Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    I have a two year old son who every time I went hunting this year
    wanted to go. I doubt he knew what it was, just that daddy went so
    he wanted to go. He even has an orange baseball style hat that he
    calls his hunting hat. I told him he can't go until he's taller
    than the gun, in MVP one day he saw one of those junior squirrle 
    rifles and said "Daddy I bigger than that one", uh oh :-)
    
    You should show you wife the statistics about hunting accidents,
    statistically your daughter is in more danger crossing the road or
    even getting in a car than when she is in the woods.
    
    I haven't decided when to bring my son hunting yet, I seem to
    recall someone in here taking a 5 year old (?) daughter, it seemed
    to go real well.
    
    I may bring my son out walking in the fields next year for an hour or
    so, I doubt he could handle shooting the gun yet, he is afraid of loud
    noises.
    
    Just as a guide, I believe that the min age in MA to hunt on your own 
    license is 16, NH is 16 a and Maine is 10. I believe you can hunt
    in all these states prior to this, but under some sort of adult
    control, what "control" is depends on the state.
    
    Basically whenever you feel they are mature enough to be trusted, go 
    for it.
    
    --Bob
    

    Gary,
    
    My son is 3 and I took him scouting/squirrel hunting this year.  Of
    course he just came along and watched.  I think the age topic depends
    upon several different things: 
    
    *	Does the child mind when you tell him something.
    *	What type of hunting will you be doing
    *	Where will you be hunting
    *	Can you sneak him out without your wife finding out.
    
    The last is a joke of course, but I don't think the others are.  If my
    son wouldn't mind me while out, I wouldn't take him.  I also think the
    first several times out shouldn't be stressful on him or he might not
    want to go back.  Try and take him on a nice day, etc.  
    
    No-one in my family hunted when I was young and I really missed out on
    a lot.  I started hunting when I was 12 by myself, but I did go out
    several years with a friend of the family who taught me the basics.
    
    I will let my son carry his own gun when I think he is responsible
    enough, whether he is 8 or 18, it depends upon him.
    
    Wess

    I don't think that there is a set age persay.  I have read that a guide 
    might be "about halfway between the age that dad thinks he's ready and
    mom might be inclined to agree."  
    
    I don't think that I'd start them too seriously too early because small
    children don't have that long of an attention span.  You wouldn't want
    to push too hard and have them lose interest.   My son is 4 and
    for his birthday, his mom and I got him a Daisy youth model BB gun.
    I set up a little range in the yard and we plink away at photo copies
    of deer from library books, hand drawn targets, smallbore targets,
    newspaper photos of Bill Clinton and such.  I think that it teaches 
    good shooting skills and since its inexpensive and just plain fun it
    gives us a chance to have some time together.
    
    One thing that might help children to sight down the barrel correctly
    is a video camera.  Just video tape the correct sight picture pointing
    the camera lens down the barrel at a target and say; "Thats what you 
    want it to look like junior" while your watching the tape.
    
    Scott.                                         

>>    One thing that might help children to sight down the barrel correctly
>>    is a video camera.  Just video tape the correct sight picture pointing
>>    the camera lens down the barrel at a target and say; "Thats what you 
>>    want it to look like junior" while your watching the tape.
  
    
      Hey, that's a great idea!!  I had never thought of that, but it sure
    would make it a lot easier to show the proper technique.
    
      As far as what age to take them hunting, a lot depends on the indi-
    vidual child.  My son is 8 years old and wants to go hunting with me
    in the worst way.  I took him out bird hunting a couple times 2 years
    ago, and he had a great time, but his attention span was a little
    short, so I didn't think he was ready to go out deer hunting with me.
    This past year, I took him bow hunting with me twice, in the evening
    to an area I was real likely to see deer.  It worked out pretty good.
    We set up on the edge of a large field.  I would have normally been
    in a tree stand, but that was out since he was with me, so I set up a
    little ground blind for us..... sort of tucked behind some bushed, 
    with a large tree behind us, and the leaves all cleared away from where
    we were sitting.  It was about 4:30 when we got set up and i told him
    it would be about 1-1/2 hours before we could expect to see anything.
    I figured that this would be a good test or him.  I placed hmi so he 
    had an unrestricted view of the field, gave him a pair of binoculers,
    and said to keep scanning the field.  He spent a lot of time looking at
    the birds and squirrels, but at least he was being somewhat quite.
    Around 5:45 the bugs started coming out, and it was getting hard to 
    sit still.  I had given him a head net, but forgot all about gloves.
    He started getting real annoyed by the bugs and was swatting at them
    and stuff.  Then around 6:00 two deer moved into the field, around
    100yds from us.  This got his attention in a hurry.  Before long, there
    were 6 deer in the field, a small buck, 3 doe, and 2 small yearling
    fawns.  He was real excited and got to watch them for along time, but
    they never really got too close to us (never within 50 yds).  After a 
    while my son started moving around to swat the bugs and stuff (he was
    trying to be still, but the bugs were getting the best of him), and
    the deer kept glancing our way. I knew they were getting real nervous,
    but there was nothing I could do.  Eventually, they got nervous enough
    that they left the field.  
    
