrong with
	that! But maybe some of you would like to hear a bit about hunting
	in other parts of the World. I figured I could provide my $.02 -
	for what it is worth...

	I include a little story about hunting in Central Europe - perhaps
	Bob will enter this story for me in this or the next reply? There
	is nothing special about this hunting story, it pretty much represents
	typical Central European hunting. The mainstay here is the roe deer,
	a diminutive (40-50 lbs) relative of the American whitetail. The roe
	is mostly hunted in agricultural areas, preferably with forest cover
	in close proximity. Roe season in large parts of Europe starts around
	May (in the UK in April) and continues till late fall (some places till
	early winter). Main seasons are May and July-August where the rut
	takes place. Other animals hunted here are wild boar (mostly open 
	year round!), red deer (a smaller cousin of the North American Elk, 
	rutting in Late September/October) and various other species of deer, 
	sheep, ibex and chamois.

	Anyway, hope to have the opportunity to talk to you guys in the 
	future. You can reach me by mail on:

		 SKYWAY::PSI%TELEPAC.47921295::ESDCLU::HOHWY

	Cheers and best of luck to you all 


						- Mike Hohwy


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1307.1Hunting the Czech RepublicGLDOA::ROGERSI'm the NRAMon Oct 04 1993 15:36213

		A Hunting Excursion to Northern Bohemia, Czech Republic
		=======================================================

		    Copyright (C) 1993 by Michael Hohwy

	Please feel free to use this story for non-profit reproduction 
	provided you display the original copyright statement. All other
	rights reserved.

	Recently, I found myself in a position to go the Czech Republic for
	a long weekend of hunting. I had only recently returned from a
	prolonged hunting trip, and was a bit apprehensive about asking
	for time off from work. But, hard work carried the day, and I managed
	to meet my deadlines before the day set. A Friday afternoon in
	late September, myself and 3 friends left Zurich for the nightly 
	journey. It felt great to be on the road again.

	The first couple of days I hunted for roe buck without much success.
	It was the end of the season for roe and the bucks were not moving
	much after the rut. Finally on the third day I got my chance:

	We hunted a particular field one morning - where we had seen
	a decent roe-buck and accompanying does and fawns the day
	before. Or rather, a set of fields separated by hedges and
	little forests. I had positioned myself in a location where
	I hoped to spot the buck when he came out to eat, near where
	we had lost sight of him the day before. It was a nice morning,
	sunny, cold, quiet. At first I squinted through my binoculars 
	in the inadequate light, but after about an hour the sun was
	appearing over the horizon. As it goes in hunting, the buck was 
	not where he should have been. But we spotted him far out on the 
	open field. 3-400 yards is too far for a shot at a small deer like
	a roe, and there was nowhere I could hope to slip around him 
	without him or his companions spotting me. So,,, I decided to
	get down in the wet grass and use whatever cover it offered
	for an attempted aproach directly towards him. Slowly I crawled 
	through the wet grass, and every so often I could not resist the 
	temptation of glassing to see whether I was still undetected. I 
	managed to crawl to within 220 yards of him without being discovered 
	to a position where a prone shot would have been possible - only
	to find that a bunch of cows had chased the deer away!!! RATS!
	Wet to the skin I joined my companion in trying to locate
	the deer again behind the next hedge, then the next, then the next etc.
	We actually spotted a couple of does, but they spotted us as
	well and bounded off. In the end we more or less gave up and 
	made our way towards home, hoping to spot some 
	deer along the way. Even if we saw no deer it was a brilliant,
	sunny morning in the hills, the fields green and wet with dew.
	As I came back to the field I had originally watched, I decided
	to walk up a small crest to see if any deer were still in
	the field, as unlikely as that might sound at this late hour.
	Suddenly, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a deer, watching
	me frozenly. Huh? A deer? Binoculars up - by Joe, it was the buck
	I had stalked before, antlers not very high but fairly heavy. He was
	watching me and I him. I knew it would not be long before 
	he had had enough - I've made the mistake before of waiting too long
	in a situation like this. Any movement could send him into full
	flight, so changing position was out of the question. It had to
	be a standing, offhand shot at about 100 yds. Slowly the rifle 
	came up and I found him in the scope. POW! Down he went! Does and 
	fawns exploded away and I walked over towards where I last saw 
	him - the well-known feeling of emptiness in the stomach when you 
	can't see your quarry after the shot. I needn't have worried. He 
	was where he had stood. What should have been a shoulder shot had 
	turned into a neck shot, but it had anchored him good. Let me admit 
	right here, that a .300 Win Mag with a 180 grain Nosler Partition at 
	about 3000 fps *is* too much for roe deer weighing perhaps 40 lbs...
	But, then again, shots can be very long in those open fields, and
	we were also hunting muflon sheep, pigs and red deer so the .300
	had received the nod. He turned out to be a 10 year old buck, well
	past his prime - as indicated by his antlers which were heavy but 
	short. In his time, he must have been a very good buck to still
	have the configuration he did in this high age. Now, however, age and
	the recent rut had combined to take away every last ounce of
	fat from his body. His teeth almost gone, it is unlikely
	he could have lasted another winter. A good buck to take! Besides,
	incredible how luck had smiled on me allowing me to bump into
	him again after the disappointment of the wet belly crawl!
	Ah, hunting!

