Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    I've hunted quite a bit horseback, both elk and deer.  From this I have
    a few observations.
    
    1)  The younger you are the easier it is on your body.  I spent 6 days
    hunting horseback around Livingston Mo. when I was in my mid-40's. It
    hurt.
    By day three there were only three of us left who would get on a horse.
    
    2)  Horses can get you places a lot faster and therefor widen your
    hunting area.  
    
    3)  You can't shoot off a horse, so if you see anything it takes a
    while to get cleared for action.  We used to put a halter under the
    bridle with a long lead rope from it to the horn.  When we saw anything
    we would swing down with the gun in one hand the rope in the other and
    get as far away from that horse as the rope would allow.  Even then you
    would never know what the damn thing would do.  I've had them scream,
    jump, go bucking off through some pole patch and almost kill
    themselves, but I've never had one just stand still and let you start
    shooting.  So, be prepared.
    
    4)  It's true what you say about wranglers, but remember; they get paid
    to ride horses, they like to ride horses and they like to make you fell
    somewhat inadequate because you don't.
    
    In conclusion, from many years of experience, horses are good to get
    you in, good to get you where you want to hunt from camp and good to
    pack them out.  And, it's nice to have wranglers around to take care of
    them.
    
    
    Ken

    So Jon, what did it cost ya for the camp?  Did you look at doing
    a drop camp?  What area did ya go into?  How crowded was it?
    
    Answer up!
    
    The Pirate 
    

Arghhh, Aye matey, I can tell ye all about it. . .

We were in national forest land in area 13 south of Hayden.  We packed in on 
the horses about 6 or 7 miles to an area that bordered on BLM and private
land.

The guys who took us in were NOT professional outfitters!  We paid $300 per
hunter which is not too bad, but we provided all out own camping equipment.

The only problem we really had was that the horses were for the most part well
behaved, but we had a couple of little incidents.  The funniest of which was 
when one of the horses decided that she didn't like the load, and laid down
and rolled over on top of it!!  This is especially hard on bread and eggs.
I think I could have one some $$$ on that TV show if I only had a video camera
handy.  The owner of the horses said he's never buying another mare!

Overall, it was fun, but I think in the future I might try to save up some more
money and pay a real outfitter.  I've heard some pretty bad stories about them,
too, though. 

    re .1
    
    "3)  You can't shoot off a horse,"
    
    This isn't entirely true. My uncle has been hunting from horseback for
    many years, his own horses though, and the only time he dismounts is to
    take a break, when he gets back to camp or when he gets a kill. He 
    shoots from the saddle. But he also starts training his horses when he
    breaks them. I've been with him when he would pull his 44 from the
    holster and fire right between the horses ears and the horse would just
    flinch when he fired. He usually starts them with small caliber stuff
    and works up to the big boomers. So depending on who trained the horses
    it is possible to hunt from their back. I don't think I'd try it with 
    the horses used on these guided trips, though.
    
    /cowboy\ - just a rebel-rouser.

    re -1
    
    If a guy like your uncle has a horse that will hold, I agree, but it's
    unusual.
    
    When I was 16 I went deer hunting with a buddy of mine and his dad on
    thier horses.  He lectured us about shooting off the horses.  We were
    riding along this ridge when a bunch oif deer broke from the head of
    the draw to our right and crossed the ridge in front of us.  A big buck
    was in the bunch.  We started unloading to get ready for action when
    his dad started firing from the horse.  As we watched, the horse threw
    his head on the secxond shot and the bullet went right through the back
    of its head.  Needless to say the horse and his dad went down in a
    pile.  After a long silence he got off the horse took the bridle and
    saddle and headed for the ranch - about 5 miles.  These horses were not
    plugs, but were valuable stock animals that were used to work the
    ranch, so it was a significant loss.  Anyway, to this day I've never
    mentioned it to the old man, he's 82 now, and I've never shot off a
    horse.
    
    Ken

    That was a moment of poor judgement without a doubt.  But common sense
    means you don't shoot past the horse's head.  Can you imagine standing
    in front of the muzzle of any discharged firearm?  I don't care how
    well that horse was trained, the pain of the pressure wave againts some
    very acute hearing must have been tremendous.
    