      The next time out (to the same place) we saw 2 more deer, but they
    came in later and it was getting too dark to see.  BY the time we left
    the field to head back for the car, it was real dark.  I had a flash-
    light, but it still made him a bit nervous.  We had to walk up some
    railroad tracks, and even cross a small train bridge (20yds across, 
    around 20yds up) to get to and from the field.  I had to carry him
    across the bridge, of course, but he was a little scared.  On the way
    out of the woods, I found out that he is real scared of trains (some-
    thing he watched on "Rescue 911" had made a bad impression on him, I
    later found out).  One came along as we were getting close to the
    tracks.  We stood a ways from the tracks and watched the train pass,
    but he didn't like it at all (at least I never have to worry about him
    playing on the tracks).  
    
      All in all, it was a good hunting experience for him.  Maybe this
    year I'll get him out rifle hunting with me, but it will be a while be-
    fore he is ready to spend the whole day in the woods, and probably at
    least 4 years before I'll let him carry a gun. In the mean time, I will
    continue to stress safety and proper hunting methods, to get him a real
    good introduction to hunting.  I got him a BB gun this past summer,
    and even got him one of those youth compound bows, so he practices
    every chance he gets.  
    
      In a few more years, I'll have another good hunting companion.  Then 
    there will be 3 generations hunting together (my Dad is my hunting partner
    right now)....  I can hardly wait!
    
    -Ron-

      As an addition to my last note, I have also taken my daughter
    hunting.  Two years ago (when she was 10) I took her deer hunting
    for a 1/2 day (with rifle).  SHe had a good time and saw deer, but
    the walking was a bit much for her, and she got a little cold.  
    She doesn't ask to go much anymore in the winter, but she does go
    bow hunting with me occasionally.  She's now 12 (almost), and I 
    don't think she's going to develope into a hunter (not that much
    interest), but that will certainly be totally her choice.  If she
    wants to, great... if not, no problem.
    
      Regarding hunting licenses, the Vermont Fish and Game book only 
    says:
    
     "A person under 16 years of age must have written permission given
      by his or her parent or gaurdian and signed in the presence of the
      issuing agent in order to obtain a hunting license."
    
      Of course they also need to show proof of passing a hunter or
    firearm saftey course.

    As we all know, knowledge of the game you are hunting, and hunting
    skills are very important.  I think that if a child wants to go hunting
    with daddy or mommy, let them go.  Of course, no gun yet.
    
    The guy that runs the 3100 acre hunting parcel that I am joining next
    year, takes his son with him.  I don't know how old he is, but he
    doesn't take a gun.  He is very knowledgeable of all aspects of
    hunting.  He even knows the whereabouts of the internal organs of a
    deer.  He has experienced harvests.  The deer are already shaking in
    their hooves when he gets a rifle in his hand.
    
    In summary, I don't really think that there is a particular age.  There
    has to be a sign of interest, and of course the big word, PATIENCE.  A
    child that will be fidgety in the stand is no good, unless you still
    hunt.  If there is an interest, it's time.  A couple of years in the
    woods, then a hunter safety course, then it's time to buy tags.
    
    But watch out.  When you are sitting by the campfire trying to warm up,
    one day your child might say, "Hey dad, give me the keys to the truck,
    I got to take my deer to the processer.
    