	That evening I was on a high seat (typical European permanent stand)
	watching a large field in another area. One of my hunting partners 
	had watched a magnificent muflon ram and his partner for no less than
	a full hour that morning. However, my partner had already taken two 
	nice rams on this trip so he offered me a chance at this bigger 
	specimen. I greatfully accepted the chalenge, sheep are a constant 
	fascination of mine! The muflon is the smallest wild sheep in the 
	World, closely related to the urials of Asia and - although smaller - 
	often sporting a horn configuration similar to the urials. I had not
	been in my stand more than 10 minutes before a band of sheep thundered
	up the hill below me and stopped just in front of me. They had been 
	spooked by another companion of mine on his way to his stand for
	the evening. The sole ram was not what I was looking for, however,
	and I let him and his accompanying ewes thunder on after a short 
	break. Pretty spectacular! Stand hunting is not my favourite, it
	is much too inactive for my taste. However, at times stand hunting
	is the most promising method and I endure it in the hope of success.
	This stand, however, never got the opportunity to get boring. Very
	soon I had roe deer all over the field below me - I counted up to
	13 deer in the field at one time - and there was a never ending
	amount of animal rustlings all around me. Pretty exiting! I managed
	to spot two muflon rams at about 5-600 yards, but even at that distance
	and in the falling light I was pretty sure they were not what I had
	come for. Central European hunting is often a late night affair - for
	species long since gone nocturnal due to the high human presence.
	Consequently the optics employed is of the appropriate type - with
	*huge* objective lenses. That night, the almost full moon rose
	early in a cloudless sky casting its silvery light over the landscape.
	It was a *beautiful* evening as the temperature dropped towards
	the freezing point and the moonlight cast its deep shadows behind
	every stone and bush. Eventually the time came when I had to get off 
	my stand to meet up with my companions for the drive home. I slowly
	walked through the silvery fields, glassing and listening. What a
	joy life can be!