    You train horses just like dogs.  Two people to start, one distant
    (50yds) with small caliber (.22short) and gradually work it up over
    time (4-6months).  A hunting breed (Brittany) will come to associate
    the shot with downed game.  A horse will usually just ignore the
    report.
    
    Part of the training is getting the horse to respond to legs alone as
    you drop the reins on the neck to take up rifle.  Twist the hips to
    turn, light pressure to move forward, drop the seat to stop.  It works
    fine when you spend the time.
    
    /bob

The guy who owned the horses we rode in on has a big 14-year-old gelding named
Cochise.  He (the guy, not the horse) claimed that he fired his rifle off the
horse all the time, and in fact used the horse a lot like a tracking dog.  The
horse could usually sense when elk were around!!

I have no reason to doubt him, cause that particular horse seem really smart
even to a novice like me.  But I would never try shooting from the rest of 
his horses. . . they were really skittish.

Bottom line to me is, even with a well-trained horse, it would take extreme
circumstances to make me try a shot from a horse (good horse, and an deer/elk
I just couldn't pass up).  Besides, horseback isn't exactly the most stable
shooting platform I could think of!

HERE'S ANOTHER POINT OF DISCUSSION:  I once heard a story about a guy who had
a horse shot out from under him by another "hunter" (using the term loosely; 
maybe I should say, "brainlocked gun-toter").  I think the horse had orange
bridle and saddle markers, too.  Do you think a horse adds to the danger of
being around bad hunters?

    There was a story going around here a couple of years ago about a guy
    who rode his horse out to the end of a ridge, got off, tied the horse
    to a tree and headed down around this rim rock.  He must of got turned
    around cause he walked a complete circle, came on his own horse and
    shot it for a cow elk.  
    
    When I lived in the eastern part of the state, we used to call those
    type of people, "Dumb Portland hunters."  Now I live over on the
    western side and I'm more lenient.
    
    

Does anybody remember the movie "Jeremiah Johnson"?  There was a scene
in which he used his horse as a "moving blind" to stalk within range
of a bull elk (it was a big one, too).  He just walked by the side of
his horse (on the side away from the elk, of course) until he
got in range.  Then, he used the horse as a rest, as he laid the
barrel of his Hawken of the saddle.  It worked, too, although the
horse bucked at the shot and knocked him down.

I've always wondered just how "Hollywood" that scene was.  One, can
you really use a horse like that to approach an elk?  Is it one of
those things you could get away with 130 years ago but not now (i.e.
it's been tried too much)?  Two, how did he manage to keep his horse
from running off?  And three, did he really shoot that elk?  I swear,
the elk dropped in a very realistic fashion.

Jerry

P.S.  OK fellow, it's your deer.  Just let me get my saddle.

>I've always wondered just how "Hollywood" that scene was.  One, can
>you really use a horse like that to approach an elk? 

 Yep. They use silhouettes of four legged creatures to approach pronghorns,
too.

>>            <<< Note 1236.10 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "Destiny Beckons" >>>

>>>I've always wondered just how "Hollywood" that scene was.  One, can
>>>you really use a horse like that to approach an elk? 

After I posted this question, I realized that there is another reason
why someone probably wouldn't do this today.  Back then, all you
had was black powder rifles with round balls as ammo.  You probably 
would need to get at least within 150 yards of an elk (or closer)
before taking a shot.  With today's rifles, you don't need to be
that close, so stalking with close range isn't nearly as important.
That and the fact that not a lot of hunters are on close, personal
terms with their horse.

Jerry

    I heard a great story at the campfire this season. . .
    
    A good friend of dad used to hunt geese by using a cutout of a dairy
    cow to sneak close to the flock.  Dad said that this fellow was really
    successful, though I'm not sure this would be legal anymore.
    
    I wonder how really different Hollywood exaggerations are from the
    stories we tell around the campfire.
    
    Good hunting in the New Year,
    
    	Jon

A buddy of mine was out hunting on a horse on an Indian Reservation up in 
Canada. Came across a black bear, pulled out the old 30/30 took a shot, and 
next thing he knew he was sitting on the ground sans rifle starring at a 
cahrging bear. Luckily the bear was just as scarred as he was and barreled 
past him into the bush. The horse was of course long gone, so he had a nice 
long walk back to the camp. The Indian that lent him the horse, told him that 
he used him for hunting all of the time.

I guess I would want to test the nag whether it is gun shy or not before the 
heat of the action.

Les