    Bob
    

    My Dad first took me hunting when I was 10 years old. To me it was
    about the perfect age. I took my stepson out with me this year and he
    is only six. Kids at that age seem to have a real short attention span
    and are real fidgety. I think I may take him out once a year until I
    see that he is changing (not so fidgety and more attentive). Of course
    all he brought was his toy gun with him. When my Dad took me the first 
    year all he let me hunt with was an old single shot .22. Squirrels,
    Grouse and Rabbits were all I was allowed to get when we went deer
    hunting, of course it kind of ruined his deer hunting time but I am
    sure he enjoyed it. I got a kick out of how Zach couldn't sit still.
    The more candy I gave him the worse it got, how suger affects kids is
    beyond me.
    							Bret

    I took my 6 year old daughter with me pheasant hunting last year and it
    couldn't have worked out better.  I think the key is to orchestrate it 
    carefully to make sure the kid has fun.  I wouldn't expect most young
    kids to sit still for very long waiting for a deer, so I'd try small
    game first.  I would avoid anything but the best of weather; keep the
    initial hunts short - Remember- you want to end the trip with the kid
    wanting more!  I would also plan a diversion - for my kids a snack of
    somekind is very entertaining for them outdoors.
    
    I learned this from watching a fishing partner of mine and his son.  He
    did the opposite of what I suggested - he dragged his boy off salmon
    fishing - ALL day long in rain/snow/winds, cramped boat and few fish.
    The boy is almost grown now, and his dad fishes alone......
    Mark,
    

>>    I took my 6 year old daughter with me pheasant hunting last year and it
>>    couldn't have worked out better.  I think the key is to orchestrate it 
>>    carefully to make sure the kid has fun.  I wouldn't expect most young
>>    kids to sit still for very long waiting for a deer, so I'd try small
>>    game first.  I would avoid anything but the best of weather; keep the
>>    initial hunts short - Remember- you want to end the trip with the kid
>>    wanting more!  I would also plan a diversion - for my kids a snack of
>>    somekind is very entertaining for them outdoors.
    
  There has been some terrific advice from all of you.  Thanks.  I think the 
timing does depend a lot upon the child and what type of hunting you are going 
to do.  I would think that small game would be an ideal starter in that you 
don't have to sit still for any length of time.  I also think you need to con-
sider the terrain you will be hunting.  As an example; I grew up in Mich. in 
farm country outside of Flint.  The land is fairly flat (compared to Mass).  
There were many hay fields, fence rows, stubble fields, and corn fields to 
hunt.  The walking was easy for the most part.  Here in Mass. I went pheasant 
hunting for the first time two years ago with a friend who said he had pheasants
all over his place.  What we ended up hunting was a mountain side full of laurel
, sucker brush, and every other kind of brush desiged to make hunting hard,(we 
didn't see anything either except a couple of partridge).  I would never take 
my son or daughter to a place like that just because of terrain, I think it 
would destroy their desire to hunt.  I also agree with the advice of taking 
them along with no gun just to learn, hopefully you see game.

My father and my uncles always headed to Northern Mich in November.  All my
cousins and I were allowed to go into the woods with the adults but we didn't
carry guns.  I always saw deer and it just pumped me up, I couldn't wait until
I could actually carry a gun and really hunt, which was at age 12 or 14, I can't
remember. (a looong time ago).

  Another question I have for those who have taken children into the woods, have
you tried to educate/teach the kids to recognize various trees, plants, and
other wildlife?  I mention this because my father was a boyscout leader and he
used to take the whole family camping every year.  He really knew his stuff;
knew the trees by their leafs, how to find dry wood in a rainstorm, what wild
berrys you could and could not eat.  Unfortunately he didn't pass on all that 
knowledge to his two boys; my brother is older and was kind of a hardhead and 
wasn't a real easy kid to teach and consequently my dad didn't spend a lot of
time with me.  I always enjoyed going into the woods with my dad even if we 
didn't see any deer, because we always saw some wildlife.  I hope to be able to
do the same with the two I have left at home.  I was just wondering, has anyone
been doing this with your kids?  What kind of response did you get?

Gary    

    Gary,
    
    I took my 3 year old out fishing on Saturday and did exactly that.  The
    water was muddy from all of the rain that we have had and the fish
    weren't co-operating very well.  I ended up walking him around the pond
    pointing out different tracks that had been made.  We also jumped a few
    ducks that he thought was pretty neat.  I'm not the authority on all of
    the plantlife, etc, but when I take him out I always try to keep it
    interesting.  He talked about it all day yesterday, it really is neat
    to have someone excited about they things that I enjoy too.
    
    Wess