	The next morning saw me in the same stand again by 4 AM. It was
	pitch dark, but I wanted to be in my stand well ahead of the dawn
	to minimize disturbance at this vital time. I'm sure that I heard
	a muflon stomp off on the way to the stand, so even at this early
	hour I ran the risk of scaring off the quarry I had come to look
	for. It was too dark to shoot, and I had brought my 10x40 binoculars
	in view of the daylight to come, so glassing was not possible either.
	I settled in to wait for dawn to approach. Soon the stand lived
	up to its reputation from the night before, animal sounds all over.
	I'm pretty sure I heard the hollow sound of a muflon running in 
	the field below me and a roe deer got upset and barked. Atleast
	I knew there were animals out there, even if I could not see them.
	Slowly the pre-dawn grey light let me see the valley below me and
	the hills beyond. As the light grew I could slowly start glassing
	as contours took form in the binoculars. Roe deer silhouetted against
	the grey sky were the first animals I saw, still too dark to tell
	bucks from does. One sight was electrifying, though, it was a
	silhouette where I could recognize the white patch muflon often
	carry on their backs. There were sheep in the field, but it was
	still far too early to tell what they were, let alone how their
	horns looked. I continued glassing the roe deer as the light grew.
	I'm pretty sure I had a good buck in the field that morning, but
	he kept in the shade of the forest even as the light grew in
	the sky. I never really managed to see exactly how big he was before
	he - in the fashion of big bucks - melted into the dark forest
	in the early dawn. Until now, I had only located what I thought was 
	one muflon. The ram I was hoping to hunt had last been seen in
	company with another good, younger ram. My friend who had seen the
	rams the morning before had described him to me: "The big one has 
	no muflon patch on his back, but his companion does. His horns are
	full curl, heavy with the tips swinging in close to his eyes". With
	the growing light I managed to spot a single muflon, but he seemed to
	wear a back patch, so I figured it probably was not the one. But, wait,
	behind him  yet another muflon with a much brighter back patch...
	Was it possible that my friend had described him as lacking a patch
	merely in comparison to his companion? Still too dark to see his
	horns, my entire concentration was now riveted to the darkest ram. 
	Gradually I could see that he was sporting a heavy set of horns, but 
	I could not see his full configuration. Time dragged by. He and
	his companion were grazing slowly down the slope in the first yellow 
	light of the morning. Suddenly he lifted his head and I saw his horns
	silhouetted against the light, I immediately recognized the full
	curl and the tips sweeping in close to his eyes. It was he! At this
	point in time I should have picked up my rifle and settled in to 
	shoot. But seeing those horns had been too much for me, and I
	suffered from a good old-fashioned attack of buck fever. My heart 
	was racing and my hands were trembling. Fortunately, I realized that 
	an attempted shot in this conditiuon was not going to do me any good.
	I tried to calm myself down with deep breathing and the help of a 
	piece of chewing gum I found in my pocket. As luck would have it, 
	the rams were undisturbed, so there was a good chance that my 
	(hopefully) temporary inability to act would not spoil my chance. I 
	kept breathing deeply, and gradually my heart settled down and I 
	started returning to normal. In between, I kept glassing the rams to 
	ensure I knew of their positions. I only got one good look at his 
	horns, but the smaller back patch gave the
	larger ram away - I hoped. I slowly put my rifle on my wool cap on
	the rail in front of me. If I leaned way back in the seat, I had a 
	decent shooting position, the forearm resting unsupported by my
	hand on my cap in front of me. I was ready. The muflon was feeding 
	away from me, only presenting me with a rear end shot, so the 
	wait continued. I figured he was about 220 yards away, a distance 
	almost exactly zero for my .300 Win. load. However, the downward
	angle could well cause the bullet to strike high, so a fairly low hold
	was called for. The ram turned and fed to my right, his head down.
	The cross hairs found his lower shoulder, and I was blinded by the 
	orange muzzle flame as the recoil rocked me. I think I saw him go 
	down where he stood, but the recoil had taken him out of my sight 
	just after the shot, and there was the temporarily blinding muzzle
	blast, so I was not sure. What I did see, was a mouflon at full
	run across the field down towards the patch of forest in the valley,
	next to the corn field, glowing golden in morning light. I jacked 
	another round in my chamber, and waited. Just before the muflon 
	reached the forest, he stopped, turned and pointed back in the 
	direction from which he came like a dog. I almost put my cross hairs
	on him, as he stood there, powerfully built, horns heavily sweeping
	out and down. But, then again, there was only one mouflon running, 
	he seemed to have a prominent back patch, and he seemed as uncertain 
	as I was where the his partner was. I decided I probably *had* seen 
	the big ram go down, and watched the other ram turn and disappear 
	into the forest. By now the field was void of any animals, but I 
	stayed on my stand for an agonizing extra 20 minutes. That would 
	allow my hoped for mouflon to stiffen up, or should he manage to 
	make a move, I would be ready for him. Nothing. Finally, I could not 
	stand the wait any longer, and got out of my stand and made my way 
	down where I thought I had seen him. He was exactly where he had 
	stood. A high shoulder shot had taken him down immediately, the 
	froth from his pierced lungs red around his muzzle. He was beautiful! 
	A heavy, full curl with good, broomed tips. We later measured him to 
	be easily of gold medal quality. In fact, although this hunting area 
	has very good mouflon, they had not taken a ram quite like him for 
	5 years. I knew how fortunate I had been to be offered a chance like 
	this after only 3 days in the area. Yet, that is hunting, luck is a 
	significant part of it. When the Gods smile at you, you have to grasp
	the chance offered and be grateful.

1307.2In Europe they are serious about testing...34838::ROGERShard on the wind againFri May 27 1994 11:39102
From Mike Hohwy, without permission (but I'm sure he would not object) :>)
    
    This might not be so bad if the intent was kept "PURE"  think of all
    the slob hunters it would eliminate.
    
    Good for discussion anyway..........
    
    
    
Yo Bob,

RE:
>    Congrats!  Something we all fear here in the US is the adoption of 
>    "hunting tests".   What do they test you on, local laws and that sort 
>    of stuff?  Woodscraft?  Ballistics?

    Ah, hunting over here is a different proposition than what it is
    in the US. The conditions are different (dense populations, small
    areas for game - though often with dense game populations), traditions
    are different (completely different clothing "codex" - *no* camo
    here :-) - lots of traditions that are observed - such as blowing of
    horns, putting the game on display after the hunt, special language
    etc etc). I love the freedom of hunting in North America, you don't 
    find that here to anywhere near the same extent. But, when that
    is said, there are also things to be said for the traditions and
    ways of hunting over here. I don't agree with all of them, but some
    I do appreciate. 

    A lot of the focus over here is on the "gentleman" hunter - in the
    German part of Europe (and in other parts) this understanding of
    "gentlemanship" is codified into a set of unwritten "laws" called
    "Waidgerechtigkeit" (which translates into something like "proper
    behaviour as hunter"). This deals with everything from ridiculous
    issues such as what clothes you should wear and what language you
    should choose, to very appropriate "rules" for how to treat the game
    e.g. only shoot when you are certain of instant kill, always always
    always track down wounded game, honouring the game after you have
    taken it etc. 

    Gunlaws and other laws over here being what they are, not only from
    the point of view of attempting to train people in the "gentleman-ship"
    expected, but also from a legal point of view, the rules for education
    for hunting (in some countries) are quite strict - make that extremely
    strict in comparison with the US. Countries like Germany, Switzerland,
    Austria and Northern Italy (South-Tyrol) have some of the strictest
    requirements for would-be hunters. In Germany we had to go through 
    between 150 and 200 hours of theoretical (and some practical) education,
    on top of that we had shooting lessons every Saturday from January
    till the end of April. The test itself was comprised of 3 parts:

	- shooting test (must be passed separately. For a decent 
			shooter not too much of a problem)
	- written test  (counts 60% together with the oral and practical
			test).
	- oral and practical test (counts 40% together with written test)

    We had four subject areas, each of which must be passed separately
    (with written and oral test counted together). Here are some of the
    subjetcs which we were subjected to examination in:

	- Wildlife biology (including all game animals, birds but also
			   some non-game species - mostly birds and
			   protected species - one of the biggest subjects)
	- Forestry and agriculture (plants, limitation of damage caused by 
				    game etc etc).
	- Hunting laws and regulations (including treatment of protected 
					species, animal protection, etc etc)
	- Arms		   (including safety, handling, technical construction,
			   ballistics, hand guns, cold weapons, optics etc)
	- Laws around guns (lots of those here :-( )
	- Hunting "tradition" (this is where the "gentleman-ship" comes in)
	- Treatment of game meat
	- Animal deceases  (in particular recognition of various ailments,
			    and the requirements for reporting certain 
			    epidemic deceases to the authorities)
	- Dogs		   (including training, species, how to keep the
			    dogs, deceases,the various tests gun dogs have
			    to go through over here to be legally recognized
			    as hunting dogs etc)
	- Ecology	   (increasingly important subject, as our limited
			   amount of space gets to more and more directed
			   towards mono-species crops and thus leaves no
			   proper habitat for animals - including game)
	

    I'm sure there were a few more, but I can't remember any more at the 
    moment. So, as you can see there was a fair amount of stuff included.
    It is pain in the neck to have to get through, but on the other hand,
    having been through it, you actually have a very good basic knowledge
    as an aspiring hunter about the things you should know. Some will
    obviously be forgotten, some areas will be expanded with experience.

    I'm not at all sure this would go down well in the US, but as I tried
    to indicate above, one should not try to compare hunting in the US
    to hunting here - although the basics are shared too many other things 
    differ. 

    Good luck on the SS .223 barrel. We are not under time pressure, so I'm 
    sure you'll find one - at your own time... :-)

	Cheers						- Mike
    
1307.3sounds like a university course on hunting5451::ROBERTSstay fit, eat well, die anywayFri May 27 1994 13:466
    
    Mike doesn't mention the cost of the 200 hours of training.  I'm sure
    it's not free.
    
    
    Gary